_mpaul said:

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This is one of the better YouTube aviation guys giving some analysis. His theory is they accidentally raised the flaps instead of the gear.

Side note: he was trying to get the copilot seat for flight 11 on 9/11 but got bumped at the last minute by someone with more seniority.

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Capt steeeeeeve is an idiot

AggieFlyboy said:

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_mpaul said:

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This is one of the better YouTube aviation guys giving some analysis. His theory is they accidentally raised the flaps instead of the gear.

Side note: he was trying to get the copilot seat for flight 11 on 9/11 but got bumped at the last minute by someone with more seniority.

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Capt steeeeeeve is an idiot

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Flap handle is on the pedestal; gear is on the forward panel.
Pretty hard to do.

But anything is possible

It has happened

What platform had you left seat at 400 hours?

Is this something a pilot may have passed on to the co-pilot who had far less flight experience? Newer plane model + inexperience could be a factor.

GAC06 said:

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What platform had you left seat at 400 hours?

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Bombers
And instructor at 900

AggieFlyboy said:

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GAC06 said:

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What platform had you left seat at 400 hours?

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Bombers…may have been 500; it was a long time ago and I've slept a lot since then
And instructor at 900

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Wow. Struck me as strange but I was single seat

The very second the pilot not flying reaches for the flap handle instead of the gear handle, the other guy will just about break his arm off.

And, flap handles have " Gates" on them not only protecting inadvertent initiation" but also making the process of flap initiation slow and measured in contrast with the gear handle which is immediate.

Also, with Take Off power set, the gear hanging very marginally affects drag and climb rate. I've seen many times in the simulator pilots forget the gear on a single engine Go-Around and easily climb out on a single engine. ( of course in this situation the aircraft already has kinetic energy)Or, actually forget to raise the gear on take off with a low energy event

I'm not buying the wrong handle scenario.

Of course, as usual, I could be wrong…

Every year man keeps making more and more foolproof things.

Every year nature keeps making bigger and better fools.

Never underestimate a human's ability to totally **** up in a way thought to be basically impossible.

That said, we still don't know if inadvertent raising of the flaps is the cause, but given human nature, it can't be ruled out.

The FDR and CVR should be able to confirm or eliminate a good amount of the human error possibilities once analyzed.

Thank you for posting this. Really fascinating stuff for those of us who are plane enthusiasts!

I looked at several other forums, and this one seems to be one of the best regarding discussions of the incident.
https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/666472-plane-crash-near-ahmedabad.html

It's important to read the whole thread to have the proper context for the comments.

Really need the black box information to narrow down what occurred.

Rapier108 said:

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Every year man keeps making more and more foolproof things.

Every year nature keeps making bigger and better fools.

Never underestimate a human's ability to totally **** up in a way thought to be basically impossible.

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You can't process your way out of stupid.

AggieFlyboy said:

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_mpaul said:

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This is one of the better YouTube aviation guys giving some analysis. His theory is they accidentally raised the flaps instead of the gear.

Side note: he was trying to get the copilot seat for flight 11 on 9/11 but got bumped at the last minute by someone with more seniority.

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Capt steeeeeeve is an idiot

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Why do you say he's an idiot

mickeyrig06sq3 said:

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Rapier108 said:

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Every year man keeps making more and more foolproof things.

Every year nature keeps making bigger and better fools.

Never underestimate a human's ability to totally **** up in a way thought to be basically impossible.

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You can't process your way out of stupid.

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Boy, ain't this the truth.

mickeyrig06sq3 said:

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Rapier108 said:

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Every year man keeps making more and more foolproof things.

Every year nature keeps making bigger and better fools.

Never underestimate a human's ability to totally **** up in a way thought to be basically impossible.

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You can't process your way out of stupid.

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You CAN process your way into it, though. Not only by over-engineering, but by rewarding the mediocrity that leads to it, which inflates budgets, puts reactionary people in decision-making roles, and stifles actual innovation.

Has there been discussion as to what we think caused the RAT to be deployed?

Seems like major failure if that was deployed. It wasn't confirmed, but I think we saw evidence in the video.

This is an excellent theory on what could have caused that Indian plane crash yesterday. pic.twitter.com/NgI0gGutcv

— Vince Langman (@LangmanVince) June 13, 2025

Doesn't explain why the RAT was deployed.

Some wierd coincidences for me on Wednesday, day before this crash:

1) This flight was departing to London. I was at London airport.
2) While waiting for my flight, I was sitting by a window at the airport and for the first time in my life I saw "Air India" 787 dreamliner right outside the window. Prior to this, I never ever heard of Air India airline.
3) I was waiting to board my plane in which I sat in seat 11A. That is the seat the only survivor sat in.

Whitetail said:

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Doesn't explain why the RAT was deployed.

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There were reports from the same plane earlier in the day about electrical system issues. Possibly one or both engines were not generating power as they should have been? Maybe auto deployment if one of the engines was failing?

IDaggie06 said:

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Some wierd coincidences for me on Wednesday, day before this crash:

1) This flight was departing to London. I was at London airport.
2) While waiting for my flight, I was sitting by a window at the airport and for the first time in my life I saw "Air India" 787 dreamliner right outside the window. Prior to this, I never ever heard of Air India airline.
3) I was waiting to board my plane in which I sat in seat 11A. That is the seat the only survivor sat in.

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That's pretty wild. You should give a huge donation to my church, j/k. But seriously, maybe you're supposed to be thinking about something a little more.

txags92 said:

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Whitetail said:

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Doesn't explain why the RAT was deployed.

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There were reports from the same plane earlier in the day about electrical system issues. Possibly one or both engines were not generating power as they should have been? Maybe auto deployment if one of the engines was failing?

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I agree - I think that may be significant.

Grok says both engines (on the 787-8) have to have lost power before the RAT deploys. Seems unlikely for both to fail unless something external caused it.

Really makes you think

Whitetail said:

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txags92 said:

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Whitetail said:

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Doesn't explain why the RAT was deployed.

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There were reports from the same plane earlier in the day about electrical system issues. Possibly one or both engines were not generating power as they should have been? Maybe auto deployment if one of the engines was failing?

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I agree - I think that may be significant.

Grok says both engines (on the 787-8) have to have lost power before the RAT deploys. Seems unlikely for both to fail unless something external caused it.

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Survivor reported loud bang. If there was an engine failure and pilots shut down the good engine, does RAT auto deploy and how long is that sequence of events?

Very interesting theory.

there is almost no way they would have shut down an engine at that low an altitude so quickly.

IDaggie06 said:

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2) While waiting for my flight, I was sitting by a window at the airport and for the first time in my life I saw "Air India" 787 dreamliner right outside the window. Prior to this, I never ever heard of Air India airline.

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As someone who has experience with Air India (Singapore airlines is adjacent to them at Bush Terminal D when I used to fly Singapore) ... you generally smell Air India before you see it.

Per CNBC report, one of the black boxes has been found, but reporter was unsure if it was CVR or DFDR.

Dill-Ag13 said:

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IDaggie06 said:

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2) While waiting for my flight, I was sitting by a window at the airport and for the first time in my life I saw "Air India" 787 dreamliner right outside the window. Prior to this, I never ever heard of Air India airline.

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As someone who has experience with Air India (Singapore airlines is adjacent to them at Bush Terminal D when I used to fly Singapore) ... you generally smell Air India before you see it.

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Yesterday when I went back to look at my pictures from 2019 of flying on an Air India 787 from Sydney to Delhi, I noticed that one of my FB friends from Denver commented that it looked like a sh//ier version of Frontier Airlines.

If only we had scratch and sniff computer screens.

Please don't hit me, but I think I've found the problem...

sts7049 said:

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there is almost no way they would have shut down an engine at that low an altitude so quickly.

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Wasnt there an ATR crash a few years ago where the pilots did this? That was on takeoff too (yes, obviously different plane

It is Air India.
My money would be on a ground maintenance **** up.

Whitetail said:

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txags92 said:

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Whitetail said:

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Doesn't explain why the RAT was deployed.

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There were reports from the same plane earlier in the day about electrical system issues. Possibly one or both engines were not generating power as they should have been? Maybe auto deployment if one of the engines was failing?

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I agree - I think that may be significant.

Grok says both engines (on the 787-8) have to have lost power before the RAT deploys. Seems unlikely for both to fail unless something external caused it.

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Just catching up. The TV at the gym was showing an animation of the flight, and the caption showed the last "signal" from the plane was when it was still on the runway. Did all power go off at that point and explain the RAT deployment?

Following this story closely as we fly overseas a lot and the aviation and human sides both are incredibly interesting to me…

On an actual airplane at the moment from Athens to Boston and the WiFi is sketchy. Can't get the image to upload…but wanted to share one of the many human tragedies from this crash:

This picture was taken this morning in the crashed Air India plane. t Pratik Joshi had been living in London for six years. A software professional, he'a long dreamed of building a life abroad for his wife and three young children, who stayed back in India.
After years of waiting for due clearances, the dream was finally coming true. Just two days ago, his wife, Dr. Komi Vyas, a renowned doctor in Udaipur, resigned from her job. The bags were packed, goodbyes said, the future within reach.
This morning, the family of five, filled with hope and excitement, boarded Air India flight 171 to London.
They clicked a selfie. Sent it to relatives. A one-way journey to a new life. But they never made it. The plane crashed. None of them survived.
In a matter of moments, a lifetime of dreams turned to ash. A brutal reminder, life is terrifyingly fragile.
Everything you build, everything you hope for, everything you love, it all hangs by a thread. So while you can, live, love, and don't wait for happiness to start tomorrow.

Here's a link to the story:
https://www.businesstoday.in/bt-tv/video/heartbreaking-joshi-familys-final-selfie-before-air-india-ai-171-crash-480318-2025-06-13

Dill-Ag13 said:

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IDaggie06 said:

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2) While waiting for my flight, I was sitting by a window at the airport and for the first time in my life I saw "Air India" 787 dreamliner right outside the window. Prior to this, I never ever heard of Air India airline.

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As someone who has experience with Air India (Singapore airlines is adjacent to them at Bush Terminal D when I used to fly Singapore) ... you generally smell Air India before you see it.

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Rode the Emirates DXB-IAH 'Calcutta express' a couple times.

Got a respiratory infection from having a fleece zipped over my nose for 16.5 hours rebreathing the same air to keep from smelling waves of **** and piss.

Only after touchdown in Houston did I realize there were 5 dirty diapers stashed under the seat in front of me.

Spent next week sick as a dog.