samurai_science said:

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Gigem314 said:

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Old McDonald said:

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the myth that trump would have magically prevented the war is farcical. his capitulation to putin and antagonism toward ukraine has done more to embolden russian aggression in the past thirty days than any president in decades. he sees the putins of the world as examples to emulate, not as enemies to thwart.

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So Russian aggression wasn't emboldened 3 years ago when Biden was in office...it was purely coincidental. But in just 30 days, despite a 3 year war, Donald Trump alone has swooped in and emboldened Russia because he wants to be just like Putin.

It's incredible some of the things people are willing to believe. But at one point, some of you also were convinced that Trump was going to be locked up and would never win the Presidency ever again.

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Lot of smooth brains from Reddit here but the poster you quoting is a troll

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Stop with attacking posters. You're going to get the thread locked again.

Burnsey said:

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Jay@AgsReward.com said:

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It is amazing that a country invades a sovereign country and we are on the side of the invaders. That is the heart of the matter and it is disturbing.

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Sorry pal. That line above doesn't get Ukraine an endless supply of blank checks written on the backs of the US taxpayer. Ukraine's war has dragged on long enough and the billions we've paid to defend them are evidence of our support since long before their invasion. My apologies to Ukraine that they couldn't completely defend their county, but that's just not our concern anymore. Ukraine can't evict the Russians, and the Russians won't win outright as long as we continue to provide Ukraine weapons. It's a stalemate today, tomorrow, and for a month of months from now. It's time to see where peace can be found. Ukraine needs to realize accept the reality of their situation and get on with the idea that the US is not going to lead the charge into WW3 over their problems.

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Agree 100%. The Ukes are slowly losing ground, and haven't proven to be able to mount significant offensives over the past 12-18 months. It's time this war end.

tFast said:

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Teslag said:

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annie88 said:

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mallen said:

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Zelensky is a hero, Trump and Vance are imbeciles.

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Dumbest take of the day.

A hero? What makes you think he's a hero?

Gosh, I remember when Trump was president the first time, the leftist media said what a horrible person Zelenskkt was that he was a fascist and a dictator, and Trump was a horrible person to try to deal with him. And then somehow he became a hero during the Democrats corrupt administration.

What a joke.

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We are well aware that the the pro-russia side thinks a real hero would lay down and surrender.

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Yeah … about that … weren't you all swearing that Trump was a Russian agent for 4 years and that you have evidence. Put up or shut up. Woke progressives seem awfully eager for the U.S. and the rest of Europe to get dragged into this war. Woke progressives seem to be giddy at the thought of cheering on foreign powers at the expense of your own country. Pathetic.

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No. I'm a 3 time Trump voter. This is the only issue I disagree with him on

Teslag said:

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I think it's clear Putin completely miscalculated which president to invade under. Had Trump been president in 2022 he'd have just berated Zelenskyy into instantly surrendering the entire country without a fight.

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Hard to respond to this without making fun of how down bad some posters are.

Guess I'll leave it alone.

Why is the good ole USA supposed to provide a security guarantee for Ukraine? The deal that was supposed to be agreed on by both parties today was for the minerals partnership that would economically bind us with Ukraine and provide them more stability. Now we can forget that deal but Ukraine wants us to keep providing financial resources for their war. The American taxpayer will keep footing the war bill, just like we were paying for all the bogus crap that DOGE is uncovering. We're 36T in debt and can't keep spending our tax money on all this waste.

TresPuertas said:

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this is where I can't find common ground with you.

i agree with most of what you said, but don't agree that Zelenskyy is some sort of pro democracy hero.

hes not a benovlent leader. he's a corrupt grifter. we have sent billions in cash over there and he can't account for a large percentage of it. that's corruption, and he's a major part of it. and even if he wasn't, he's not doing squat to clean it out.

Id be overjoyed to find a real leader installed who would clean out the corruption and money laundering in the government and truly advance the interests of the country and its people. but it ain't Z.

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I'm not saying he is a pro democracy hero. He's a guy in charge of a country under attack from a much more powerful neighbor. He's probably made thousands of mistakes but he and the rest of his country understands the consequences of losing to Russia.

rootube said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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rootube said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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Old McDonald said:

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RafterAg223 said:

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Old McDonald said:

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backintexas2013 said:

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Old McDonald said:

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the way trump has handled ukraine so far is roosevelt urging churchill to sue hitler for peace on any terms, and demanding england's coal reserves in return. shameful.

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You have no plan other than Trump bad give Ukraine money. That's shameful

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and trump has no plan other than give putin what he wants and hope he doesn't do it again. unamerican and cowardly.

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The only reason this is going on is because your walking vegetable became president.

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we can dispense with this talking point now. considering how ardently trump and his admin have allied themselves with putin throughout this conflict, had he been president in 2022 the russian flag would be flying over kiev today.

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Trump was president for 4 years. Weird, Putin didn't bother invading until after he was gone..

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Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 before Trump was elected.

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So when Biden was in office?

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You might want to Google that. They invaded during the Obama administration. We did absolutely nothing. Then they took Crimea. Trump didn't really do anything about it either unless you count pressuring Zelenskyy for Hunter Biden laptop help in exchange for weapons. Biden gave weapons but too little too late and here we are with Trump having a meltdown in the Oval Office. I'd say we botched the whole thing on a bipartisan basis.

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sincereag said:

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Why is the good ole USA supposed to provide a security guarantee for Ukraine? The deal that was supposed to be agreed on by both parties today was for the minerals partnership that would economically bind us with Ukraine and provide them more stability. Now we can forget that deal but Ukraine wants us to keep providing financial resources for their war. The American taxpayer will keep footing the war bill, just like we were paying for all the bogus crap that DOGE is uncovering.

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We are expected to because Zelensky was lead to believe democrats and riño run things.

Yep. Ukraine needs more than money and weapons...

DannyDuberstein said:

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TheNotoriousP.I.P. said:

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The United States used to fight wars to protect free peoples from invading forces. Some of them against the very same aggressor that now threatens Ukraine. And we did this because it was morally right to do so. If you are not disgusted by our leader openly bullying the leader of a defensive country and saddling up to minimize the atrocities of the aggressor, then I don't know what to tell you. We shouldn't base our wars and military support off of what benefits us monetarily, we should base them off of what's right and what's wrong. Why else are we spending by far the most money on military advancements if not to defend free peoples where they are threatened?

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This is a naive load of crap. We always go for self interest. But you are welcome to send every last dollar you have over there, or even better, go head for the front lines. Let's see how noble you really are. Or is it only when it's other people's money and other people's young men sent to their deaths?

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Teslag said:

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I think it's clear Putin completely miscalculated which president to invade under. Had Trump been president in 2022 he'd have just berated Zelenskyy into instantly surrendering the entire country without a fight.

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Ok…you have absolutely no idea what would have happened so let's not go there.

However, I do question why you want an endless war that could turn into WWIII.

Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

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Teslag said:

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I think it's clear Putin completely miscalculated which president to invade under. Had Trump been president in 2022 he'd have just berated Zelenskyy into instantly surrendering the entire country without a fight.

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Dude, you are usually right about a lot of stuff, but you are overly emotional about the war in Ukraine.

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It's not emotional at all. And again stop attacking posters instead of their arguments so we don't get this thread locked again.

What have you seen out of Trump to think he would threaten Russia with any consequences in 2022?

Russia succeeding in Ukraine comes with a much bigger potential for WWIII than ongoing stalemate in Ukraine. In fact, the longer the stalemate goes on, the lower the probability of a Russian aggressor conflict goes.

FIDO95 said:

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VDH with another gem

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A very informed and educated perspective on the complexities of major conflicts like this one.

Farmer_J said:

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mallen said:

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Zelensky is a hero, Trump and Vance are imbeciles.

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I can't believe this post got over the usual 2 or 3 stars from the trolls.

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Its because so many believe MSM lies, and have never seen Z in drag. They don't care, or dont care to know how corrupt Ukraine is. They will go along with the MIC always. They are neocons and neoliberals. They support establishment candidates and the corrupt uniparty.

I'm not a fan of Russia or Ukraine. But peace is not an option for those who profit off of war. Peace is not an option for those who refuse to accept the Obama and Biden administration's prodding of Putin by talks of bringing Ukraine into NATO. We could never be responsible you see because Russia could never lash out in preemptive way without being the only party at fault. Its black and white to them that Russia is bad.

Frankly our country has done a lot wrong. More Ukrainians dying for a war they will never win is foolish. Time to end it.

They aren't taking Ukraine with or without our $$$. This is alarmist bs

Teslag said:

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Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

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Teslag said:

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I think it's clear Putin completely miscalculated which president to invade under. Had Trump been president in 2022 he'd have just berated Zelenskyy into instantly surrendering the entire country without a fight.

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Dude, you are usually right about a lot of stuff, but you are overly emotional about the war in Ukraine.

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It's not emotional at all. And again stop attacking posters instead of their arguments so we don't get this thread locked again.

What have you seen out of Trump to think he would threaten Russia with any consequences in 2022?

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He kicked the crap out of ISIS in a year and nearly went to war with Little Rocket Man during his first term. He was a deterrent, which is why Putin stayed at bay, so your hypothetical argument is moot anyway.

It's not our war to end.

Or continue

Teslag said:

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It's not our war to end.

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Then we should stop funding it and stay completely out of it. Glad we agree

2004FIGHTINTXAG said:

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Teslag said:

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Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

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Teslag said:

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I think it's clear Putin completely miscalculated which president to invade under. Had Trump been president in 2022 he'd have just berated Zelenskyy into instantly surrendering the entire country without a fight.

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Dude, you are usually right about a lot of stuff, but you are overly emotional about the war in Ukraine.

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It's not emotional at all. And again stop attacking posters instead of their arguments so we don't get this thread locked again.

What have you seen out of Trump to think he would threaten Russia with any consequences in 2022?

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He kicked the crap out of ISIS in a year and nearly went to war with Little Rocket Man during his first term. He was a deterrent, which is why Putin stayed at bay, so your hypothetical argument is moot anyway.

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Except Putin literally attacked an American base while he was president. And did nothing to respond.

Zobel said:

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Russia succeeding in Ukraine comes with a much bigger potential for WWIII than ongoing stalemate in Ukraine. In fact, the longer the stalemate goes on, the lower the probability of a Russian aggressor conflict goes.

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So nukes aren't a factor during a stalemate?

Teslag said:

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Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

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Teslag said:

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I think it's clear Putin completely miscalculated which president to invade under. Had Trump been president in 2022 he'd have just berated Zelenskyy into instantly surrendering the entire country without a fight.

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Dude, you are usually right about a lot of stuff, but you are overly emotional about the war in Ukraine.

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It's not emotional at all. And again stop attacking posters instead of their arguments so we don't get this thread locked again.

What have you seen out of Trump to think he would threaten Russia with any consequences in 2022?

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I'm not sure anybody wants Trump threatening Russia. His job here, and this should be very clear to everybody, is to put a stop to this nonsense. His job here is to negotiate away for a peaceful exit.

by threatening Russia, we run the risk of getting into a hot war with them or furthering the current war.

I want it to end. And if there are consequences, why does it have to be the US who enforces them? We've thrown enough money at the problem, that didn't work, I hate Putin, but I don't see how insulting him or slapping his hand is going to work. Trump's looking at this logically with the end goal being a stop to all this

And I will add, you'd be nave and thinking that Zelenskyy doesn't have some sort of stake in the war continuing and the money faucet being left on

And what would trumps response have been had Putin invaded? Arm Ukraine and support them in a fight against Russia for 3 years?

That's exactly what Biden did. So what would Trump have done differently?

Teslag said:

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Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

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Teslag said:

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I think it's clear Putin completely miscalculated which president to invade under. Had Trump been president in 2022 he'd have just berated Zelenskyy into instantly surrendering the entire country without a fight.

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Dude, you are usually right about a lot of stuff, but you are overly emotional about the war in Ukraine.

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It's not emotional at all. And again stop attacking posters instead of their arguments so we don't get this thread locked again.

What have you seen out of Trump to think he would threaten Russia with any consequences in 2022?

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How the hell am I "attacking" you? I'm just saying that from your history, you are emotional about this war. There isn't another poster on here that gets into arguments about Ukraine like you do. If there is a thread about Ukraine, you will be there arguing with anybody that doesn't want our tax dollars going there anymore.

DannyDuberstein said:

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They aren't taking Ukraine with or without our $$$. This is alarmist bs

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This doesn't change or even address anything I wrote.

Teslag said:

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2004FIGHTINTXAG said:

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Teslag said:

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Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

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Teslag said:

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I think it's clear Putin completely miscalculated which president to invade under. Had Trump been president in 2022 he'd have just berated Zelenskyy into instantly surrendering the entire country without a fight.

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Dude, you are usually right about a lot of stuff, but you are overly emotional about the war in Ukraine.

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It's not emotional at all. And again stop attacking posters instead of their arguments so we don't get this thread locked again.

What have you seen out of Trump to think he would threaten Russia with any consequences in 2022?

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He kicked the crap out of ISIS in a year and nearly went to war with Little Rocket Man during his first term. He was a deterrent, which is why Putin stayed at bay, so your hypothetical argument is moot anyway.

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Except Putin literally attacked an American base while he was president. And did nothing to respond.

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The one we're we smoked 400-500 russians and Syrians with 40 american soldiers and zero casualties?

Quote:

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by threatening Russia, we run the risk of getting into a hot war with them or furthering the current war.

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This sounds exactly like the Democrats crying over Reagan referring to the Russians as the evil empire. Reagan called them the carpet. He wasn't afraid of them. I don't know why Trump is.

Teslag said:

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It's not our war to end.

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Yes it is.

When you see a bully picking on a small kid with a lot of fight, but he stands no chance you break it up.

It's in our interest to say enough is enough.

TresPuertas said:

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Teslag said:

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Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

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Teslag said:

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I think it's clear Putin completely miscalculated which president to invade under. Had Trump been president in 2022 he'd have just berated Zelenskyy into instantly surrendering the entire country without a fight.

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Dude, you are usually right about a lot of stuff, but you are overly emotional about the war in Ukraine.

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It's not emotional at all. And again stop attacking posters instead of their arguments so we don't get this thread locked again.

What have you seen out of Trump to think he would threaten Russia with any consequences in 2022?

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I'm not sure anybody wants Trump threatening Russia. His job here, and this should be very clear to everybody, is to put a stop to this nonsense. His job here is to negotiate away for a peaceful exit.

by threatening Russia, we run the risk of getting into a hot war with them or furthering the current war.

I want it to end. And if there are consequences, why does it have to be the US who enforces them? We've thrown enough money at the problem, that didn't work, I hate Putin, but I don't see how insulting him or slapping his hand is going to work. Trump's looking at this logically with the end goal being a stop to all this

And I will add, you'd be nave and thinking that Zelenskyy doesn't have some sort of stake in the war continuing and the money faucet being left on

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Trump.made his point of view clear- ulraine holds no cards and the usa isn't willing to simply continue spending billions there with no chance of victory.

Who?mikejones! said:

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Teslag said:

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2004FIGHTINTXAG said:

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Teslag said:

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Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

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Teslag said:

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I think it's clear Putin completely miscalculated which president to invade under. Had Trump been president in 2022 he'd have just berated Zelenskyy into instantly surrendering the entire country without a fight.

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Dude, you are usually right about a lot of stuff, but you are overly emotional about the war in Ukraine.

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It's not emotional at all. And again stop attacking posters instead of their arguments so we don't get this thread locked again.

What have you seen out of Trump to think he would threaten Russia with any consequences in 2022?

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He kicked the crap out of ISIS in a year and nearly went to war with Little Rocket Man during his first term. He was a deterrent, which is why Putin stayed at bay, so your hypothetical argument is moot anyway.

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Except Putin literally attacked an American base while he was president. And did nothing to respond.

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The one we're we smoked 400-500 russians and Syrians with 40 american soldiers and zero casualties?

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Yes. And then nothing to hold Russia accountable.

Teslag said:

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2004FIGHTINTXAG said:

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Teslag said:

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Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

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Teslag said:

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I think it's clear Putin completely miscalculated which president to invade under. Had Trump been president in 2022 he'd have just berated Zelenskyy into instantly surrendering the entire country without a fight.

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Dude, you are usually right about a lot of stuff, but you are overly emotional about the war in Ukraine.

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It's not emotional at all. And again stop attacking posters instead of their arguments so we don't get this thread locked again.

What have you seen out of Trump to think he would threaten Russia with any consequences in 2022?

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He kicked the crap out of ISIS in a year and nearly went to war with Little Rocket Man during his first term. He was a deterrent, which is why Putin stayed at bay, so your hypothetical argument is moot anyway.

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Except Putin literally attacked an American base while he was president. And did nothing to respond.

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Two separate arguments and a complete logical fallacy.

Well, except for the hundreds of dead russians