All I can say is these drugs must be in crazy high demand. My (step) father in law appears to be pre-diabetic (if not already there) and his ankles look really bad (appears he may lose his feet someday to my untrained eye)... The rest of his body is fat- but not insane.

Long story short - he can't find a CVS anywhere near him in Michigan that has the drug in stock to start the weight loss program his doctor prescribed.

Meantime- I workout 5-6 days a week (cardio and sometimes lift), try to eat greens and take fiber supplements prob 3-4 days a week... Been doing that for almost 10 years... Have stayed at 6'2 180 or less during that time (was at 210 prior).. I've never seen my in-law workout, other than when we all went to Disney and he had a heck of a time keeping up.

Digested and metabolized aren't the same thing. Digestion is breaking down complex compounds to extract the useful fragments and ether use or store them.

Metabolism is actually using the stored energy in those molecules for energy to do work or to carry out other life functions.

If you digest it but don't metabolize it, you will store it for later use if it can be converted to a fat.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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Madman said:

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MouthBQ98 said:

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I think it is the caloric density. A very small amount will contain a lot of calories the body will digest and add to body fat if they aren't metabolized. I think it is just that a little goes a long way, but food today contains a LOT of it.

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It would seem something not metabolized would not end up as fat or anything else for that matter.

I saw a few meme type posts claiming seed oils were bad because they were originally made to be an industrial lubricant. Which might be true, but doesn't tell me much about the health impact.

Just because I might be able to lube a door hinge with a seed oil doesn't mean its bad to also eat. Strange yes, but not necessarily bad.

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This, I could probably lube a firearm with olive oil, which is healthy.

I've heard people claim seed oils cause significant inflammation though. Who knows? I try to stick to olive oil and oilive oil based butter though, as those are more time tested.

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We are on the same page.

If eating seed oil causes inflammation, wouldn't eating the seeds also do something similar? I haven't heard anyone claim sunflower seeds for example cause inflammation. Someone might then argue that is due to the lower concentration of oil. But we are back at the beginning. Is the oil actually bad?

LMCane said:

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Chris Williamson podcast had an entire episode devoted to this with a former fattie Englishman who took it and lost a lot of weight and is writing a book about the pros and cons.

It makes me so annoyed that for nearly 54 years I have been depriving myself of food and exercising to stay in shape- and with a waist of 32.8 inches will be the fattest American left in another 5 years

because I will be the only guy NOT taking a GLP 1.

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Either eat a little more ice cream to get up to an even 33 inches or work out and get down to an even 32.

OldAg92 said:

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agdoc2001 said:

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Tramp96 said:

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But is it sustainable?

Even if there are no long-term side effects (and you know there will be), is this a sustainable approach to weight loss?

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It isn't. Weight returns after discontinuing the drugs since the person has never been forced to make any lifestyle modifications. This is just the latest search for a miracle pill rather than exhibiting a modicum of self control.

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That is a very general "broad-strokes" take. I started on Wegovy a year ago and told my doctor on day 1 that the medication was NOT going to be a permanent plan. We mapped out a long-term strategy that included weightlifting, cardio, changes in diet, changes in sleep patterns, etc. I have followed that plan strictly, am off the medication completely and feel better than I ever have. Lost 60 lbs, built muscle, lost fat and am no longer on BP meds either. The medication does not have to be permanent, as long as you are willing to make appropriate lifestyle changes.

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Something about that reminds me of new users of hard drugs who also plan to just have some fun for a while then quit later.

Aston04 said:

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All I can say is these drugs must be in crazy high demand. My (step) father in law appears to be pre-diabetic (if not already there) and his ankles look really bad (appears he may lose his feet someday to my untrained eye)... The rest of his body is fat- but not insane.

Long story short - he can't find a CVS anywhere near him in Michigan that has the drug in stock to start the weight loss program his doctor prescribed.

Meantime- I workout 5-6 days a week (cardio and sometimes lift), try to eat greens and take fiber supplements prob 3-4 days a week... Been doing that for almost 10 years... Have stayed at 6'2 180 or less during that time.. I've never seen my in-law workout, other than when we all went to Disney and he had a heck of a time keeping up.

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Your father in law seems to be the kind of person that is the taking this stuff, the problem is that if they don't make lifestyle changes it won't last … kind of like a 6 month high then it will all come right back. Cutting out the hamburgers, donuts, ice. Cream, cake, etc along with some working out is still the answer..

the old school book discussing calories in vs calories out is still the answer.. it's just like a bank account accept opposite, in losing weight you want more going out than is coming in! I need to up my working out and lose 15 lbs

Except I did quit the medication, and not the accompanying healthy lifestyle. Anyone who says you "have to" stay on these drugs forever or you'll gain all the weight back is simply not correct.

Madman said:

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schmellba99 said:

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Cruiser87 said:

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I've been back and forth on the diet rollercoaster for many years.

After my latest gain, with all the associated back pain and other issues, I'm finally on a true lifestyle change, as opposed to lose it then forget it gaining it all back.

I have a way to go, but I will get there before my son's ring day this fall if it's the only thing I do.

And as far as I'm concerned, the real problem is all the sugar (read high fructose corn syrup) in everything.

P.S. Before anyone asks, I do a combination of dumbbell weights and walking. I don't want to end up with a lot of loose skin, though I need to deal with "turkey neck."

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No doubt our food system needs an overhaul in how it processes and produces food.

Sugar and the 8 or so seed oils are the biggest killers in our daily diets. They represent something like 70% of the calories we take in collectively, and they aren't good calories.

Most, if not all, of the seed oils that are used in the highest volumes today didn't even exist 100-120 years ago. But today they make up the largest percentage of calories we (as a country) intake. These oils are not particularly good for us, but production continues to increase and their use in every day foods continues to increase exponentially.

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This is not a trick question.

Explain the seed oil topic to me please. I have tried to understand but clearly something is not getting through. For example I don't see people saying don't eat the seeds these oils come from, just don't use the oil. Which is probably the root of my not understanding the problem.

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Caloric density. You can eat a bag of sunflower seeds and get (just making numbers up here, because this is texags and if you aren't 100% perfect on your numbers somebody will come out of the woodworks and try to negate everything you are saying. So this is my disclaimer on the made up numbers.) 1 gram of sunflower oil consumed.

But press that oil out of a bunch of seeds and you can use it as a binder or filler in processing foods and end up with 100 grams of it in a meal.

Those seed oils contain a lot of Omega 6 fatty acids and linoleic acids, which aren't good for you. Known to contribute to inflammation. They are also high in trans fats, which aren't particularly good for you either. All 3 have effects down to the cellular level in people.

Part of it is also the fact that since the 50's, when the whole phenomenon of "fat is bad" was developed, we have collectively skewed the balance of saturated and polyunsaturated fat ratio that the human body is designed to consume. Things like Crisco, margarine, etc replaced natural fats like butter, lard, beef tallow, etc. that were traditionally used for millenia.

Prior to the introduction of the industrial seed oils, the Omega 3 to Omega 6 fat ratio was pretty close to 1:1 in the typical diet. Today it is closer to 1:15 Omega 3 to Omega 6.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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Genuinely pray it is safe in the long run. Lots of good people on it and it appears to be helping them. I'm just more skeptical of big pharma and popular new medications now more than ever...especially ones that cut corners and promise quick results.

Hopefully most people are motivated by the results and it drives them to the gym, to go for runs. That is where the true physical and mental rewards come from. Have a feeling most people are going to just keep doing the same.

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I'd hope they also use proper exercise and diet for losing weight as well, but at the end of the day, if that's losing weight and are being less of a strain in so many areas, what should it matter how they're doing it?

Also, the, "how do we know if it's safe" question isn't quite as effective when years and years start passing by and everyone taking isn't dropping dead.

If it works for them, good for them. It's no skin off my teeth.

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It's still new right? Do we have years and years of data in terms of real world use outside of testing? So far, I have heard of a few family friends and friends of friends who seem to have had stomach or digestive issues.

It is very likely a good thing overall....sounds like it. But the jury is still out in terms of long term effects imo.

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The stomach issues are told to people by their doctors. The people I know that take the shot are annoyed by the stomach issue side effects, but they still keep taking it because the weight loss is worth it to them.

As for long term, see kud docs response to one of mine on the previous page.

5'11".

That's the sad part. You will find that you don't have to work out as much and you'll still keep the weight off. Having said that I'm also certain of the 15-18 lbs I lost, came 3-5 lbs of muscle.

I fully appreciate that for some, morbidly obese people, they need to get on this and lose weight. The health risks of being obese outweigh the risks of this drug.

For those suburban folks who just need to lose a few pounds, No. This is a bad idea in the long term.

Learning to manipulate calories to support weight loss (or healthy weight gain) along with a moderate exercise program is an important life skill that should be learned.

Messing with the GI track really isn't the best of ideas unless you have to.

If someone is taking these drugs and not getting enough protein or stimulating skeletal muscle by some kind of weight training then they will almost certainly lose muscle along with the fat.

Lol. I've known people that said "I don't trust big pharma and I'm not taking the vax." I agreed with them, but now they are injecting themselves because they can't stop eating.

I'm sure this is going to turn out just fine. I mean if we've learned anything in life, it's that good things come easily and without any costs or unintended consequences.

It's the new marijuana hyperemesis syndrome. The cause is clear but the patient doesn't want to hear it.

Worth it. When you get to my age and two kids, there is a certain amount of fat that is just impossible to lose.

The angry skinny people in this thread were highly entertaining!

OldAg92 said:

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agdoc2001 said:

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Tramp96 said:

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But is it sustainable?

Even if there are no long-term side effects (and you know there will be), is this a sustainable approach to weight loss?

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It isn't. Weight returns after discontinuing the drugs since the person has never been forced to make any lifestyle modifications. This is just the latest search for a miracle pill rather than exhibiting a modicum of self control.

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That is a very general "broad-strokes" take. I started on Wegovy a year ago and told my doctor on day 1 that the medication was NOT going to be a permanent plan. We mapped out a long-term strategy that included weightlifting, cardio, changes in diet, changes in sleep patterns, etc. I have followed that plan strictly, am off the medication completely and feel better than I ever have. Lost 60 lbs, built muscle, lost fat and am no longer on BP meds either. The medication does not have to be permanent, as long as you are willing to make appropriate lifestyle changes.

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Good for you! This is exactly how these medications should be used when they are. Unfortunately most don't share your drive or sense of personal responsibility.

Cutting carbs and some judicious intermittent fasting will do most of what these drugs can do.

But, the vast majority of people do not have the willpower to do either. Thus the drugs.

There's a lot of money to be made by making everyone a fat, sick, mindless consumer and then selling them the "cure".

I took an elderly to a sports medicine/ orthopedist last week for a shoulder issue and had to be in the waiting room for a full hour. The number of people who came hobbling in was amazing and all but two were morbidly obese. Not hard to notice what was probably the root of their problems.

My neighbor's sister died a couple weeks ago from some type of intestinal failure/infection. She was in her mid 40s. Doctors believe it was from her taking Ozympic. She was relatively healthy, perhaps slightly overweight before Ozympic but certainly not obese.

These things do not come without risk.

MediAg13 said:

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There has been an uptick of people coming to the ER due to vomiting and dehydration related to increased doses of these medications. They'll be on a lower dose that is well tolerated and with good results but when they go up on the dosing they develop gastroparesis. They tend to be very resistant to telling their doctor and reducing the dosage because they want to see faster results.

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Sharon Osborne (the wife of Ozzy) has been on a GLP-1 and looks gaunt.

she even discussed it and said that she is trying to PUT ON more weight now and it's impossible as the drugs messed up her body's ability to regulate weight.

Very few things in life comes without risk

guitarmann92 said:

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My neighbor's sister died a couple weeks ago from some type of intestinal failure/infection. She was in her mid 40s. Doctors believe it was from her taking Ozympic. She was relatively healthy, perhaps slightly overweight before Ozympic but certainly not obese.

These things do not come without risk.

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That's a bummer, but it certainly sounds strange statement from doctors. It'd be like me getting a steroid shot for allergies and I pass away from a blood infection.

Not sure they are related.

And doctors usually wouldn't make a definitive determination like that. Usually just leave that for a medical examiner.

One thing not discussed on this thread is genetics. There's a range of base metabolic rates - some people just need fewer calories. If you think about it, they are genetically superior - they didn't have to kill as many bears or scrounge as much vegetal matter to survive.

The issue is that society has a "normal" amount of calories to consume daily, and that is set to high for almost everyone. Think about what we see on TV, print ads, bill boards, etc - food, food, food. Even "three meals a day" is ridiculous, most adults don't need that. Couple in how much of our societal interactions are predicated upon consuming calories <cough>alcohol</cough>.

It's a tough thing, and most of those tilting their noses at those with "no discipline" are genetically lucky with higher metabolic rates.

That being said, there are plenty of fatties who far, far, far exceed their needed calories each dat.

Logos Stick said:

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Rip*91 said:

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Good. People are trying to lose weight and take better care of themselves.

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The jury is still out on taking better care of themselves.

These drugs paralyze the smooth intestinal muscles which causes atrophy. Could have severe negative long term effects if taken long enough.

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Nice. So 10 years from now we're possibly going to see 20% of the population or more with Celiac type symptoms.

This has trainwreck written all over it.

These meds have been out for almost 20 years now.

Rip*91 said:

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Good. People are trying to lose weight and take better care of themselves.

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No they aren't, you're lost. They're going to be f'd the hell up for the rest of their lives if they keep going down this path.

Most will be ****ed to hell remaining obese. The meds are just a lesser evil.

jrdaustin said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Rip*91 said:

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Good. People are trying to lose weight and take better care of themselves.

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The jury is still out on taking better care of themselves.

These drugs paralyze the smooth intestinal muscles which causes atrophy. Could have severe negative long term effects if taken long enough.

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Nice. So 10 years from now we're possibly going to see 20% of the population or more with Celiac type symptoms.

This has trainwreck written all over it.

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Celiac and gastoparesis have nothing to do with each other. Celiac is a mucosal allergic reaction to gluten.

You know.. you can also lose weight by eating healthy and exercising. It's crazy that people want to ALWAYS take the easiest road. Hard work is the most common allergen in this country.

Teslag said:

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Most will be ****ed to hell remaining obese. The meds are just a lesser evil.

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The problem is it's not just fat ppl using this ***** Lots of people abusing it for "aesthetic bennefit" with doctors and pharma cashing in on their ultimate demise.

Logos Stick said:

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Rip*91 said:

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Good. People are trying to lose weight and take better care of themselves.

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The jury is still out on taking better care of themselves.

These drugs paralyze the smooth intestinal muscles which causes atrophy. Could have severe negative long term effects if taken long enough.

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I directly know people with permanently paralyzed digestive systems from these drugs where they have to now take other drugs for life just to digest food.