Not to belabor the point, but had he allowed them to move to higher ground earlier, instead of securing the equipment… he would not have been foolishly driving in feet of water.

I would also argue that you're playing a little fast and loose with the word "rescue". They were still in their cabins because he told them to stay. One isn't the savior when one causes the crisis.

No matter how you say it, or what your defense of him might be… 27 girls lost their lives because he tended to lawn stuff before relocating the actual campers. There's really no way around that.

B-1 83 said:

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Marvin_Zindler said:

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redcrayon said:

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Those were hard to read.

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Agreed.

I assumed that Arnold & Itkin would pick up some of the plaintiffs. I am stunned that Yetter Coleman is plaintiffs' counsel in one of the cases. They they are known for complex commercial and appellate work....contingency fee PI/death cases. In any event, all of the lawyers who have filed so far are top notch litigators.

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Must be a lot of money to be made.

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Are the owners of Mystic multi millionaires? How much can they actually get after the lawyers get their cut?

TAMU1990 said:

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B-1 83 said:

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Marvin_Zindler said:

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redcrayon said:

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Those were hard to read.

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Agreed.

I assumed that Arnold & Itkin would pick up some of the plaintiffs. I am stunned that Yetter Coleman is plaintiffs' counsel in one of the cases. They they are known for complex commercial and appellate work....contingency fee PI/death cases. In any event, all of the lawyers who have filed so far are top notch litigators.

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Must be a lot of money to be made.

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Are the owners of Mystic multi millionaires? How much can they actually get after the lawyers get their cut?

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I was referring to the lawyers making money.

Anti-taxxer said:

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Not to belabor the point, but had he allowed them to move to higher ground earlier, instead of securing the equipment… he would not have been foolishly driving in feet of water.

I would also argue that you're playing a little fast and loose with the word "rescue". They were still in their cabins because he told them to stay. One isn't the savior when one causes the crisis.

No matter how you say it, or what your defense of him might be… 27 girls lost their lives because he tended to lawn stuff before relocating the actual campers. There's really no way around that.

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This just feels a little disingenuous to me. One man did not cause this crisis. Nature caused this crisis. Dick and Mystic could have responded to the crisis poorly, but causing it is a reach to me. I know that when these types of situations happen, someone has to be to blame though.
I just don't know what type of response you can actually have in place to prepare for the worst flood the area has seen in many years. It reminds me a little bit of the tsunami in Japan that took out the ***ushima nuclear plant a while back. The facility, which was inland, raised all their equipment off the ground 4', if I recall correctly, in preparation and responses to a possible flood/taunami scenario. They never had an issue with flood waters until their final day, the day of the tsunami, when flood waters rose above 4' and took out the plant. You can prepare and practice all you want, but if the event you experience is so powerful and so quick, there is not much you can really do. Nature is beautiful, powerful, but unforgiving.
Either way, a horrific awful tragedy occurred made worse due to the victims being such sweet innocent children. I really hope everyone involved finds peace.

Quote:

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This just feels a little disingenuous to me. One man did not cause this crisis. Nature caused this crisis. Dick and Mystic could have responded to the crisis poorly, but causing it is a reach to me. I know that when these types of situations happen, someone has to be to blame though.

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Again, no one is arguing that he caused the crisis.

What everyone points out is Dick Eastland and Camp Mystic definitely did not have a well crafted plan that could have addressed 99.9% of potential scenarios and the 0.01% of bad luck caused the deaths. Most anyone that has looked into it in detail has found the emergency response plan that was in place to be crude and dependent on young kids and likely to have contributed to the deaths of the kids by ordering them to stay in place.

The Presbyterian Mo Ranch close by and in a very similar setup had evacuated all 70 campers hours prior and everyone was safe and dry when the water hit.

Good article on the subject.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/investigations/camp-mystic-emergency-plan/285-d0fa22df-f871-4572-83a2-afa60bec53dd

Quote:

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KERR COUNTY, Texas The emergency plan at Camp Mystic, where 27 girls died during the July Texas Hill Country floods, was a single page and did not address the evacuation of campers, according to a copy KHOU 11 Investigates obtained.

"In case of flood, all campers on Senior Hill must stay in their cabins," the document states. "Those on the flats must also stay in their cabins unless told otherwise by the office."

The emergency instructions also state "all cabins are constructed on high, safe locations."

"Our daughters deserved better, and future campers deserve better," testified Caitlin Bonner at an Aug. 20 hearing. Caitlin and her husband, Blake, lost their 9-year-old daughter, Lila, at Camp Mystic.
"Our daughters paid an ultimate price for their obedience to a plan that was destined to fail," Blake Bonner said.

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There was a nearby camp that had a 30 page plan that was crafted specifically in light of fairly recent historical events where campers due to similar flood events.

And that is the entire point. The Camp had politicked and lobbied to reverse FEMA findings that their buildings were in danger of floods. The camp did not have any plan in place to deal with the floods that are actually much more frequent than its defenders want to admit. The plan in place actually contributed to the peril of the campers by ordering them to stay in the path of water.

I just don't understand why so many people want to declare this best practice and write this all off as some sort of unpredictable event. It definitely was not.

BlackGold said:

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Anti-taxxer said:

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Not to belabor the point, but had he allowed them to move to higher ground earlier, instead of securing the equipment… he would not have been foolishly driving in feet of water.

I would also argue that you're playing a little fast and loose with the word "rescue". They were still in their cabins because he told them to stay. One isn't the savior when one causes the crisis.

No matter how you say it, or what your defense of him might be… 27 girls lost their lives because he tended to lawn stuff before relocating the actual campers. There's really no way around that.

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This just feels a little disingenuous to me. One man did not cause this crisis. Nature caused this crisis. Dick and Mystic could have responded to the crisis poorly, but causing it is a reach to me. I know that when these types of situations happen, someone has to be to blame though.
I just don't know what type of response you can actually have in place to prepare for the worst flood the area has seen in many years. It reminds me a little bit of the tsunami in Japan that took out the ***ushima nuclear plant a while back. The facility, which was inland, raised all their equipment off the ground 4', if I recall correctly, in preparation and responses to a possible flood/taunami scenario. They never had an issue with flood waters until their final day, the day of the tsunami, when flood waters rose above 4' and took out the plant. You can prepare and practice all you want, but if the event you experience is so powerful and so quick, there is not much you can really do. Nature is beautiful, powerful, but unforgiving.
Either way, a horrific awful tragedy occurred made worse due to the victims being such sweet innocent children. I really hope everyone involved finds peace.

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He could have done literally anything other than what he did:

He could have started evacuating the cabins when he first received the alert at 1:15 am.

They could have provided the counselors with communication devices.

He could have had a plan in place other than "call Dick", as the written plan required, which turns out to be not a great idea, because he had no ****ing plan.

No one said he caused the flood, but in my opinion, fwiw, those girls would be alive today if he had immediately stated moving them when he got the alert.

Instead, he hemmed and hawed around and secured the lawn equipment.

To not acknowledge that is absurd.

P.H. Dexippus said:

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redcrayon said:

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P.H. Dexippus said:

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redcrayon said:

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P.H. Dexippus said:

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Mollie03 said:

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Another lawsuit filed, by the Pohl family with more heartbreaking details that the older sister walked by the younger sister's cabin and asked if she could carry her little sister on her back.

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That is a tragic detail in hindsight for sure. But another A&I suit, another insinuation that Dick Eastland knew the girls (and himself) were going to be swept away but valued saving lawn equipment instead. Gross straw man.

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It's not that he knew, it's that he didn't plan for it.

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That's not the allegation of A&I. They claim Dick Eastland valued machinery over the lives of those children and his own. It's disgusting.

Quote:

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The suit filed on behalf of Matthew and Kristin Pohl alleges operators of Camp Mystic ignored flood alerts that were issued as early as July 2 before torrential rains sent the Guadalupe River into cabins early July 4, lawyer Kyle Findley says. Yet camp officials during the interim removed lawn care equipment, he said.

"Lawn equipment was more important than protecting children, and that's the issue," the attorney told "Elizabeth Vargas Reports" on Thursday.

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I read the lawsuits. Those were not the only allegations. But yes, if my baby drowned after Dick wasted time moving lawn equipment and canoes, you darned right I'd mention it in my lawsuit.

Mystic had no plan to evacuate for a flood. It's inexcusable and I hope it never reopens.

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You dodged the point. Dick Eastland didn't know/think a 30' wall of water was headed his direction, and obviously didn't value equipment over his or those girls' lives. He didn't say to himself, "gee, I only have time to save mowers or save humans, guess I'll save the John Deere". Yes, he made a fatal and tragic error in not appreciating that upstream of the camp a 1000yr-interval flash flood was in progress. The same fatal mistake made by another 107 people not associated with Camp Mystic that night, and some 300 others that had to be rescued. I think it's fair to criticize Eastman. But smearing a man who died trying to rescue those girls, by claiming he chose lawn equipment over people, is filth. Your post is an emotional appeal distorted by hindsight bias.

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I didn't dodge anything. I'm not saying he knew what was going to happen. I'm saying that they didn't even plan for the possibility. And then when the water started to rise, they told the girls to stay in the cabins. Mystic was negligent IMO. The only recourse the parents have is financial and I think they deserve every dime possible.

Anti-taxxer said:

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BlackGold said:

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Anti-taxxer said:

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Not to belabor the point, but had he allowed them to move to higher ground earlier, instead of securing the equipment… he would not have been foolishly driving in feet of water.

I would also argue that you're playing a little fast and loose with the word "rescue". They were still in their cabins because he told them to stay. One isn't the savior when one causes the crisis.

No matter how you say it, or what your defense of him might be… 27 girls lost their lives because he tended to lawn stuff before relocating the actual campers. There's really no way around that.

---

This just feels a little disingenuous to me. One man did not cause this crisis. Nature caused this crisis. Dick and Mystic could have responded to the crisis poorly, but causing it is a reach to me. I know that when these types of situations happen, someone has to be to blame though.
I just don't know what type of response you can actually have in place to prepare for the worst flood the area has seen in many years. It reminds me a little bit of the tsunami in Japan that took out the ***ushima nuclear plant a while back. The facility, which was inland, raised all their equipment off the ground 4', if I recall correctly, in preparation and responses to a possible flood/taunami scenario. They never had an issue with flood waters until their final day, the day of the tsunami, when flood waters rose above 4' and took out the plant. You can prepare and practice all you want, but if the event you experience is so powerful and so quick, there is not much you can really do. Nature is beautiful, powerful, but unforgiving.
Either way, a horrific awful tragedy occurred made worse due to the victims being such sweet innocent children. I really hope everyone involved finds peace.

---

He could have done literally anything other than what he did:

He could have started evacuating the cabins when he first received the alert at 1:15 am.

They could have provided the counselors with communication devices.

He could have had a plan in place other than "call Dick", as the written plan required, which turns out to be not a great idea, because he had no ****ing plan.

No one said he caused the flood, but in my opinion, fwiw, those girls would be alive today if he had immediately stated moving them when he got the alert.

Instead, he hemmed and hawed around and secured the lawn equipment.

To not acknowledge that is absurd.

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I did acknowledge that Camp Mystic's response was poor. But to state that one man, Dick, who seemingly devoted his whole life to children, caused the tragic deaths of all those poor children in favor of lawn equipment - I just can't get there. I just don't think you can pin all of the blame on one man, who seemingly died trying to protect those same children, due to an Act of God.

I know having a perpetrator or someone to blame might be good for closure for some of the families, but it doesn't mean it is right or just.

I'm also done chiming in here since it is a very sensitive subject and not trying to get anyone upset. Still continuing to pray for everyone involved.

BlackGold said:

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Anti-taxxer said:

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BlackGold said:

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Anti-taxxer said:

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Not to belabor the point, but had he allowed them to move to higher ground earlier, instead of securing the equipment… he would not have been foolishly driving in feet of water.

I would also argue that you're playing a little fast and loose with the word "rescue". They were still in their cabins because he told them to stay. One isn't the savior when one causes the crisis.

No matter how you say it, or what your defense of him might be… 27 girls lost their lives because he tended to lawn stuff before relocating the actual campers. There's really no way around that.

---

This just feels a little disingenuous to me. One man did not cause this crisis. Nature caused this crisis. Dick and Mystic could have responded to the crisis poorly, but causing it is a reach to me. I know that when these types of situations happen, someone has to be to blame though.
I just don't know what type of response you can actually have in place to prepare for the worst flood the area has seen in many years. It reminds me a little bit of the tsunami in Japan that took out the ***ushima nuclear plant a while back. The facility, which was inland, raised all their equipment off the ground 4', if I recall correctly, in preparation and responses to a possible flood/taunami scenario. They never had an issue with flood waters until their final day, the day of the tsunami, when flood waters rose above 4' and took out the plant. You can prepare and practice all you want, but if the event you experience is so powerful and so quick, there is not much you can really do. Nature is beautiful, powerful, but unforgiving.
Either way, a horrific awful tragedy occurred made worse due to the victims being such sweet innocent children. I really hope everyone involved finds peace.

---

He could have done literally anything other than what he did:

He could have started evacuating the cabins when he first received the alert at 1:15 am.

They could have provided the counselors with communication devices.

He could have had a plan in place other than "call Dick", as the written plan required, which turns out to be not a great idea, because he had no ****ing plan.

No one said he caused the flood, but in my opinion, fwiw, those girls would be alive today if he had immediately stated moving them when he got the alert.

Instead, he hemmed and hawed around and secured the lawn equipment.

To not acknowledge that is absurd.

---

I did acknowledge that Camp Mystic's response was poor. But to state that one man, Dick, who seemingly devoted his whole life to children, caused the tragic deaths of all those poor children in favor of lawn equipment - I just can't get there. I just don't think you can pin all of the blame on one man, who seemingly died trying to protect those same children, due to an Act of God.

I know having a perpetrator or someone to blame might be good for closure for some of the families, but it doesn't mean it is right or just.

I'm also done chiming in here since it is a very sensitive subject and not trying to get anyone upset. Still continuing to pray for everyone involved.

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I agree. He didn't go out there with the thought of "I'm saving my equipment at the expense of the kids."

He didn't think the kids were at risk. That was the fatal flaw.

He had no plan for evacuations. That seems well documented at this point. They should be slammed for that. But saying he cared more about the equipment over the kids is a stretch that nobody has provided any sort of evidence for.

First Eastland interviews in this article:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/11/15/us/camp-mystic-flooding-deaths-video-map.html?unlocked_article_code=1.1k8.9z-H.mm_80XvhZMfa&smid=url-share

Warning: tough read

I feel about it the same way I did when I laid awake watching the weather and listening to my NOAA scream at me. The same as I did the next morning when the news came in. Having grown up in the country and well aware of how nature can and will teach you tough lessons, sometimes you just don't have the ability to make the best decisions when they need to be made. This was a classic case of normalcy bias. We're humans. We all do it. It's a tragic loss that wasn't going to end any differently than it did due to the information available at the time. We see this cognitive failure every time a storm forms in the gulf. It's what we do.

Saddens me to hear so many lawsuits are coming forth but it is expected in the litigious world we live in. I'd do exactly the same. I don't personally blame anyone, well, I do, but it's outside the scope of this particular forum.

I am particularly interested in the "piercing corporate veils' aspect. I know we have some resident attorneys, so I'll be following closely these cases and that commentary.

I hope the families can eventually find peace but I also hope the camp remains viable, the corporate veil cannot be pierced (that would end the camp), and that the insurance covers the lawsuits. Hopefully this will be a call to improving early warning devices..

I did a search and didn't get any results, so my apologies if this has already been mentioned.

It appears that Camp Mystic is being represented by Mikel Watts. Which is interesting because he is normally on the plaintiff side of large class action lawsuits, such as BP Oil Spill and 2 of the California Wild fires.

He volunteered to represent mystic pro bono.

Windy City Ag said:

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I just don't understand why so many people want to declare this best practice and write this all off as some sort of unpredictable event. It definitely was not.

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I recall multiple flash-flood situations along the Guadalupe in my lifetime, and I'm not THAT old. Seems to me that is something they should have planned for, planned for beyond "stay in the cabins".

That might be even more surprising!

aggiesherpa said:

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That might be even more surprising!

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Hea just advising and being a spokesperson for now. If he is their lawyer defending the case, that won't be free