My mother lived on the Frio for years, and years ago my family (me, agmom and two now ag sons) were up for the weekend - we were enjoying the river which was probably 15' wide and 3 to 4 feet deep in front of her house with probably a 50 yard walk from her house to the normal river bank. I noticed her getting very nevorus and then she said "Get out of the water, we have to go up". I said "What" - she said "we have to get out of the water now, and go up - look at that bush". So i looked at a small bush and could literally watch it disappear under the rising water.

So we gathered the boys and their toys and headed for higher ground and within 15 minutes the small stream we were playing in turned into a raging river probably 75 yards wide and 25' deep.

I never really understood or appreciated the concept of river flooding until that day.

agdad4x said:

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My mother lived on the Frio for years, and years ago my family (me, agmom and two now ag sons) were up for the weekend - we were enjoying the river which was probably 15' wide and 3 to 4 feet deep in front of her house with probably a 50 yard walk from her house to the normal river bank. I noticed her getting very nevorus and then she said "Get out of the water, we have to go up". I said "What" - she said "we have to get out of the water now, and go up - look at that bush". So i looked at a small bush and could literally watch it disappear under the rising water.

So we gathered the boys and their toys and headed for higher ground and within 15 minutes the small stream we were playing in turned into a raging river probably 75 yards wide and 25' deep.

I never really understood or appreciated the concept of river flooding until that day.

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Thankfully y'all had good adult leadership. Wish the Mystic girls had been so blessed.

dermdoc said:

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agracer said:

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Thanks for posting this. Great information and kills the "they had no plan" narrative that seems to have taken hold and that Mystic did not do any due diligence on their cabins and possible flooding. They obviously did.

The problem, as I noted earlier, is there plan did not have any back up if things went wrong and a poor communication system (the PA system).

---

Seriously what is the plan? Other than stay in the cabins (which cost lives) and evacuating the lower cabins? There was no communication except word of mouth, the counselors were told nothing in the event of a flood except to stay put. So do y'all seriously consider that an actual plan of any sort? Did you read what Evangeline posted? Every camp I went to the counselors were privy to plans like what to do in case of a fire, etc.

And to go along with the data presented above, this is interesting. This is a time line of the flood. Every dot is 15 minutes. To me, it seems there was plenty of time to get everybody safe unless there was complete lack of communication and coordination.

https://f5s-img.s3.amazonaws.com/000/42/b0/42b0f0b2de8067c343f070ab76650c6406c93ef8_19716_u34090.jpg

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I agree with dermdoc. Yes, hindsight is 20/20 but this is not much of a plan. And as someone who has been a counselor in those cabins, I cannot imagine the horror and unknown going through those counselors' minds as they had absolutely no way to get updates, to know what what was going on, to update anyone...we absolutely needed a way to communicate. And not just for an event of this magnitude, but any emergency. Sending runners to the infirmary or office to ask for help wastes precious time.

And I also want to say that the area in rec hall is not really a space to hold people. It's more like a landing for storage. So even evacuating there was a last ditch effort and not a real plan. I doubt everyone from the flats would fit there. I've seen people say they're surprised it held under the weight of everyone.

Thank goodness that building held up.

DannyDuberstein said:

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Thank goodness that building held up.

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That is what my nephew Clarke keeps saying. He said the death count would have skyrocketed.

And logically, the Camp Mystic defenders should be extremely ticked off at the Eastlands and any camp leadership. Their actions (or lack thereof), poor decision making, lack of planning, coordination, communication, preparedness, and leadership cost 27 girls their lives and probably caused the end of Mystic that everyone (including me) loved.
I am not impugning anyone's character, great Christian people eff up. Action or lack of action have consequences, There has to be justice.

And also the anger Mystic Camp defenders directed at me or other posters is totally illogical. Do you think we wanted this to happen? We sent our kids to Mystic. Do you think we wanted or want it to be shut down?

Your anger is totally misdirected.

DannyDuberstein said:

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Big picture, it seems that Dick Eastland BS'd a lot of people about his emergency plan, including himself. I mean, he has parents out here still buying that BS. But to put that woefully inadequate plan on a page while at the same time not even following it, that is going to be a major, major problem when it comes to these lawsuits. No means of communication. At all. Inexcusable.

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this has been my biggest problem with the entire situation that I've voiced multiple times in this thread. Absolutely ridiculous.

dermdoc said:

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agracer said:

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Thanks for posting this. Great information and kills the "they had no plan" narrative that seems to have taken hold and that Mystic did not do any due diligence on their cabins and possible flooding. They obviously did.

The problem, as I noted earlier, is there plan did not have any back up if things went wrong and a poor communication system (the PA system).

---

Seriously what is the plan? Other than stay in the cabins (which cost lives) and evacuating the lower cabins? There was no communication except word of mouth, the counselors were told nothing in the event of a flood except to stay put. So do y'all seriously consider that an actual plan of any sort? Did you read what Evangeline posted? Every camp I went to the counselors were privy to plans like what to do in case of a fire, etc.

And to go along with the data presented above, this is interesting. This is a time line of the flood. Every dot is 15 minutes. To me, it seems there was plenty of time to get everybody safe unless there was complete lack of communication and coordination.

---

And that timeline is incomplete because the flood went another 8 feet higher to about 1' above the record flood (1932). The reality is that the NWS warning around 4am was not put out in time to help guide a change in response at Mystic, given that Mystic is 6 miles upstream from this gauge. But I am horrified when I think about 16 year old counselors with the burden of providing safety for a bunch of pre-teen girls on their shoulders trying to decide whether to follow their last instructions from Dick "Stay in the cabin" or to leave and try to get to higher ground as the waters continued to rise. It is absolutely unconscionable to have left them in that situation with no means to communicate their situation and ask for further guidance.

Regardless of what little plan they had said, nobody at that age should ever be put in the position of having to make that kind of life or death decision unsupported.

FM 949 said:

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Didn't we already do this a few pages back? My response then was how far do you take that plan. Is it for a 50 yr flood, a 100 yr flood, a 200 yr flood? A plan goes out the window when it is exceeded by Mother Nature. What happens if some unimaginable event sends water over the hill? What then? Is it still someone's fault then? Or at that point, is it so preposterous that it's an Act of God?

And since you added "And do you think Mystic did all they could to protect their campers?"

I think they did what they felt was reasonable before the event and met the normal standard of care in the industry. We can agree after the fact, that it wasn't enough for this event.

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I think this is the big sticking point for many in this thread and all over the state. IMO it should be clear that they DIDNT DO WHAT WAS REASONABLE before the event. Being in charge of over 700 girls and housing them next to a river is already a dangerous situation whether the weather is bad, or not. Not having effective communication, counselor training, etc is a recipe for disaster. And I am not just talking about from floods.

AustinCountyAg said:

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FM 949 said:

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Didn't we already do this a few pages back? My response then was how far do you take that plan. Is it for a 50 yr flood, a 100 yr flood, a 200 yr flood? A plan goes out the window when it is exceeded by Mother Nature. What happens if some unimaginable event sends water over the hill? What then? Is it still someone's fault then? Or at that point, is it so preposterous that it's an Act of God?

And since you added "And do you think Mystic did all they could to protect their campers?"

I think they did what they felt was reasonable before the event and met the normal standard of care in the industry. We can agree after the fact, that it wasn't enough for this event.

---

I think this is the big sticking point for many in this thread and all over the state. IMO it should be clear that they DIDNT DO WHAT WAS REASONABLE before the event. Being in charge of over 700 girls and housing them next to a river is already a dangerous situation whether the weather is bad, or not. Not having effective communication, counselor training, etc is a recipe for disaster. And I am not just talking about from floods.

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And they had experienced bad floods before. Granted not this bad. But my goodness, if you are by a river and experienced flooding and know the area is prone to that, how can you be so unprepared? It is mind boggling to me.

It is like a mountain area which has had avalanches not being prepared for future avalanches. And with 8 y/o little girls.

dermdoc said:

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AustinCountyAg said:

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FM 949 said:

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Didn't we already do this a few pages back? My response then was how far do you take that plan. Is it for a 50 yr flood, a 100 yr flood, a 200 yr flood? A plan goes out the window when it is exceeded by Mother Nature. What happens if some unimaginable event sends water over the hill? What then? Is it still someone's fault then? Or at that point, is it so preposterous that it's an Act of God?

And since you added "And do you think Mystic did all they could to protect their campers?"

I think they did what they felt was reasonable before the event and met the normal standard of care in the industry. We can agree after the fact, that it wasn't enough for this event.

---

I think this is the big sticking point for many in this thread and all over the state. IMO it should be clear that they DIDNT DO WHAT WAS REASONABLE before the event. Being in charge of over 700 girls and housing them next to a river is already a dangerous situation whether the weather is bad, or not. Not having effective communication, counselor training, etc is a recipe for disaster. And I am not just talking about from floods.

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And they had experienced bad floods before. Granted not this bad. But my goodness, if you are by a river and experienced flooding and know the area is prone to that, how can you be so unprepared? It is mind boggling to me.

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It is not an excuse, but it is an explanation...too many times, people equate being "above the 100-yr floodplain" as the same thing as "safe from flooding". It is an erroneous assumption that has gotten thousands of people killed over the years all over the country. The fact that we decide the need for and cost of flood insurance based on that arbitrary number gives it a weight in people's personal risk decision-making that is un-deserved IMO. All of the plans and preparations along that stretch of the river should have been based on the 1932 flood elevation, not the 100-yr flood plain elevation. When people erroneously think they are safe, they neglect the things they would otherwise need (like communications) that would be necessary to overcome mistakes they made based on their erroneous assumptions.

The plan to keep small children inside a structure, at night, during a downpour and flood, when that structure is outside the flood zone, the flood zone you paid to have mapped outside of FEMA, is fine. The last thing you want is small children panicking in a wooded area, near a river that is flooding at night in the rain.

Bus as I stated, TWICE, their lack of a plan if the flood was higher and their communication plan sucked. The communication plan was the PA system. No one is going to hear that during a rain storm.

I was also calling out posters who suggested they'd 'paid off FEMA' (paraphrasing) to have the flood maps changed when they did nothing of the sort.

And FTR, I'm not trying to defend Mystic or Eastland here. He did things as he'd always done them which is never a good policy. Sooner or later it will bite you and in this case it was the worst possible outcome.

txags92 said:

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dermdoc said:

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agracer said:

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Thanks for posting this. Great information and kills the "they had no plan" narrative that seems to have taken hold and that Mystic did not do any due diligence on their cabins and possible flooding. They obviously did.

The problem, as I noted earlier, is there plan did not have any back up if things went wrong and a poor communication system (the PA system).

---

Seriously what is the plan? Other than stay in the cabins (which cost lives) and evacuating the lower cabins? There was no communication except word of mouth, the counselors were told nothing in the event of a flood except to stay put. So do y'all seriously consider that an actual plan of any sort? Did you read what Evangeline posted? Every camp I went to the counselors were privy to plans like what to do in case of a fire, etc.

And to go along with the data presented above, this is interesting. This is a time line of the flood. Every dot is 15 minutes. To me, it seems there was plenty of time to get everybody safe unless there was complete lack of communication and coordination.

---

And that timeline is incomplete because the flood went another 8 feet higher to about 1' above the record flood (1932). The reality is that the NWS warning around 4am was not put out in time to help guide a change in response at Mystic, given that Mystic is 6 miles upstream from this gauge. But I am horrified when I think about 16 year old counselors with the burden of providing safety for a bunch of pre-teen girls on their shoulders trying to decide whether to follow their last instructions from Dick "Stay in the cabin" or to leave and try to get to higher ground as the waters continued to rise. It is absolutely unconscionable to have left them in that situation with no means to communicate their situation and ask for further guidance.

Regardless of what little plan they had said, nobody at that age should ever be put in the position of having to make that kind of life or death decision unsupported.

---

Assuming your information is accurate, I am horrified that 16 yo counselors are responsible for pre-teen campers in the absence of a flood. That is an easy fix.

AgFan1974 said:

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txags92 said:

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dermdoc said:

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agracer said:

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Thanks for posting this. Great information and kills the "they had no plan" narrative that seems to have taken hold and that Mystic did not do any due diligence on their cabins and possible flooding. They obviously did.

The problem, as I noted earlier, is there plan did not have any back up if things went wrong and a poor communication system (the PA system).

---

Seriously what is the plan? Other than stay in the cabins (which cost lives) and evacuating the lower cabins? There was no communication except word of mouth, the counselors were told nothing in the event of a flood except to stay put. So do y'all seriously consider that an actual plan of any sort? Did you read what Evangeline posted? Every camp I went to the counselors were privy to plans like what to do in case of a fire, etc.

And to go along with the data presented above, this is interesting. This is a time line of the flood. Every dot is 15 minutes. To me, it seems there was plenty of time to get everybody safe unless there was complete lack of communication and coordination.

---

And that timeline is incomplete because the flood went another 8 feet higher to about 1' above the record flood (1932). The reality is that the NWS warning around 4am was not put out in time to help guide a change in response at Mystic, given that Mystic is 6 miles upstream from this gauge. But I am horrified when I think about 16 year old counselors with the burden of providing safety for a bunch of pre-teen girls on their shoulders trying to decide whether to follow their last instructions from Dick "Stay in the cabin" or to leave and try to get to higher ground as the waters continued to rise. It is absolutely unconscionable to have left them in that situation with no means to communicate their situation and ask for further guidance.

Regardless of what little plan they had said, nobody at that age should ever be put in the position of having to make that kind of life or death decision unsupported.

---

Assuming your information is accurate, I am horrified that 16 yo counselors are responsible for pre-teen campers in the absence of a flood. That is an easy fix.

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From what I have heard, there were only 3 adults when the flood occurred. For 700 little girls.

So many of these Texas summer camps operate with majority of their summer staff being 18-22 year old kids. I worked at one of them. Now I'm questioning how many adults (not college kids) we had around. Is there a standard for this? What should it be?

AgFan1974 said:

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txags92 said:

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dermdoc said:

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agracer said:

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Thanks for posting this. Great information and kills the "they had no plan" narrative that seems to have taken hold and that Mystic did not do any due diligence on their cabins and possible flooding. They obviously did.

The problem, as I noted earlier, is there plan did not have any back up if things went wrong and a poor communication system (the PA system).

---

Seriously what is the plan? Other than stay in the cabins (which cost lives) and evacuating the lower cabins? There was no communication except word of mouth, the counselors were told nothing in the event of a flood except to stay put. So do y'all seriously consider that an actual plan of any sort? Did you read what Evangeline posted? Every camp I went to the counselors were privy to plans like what to do in case of a fire, etc.

And to go along with the data presented above, this is interesting. This is a time line of the flood. Every dot is 15 minutes. To me, it seems there was plenty of time to get everybody safe unless there was complete lack of communication and coordination.

---

And that timeline is incomplete because the flood went another 8 feet higher to about 1' above the record flood (1932). The reality is that the NWS warning around 4am was not put out in time to help guide a change in response at Mystic, given that Mystic is 6 miles upstream from this gauge. But I am horrified when I think about 16 year old counselors with the burden of providing safety for a bunch of pre-teen girls on their shoulders trying to decide whether to follow their last instructions from Dick "Stay in the cabin" or to leave and try to get to higher ground as the waters continued to rise. It is absolutely unconscionable to have left them in that situation with no means to communicate their situation and ask for further guidance.

Regardless of what little plan they had said, nobody at that age should ever be put in the position of having to make that kind of life or death decision unsupported.

---

Assuming your information is accurate, I am horrified that 16 yo counselors are responsible for pre-teen campers in the absence of a flood. That is an easy fix.

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There is nothing wrong with that under normal non-emergency situations if they are adequately supported from above by adult supervision. It is putting them in charge of life or death decisions without any two-way communication capability or adult supervision during an emergency that is horrifying and tragic.

Does anyone know if the counselors in charge of each cabin where even cpr/first aid certified?

dermdoc said:

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agracer said:

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Thanks for posting this. Great information and kills the "they had no plan" narrative that seems to have taken hold and that Mystic did not do any due diligence on their cabins and possible flooding. They obviously did.

The problem, as I noted earlier, is there plan did not have any back up if things went wrong and a poor communication system (the PA system).

---

Seriously what is the plan? Other than stay in the cabins (which cost lives) and evacuating the lower cabins? There was no communication except word of mouth, the counselors were told nothing in the event of a flood except to stay put. So do y'all seriously consider that an actual plan of any sort? Did you read what Evangeline posted? Every camp I went to the counselors were privy to plans like what to do in case of a fire, etc.

And to go along with the data presented above, this is interesting. This is a time line of the flood. Every dot is 15 minutes. To me, it seems there was plenty of time to get everybody safe unless there was complete lack of communication and coordination.

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Every dot is 5 minutes on the graph you posted, not 15. That seems to be an outdated graph that only shows when the gage stopped recording at 4:35am and doesn't show the peak crest stage of 37.52 feet at 5:10 am.

This is what a zoomed in version of that graph looks like. The red line is measured 6 miles downstream at the Hunt flood gage (which is the graph you posted). The green line is the Hunt flood gage time shifted 55 minutes earlier. The dashed green line is from the FEMA hydraulic model using gridded weather radar data from July 4. We don't know the actual flood timeline at Mystic but it probably fits somewhere between those two green lines.

mcsatx said:

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dermdoc said:

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agracer said:

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Thanks for posting this. Great information and kills the "they had no plan" narrative that seems to have taken hold and that Mystic did not do any due diligence on their cabins and possible flooding. They obviously did.

The problem, as I noted earlier, is there plan did not have any back up if things went wrong and a poor communication system (the PA system).

---

Seriously what is the plan? Other than stay in the cabins (which cost lives) and evacuating the lower cabins? There was no communication except word of mouth, the counselors were told nothing in the event of a flood except to stay put. So do y'all seriously consider that an actual plan of any sort? Did you read what Evangeline posted? Every camp I went to the counselors were privy to plans like what to do in case of a fire, etc.

And to go along with the data presented above, this is interesting. This is a time line of the flood. Every dot is 15 minutes. To me, it seems there was plenty of time to get everybody safe unless there was complete lack of communication and coordination.

---

Every dot is 5 minutes on the graph you posted, not 15. That seems to be an outdated graph that only shows when the gage stopped recording at 4:35am and doesn't show the peak crest stage of 37.52 feet at 5:10 am.

This is what a zoomed in version of that graph looks like. The red line is measured 6 miles downstream at the Hunt flood gage (which is the graph you posted). The green line is the Hunt flood gage time shifted 55 minutes earlier. The dashed green line is from the FEMA hydraulic model using gridded weather radar data from July 4. We don't know the actual flood timeline at Mystic but it probably fits somewhere between those two green lines.

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Fair enough. I am not as educated as you are on these things. In my opinion, they still had time if appropriate decisions were made. Even without plans.

I hope this is correct.

And am I right that they had a little over 3.5 hours to respond? And that goes along with the counselor saying she asked Dick 3x about Moving the girls to higher land. There was plenty of time in my opinion. And I am still sober and have not left.

txags92 said:

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AgFan1974 said:

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txags92 said:

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dermdoc said:

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agracer said:

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Thanks for posting this. Great information and kills the "they had no plan" narrative that seems to have taken hold and that Mystic did not do any due diligence on their cabins and possible flooding. They obviously did.

The problem, as I noted earlier, is there plan did not have any back up if things went wrong and a poor communication system (the PA system).

---

Seriously what is the plan? Other than stay in the cabins (which cost lives) and evacuating the lower cabins? There was no communication except word of mouth, the counselors were told nothing in the event of a flood except to stay put. So do y'all seriously consider that an actual plan of any sort? Did you read what Evangeline posted? Every camp I went to the counselors were privy to plans like what to do in case of a fire, etc.

And to go along with the data presented above, this is interesting. This is a time line of the flood. Every dot is 15 minutes. To me, it seems there was plenty of time to get everybody safe unless there was complete lack of communication and coordination.

---

And that timeline is incomplete because the flood went another 8 feet higher to about 1' above the record flood (1932). The reality is that the NWS warning around 4am was not put out in time to help guide a change in response at Mystic, given that Mystic is 6 miles upstream from this gauge. But I am horrified when I think about 16 year old counselors with the burden of providing safety for a bunch of pre-teen girls on their shoulders trying to decide whether to follow their last instructions from Dick "Stay in the cabin" or to leave and try to get to higher ground as the waters continued to rise. It is absolutely unconscionable to have left them in that situation with no means to communicate their situation and ask for further guidance.

Regardless of what little plan they had said, nobody at that age should ever be put in the position of having to make that kind of life or death decision unsupported.

---

Assuming your information is accurate, I am horrified that 16 yo counselors are responsible for pre-teen campers in the absence of a flood. That is an easy fix.

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There is nothing wrong with that under normal non-emergency situations if they are adequately supported from above by adult supervision. It is putting them in charge of life or death decisions without any two-way communication capability or adult supervision during an emergency that is horrifying and tragic.

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Agree to disagree.

Katherine was 19 and Chloe was 18.

evangeline said:

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Katherine was 19 and Chloe was 18.

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I know Chloe's grand parents very well. It is truly horrible. And I believe preventable. Lots of families changed forever.
Oh, and I believe the Childress's have a long Mystic history.

evangeline said:

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Katherine was 19 and Chloe was 18.

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Just curious, did Mystic provide CPR or any medical emergency training for the counselors?

No, they didn't.

I am so heartbroken for all the losses. I think about the girls every single day. Sending you and your family many prayers.

dermdoc said:

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And am I right that they had a little over 3.5 hours to respond? And that goes along with the counselor saying she asked Dick 3x about Moving the girls to higher land. There was plenty of time in my opinion. And I am still sober and have not left.

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At most, somewhere between 1hr 40mins to 2hr 20mins to safely evacuate Twins/Bubble if the evacuation begins immediately at the 1:14am NWS flash flood warning. Or a little over an hour if the evacuation begins after the river rises a few feet.

The road outside Bug House is at about 1838' and the ground outside Twins/Bubble is about 1843'. Evacuation would ideally happen before water rises to those levels. Using the time shifted Hunt flood gage data, that would be around 3:20am for Bug House and 3:35am for Twins/Bubble. Using the hydraulic model, those times would about 40 minutes earlier.

Regarding the girls reporting water entering the cabins closest to the river, I think that was likely runoff water from the hill rather than actual flood water. Based on the elevation of the cabin floors and elevation of the roadway, they would not have been able to walk to the office if the flood water was already above the cabin floor.

Quote:

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At most, somewhere between 1hr 40mins to 2hr 20mins to safely evacuate Twins/Bubble if the evacuation begins immediately at the 1:14am NWS flash flood warning. Or a little over an hour if the evacuation begins after the river rises a few feet.

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I was about to ask that question. Using the FEMA model the optimum time to take action on site would be about 0230. NOAA freely admits they have a tendance to over report- the 2019 implementation may help see NOAA

Unfortunately, hard data only exists downstream at the Hunt site. Seems to me that additional flood gauges upstream might have helped. But to do that in unincorporated areas would require a robust early warning system at the county level and willingness by the stakeholders to spend the time and money to install.

Thanks for the work and effort you put into this topic.

Thank you again for posting this. Very useful information and aligns with what I was previously told but I'm not smart enough to even begin to communicate it in the manner you did. Hopefully the reality of the situation and what unfolded is what decisions are based off of to help prevent a tragedy like this from happening again in the future. I'm worried that what really transpired is going to come out far too late and the decisions made to prevent similar tragedies is not going to be based off of accurate information.

Alta said:

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Thank you again for posting this. Very useful information and aligns with what I was previously told but I'm not smart enough to even begin to communicate it in the manner you did. Hopefully the reality of the situation and what unfolded is what decisions are based off of to help prevent a tragedy like this from happening again in the future. I'm worried that what really transpired is going to come out far too late and the decisions made to prevent similar tragedies is not going to be based off of accurate information.

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That is my fear also.

71 jock said:

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Man a lot of you guys should just stop posting on this thread. You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

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I predict this will not age well in the coming weeks. And I will not stoop to personal false accusations of other posters. I am from SE Texas and we have a word for folks like that. I will not post it here.
And I am sober and not leaving. God bless Mary Grace and all the Heaven's 27 and their families.

Quote:

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NOAA freely admits they have a tendance to over report- the 2019 implementation may help see NOAA

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I think the 2019 implementation made it worse. From 2019 to July 3 2025, there were 3 flash flood warnings at Camp Mystic and each of those warnings indicated "life threatening flash flooding". On those three occasions, the Hunt flood gage measured a max rise of 0.3 feet, 1.7 feet, and 0.8 feet. On July 4 2025, the 1:14am flash flood warning included that exact same "life threatening flash flooding" language and the Hunt flood gage measured a max rise of 29.9 feet. The warnings need to be clearly distinguishable between a 5-year flood and a 500-year flood.

71 jock said:

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I'm genuinely curious how many of you have actually ever been to Camp Mystic, met the Eastland's, seen the love and Christian growth these girls experience while there. I've seen a few on this thread. That's it. The rest of you have no idea how this camp has impacted girls and families for generations. Everyone's heart absolutely breaks for what happened to the girls lost, their families, and the Eastland family.

When you actually know how special this place is which 99% of you don't, you can grieve with the families AND want the camp to continue. The best way to honor those girls is to remember them every day but especially every summer at camp. Closing down the camp will do nothing but damage this opportunity. They will never be forgotten, and we continually pray for them. Taking that away from others is not the answer.

It's easy for outsiders to spread misinformation and talk of money and greed, but I'm here to tell you again, you have no idea what you are talking about. We don't know what's going to happen, but I can tell you my daughter and her entire cabin she's been with for 6 years, will not hesitate to go back if given that chance. And those of you saying most parents wouldn't send their kids back are just flat out wrong and again showing you have no idea what you are talking about.

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First of all, I am a Christian. As are my entire family. As was Mary Grace. And her family. I am tired of being lectured on how stupid I and others are about "how things really are". You know nothing about me or other posters who you say "don't know what they are talking about". Who the heck are you? And if we are "outsiders" in your estimation, is it only "insiders" like you who know the "real truth".
In my opinion, your posts reek of arrogance and a minimilization of our losses. It is all about what you want, which is for Mystic to go on. Which I actually am fine with (as I love Mystic and the Christian concept) but under new responsible ownership and management.

And am happy that unlike us, your daughters are alive.

And how many of the parents who want their daughters to go back lost a daughter? Do you not understand the gravity of what happened to families? And how it is perceived that to you it is seems more important that your kids get to experience Mystic and not the losses of "outsiders"? And ironically, your anger is displaced. It is becoming obvious who the folks are who were most responsible for the deaths and the potential closure. The possible closure is not the fault of the families of the 27 girls. But make us folks who lost kids the "outsiders" and bad guys which obviously is completely illogical.