Tanya 93 said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Then they can divorce but get an inequitable distribution of assets.

---

Nope.
They run the family, the home, and usually work.
And he does nothing because it isn't his job.
Well, cough up half the assets because he wouldn't have them if she wasn't doing everything for the kids and the home.

---

I guess we will see how long the current dynamic holds.

Young men hold a monopoly on violence in every society throughout history and still do today. Women's equality is guaranteed by the strength of their arms and the barrels of their guns.

The millisecond they decide this is not working for them anymore, women's equality is a thing of the past.

Martin Q. Blank said:

---

Given a person can wake up one day, sue their spouse for divorce with NO FAULT on the spouse's part, and take half of their assets and a lopsided custody of their children, should all marriages have a prenuptial agreement?

It doesn't even need to be what prenuptial agreements are typically for, which is usually two people with a lot of wealth want to keep that wealth separate.

It can just be an agreement that if you are suing for divorce for reasons other than (1) marital unfaithfulness, (2) physical abuse, or (3) not providing financially to the family, then you get no assets and the spouse gets all custody of the children.

The government used to do this. Find out who is at fault and take that into account. But today, a wife can cheat on her husband and still get 1/2 of their shared assets, get majority custody, and he has to pay child support.

---

I'd rather see the government completely abdicate all responsibility for regulating marriage. Make marriage a private contract between two people and let any disputes about the contract be handled in court according to the contract. Pass a law that says government will no longer issue licenses or adjudicate any marriage dispute that does not have a signed contract between the two parties. In the law, put in place the items that are required to be in the contract such as division of assets, custody of any kids, conditions on which the contract can be terminated, etc. and then just adjudicate in accordance with the contract.

Quote:

---

Make marriage a private contract between two people and let any disputes about the contract be handled in court according to the contract

---

They should come up with a fancy word for these contracts that take place pre- the nuptials occurring.

TacosaurusRex said:

---

You're a love stricken idiot if you get married today without prenup.

---

Yes, I was.

25 years and I still am.

Tanya 93 said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Then they can divorce but get an inequitable distribution of assets.

---

Nope.
They run the family, the home, and usually work.
And he does nothing because it isn't his job.
Well, cough up half the assets because he wouldn't have them if she wasn't doing everything for the kids and the home.

---

This is why you need a prenup OP. What a freaking joke.

Pacifico said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Then they can divorce but get an inequitable distribution of assets.

---

Nope.
They run the family, the home, and usually work.
And he does nothing because it isn't his job.
Well, cough up half the assets because he wouldn't have them if she wasn't doing everything for the kids and the home.

---

This is why you need a prenup OP. What a freaking joke.

---

Or men contribute to the home and child rearing. Know too many marriages where he felt he didn't have to do laundry because he made more money.

Tanya 93 said:

---

Pacifico said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Then they can divorce but get an inequitable distribution of assets.

---

Nope.
They run the family, the home, and usually work.
And he does nothing because it isn't his job.
Well, cough up half the assets because he wouldn't have them if she wasn't doing everything for the kids and the home.

---

This is why you need a prenup OP. What a freaking joke.

---

Or men contribute to the home and child rearing. Know too many marriages where he felt he didn't have to do laundry because he made more money.

---

Man, it's almost like the traditional gender roles within marriage and society that were standard until about 5 minutes ago solve a whole lot of these problems. Wild.

RebelE Infantry said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

Pacifico said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Then they can divorce but get an inequitable distribution of assets.

---

Nope.
They run the family, the home, and usually work.
And he does nothing because it isn't his job.
Well, cough up half the assets because he wouldn't have them if she wasn't doing everything for the kids and the home.

---

This is why you need a prenup OP. What a freaking joke.

---

Or men contribute to the home and child rearing. Know too many marriages where he felt he didn't have to do laundry because he made more money.

---

Man, it's almost like the traditional gender roles within marriage and society that were standard until about 5 minutes ago solve a whole lot of these problems. Wild.

---

Those previous gender norms are just nature. We have strayed from the natural order of things. And when I say we, I mean men. Men set up the current system, and it is men that will end it.

Tanya 93 said:

---

Pacifico said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Then they can divorce but get an inequitable distribution of assets.

---

Nope.
They run the family, the home, and usually work.
And he does nothing because it isn't his job.
Well, cough up half the assets because he wouldn't have them if she wasn't doing everything for the kids and the home.

---

This is why you need a prenup OP. What a freaking joke.

---

Or men contribute to the home and child rearing. Know too many marriages where he felt he didn't have to do laundry because he made more money.

---

You're right. She can sit in front of the tv eating bonbons instead, while he works all day to support the family, then comes home and does half of the home life stuff too. Strange perspective you have there.

It's not about money. It's about looking down on a guy because he works his ass off to keep the family fed, then make sure everyone knows that she "deserves" half his money, regardless of what she does to contribute, or what she does to impact the marriage. Both sides should contribute, but acting like a guy doesnt do **** because he only works all day to make money to keep the family fed and sheltered is absurd. And exactly as the other poster said, why a guy should ALWAYS make sure a prenup is in place.

Not for me, to answer the OP. I married an Aggie, we have very similar values and life philosophy, and she has absolutely been critical to my career success over the past 25 years of our marriage. Not everyone has my good fortune. But a legal document governing a break-up would not have made my marriage stronger. Hard to find the right woman. If I had not, I would not have gotten married.

Is it alright if I go to the bathroom now?

Tanya 93 said:

---

Pacifico said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Then they can divorce but get an inequitable distribution of assets.

---

Nope.
They run the family, the home, and usually work.
And he does nothing because it isn't his job.
Well, cough up half the assets because he wouldn't have them if she wasn't doing everything for the kids and the home.

---

This is why you need a prenup OP. What a freaking joke.

---

Or men contribute to the home and child rearing. Know too many marriages where he felt he didn't have to do laundry because he made more money.

---

I know plenty of marriages where the wife feels no true financial stress, has never touched a lawnmower, doesn't move heavy objects in the house, and most of all where the wife doesn't seem to notice anything the husband does around the house. I also know a lot of wives that don't want their husband to do the laundry or other household tasks because they want them done a certain way, women like their nests to be the way they want them and men rarely are able to fold the clothes just like she wants them or they don't use just the right softener she wants.

Men and women also have very different roles when it comes to parenting as the wife is typically the I don't know of any guys that can get out of helping cook and clean or doing general household duties, they just often don't do as many. Men tend to be the disciplinarians and coach the sports teams. Men take out the trash and do basic household maintenance.

The main difference is men don't tend to expect women to help with their roles and they even more rarely complain about them while women often take what men do for granted. Many women also tend to complain more.

As for intimacy women tend to need emotional intimacy while men need physical intimacy. You can belittle men for wanting sex but it is how we are hard wired, denying it to them is just as bad as if a man treats his wife like a maid with no appreciation or affection.

Women like to understand a problem and discuss it and tend to want to find a consensus solution. Men just want to solve the problem and move on. Ideally a woman can feel relieved to have a man who can take care of things that stress her out and allow her to not be overwhelmed. For men they sometimes need a woman just to give them peace and support, do that and he is predisposed to do just about anything for her because he wants her to be happy.

The key to making marriages work is to be honest in what men and women want and what drives them. We complement each other and can make each other happy if that is the case. The duties don't even need to be the same by the way or traditional but having a yin and yang and appreciation and patience for each other is crucial.

Marriage takes true commitment and willingness to give more than you take because at some point you will have to but the rewards are worth it 100x over. I have been fortunate but I worry all the time about my boys eventually finding a wife who truly sees marriage as the commitment that it is, I have raised them to understand what it means.

BusterAg said:

---

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

---

Quote:

---

Don't marry crazy people

---

---

Some people are sane at 23, and go bat**** crazy around 45 when certain hormone changes kick in, and start making really bad decisions.

I think that no-fault divorce is terrible.

If I were a man in his 20's right now, I would not get married without making it impossible to file for a no-fault divorce.

---

Menopause anyone?

If one is being absolutely reasonable and logical about it (and not some "well, don't marry a crazy person… yada yada), marriage is a contract (in the eyes of the state).

Would you enter into a contract in business where if there is a **** up, the parties evenly divide the assets?

Eff no you wouldn't.

And that's a prenump.

Queso1 said:

---

My wife is an amazing person. Maybe I'm cut from a different cloth, but I got on this horse with no intention of ever getting off. If my wife were to break it to me that she's leaving, I would never be able to trust another human being again - that's how much I trust her. I'm lucky because she 100% buys into the notion of marriage being a partnership. My problems are her problems and vice versa. I have been extremely blessed by God to have her. We have grown up together.

I've very much enjoyed marriage and if done right with respect and loyalty, it can be one of the greatest human institutions. But honestly, I couldn't see getting married again…she's my wife and the mother of my children. It ends there. Society has lost sight of what marriage is supposed to be.

---

Sometimes, those marriages, which are perfect for decades, still fall apart for no reason of one of the people involved.

When you have no-fault divorce as an option, it prevents people from taking a while to see if cooler heads will prevail.

Men have mid-life crises, women have empty-nest / menopause. When financial troubles stack up on either of those two, a great marriage can fall apart all because one side changes dramatically without any really good reason.

I'm in the same boat as you, though. Marriage for life. Would never plan to get remarried.

Tanya 93 said:

---

swimmerbabe11 said:

---

Those numbers get skewed by the number of men willing to leave and separate, but won't do the paperwork, leaving the woman to handle it.

---

Shhhhhhhhhh

Men are universally the victims of selfish women.
They have done nothing to cause the wife wanting to leave.

---

That's why a pre-nup washing out no-fault divorce for both sides seems to be such a non-starter.

Agree beforehand what the acceptable conditions of termination should be. I would never have married my wife (married 24 years) if she would have said she could leave me at a moments notice based on irreconcilable differences. The marriage vows cover a lot of things. Those vows used to be the expectations. They are just a meaningless tradition if there is not force behind them. The force from the cultural stigma behind breaking your marriage vows is gone. So, it just seems fair to get all of the options for dissolution in writing up-front.

Tanya 93 said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

swimmerbabe11 said:

---

Those numbers get skewed by the number of men willing to leave and separate, but won't do the paperwork, leaving the woman to handle it.

---

Shhhhhhhhhh

Men are universally the victims of selfish women.
They have done nothing to cause the wife wanting to leave.

---

If that reason is something other than adultery, abandonment, or physical abuse then it is not a legitimate reason for divorce.

The number of women initiated divorces would drop drastically if the system wasn't heavily weighted in their favor irrespective of the reason.

---

I disagree
Caring more about work and hanging with their buddies and not doing anything around their house is not being active in their marriage.

Wanting a quick bj before they go golfing for the 3 weekend in a month is not being a good husband.

---

Tanya,

Your story happens a lot.

But the story where the woman, who has demanded a lifestyle keeping up with the Joneses, hits 45, realizes her husband is bald and fat and has no hobbies because he works all the time, and she is really into her tennis coach, happens just as well. Do you disagree?

The difference is that the woman almost always gets out ahead in the divorce, regardless of who emotionally abandoned the marriage.

I'm saying that a man would be crazy to enter into a marriage today the way that the current contract is written. Hook up. Co-habitate. Co-parent. Just don't get married. It's a way better solution for guys these days, and you are likely going to see it more and more with the kids that are around 20 - 25 now.

The sexual revolution has made divorce much more appealing to women, but marriage much less appealing to men. Sex is no longer the draw to bring men into marriage. Good men can get the sex they want without getting married today. Something like 15% of the men on dating sites get 50% of the dates.

Marriage should be a two-way commitment, or not a commitment at all.

Finally, severe emotional abandonment can be a cause for divorce. It could also be a clause in any pre-nup that rules out no-fault divorce except under the list of exceptions.

Sound wisdom. We did that. Just celebrated our 49th Anniversary this month. She is still my best friend as well.
A marriage, like most things in life, have to be worked for and effort put forth and sacrifices made for it to succeed.
These things are something that seems lots of folks are too lazy or self centered to do nowadays.
My dad gave me the best advice ever for a successful marriage. He said to never go to bed still angry at one another. Resolve the conflict if it takes all night.
It worked for he and mom as they were married for 54 years before he passed.

I'm 50, been married just over 25 years, and I plan to stay that way.

I don't have a prenup. My wife made slightly more than me as a first year teacher when we met.

There are some "family assets" that remain outside our marriage and have not been comingled.

All that said, if I were a young man today I would never get married without a rock solid prenup. And if it were to ever happen that I considered marrying again, I would absolutely get a prenup.

I think that what this thread should show you is that any man worth his salt is going to give his son advice on pre-nups before he gets married due to the current legal climate.

I have only daughters, but I guarantee you, if my girl finds the right guy, and he brings up a pre-nup, I would advise her on why she shouldn't be offended, the type of pre-nup to get, and not whether or not to get one.

Good post. But if you trust in God fully and live by " Thy Will be Done". What happens is really his plan anyway.
God helps those who helps themselves. So is a pre nup helping yourself or could it be Gods plan for you to go through losing everything? Will the pre nup stop Gods plan? Or is it his plan?
Only prayer to him will answer that I think. He says trust in him and not worry about tomorrow.
It's sure hard to do that sometimes.

I am not arguing for women who sit at home and do nothing.

I specifically mentioned women who work outside the home and then have to come home and do almost everything

You know
Get up at 5 am, throw laundry in the washer, prep something for the slow cooker, make breakfast, pack lunches,get the kid ready for school, drop them off at daycare and elementary school, work in a office or retail or as a nurse, pick kids up, finish dinner, throw laundry in the dryer, do dishes, shower, and go to bed.

He gets dressed, goes to work, has a lunch meeting, comes home and relaxed. Maybe read a book to the little one but is more likely to workout or play a video game. And complain she hasn't picked up his suits yet and he is tired of the same 10 meals.

She does deserve half the assets when she is doing that and he is doing little to nothing at home.

This is not about wives who do nothing until just before everyone gets home. But the women who don't get weekends to relax but dust, mop, vacuum, finish laundry, grocery shop etc.

Him doing yardwork is not equal division of things that need to be done at home. Ignoring her and her needs is wrong just like it would be for her ignore him.

We could also quit screwing men over during divorce and child custody issues simply because of their gender.

AtticusMatlock said:

---

Fast forward to the 8:30 mark and you will realize why getting married at all is a terrible idea.

https://www.youtube.com/live/E5X86wtcusQ?si=0M3vvYWM7eRFQbT5

---

It's the best decision I ever made to marry my wife. 35 years, two kids, 5 grandchildren. She's helped me have an amazing life and I'm grateful for her every day. Marriage can be the best of things.

txags92 said:

---

Martin Q. Blank said:

---

Given a person can wake up one day, sue their spouse for divorce with NO FAULT on the spouse's part, and take half of their assets and a lopsided custody of their children, should all marriages have a prenuptial agreement?

It doesn't even need to be what prenuptial agreements are typically for, which is usually two people with a lot of wealth want to keep that wealth separate.

It can just be an agreement that if you are suing for divorce for reasons other than (1) marital unfaithfulness, (2) physical abuse, or (3) not providing financially to the family, then you get no assets and the spouse gets all custody of the children.

The government used to do this. Find out who is at fault and take that into account. But today, a wife can cheat on her husband and still get 1/2 of their shared assets, get majority custody, and he has to pay child support.

---

I'd rather see the government completely abdicate all responsibility for regulating marriage. Make marriage a private contract between two people and let any disputes about the contract be handled in court according to the contract. Pass a law that says government will no longer issue licenses or adjudicate any marriage dispute that does not have a signed contract between the two parties. In the law, put in place the items that are required to be in the contract such as division of assets, custody of any kids, conditions on which the contract can be terminated, etc. and then just adjudicate in accordance with the contract.

---

What do you think a prenuptial agreement is? Marriage used to be seen as a vow. You break the vow and you can expect your spouse to sue. Now they can sue even if you don't break the vow. So yes, I agree. We need to return to it being a vow and put it on paper.

We have also fallen away from understanding what a vow is. Today, I'd say most people see it as just a really, really strong promise instead of invoking God as THE witness to your promissory oath. You are making the vow to him more than your spouse.

Tanya 93 said:

---

Wanting a quick bj before they go golfing for the 3 weekend in a month is not being a good husband.

---

shoot idk

I came into the marriage with like 3 nickels so there was no point for me. Think at that time we shared a house, i had just bought a truck and my retirement accounts weren't worth anything. My wife is the loaded one, that's her fault for marrying a brokie.

Marriage is a covenant with God. If you or your spouse don't truly believe in God or consequences of sin marriage does not stand a chance. Breaking contracts with God have consequences just like pre nups do.

If a man were

- not a Christian,
- decent looking,
- and had other desirables

I would advise that man to never get married. It's not worth the risk.

Just live with someone - short of common law marriage - until that ends (if it does) and move to the next one.

Females are bat **** crazy imo.

Martin Q. Blank said:

---

txags92 said:

---

Martin Q. Blank said:

---

Given a person can wake up one day, sue their spouse for divorce with NO FAULT on the spouse's part, and take half of their assets and a lopsided custody of their children, should all marriages have a prenuptial agreement?

It doesn't even need to be what prenuptial agreements are typically for, which is usually two people with a lot of wealth want to keep that wealth separate.

It can just be an agreement that if you are suing for divorce for reasons other than (1) marital unfaithfulness, (2) physical abuse, or (3) not providing financially to the family, then you get no assets and the spouse gets all custody of the children.

The government used to do this. Find out who is at fault and take that into account. But today, a wife can cheat on her husband and still get 1/2 of their shared assets, get majority custody, and he has to pay child support.

---

I'd rather see the government completely abdicate all responsibility for regulating marriage. Make marriage a private contract between two people and let any disputes about the contract be handled in court according to the contract. Pass a law that says government will no longer issue licenses or adjudicate any marriage dispute that does not have a signed contract between the two parties. In the law, put in place the items that are required to be in the contract such as division of assets, custody of any kids, conditions on which the contract can be terminated, etc. and then just adjudicate in accordance with the contract.

---

What do you think a prenuptial agreement is? Marriage used to be seen as a vow. You break the vow and you can expect your spouse to sue. Now they can sue even if you don't break the vow. So yes, I agree. We need to return to it being a vow and put it on paper.

We have also fallen away from understanding what a vow is. Today, I'd say most people see it as just a really, really strong promise instead of invoking God as THE witness to your promissory oath. You are making the vow to him more than your spouse.

---

You are missing the point. I don't want government in the business of adjudicating marriage or divorce settlements in the absence of a written contract at all. If you want to get married without a contract, fine. Knock yourself out and find somebody who will do a service and proclaim you to be married. But if you want to divorce, go back to whoever married you because how it is settled at that point is none of the governments business. Taking government out of the decision of who gets married and how they get divorced would benefit everybody. It would encourage everybody to start marriage with a contract tailored to their situation that laid out exactly what happens if one party cheats or just decides they need to go find themself under somebody else.

Quote:

---

We have also fallen away from understanding what a vow is. Today, I'd say most people see it as just a really, really strong promise instead of invoking God as THE witness to your promissory oath. You are making the vow to him more than your spouse.

---

That would require belief in God

Logos Stick said:

---

Depends. If a second marriage later in life, most definitely.

---

. This. Don't ket the state statutes define what is community property or separate property. Eliminate unnecessary tracing. Define homestead and spousal allowance rights.

Don't make your spouse have to fight your kids from a prior marriage.

And most importantly, sit down and determine what each person expects for support after one spouse is deceased.

Married at age 27 after law school to a woman I met in law school. 16 year marriage. She got worse and worse over time, and it became unbearable. You don't truly know everything about a person until you marry them. I presumed, incorrectly, that some of her quirks would get better over time, but they did not. They got worse. I also think that birth control meds messed up her hormonally. It's not just me, she pissed off all her friends and had to get a new job about every other year. She never made partner at a law firm.

Even though we had no kids and both had high-paying jobs, i had to pay alimony for a while. She also took a large chunk of my retirement which was really unfair. She spent money like no tomorrow and was horrible with investing.

I am 8 years into another relationship, and we have no plans to get married. She went through a bad divorce too. Why give some judge or jury the power to fleece you just because she is a woman?

I did domestic legal work for a while and it's rampant - the male gets screwed. Yes, get a prenup, or even better, don't get married. You can take care of stuff with wills, powers of attorney and what-not. If you are married you can also do a post-nup. I had a few clients that got those when their spouse started acting wacky, and it literally saved their business in the divorce.

I may get married someday, but I will definitely do a pre-nup if I do.

Tanya 93 said:

---

I am not arguing for women who sit at home and do nothing.

I specifically mentioned women who work outside the home and then have to come home and do almost everything

You know
Get up at 5 am, throw laundry in the washer, prep something for the slow cooker, make breakfast, pack lunches,get the kid ready for school, drop them off at daycare and elementary school, work in a office or retail or as a nurse, pick kids up, finish dinner, throw laundry in the dryer, do dishes, shower, and go to bed.

He gets dressed, goes to work, has a lunch meeting, comes home and relaxed. Maybe read a book to the little one but is more likely to workout or play a video game. And complain she hasn't picked up his suits yet and he is tired of the same 10 meals.

She does deserve half the assets when she is doing that and he is doing little to nothing at home.

This is not about wives who do nothing until just before everyone gets home. But the women who don't get weekends to relax but dust, mop, vacuum, finish laundry, grocery shop etc.

Him doing yardwork is not equal division of things that need to be done at home. Ignoring her and her needs is wrong just like it would be for her ignore him.

---

LOL - Tanya is time traveling from 1982.


Majority of SAHM do this:

Wake up with just enough time to make sure they take their kids to school...likely still wearing pajamas
Scroll instagram for 90 minutes while drinking coffee
Spend money on items they just saw on instagram
Text husband that something is broken...that likely isnt broken
Take shower
Talk on phone to mom/sister for 2 hours while sitting down
Text husband that she has no time before picking up kids to clean house
Pick up kids in 500 dollar outfit in 80k vehicle to impress friends at pickup
Get home and order groceries online b/c she would NEVER go inside of a store
Turn on TV for kids or give them a screen at 4pm

Husband gets home at 5 (leaving work early)
Thank god he is home - time to put on a moomoo
She immediately takes screens away from quiet kids and tells husband to play with kids b/c she is worn out
Makes a overbearingly messy recipe for dinner while cleaning zero
Complain all dinner long about how no one is eating her eggplant parm (sorry babe. 8 year olds dong like eggplant. only an idiot wouldnt know this)
Scream at the kids for not sitting quietly at the table for 45 minutes and tell her husband he has to bathe them and put them to bed b/c she is too tired

Kids are in bed and netflix is on...oh wait - grocery delivery!
Husband get groceries that she paid giant markup and delivery fee on b/c he 80k SUV couldnt to get in person
He them puts them away b/c she is too tired

He showers hoping to get lucky
She binges netflix until 11pm and complains that the food has been put away incorrectly and that the dishwasher is loadied incorrectly from husbands cleaning of dinner


She doesnt shower, goes to bed dirty and tells her husband to shut up about his day and stop touching her
she rolls over, then decides she forgot to tell him that she wants him to do 50 chores tomorrow b/c she doesnt have time.


i dare anyone in suburbia to challenge this.

when the kids start playing sports she is mad that the kids arent better at sports and that the husband spends too much time playing with them and should just buy lessons b/c the husband is old, fat, balding, and not as good as the local junior college dropout at d-bat.

Quote:

---

had to get a new job about every other year.

---

Hear about this problem a lot.

Inability to function at the same job for more than a year is a huge red flag.

Can't even function at work for more than a year and that cycle continues; it ain't gonna be long until the bell tolls for thee.