Squadron7 said:

---

Plan all you want.

Nature always bats last.

---

True, but even though we all know we're going to die someday, there's no harm in doing everything we can (exercise, meds, etc.) to try and stave it off as much as possible.

This will be interesting to see:
https://www.instagram.com/riverofangelsdocumentary/

On the specific point of being prepared, my daughter went to a different camp on the river 7+ years ago and they did a flood drill once a week. The entire camp participated, To be honest I had never thought about it dropping her off, and she didn't mention until this summer's tragedy.

So there are other camps in the area that did/do have a plan, and the counselors and campers all know it. Hindsight is 20/20 I know but I wish Mystic had a better plan in place.

CLJ sent an email to parents yesterday with updates to their plan to reopen which includes many of the suggestions from here - moving cabins, adding more drills, adding two-way communications, alarming, redundant notification systems, etc.

roo333 said:

---

On the specific point of being prepared, my daughter went to a different camp on the river 7+ years ago and they did a flood drill once a week. The entire camp participated, To be honest I had never thought about it dropping her off, and she didn't mention until this summer's tragedy.

So there are other camps in the area that did/do have a plan, and the counselors and campers all know it. Hindsight is 20/20 I know but I wish Mystic had a better plan in place.

---

And that is what is so frustrating as a relative of a deceased young girl.

dermdoc said:

---

roo333 said:

---

On the specific point of being prepared, my daughter went to a different camp on the river 7+ years ago and they did a flood drill once a week. The entire camp participated, To be honest I had never thought about it dropping her off, and she didn't mention until this summer's tragedy.

So there are other camps in the area that did/do have a plan, and the counselors and campers all know it. Hindsight is 20/20 I know but I wish Mystic had a better plan in place.

---

And that is what is so frustrating as a relative of a deceased young girl.

---

I had assumed that was kind of the minimum that all camps would have been meeting and was quite shocked to find out how lacking Mystic's preparedness was.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/23/us/camp-mystic-texas.html?unlocked_article_code=1.oE8.owub.kanbezbGrUld&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Mystic is planning to re-open Cypress Lake next summer.

The first 3 lawsuits were filed by parents yesterday.

Those were hard to read.

redcrayon said:

---

Those were hard to read.

---

Agreed.

I assumed that Arnold & Itkin would pick up some of the plaintiffs. I am stunned that Yetter Coleman is plaintiffs' counsel in one of the cases. They they are known for complex commercial and appellate work....contingency fee PI/death cases. In any event, all of the lawyers who have filed so far are top notch litigators.

redcrayon said:

---

Those were hard to read.

---

Co-sign

culdeus said:

---

3 of the 4 petitions so far. The details in here are hard to read and there are targeted elements each of these go after. My understanding is the Austin families will file two additional suits in the coming days targeting other aspects for a total of 6 representing 19 of the departed.


https://www.scribd.com/document/946787008/Lawsuit-filed-against-Camp-Mystic-owners-in-Texas

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/26222188/20251110-pltfs-original-petition.pdf

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/naylor-v-camp-mystic-lawsuit.pdf

---

From the OB thread.

Reading through those makes it feel even more tragic.

Marvin_Zindler said:

---

redcrayon said:

---

Those were hard to read.

---

Agreed.

I assumed that Arnold & Itkin would pick up some of the plaintiffs. I am stunned that Yetter Coleman is plaintiffs' counsel in one of the cases. They they are known for complex commercial and appellate work....contingency fee PI/death cases. In any event, all of the lawyers who have filed so far are top notch litigators.

---

Must be a lot of money to be made.

Seeing A&I involved undermines the sympathy I have for the aggrieved that chose that firm for representation.

B-1 83 said:

---

Must be a lot of money to be made.

---

My understanding is there is less than eight figures in insurance. They are going after the sale of the property.

P.H. Dexippus said:

---

Seeing A&I involved undermines the sympathy I have for the aggrieved that chose that firm for representation.

---

They are?

I only read the first one, but it paints a really really bad picture of the camp.

I won't comment on the "it was all about profit" part as lawyers have to paint everything in the worst light, but if it was as simple as "had they gone to the rec hall, they survive" then that's really bad on the camp...like wow.

459TH DISTRICT COURT OF TRAVIS COUNTY; D-1-GN-25-009976; DOUGLAS GETTEN,JENNIFER GETTEN vs. NATURAL FOUNTAINS PROPERTIES, INC.,MYSTIC CAMPS FAMILY PARTNERSHIP, LTD.,MYSTIC CAMPS MANAGEMENT, LLC

I anticipate more to come.

They are all similar in nature. A few differences, but all point out that there was a lack of urgency with regards to moving the kids.

My understanding is that the rec hall was actually at a lower elevation than Bubble and Twins cabins so they thought they'd be safer in the cabins. Hindsight is that rec hall had 2 stories and the first level flooded. We also don't know if it would have held with an additional 30 girls on what I understand is a rickety 2nd floor balcony.

Evacuating to the rec hall was sort of a last ditch effort. Mystic should have had a building at a much higher elevation that could be the evacuation point…

Another lawsuit filed, by the Pohl family with more heartbreaking details that the older sister walked by the younger sister's cabin and asked if she could carry her little sister on her back.

AgLiving06 said:

---

I only read the first one, but it paints a really really bad picture of the camp.

I won't comment on the "it was all about profit" part as lawyers have to paint everything in the worst light, but if it was as simple as "had they gone to the rec hall, they survive" then that's really bad on the camp...like wow.

---

What do they say, "hindsight is 20/20"? I know people are hurting and want their pound of flesh but these lawsuits do nothing productive.

Mollie03 said:

---

Another lawsuit filed, by the Pohl family with more heartbreaking details that the older sister walked by the younger sister's cabin and asked if she could carry her little sister on her back.

---

That is a tragic detail in hindsight for sure. But another A&I suit, another insinuation that Dick Eastland knew the girls (and himself) were going to be swept away but valued saving lawn equipment instead. Gross straw man.

I have been a casual observer of this despite knowing several families impacted by the events.

I was surprised to learn that the storms of 1987 and 2002 were in some ways equivalent in size to this year's tragedy.

That punches a whole in the claim that this event was an unpredictable black swan.

Quote:

---

What do they say, "hindsight is 20/20"? I know people are hurting and want their pound of flesh but these lawsuits do nothing productive.

---

You can say that speaking from the cheap seats but the victim's families likely disagree with you.

Windy City Ag said:

---

I have been a casual observer of this despite knowing several families impacted by the events.

I was surprised to learn that the storms of 1987 and 2002 were in some ways equivalent in size to this year's tragedy.

That punches a whole in the claim that this event was an unpredictable black swan.

---

How many people died in those storms? I assume none? What was different about them?

AF2011 said:

---

My understanding is that the rec hall was actually at a lower elevation than Bubble and Twins cabins so they thought they'd be safer in the cabins. Hindsight is that rec hall had 2 stories and the first level flooded. We also don't know if it would have held with an additional 30 girls on what I understand is a rickety 2nd floor balcony.

Evacuating to the rec hall was sort of a last ditch effort. Mystic should have had a building at a much higher elevation that could be the evacuation point…

---

They were within yards of a hill that they could have gone up.

Mollie03 said:

---

Another lawsuit filed, by the Pohl family with more heartbreaking details that the older sister walked by the younger sister's cabin and asked if she could carry her little sister on her back.

---

My gosh.

KingofHazor said:

---

Windy City Ag said:

---

I have been a casual observer of this despite knowing several families impacted by the events.

I was surprised to learn that the storms of 1987 and 2002 were in some ways equivalent in size to this year's tragedy.

That punches a whole in the claim that this event was an unpredictable black swan.

---

How many people died in those storms? I assume none? What was different about them?

---

Pretty sure 10 summer campers died in 1987.

Quote:

---

How many people died in those storms? I assume none? What was different about them?

---

10 Summer Campers died in 1987.

Another 33 people were swept up in the river but ultimately rescued.

I don't think any campers in this specific section of the Guadalupe died in 2002, but 12 people died elsewhere

P.H. Dexippus said:

---

Mollie03 said:

---

Another lawsuit filed, by the Pohl family with more heartbreaking details that the older sister walked by the younger sister's cabin and asked if she could carry her little sister on her back.

---

That is a tragic detail in hindsight for sure. But another A&I suit, another insinuation that Dick Eastland knew the girls (and himself) were going to be swept away but valued saving lawn equipment instead. Gross straw man.

---

It's not that he knew, it's that he didn't plan for it.

redcrayon said:

---

P.H. Dexippus said:

---

Mollie03 said:

---

Another lawsuit filed, by the Pohl family with more heartbreaking details that the older sister walked by the younger sister's cabin and asked if she could carry her little sister on her back.

---

That is a tragic detail in hindsight for sure. But another A&I suit, another insinuation that Dick Eastland knew the girls (and himself) were going to be swept away but valued saving lawn equipment instead. Gross straw man.

---

It's not that he knew, it's that he didn't plan for it.

---

That's not the allegation of A&I. They claim Dick Eastland valued machinery over the lives of those children and his own. It's disgusting.

Quote:

---

The suit filed on behalf of Matthew and Kristin Pohl alleges operators of Camp Mystic ignored flood alerts that were issued as early as July 2 before torrential rains sent the Guadalupe River into cabins early July 4, lawyer Kyle Findley says. Yet camp officials during the interim removed lawn care equipment, he said.

"Lawn equipment was more important than protecting children, and that's the issue," the attorney told "Elizabeth Vargas Reports" on Thursday.

---

P.H. Dexippus said:

---

redcrayon said:

---

P.H. Dexippus said:

---

Mollie03 said:

---

Another lawsuit filed, by the Pohl family with more heartbreaking details that the older sister walked by the younger sister's cabin and asked if she could carry her little sister on her back.

---

That is a tragic detail in hindsight for sure. But another A&I suit, another insinuation that Dick Eastland knew the girls (and himself) were going to be swept away but valued saving lawn equipment instead. Gross straw man.

---

It's not that he knew, it's that he didn't plan for it.

---

That's not the allegation of A&I. They claim Dick Eastland valued machinery over the lives of those children and his own. It's disgusting.

Quote:

---

The suit filed on behalf of Matthew and Kristin Pohl alleges operators of Camp Mystic ignored flood alerts that were issued as early as July 2 before torrential rains sent the Guadalupe River into cabins early July 4, lawyer Kyle Findley says. Yet camp officials during the interim removed lawn care equipment, he said.

"Lawn equipment was more important than protecting children, and that's the issue," the attorney told "Elizabeth Vargas Reports" on Thursday.

---

---

I read the lawsuits. Those were not the only allegations. But yes, if my baby drowned after Dick wasted time moving lawn equipment and canoes, you darned right I'd mention it in my lawsuit.

Mystic had no plan to evacuate for a flood. It's inexcusable and I hope it never reopens.

redcrayon said:

---

P.H. Dexippus said:

---

redcrayon said:

---

P.H. Dexippus said:

---

Mollie03 said:

---

Another lawsuit filed, by the Pohl family with more heartbreaking details that the older sister walked by the younger sister's cabin and asked if she could carry her little sister on her back.

---

That is a tragic detail in hindsight for sure. But another A&I suit, another insinuation that Dick Eastland knew the girls (and himself) were going to be swept away but valued saving lawn equipment instead. Gross straw man.

---

It's not that he knew, it's that he didn't plan for it.

---

That's not the allegation of A&I. They claim Dick Eastland valued machinery over the lives of those children and his own. It's disgusting.

Quote:

---

The suit filed on behalf of Matthew and Kristin Pohl alleges operators of Camp Mystic ignored flood alerts that were issued as early as July 2 before torrential rains sent the Guadalupe River into cabins early July 4, lawyer Kyle Findley says. Yet camp officials during the interim removed lawn care equipment, he said.

"Lawn equipment was more important than protecting children, and that's the issue," the attorney told "Elizabeth Vargas Reports" on Thursday.

---

---

I read the lawsuits. Those were not the only allegations. But yes, if my baby drowned after Dick wasted time moving lawn equipment and canoes, you darned right I'd mention it in my lawsuit.

Mystic had no plan to evacuate for a flood. It's inexcusable and I hope it never reopens.

---

You dodged the point. Dick Eastland didn't know/think a 30' wall of water was headed his direction, and obviously didn't value equipment over his or those girls' lives. He didn't say to himself, "gee, I only have time to save mowers or save humans, guess I'll save the John Deere". Yes, he made a fatal and tragic error in not appreciating that upstream of the camp a 1000yr-interval flash flood was in progress. The same fatal mistake made by another 107 people not associated with Camp Mystic that night, and some 300 others that had to be rescued. I think it's fair to criticize Eastman. But smearing a man who died trying to rescue those girls, by claiming he chose lawn equipment over people, is filth. Your post is an emotional appeal distorted by hindsight bias.

THIS.

How do you not secure the actual children first? And then, try to load all 16 into your table when the water is over the tires.

That is clearly someone with zero plan. Never even considered a plan.