Woods Ag said:

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Figure out and reach out to the hiring manager directly. LinkedIn and Email. It's easy enough to figure out email formats and email someone directly. Be persistent and follow up every 3-5 days… at least 3x and then give it 2 weeks and follow up again. I may even call them, but you need to be prepared. If you're not used to cold calling then that may be rough

If you're apply thru a job forum you're asking to be thrown out. Consider yourself lucky if guy get hired through that route.

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I have a job I'm happy with.

But cold-calling does not work. And I did try it. Unless you have either an industry connection or exceptional experience to back your resume up, your email gets ignored or they just tell you to apply through their company portal. It's not a tenable approach for entry-level job seekers.

"Hiring managers" rarely exist anymore. The hiring pool trimming is done entirely through committee in HR before anyone that has any idea what the words on your resume mean even looks at it. I'd get callbacks from HR for applications where I made it clear I'm disabled, but not the ones where I didn't. There's a reason for that.

The only reason I got the job I have now is because after graduating from A&M and seeing the horrible options that were offered to me, I found a specific job in the org and tailored my masters coursework to it. I found out later that HR would toss out any application that didn't have specific keywords in their course list, regardless of what the actual courses you took covered. As a result, the hiring pool for my job is artificially smaller than it actually is. And it's an industry wide issue.

Ag_of_08 said:

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Dude I've seen you post enough to know you're trolling. Try again.

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And we've seen enough to know you constantly blame others for any failure or bad situation.

It's a recurring theme.

Drip99 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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Drip99 said:

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fixer said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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Have any proof of it, or jyst towing the tech-bro mgmt line?

Funny, I know people with decades of experience in th tech sector who are highly skilled and motivated that are 1000+ applications in, some of them to companies importing people on H1b visas because they "can't find" workers.

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Proof?

Ask anyone to name the last Fields medal winner vs the last NFL mvp.

This isn't about just " tech". It is about cultural priorities.

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Can someone explain this lazy American work culture idealism? He seems to use the tech sector to paint a broad brush about American workers. You ever been out to the oil fields in west Texas, Alaska, dakotas? What about the doctors, nurses, mechanics, hvac, plumbing, electricians, steel, welders, farmers, ranchers etc.? I don't see a culture of lazy losers…I see millions of hard working Americans out there hustling and many working more than one job to put food on the table and chase the American dream. Many voted for trump because despite their best efforts of busting ass, they have still fallen behind over the last 4 years…and oh no they might watch a ball game on their 1-2 day off a week or catch their kids sports game.

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So bias in data sampling? So he's drawing conclusions while missing the bigger American picture. Got it

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Or...

You are...

Or….not

Drip99 said:

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Or….not

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I agree there are a lot of great workers in the US.

But, there are also a whole lot of lazy ****ers.

The funny thing is that TA has spent years *****ing about them and one comment by Vivek and apparently, everyone is hardworking and there are no lazy people...

Ag with kids said:

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Drip99 said:

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Or….not

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I agree there are a lot of great workers in the US.

But, there are also a whole lot of lazy ****ers.

The funny thing is that TA has spent years *****ing about them and one comment by Vivek and apparently, everyone is hardworking and there are no lazy people...

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I never said that. Every "culture" has lazy workers. I was simply stating that the American culture being painted was not true across the spectrum. Taking the tech sector and applying that to everyone else is silly. This board has also said that the American private sector takes care of lazy workers so they get weeded out. Either way, I agree that not every worker is the beacon of excellence that employers want…but to act like we have some over arching work culture issue is short sighted. There are plenty of hard working qualified Americans here to move us forward…and that includes tech.

my two aggie sons have a construction company in the DFW metro area - most (if not all) of their field employees are foreign workers and I asked them why - their answer: American born workers do not want to do the work

agdad4x said:

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my two aggie sons have a construction company in the DFW metro area - most (if not all) of their field employees are foreign workers and I asked them why - their answer: American born workers do not want to do the work

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Needs way more stars than I can give

agdad4x said:

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my two aggie sons have a construction company in the DFW metro area - most (if not all) of their field employees are foreign workers and I asked them why - their answer: American born workers do not want to do the work

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What is considered foreign workers in the dfw construction market? Not throwing shade but I think I know the answer

Drip99 said:

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agdad4x said:

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my two aggie sons have a construction company in the DFW metro area - most (if not all) of their field employees are foreign workers and I asked them why - their answer: American born workers do not want to do the work

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What is considered foreign workers in the dfw construction market? Not throwing shade but I think I know the answer

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It has nothing to do with H1-B's and No Spin knows this, but she just wants the warm and fuzzies.

No Spin Ag said:

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agdad4x said:

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my two aggie sons have a construction company in the DFW metro area - most (if not all) of their field employees are foreign workers and I asked them why - their answer: American born workers do not want to do the work

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Needs way more stars than I can give

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Forget the stars. I'll send you this book for free:

Send me your address.

Agdad did not say "for extremely low pay" -

the company pays $25 per hour to its field employees - I do not believe that in anyway is "extremely low pay"

I've done it twice in my career and was hired both times.

Once with a 10k person company and once with a small company. It absolutely works.

By hiring manager I mean the person you will report to or is going to have major pull in the decision.

No Spin Ag said:

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Quo Vadis? said:

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Vivek just exposed a massive rift between the Musk/Vivek "tech right" and the American nationalists.

We dont want any more Indians. We dont want any more third world immigration period. Hell, most of us don't want anyone from Norway or Hungary either. We have enough people. We need to convince Americans to get off their asses and make ween companies off the third world labor teat.

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But when Chad and Karen would rather live at home with mom and dad instead of getting the jobs the third world immigrants like Vivek are happily taking, what else can be done except to hire them? Wages have gone to and Chad and Karen still would rather stay home than work. How else do you convince them to work when it's obvious they don't want to.

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I work with just as many lazy arse Ashu's and Deepaks in IT as the Karens and Chads..They get away with all kinds of crap at the company I work for. There is nothing at all that makes Indians more talented or harder working than white people, it is just a myth. There are smart and dumb people from every culture as well as hardworking and lazy people. The only thing that set's Indians apart in IT is they are willing to work longer hours for less money to get a green card, and these companies that promote Indians to management let them hire almost all Indians to fill positions so they now believe they are the end all be all in IT positions just like Mexicans believe they are better construction workers or manual laborers than anyone else...

Ramdiesel said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Quo Vadis? said:

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Vivek just exposed a massive rift between the Musk/Vivek "tech right" and the American nationalists.

We dont want any more Indians. We dont want any more third world immigration period. Hell, most of us don't want anyone from Norway or Hungary either. We have enough people. We need to convince Americans to get off their asses and make ween companies off the third world labor teat.

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But when Chad and Karen would rather live at home with mom and dad instead of getting the jobs the third world immigrants like Vivek are happily taking, what else can be done except to hire them? Wages have gone to and Chad and Karen still would rather stay home than work. How else do you convince them to work when it's obvious they don't want to.

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I work with just as many lazy arse Ashu's and Deepaks in IT as the Karens and Chads..They get away with all kinds of crap at the company I work for. There is nothing at all that makes Indians more talented or harder working than white people, it is just a myth. There are smart and dumb people from every culture as well as hardworking and lazy people. The only thing that set's Indians apart in IT is they are willing to work longer hours for less money to get a green card, and these companies that promote Indians to management let them hire almost all Indians to fill positions so they now believe they are the end all be all in IT positions just like Mexicans believe they are better construction workers or manual laborers than anyone else...

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This has been my experience as well with people in IT. Some great, some terribly lazy, some incompetent, and those things uncorrelated with race.

However, it can be true that when it comes to getting in a position to have a cushy IT job, a higher percentage of east and south Asians who have immigrated put themselves in position to get those jobs than do whites, blacks, and Hispanics.

agdad4x said:

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my two aggie sons have a construction company in the DFW metro area - most (if not all) of their field employees are foreign workers and I asked them why - their answer: American born workers do not want to do the work

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My friend's oil field services company has the same problem. Except they pay $12/hr and it's back breaking work. To be fair they do have some Americans working there. Ex-cons and sex offender registry guys. Outside of that it's Hispanic men. The company does the bare minimum to ensure everyone pass the requisite right to work check. They spend more time documenting that they followed the law, as taught to them by their lawyer.

gbaby23 said:

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Monkeypoxfighter said:

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gbaby23 said:

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Azeew said:

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gbaby23 said:

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This is following a 48 hour conversation where Indians are specifically railing about the inability of white Americans to participate in the tech industry. He is implicitly stating that white people, the majority ethnic group in America, are incapable of this work.

He is lying. Even if there is a cultural problem, we have more than enough smart and talented Americans ready and willing to do the job. An overwhelming majority of them being white.

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LOL. If they could do the job they would be. Problem is, that a lot of the ethnic groups, like Indians, want it more, work harder for it, and are thus more qualified. Whites feel more entitled and want to bidtch and moan about ethnics taking their job rather than busting their ass to get to the front of the line.

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Thank you for proving my point.

Importation of foreign ethnic labor that will work for slave wages 100 hours a week. I am glad you showed how you truly feel about the American people and that you deem foreigners superior.

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Do you have any sources to back up the claim that the Indians are being paid less than Anglos with the same experience doing the same job?

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Yes

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Thank you for the information.
Seems this could be interpreted as the foreign immigrants are not as adept at their job as citizens, in addition to some companies abusing the system.
Which companies have been fined for abusing the system?

Ag_of_08 said:

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Hungry Ojos said:

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I think Vivek killed any and all goodwill he may have garnered over the last few years, with that one tweet. Absolute political suicide.

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Had to go back and read it more than once, I cannot believe a future republican presidential candidate was foolish enough to say something like that.

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It would have been better to have said the Democratic Party leadership is advocating for mediocrity disguised as DEI and woke nonsense.

jeremy said:

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gbaby23 said:

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Vivek? The guy who just tweeted that White Americans have a bad culture?

The reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born & first-generation engineers over “native” Americans isn’t because of an innate American IQ deficit (a lazy & wrong explanation). A key part of it comes down to the c-word: culture. Tough questions demand tough answers & if…

— Vivek Ramaswamy (@VivekGRamaswamy) December 26, 2024

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Tell me what's wrong in that tweet? He nailed it.

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He should have used a more targeted statement;

• A key part of it comes down to the Democratic Party leadership's definition of the c-word: DEI & Woke culture.

Pre covid 25 was a decent wage. These days, and if you had told me the day I left college this was true, it's scraping by with 0 chance for a home or family.

It's not awful pay, especially in a crisis market. I'm skeptical for that wage( and have plenty of out of work friends with construction experience that would jump on it), especially if they're teaching new hands, they HAVE to hire imported workers.

VerdeAg said:

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Work ethic sucks because we don't have any to be underpaid and working 80+ hrs a week like Elon and Vivek want us to, got it

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This keeps being said, do you have a confirmed quote by either Elon and/or Vivek stating that they will only hire people willing to work 80+ hours a week? TIA

...what? We're talking about what a REPUBLICAN, who's supposed to be very conservative, said. Trying to deflect and blame democrats doesn't change who said what.

Good to see the whataboutism isn't going to wait for Jan 20th

Look at how he runs spacex and to a lesser extent tesla...

gbaby23 said:

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akm91 said:

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That chart is so misleading. It's comparing scores of countries to specific US ethnicity.

In the 2022 scores, USA came in 18th, well behind the Asian countries, as well as Canada and many European countries.

Yes, there is a cultural problem in the US.

2022 PISA Score

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Seems like a race problem to me.

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No, the destruction of the educational system by the Democratic Party leadership accelerated by President Carter and the federal Dept. of Education.

agdad4x said:

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my two aggie sons have a construction company in the DFW metro area - most (if not all) of their field employees are foreign workers and I asked them why - their answer: American born workers do not want to do the work

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They don't want to because you are paying them peanuts. Increase the pay and people will work.

The problem these days is American corps are so greedy, they are okay with hiring foreigners, lowering quality in order to make the CEO's obscene bonus numbers.

Fat Black Swan said:

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Okay since the H1B visa and country caps and the tech sector and India an Indians are all a hot topic right now, I would like to address this as someone who has worked behind the scenes in H1B consultancies in the tech sector and explain EXACTLY why I’m against removing country… https://t.co/yJhvKFER5T

— VISH BURRA 🏴‍☠️ (@VishBurra) December 25, 2024

Quote:

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Okay since the H1B visa and country caps and the tech sector and India an Indians are all a hot topic right now, I would like to address this as someone who has worked behind the scenes in H1B consultancies in the tech sector and explain EXACTLY why I'm against removing country caps, against the H1B visa, and against the entire canard that we need to import more people from anywhere, let alone India, to do "jobs that the tech sector can't find Americans to do:

1) Sourcing Talent- Big companies like Google and Meta have the resources to go and actually pluck out the ACTUAL best talent from these countries, and it's not hard for them to attract those applicants either because they have the brand recognition. All the best want to work for the best. This isn't necessarily the problem. The problem is all the no name consultancies and mid size/small size consultancies. They can petition for H1B's too. How are they sourcing them? Well, they (usually run by Indians) just find a guy from India through their network…who's willing to work for them and come to America. That's it. They'll make sure they have some kind of Bachelors or Masters from some college out there and have the aptitude to learn and understand software that's it. They aren't actually "geniuses" or anything like that. They are just willing to work and can learn to "talk the talk" quickly.

2) Importation- once the prospective worker agrees, the consultancy petitions the American government (USCIS) on their behalf, saying they tried to recruit for the job (job doesn't exist) in America and couldn't find anyone, that's why they need to bring this guy. Key part of this is that the visa is tied to the employer, so if the employer drops the worker, worker has to go back. He can't just find another job. This is the indentured servitude model.

3) The Gambit- the consultancy makes sure the guy speak English, and that's really it. USCIS can't actually vet the workers on the knowledge they claim they have, especially a vast and sophisticated field like software. USCIS doesn't actually have a way to tell if someone is lying about their skills or not. All they have to do is convince the USCIS that they can speak English so they can come and immediately start working here.

4) The Actual Job- once they get the petition for visa approved and they come here, they find out (or already know) they actually don't have a job here yet. The consultancy now tries to find Corp to Corp contract gigs for the worker. That's if they actually know the tech and they're not faking. If they are faking their skills, another workflow is initiated.

5) Training Day (or months) - the fakers are trained for up to 3-4 months in a software that's marketable and fetch a good hourly contract rate. Basically a coding Bootcamp style program. They go from zero to superficial knowledge in the tech, just enough to pass an interview with a potential client.

6) Sell the fake - after training the fake for 3-4 months, the fake is provided with a fake resume claiming 7-8 years of experience. Why? Because that's how much experience is needed to demand a minimum of $50 per hour on a contract. Does it work? Duh. These workers trained for 3-4 months routinely fool interviewers looking for 7-8 years experience.

7) The Split- once the job and rate is secured, the consultancy bills at $50 per hour and pays the actual worker the minimum (about $27.50) an hour, and the consultancy pockets the difference. Imagine a 100 H1Bs on a roster doing this for you.

Does this sound like fraud? Well that's because it is, from beginning to end.

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If true, seems true to me, that process should be ended immediately.

gbaby23 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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gbaby23 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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gbaby23 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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gbaby23 said:

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Nice assumption, I went to schools with metal detectors at the entrance. Not a rich white enclave.

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Then you KNOW that the work ethic sucks in the US and it is NOT limited to WHITE people.

But, keep on with your distortion...

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Lol. I know it is not limited to white people, it is even worse for most non white people in America. I learned that quickly by being around them.

Like I said, we have enough homegrown talent even with the cultural issues. You are being duped by an Indian con man. He is telling you that America sucks so you should let him import all the foreigners he wants, which will mainly be Indians. Coincidentally, Vivek's homeland!

We can fix the culture without the foreigners. We can run our country without them too.

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Then, why did you lie when you said that Vivek said that about WHITE people?



FWIW, I have zero give a ****s about him. Or what his positions are.

I DO have give a ****s about people LYING about what was posted...

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Because I did not lie. You just cannot read.

He is talking specifically in response to the ongoing online debate about foreign immigrants, overwhelming indian, taking jobs away from Americans because they are willing to work like slaves at a discount.

Homegrown Americans in the tech industry are OVERWHELMINGLY white. This was an implicit statement saying "white Americans in tech are incompetent, we must import foreigners." Those foreigns just happen to mainly be compromised of people with the same ethnic background as him.

You are the mark being duped by a con man.

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I can read.

He DIDN'T say WHITE people, you just made that up.

Doesn't matter what the job market is...

I'm not even a fan of Vivek.

I just dislike liars more...

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Implicit, do you know what the word means?

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Why can't you admit you were wrong in using the word "white"? Could be you made a mistake in your post and cannot admit it?

johnnyblaze36 said:

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VerdeAg said:

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How do you feel about people who say “college is over rated ?” In order to have more homegrown engineers, don’t we need more kids going to college ? https://t.co/DO1ouuufy5

— Mark Cuban (@mcuban) December 26, 2024

Cuban enters the fight

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Why does Mark Cuban type like Dave Portnoy?

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Seems Mark Cuban didn't read the Vivek quote. I could have missed it but I did not see where Vivek said College is overrated?
Oh, and a perfect example of misplaced cultural priorities is paying an unnamed coach $75 million to fire him. Or being able to sell a majority interest in an NBA team for $3.5 billion.
This is only possible because our Democratic Party leadership has warped our cultural priorities to the extent people are willing to spend ridiculous amounts of money on things that provide almost no benefit to our nation. Don't get me wrong, I don't blame Cuban or the unnamed coach accepting the money, I blame our culture and educational system.

Nanomachines son said:

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SunrayAg said:

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gbaby23 said:

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Vivek? The guy who just tweeted that White Americans have a bad culture?

The reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born & first-generation engineers over “native” Americans isn’t because of an innate American IQ deficit (a lazy & wrong explanation). A key part of it comes down to the c-word: culture. Tough questions demand tough answers & if…

— Vivek Ramaswamy (@VivekGRamaswamy) December 26, 2024

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What part of that tweet was inaccurate?

My kid who was valedictorian of her class was bullied and treated like dirt by her classmates from 1st grade on, while the kids who couldn't read but could qualify for state in athletics got parades.

My son was the snart guy who never got in trouble on the football team.. and was treated like dirt by his teammates and coaches. While the trouble makers who never made over 50 on a test had their grades changed to passing and were constantly bailed out of trouble they started to keep them eligible to play football.

And I also remember back to junior high when I got tired of getting my ass kicked every day for constantly having the highest grades… I started missing a few questions on tests on purpose, just so the teachers wouldn't congratulate me for working hard and earning the highest grades… and getting my ass kicked after class.

He is absolutely right that our cultural priorities are fubar.

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I was a jock who made straight A's, sorry this happened to you but blaming this on jocks, cheerleaders, and drill team is insane.

There is nothing at all wrong with our culture, the first men who went to the moon played football, were in the military, and were classic jocks.

Vivek clearly has no understanding of American culture at all.

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I may be wrong, but seems people aren't blaming the jocks or the cheerleaders. They are blaming the culture that inordinately celebrate the jocks and cheerleaders.
I used to like sports and watched/went to games until the values taught and instilled by playing was distorted and we ended up with billionaires like LeBron and Cuban who now represent the failures of a culture.

$25 / hour is peanuts ? I can remember working for a lot less than that not too long ago

The same people that will die on the hill for WFH are the ones claiming companies shouldn't be able to import people willing to work hard for a certain price and instead we should just bid up the price for the Americans who aren't working hard now for current prices.

Some people just hate hard work and feel entitled to more money. Doesn't matter how they dress it up.

I have been a conservative my entire life. I was a two term tea party governor and was proud to serve in Trump’s first administration. And you are surprised that I am to the right of the guys who were Democrats a couple of days ago?

The concern we should have are the liberal… https://t.co/vmtzf6rG8A

— Nikki Haley (@NikkiHaley) December 28, 2024

FrioAg 00 said:

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The same people that will die on the hill for WFH are the ones claiming companies shouldn't be able to import people willing to work hard for a certain price and instead we should just bid up the price for the Americans who aren't working hard now for current prices.

Some people just hate hard work and feel entitled to more money. Doesn't matter how they dress it up.

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You can work hard from home just as easily as you can from an office