If that is the case then it is an award for QBs only.

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If that is the case then it is an award for QBs only.

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While I would not be that absolute, I think it's true for most teams that if they have a good QB and lose him, it pretty much craters your season....

Put Romo on the Texans and is he more valuable than Watt? I think Watt is a better football player, but I think the QB position is more vital than one DL.

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If that is the case then it is an award for QBs only.

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While I would not be that absolute, I think it's true for most teams that if they have a good QB and lose him, it pretty much craters your season....

Put Romo on the Texans and is he more valuable than Watt? I think Watt is a better football player, but I think the QB position is more vital than one DL.

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Texans as constructed win 8-9 games. Texans without Watt and Romo in place win 11 easily in my mind, maybe more.

There's no doubt a very good QB has more direct impact on wins and losses than a very good DL does.

I think that's why you see mvp awards go to QBs so much.

If Cowboys reach the Super Bowl, regardless of outcome, Romo is in the HOF.

If Chargers make the super bowl, is Phillip Rivers a hall of famer?

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If Chargers make the super bowl, is Phillip Rivers a hall of famer?

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I say maybe.

We can all agree that there is very distinct big 3 of Brees, Manning, & Brady plus Rodgers who is well on his way to joining this club. They're not only in the HOF, but upper tier of HOF.

After those 3 (or 4) you look at the next tier and to me that's Big Ben, Eli, Romo, Rivers, & Cutler. I almost want to include Flacco, Ryan, & Stafford, but they're a little young for this group.

Of those five in my tier 2, you give Eli & Big Ben the edge for the rings. Ben > Eli. Then I rank tier 2 Rivers, Romo, & Cutler. Somewhere in tier 2 is where I feel like the line should be drawn. It just gets tricky if you draw it. Maybe after the QBs with rings? Maybe After Rivers? Maybe Romo is ahead of Rivers?

That's exactjy why I think "just getting to a super bowl" isn't going to be enough to get Romo in HoF

Eli won two super bowls and at this point isn't a lock to get in. Saying romo is a lock if he gets to one..... Absurd

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Eli won two super bowls and at this point isn't a lock to get in. Saying romo is a lock if he gets to one..... Absurd

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I'll bite

Name 2 Super Bowl winning QBs who aren't in the HOF, then.

Jim Plunkett

I just went back and historically looked at the QBs that have been inducted and what years they were in the league to get an idea of how many HOF QBs typically are playing at any given time. I thought we were overstating things from a historical perspective as to how deep that HOF tier actually goes. I was surprised to see that there is about 7-8 HOF QBs in the league at the same time. That obviously includes guys at all stages of their careers. It also was interesting that there seems to usually be a dip at the beginning of each decade in the number of active HOF QBs. Strange thing, and probably just an anomaly.

In 1970 & 1971 there were 10 HOF QBs in the league:

Griese, Bradshaw, Dawson, Tarkenton, Staubach, Namath, Jurgensen, Blanda, Unitas & Starr.

Using a 7-8 active QBs in the league at the current time, you could maybe project:

Manning
Brady
Brees
Roethlisberger
Eli/Romo?
Rodgers
Wilson
Luck

What has Romo done that warranted a mention, but not Rivers?

If that's aimed at me, Rivers could be in that slot as well. I think I was implying that there's someone else out there that gets in.

Based on history, it's highly unlikely that more than 5 on that list get in

Why do you say that? Historically there are more than 5 HOF QBs in the league almost every season.

Just so I can round out my spreadsheet, what retired QBs aren't in the HOF yet. Favre? Warner? Anyone else?

Because your premise assumes that only QBs are getting in. There are way too many deserving players at other positions that are certain hall of famers or worthy of discussion to have room for QBs that didn't win super bowls or break records.


What makes Romo or Rivers any more worthy than a Bledsoe, Esiason, or McNabb?

Romo is proving to be an adept game manager. Last few years when he tried too hard, he threw the silly throws. Now, with a HOF reciever and the leading rusher and a great offensive line, he manages to win games that he used to lose.

He is Alex Smith on a better team.

thats silly.

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Because your premise assumes that only QBs are getting in. There are way too many deserving players at other positions that are certain hall of famers or worthy of discussion to have room for QBs that didn't win super bowls or break records.


What makes Romo or Rivers any more worthy than a Bledsoe, Esiason, or McNabb?

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I'm assuming that the voters are going to continue the trend of the last 30 years of selections. Therefore bestowing the honor on QBs at a higher rate than OLs or DBs or any other position.

If anything, with the changes in the way NFL football is played, I wonder if QBs end up an extra slot or two from the ranks of RBs as the running game has been de-emphasized in the NFL.

modern era by position in Hall of Fame

QB: 23
WR: 23
HB/FB: 29
OL: 40
DL: 35


I think the with to more passing hurts QBs more than helps. They are seen as products of the new rules, etc.

I like Romo. But the more I think about it, I don't see any way he gets in (or even gets much discussion) without winning a Super Bowl

I wonder how it defines the modern era? I only counted 18 going back through Blanda, Unitas and Starr (the three oldest ones on my analysis).

a couple more thoughts...

the Rivers vs. Romo discussion/comparison is very interesting. IMO Rivers has Romo blocked from the Hall of Fame. In another words as of right now, Romo is not getting in until Rivers is in. Why?

because Rivers has 2 head-to-head playoff wins vs. the Colts when Peyton was in his prime. They were both upset victories. In 2007 SD beat the 13-3 Colts in Indy. In 2008 SD beat the 12-4 Colts in San Diego

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Romo is proving to be an adept game manager. Last few years when he tried too hard, he threw the silly throws. Now, with a HOF reciever and the leading rusher and a great offensive line, he manages to win games that he used to lose.

He is Alex Smith on a better team.

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This is absurd.

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modern era by position in Hall of Fame

QB: 23
WR: 23
HB/FB: 29
OL: 40
DL: 35


I think the with to more passing hurts QBs more than helps. They are seen as products of the new rules, etc.

I like Romo. But the more I think about it, I don't see any way he gets in (or even gets much discussion) without winning a Super Bowl

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Agree.

this makes me shake my head:

"In 1970 & 1971 there were 10 HOF QBs in the league: Griese, Bradshaw, Dawson, Tarkenton, Staubach, Namath, Jurgensen, Blanda, Unitas & Starr."

there was another QB sitting on the bench in Oakland behind Blanda who should be the 11th QB in the Hall of Fame from the decade of the 70's: Kenny Stabler.

1974 NFL MVP
1976 Super Bowl champion
4-time all-pro
7 playoff wins -- including the Sea of Hands and Ghost to the Post

if Kurt Warner is getting into the HoF for having 6 great seasons including a Super Bowl title (and getting a free pass for his 5 bad years); then the Snake should be in for his 7 great years in Oakland (1973-1979) and likewise get a pass for the last 4 years of his career with the Oilers & Saints (when he should have retired)

QB stats are so outrageous these days that QB HOF votes mostly come down to what level of success did you lead your team to. Romo needs at least one Lombardi and probably multiple because Dallas simply wasn't dominant enough during a big chunk of his career. He at least needs one and to pile on some other playoff wins.

The surge at Arizona is what will make Warner IMO. On the Rams alone, hell no. But taking a second dog**** franchise to at least a SB appearance will be huge for him.

Nobody is a bigger Romo supporter than me, and I think he is a top 3 QB right now and worthy of HOF consideration. But the bottom line is he has to have a ring or it will never happen.

Kurt Warners best 6 years include an MVP, SB MVP, Multiple All Pros, Pro Bowls, etc. then you look at his postseason record and he elevates his game. He should get loads of credit for leading the Cards to a Super Bowl. Just look at his 3 big seasons in St Louis and compare him to everyone else at the time. He dominates.

In my opinion QBs closer to hall of fame than Romo that are currently active:


Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers
Ben Roethlisberger
Russell Wilson
Eli Manning
Joe Flacco
That is 25% of the NFL above

And, look at the young guys:
Andrew Luck is blowing away Romo's numbers (again because of NFL rule changes),
Nick Foles - if he wasn't hurt, chances are Dallas doesn't even make the playoffs.

Dallas got really lucky this year. The Giants were terrible. The Redskins were terrible. And the Eagles lost their starting QB.

Why is a perennial 8-8 player even being considered?

Two more stats:

For the previous 3 seasons, all Tony Romo had to do was win the final game of the season and his team would have won the division. How many times did he rise to the occasion and play a brilliant game? Zero. Zero of 3. In fact, if I remember correctly, a couple of games he played poorly. With the season on the line. One he was injured and didn't play.

Also, prior to this season - he has had a good season - how many teams feared Tony Romo? Russel Wilson, I fear. Tom Brady, I fear. Romo, I don't think so.

That's not hall of fame worthy at all. In fact, it's not really Ring of Honor worthy either. If he gets into the Ring, then it is because he is Jerry's boy and longevity.

Can you compare Romo to Meredith, Staubach and Aikman? After nine seasons, he may get his second playoff victory.

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Two more stats:

For the previous 3 seasons, all Tony Romo had to do was win the final game of the season and his team would have won the division. How many times did he rise to the occasion and play a brilliant game? Zero. Zero of 3. In fact, if I remember correctly, a couple of games he played poorly. With the season on the line. One he was injured and didn't play.

Also, prior to this season - he has had a good season - how many teams feared Tony Romo? Russel Wilson, I fear. Tom Brady, I fear. Romo, I don't think so.

That's not hall of fame worthy at all. In fact, it's not really Ring of Honor worthy either. If he gets into the Ring, then it is because he is Jerry's boy and longevity.

Can you compare Romo to Meredith, Staubach and Aikman? After nine seasons, he may get his second playoff victory.

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The teams would not have even have been in a position to get in the playoffs if it wasn't for him. The Cowboys had the worst defense in the history of the NFL last year, and he still won them 8 games.

EDIT: You have no idea what you are talking about if you think Romo isn't Ring of Honor worthy.

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Dallas got really lucky this year. The Giants were terrible. The Redskins were terrible. And the Eagles lost their starting QB.

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You are either a troll or just don't know anything about the Cowboys this season. How about that win in Seattle? How about being undefeated on the road? How about Romo having the highest passer rating, completion percentage, and yards/attempt in the NFL right now? How about the Cowboys having the best offensive line and the NFL leading rusher. How about Dez leading all WRs in TDs?

But sure dude, they got lucky.

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In my opinion QBs closer to hall of fame than Romo that are currently active:


Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers
Ben Roethlisberger
Russell Wilson
Eli Manning
Joe Flacco
That is 25% of the NFL above

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I'm pretty sure most people have agreed that Romo has to win a super bowl to be in the conversation for HOF. All of those guys have a ring, so no **** sherlock.