"There Is No Climate Crisis"

75,870 Views | 905 Replies | Last: 6 days ago by nortex97
Definitely Not A Cop
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AG
etxag02 said:

GenericAggie said:

By definition, science is never settled. It's ever changing. this is the problem with the left.

Whenever they say, "the science is settled", I immediately know it's politically motivated.

What about when all the intelligent arguments have been exhausted and you are left with the pseudo-science arguments? That's where we are now. No respectable university teaches what most here believe. That includes TAMU.


Universities have been preaching about the benefits of socialism for nearly a century too. In spite of socialism killing more people than any other cause outside of heart disease in that time period. In spite of the repeaters failures economically. In spite of the human rights violations these governments have committed.


JFABNRGR
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FTA 2001 said:

I have a lack of critical thinking skills because I'm skeptical of 1,609 scientists?
Or because you have ignored a 14 Min video explaining a serious fallacy in the data while spending at least 1.5 hours on this thread requesting this exact type of information between your first and last post.

If I am wrong and you did watch it previously or hell even if you watch it now, we would enjoy your thoughts on it and you will have my sincerest apologies.
jrdaustin
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etxag02 said:

Someone needs to tell the university. Those poor kids are going to be corrupted.


Quote:

FACULTY STATEMENT ON CLIMATE CHANGE
The faculty of the Department of Atmospheric Sciences of Texas A&M University has extensive knowledge about the Earth's climate. As employees of a state university, it is our responsibility to offer our expertise on scientific issues that are important to the citizens of Texas, including whether and why the climate is changing.

Nice. Begin with an appeal to authority.... Ours. Because we're so smart.

We agree with the following conclusions based on current evidence:

1. The Earth's climate is warming, meaning that the temperatures of the lower atmosphere and ocean have been increasing over many decades. Average global surface air temperatures warmed by about 2F between 1880 and 2022.

2. Our best estimate is that humans are responsible for most or all of this warming. Natural factors, such as solar variability, unforced variability, or volcanic activity, have likely had little cumulative effect over this period.

A hypothesis. In their words, an estimate. But one supported by said appeal to authority rather than scientific evidence offered for review. Yet they advocate massive global policy changes resulting in massive cost and upheaval based on an admitted estimate. And Hunga Tonga-Hunga Ha'apai says "hi".

3. On our current trajectory, the increase in global average temperature this century will exceed the Paris Agreement's goal of staying well below 3.6F.

From the Paris Agreement Website:
The Paris Agreement is a legally binding international treaty on climate change. It was adopted by 196 Parties at the UN Climate Change Conference (COP21) in Paris, France, on 12 December 2015. It entered into force on 4 November 2016.

Its overarching goal is to hold "the increase in the global average temperature to well below 2C above pre-industrial levels" and pursue efforts "to limit the temperature increase to 1.5C above pre-industrial levels."

However, in recent years, world leaders have stressed the need to limit global warming to 1.5C by the end of this century.

That's because the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change indicates that crossing the 1.5C threshold risks unleashing far more severe climate change impacts, including more frequent and severe droughts, heatwaves and rainfall.
Continued increases of atmospheric and oceanic temperatures present the risk of serious challenges to human society and ecosystems. It is difficult to quantify such challenges, except to say that the potential magnitudes of impacts increase rapidly as the magnitude of global warming increases.

This statement was unanimously adopted by the faculty in February 2023. It is in effect until next IPCC report or until revised.

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change: http://www.ipcc.ch
The American Geophysical Union statement on climate change: https://www.agu.org/Share-and-Advocate/Share/Policymakers/Position-Statements/Position_Climate
The American Meteorological Society statement on climate change: https://www.ametsoc.org/index.cfm/ams/about-ams/ams-statements/statements-of-the-ams-in-force/climate-change1/

https://today.tamu.edu/2020/11/17/texas-am-joins-a-global-call-for-net-zero-emissions/
So, a group of Climate activists and Government Officials across the globe, Including the UN itself, set an arbitrary target of 1.5C above pre-industrial levels that the world MUST stay below, or risk,,,, something. And that 1.5C number becomes the basis of all the craziness we see about climate change.

Again, are we in a global warming period? Very likely. Should all humans be good stewards towards the enviromnent and operate in a sustainable manner? Absolutely! Will an increase of 1.5C result in a cataclysmic event? Unproven, and unlikely. Do humans have any control at all if in fact the earth is in a natural warming period? Unlikely. Is continuation of O&G production going to result in the destruction of the planet? HELL NO.

The faculty statement reinforces that the Paris Agreement, as well as UN position on climate change is based upon junk science at best, and is a simple global scam at worst, that allows those who wish to be emotionally attached to feel good science to think they're actually accomplishing something.
Kozmozag
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Obama said electricity prices necessarily have to go up to make alternative energy viable. We are all paying to cost for the green revolution nonsense.
Beat40
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Bag said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Hunga_Tonga%E2%80%93Hunga_Ha%CA%BBapai_eruption_and_tsunami

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/tonga-eruption-blasted-unprecedented-amount-of-water-into-stratosphere



been reading several articles that point to this event as the reason for the insane temps this summer.


Quote:

Tonga Eruption Blasted Unprecedented Amount of Water Into Stratosphere

The huge amount of water vapor hurled into the atmosphere, as detected by NASA's Microwave Limb Sounder, could end up temporarily warming Earth's surface.


The funny thing about the Hunga Tonga eruption is most scientists surmised it would lead to a cooling because of similar blasts that size in recent history doing so. It wasn't until the measurements they realized it would lead to warming - which all initial consensus was a warming of between 1 and 1.5 degrees C. Now, they've already updated calculations to say Hunga Tonga isn't having that much of an impact on warming.

One example of how hard it is to measure the impact of one stand-alone event for just a two year period, yet we're supposed to take the hundreds of other variables of the climate from the whole world and accurately say what is going to happen in the next 100 years, instill fear into our children that the world they are growing up in will be destroyed (so much so there are women refusing to have babies in the name of climate change), and enforce destructive solutions to the way people live?

And we wonder why there is an existential and mental crisis among the young people?

Does this make sense?
Aggie Apotheosis
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Kozmozag said:

Obama said electricity prices necessarily have to go up to make alternative energy viable. We are all paying to cost for the green revolution nonsense.

Renewables are saving Texas' butt right now and will continue to power more and more of our lives as we move on down the road.

States like Washington, Idaho, South Dakota etc... have very inexpensive electricity. What do they all have in common? The vast portion of their electricity comes from renewables.
Definitely Not A Cop
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Aggie Apotheosis said:

Kozmozag said:

Obama said electricity prices necessarily have to go up to make alternative energy viable. We are all paying to cost for the green revolution nonsense.

Renewables are saving Texas' butt right now and will continue to power more and more of our lives as we move on down the road.

States like Washington, Idaho, South Dakota etc... have very inexpensive electricity. What do they all have in common? The vast portion of their electricity comes from renewables.


How so?
StrickAggie06
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Against my better judgement, I'm going to attempt to educate you. To preface, I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering, a PhD in Genetics, and have experience in real world mathematical modeling, big data analytics, and advanced statistical analyses. My first publication in graduate school is the highest cited paper in my Columbia-graduated advisor's entire career.

1. Climate scientists aren't scientists. They are wannabe mathematicians that are bad at math, as climate science applicants have appallingly low average quantitative GRE scores that are inadequate for admission to hard science programs. Calling them scientists is an insult to REAL scientists.

2. The climate is a massively multivariate system akin in scale and complexity to the human body. Saying that we can accurately model the climate is like saying we can accurately model exactly how a person will age, quantitatively predict disease manifestation, or pre-determine the effect of a new drug or genetic change on the entire body. We have clinical trials for a reason.

3. The models used by climate science are derived from a number of different data sets, with vast differences in error variance. Combining the sets together creates a statistical nightmare with error tolerances so large that the model is essentially useless.

a. Satellite data is generally the most accurate, and is limited to less than 100 years of data.

b. Thermometer data is typically derived from airports, which has to be normalized on a time gradient because of the expansion of big cities and the heat island effect. This is rarely done in studies. In addition, there isn't a central starting point in time for creating a baseline global average, as airports were fewer in number early on and largely concentrated in North America and Europe. As a result, this data prior to maybe the 1960's (and possibly later) is going to have to either be extrapolated to other parts of the world based on other data sources (i.e. ice cores), or else missing crucial data points. Either way, a very significant amount of error tolerance is present in the set.

c. Water based temp data. There are 2 types - ship based ocean surface readings, and buoy based ocean subsurface readings. Surface data is widely accepted as unreliable due to a roughly 2 degree artificially inflated reading due to light reflection off the surface. Notoriously, buoy based data was removed from the NOAA report under Obama that was presented to the UN, as the initial results including it didn't fit the narrative.

d. Ice Cores. Horribly inaccurate with huge error variance. This variance also scales exponentially the further you go back in time. In addition, they are limited to areas near the poles, so they are a very poor indicator of historical average global temperatures. As they are the only source of somewhat historical data, they constitute a very very poor "control" to base a climate model on.

e. CO2 data. This comes from either weather balloons, which started somewhere in the mid last century, or ice cores which as noted above are horribly unreliable as a data set. As far as I'm aware, there hasn't even been a control study done to assess how accurate trapped CO2 readings are over time. That would require measuring CO2 in atmosphere at site of ice cores, and then taking an ice core sample every year to measure what is trapped in ice. You would need at least a 50 year study to even begin to validate ice cores as a reliable source for CO2 data, and really not even then since layers become compacted together when you are looking at anything beyond 100 years or so. Without that control study, there is no way to normalize the data to account for less than 100% CO2 capture. As a result, it will artificially look like CO2 is rising over time.

f. Size of Data Set. The Earth is hundreds of millions of years old, and we only have data that goes back at best about 10,000 years with any degree of usefulness. There are a few additional data points derived from geological records and older ice core data tied to known historical events (mass extinctions, eruption of Pompeii, etc), but there is no way to validate the accuracy of the readings and they are too far in between to build any sort of ancient data set. This is especially problematic because the Earth goes through sustained periods of heating and cooling as the axis wobbles. It is widely believed that we are actually near the peak in a warming cycle, but this is not properly reflected in the climate models. In addition, the Earth's magnetic poles shift on occasion, with far far more impact on the climate than man could ever dream of causing.

4. Even if all the data was 100% accurate, you still have to show that the climate change is man made.

a. Their only "proof" of this is to correlate temperature change to CO2/greenhouse gas level change. First, that correlation doesn't equal causation is a cornerstone of scientific research. Second, that correlation is heavily dependent on how the data is represented and sourced (ex: how average global Temps are calculated). The correlation could be supported by a series of site specific t-tests and correlations subsequently analyzed together in both One Way ANOVA and MANOVA (i.e. showing a statistically significant correlation independently at a variety of cities/locations), but to my knowledge this hasn't been done.

b. How do you accurately attribute how much is man made? You would need to be able to exactly calculate the amount of greenhouse gas produced by man vs nature, and there is simply no way currently to do this. Everything is based on a flawed aggregate of calculated estimates rife with more error variance (plant emissions, car emissions, cow farts, etc). In addition, these models have either done a poor job of modeling or else left out entirely the effect of volcanoes, solar flares, and sub-sea magma vents, which is a MASSIVE source of both heat and CO2.

5. Climate science has been so heavily politicized that the scientific method and ethics have been abandoned. There have been several examples of data tampering (most notably by the NOAA), and any academic that tries to publish a study that runs contrary to the established narrative is ostracized. The formerly well respected researcher at Georgia Tech comes to mind, in particular.

6. In conclusion, there simply isn't enough data to to build an accurate model of our climate or determine how much change is attributed to man. There is too much variance and too high of error tolerances to achieve statistically significant results. The models are built by highly politicized, unethical academics that aren't even good at math. I would be absolutely ashamed to attribute my name to any of these pseudoscience "studies".
Beat40
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Aggie Apotheosis said:

Kozmozag said:

Obama said electricity prices necessarily have to go up to make alternative energy viable. We are all paying to cost for the green revolution nonsense.

Renewables are saving Texas' butt right now and will continue to power more and more of our lives as we move on down the road.

States like Washington, Idaho, South Dakota etc... have very inexpensive electricity. What do they all have in common? The vast portion of their electricity comes from renewables.
I am of the opinion we should use it all - renewables, nuclear, fossil fuels - as a portfolio based on locaiton to maximize energy efficiency. Anyone saying no more fossil fuels isn't being realistic, just like anyone saying no renewables isn't being realistic.

The only thing about the bolded is I question how efficient that will be. I don't think it will ever get above 50%.

We should all be pushing for more nuclear.
ShinerAggie
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AG
Well done! Very succinct.

Quote:

The formerly well respected researcher at Georgia Tech comes to mind, in particular.
And, speaking of her:

Judith Curry: How Climate "Science" Got Hijacked by Alarmists
________________________________________________________ "Citizens are deceived en masse but enlightened one at a time."
jja79
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AG
You lost me there as you might have lots of us but that's the most reasonable discussion of this I've read.
etxag02
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JFABNRGR said:

FTA 2001 said:

I have a lack of critical thinking skills because I'm skeptical of 1,609 scientists?
Or because you have ignored a 14 Min video explaining a serious fallacy in the data while spending at least 1.5 hours on this thread requesting this exact type of information between your first and last post.

If I am wrong and you did watch it previously or hell even if you watch it now, we would enjoy your thoughts on it and you will have my sincerest apologies.
FYI, Watt's concerns were addressed a decade ago. The NOAA studied his findings and concluded in 2010 that any bias had been nearly eliminated by their models and any bias in stations that were considered poorly situated were in the opposite direction of what Watts expected, slightly cooler. There have also been other studies that found minimal long-term effects from the placement problems.
etxag02
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https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2943/study-confirms-climate-models-are-getting-future-warming-projections-right/
American Hardwood
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jrdaustin said:

etxag02 said:

Someone needs to tell the university. Those poor kids are going to be corrupted.


Quote:

FACULTY STATEMENT ON CLIMATE CHANGE
The faculty of the Department of Atmospheric Sciences of Texas A&M University has extensive knowledge about the Earth's climate. As employees of a state university, it is our responsibility to offer our expertise on scientific issues that are important to the citizens of Texas, including whether and why the climate is changing.

Nice. Begin with an appeal to authority.... Ours. Because we're so smart.

We agree with the following conclusions based on current evidence:

1. The Earth's climate is warming, meaning that the temperatures of the lower atmosphere and ocean have been increasing over many decades. Average global surface air temperatures warmed by about 2F between 1880 and 2022.

2. Our best estimate is that humans are responsible for most or all of this warming. Natural factors, such as solar variability, unforced variability, or volcanic activity, have likely had little cumulative effect over this period.

A hypothesis. In their words, an estimate. But one supported by said appeal to authority rather than scientific evidence offered for review. Yet they advocate massive global policy changes resulting in massive cost and upheaval based on an admitted estimate. And Hunga Tonga-Hunga Ha'apai says "hi".

3. On our current trajectory, the increase in global average temperature this century will exceed the Paris Agreement's goal of staying well below 3.6F.

From the Paris Agreement Website:
The Paris Agreement is a legally binding international treaty on climate change. It was adopted by 196 Parties at the UN Climate Change Conference (COP21) in Paris, France, on 12 December 2015. It entered into force on 4 November 2016.

Its overarching goal is to hold "the increase in the global average temperature to well below 2C above pre-industrial levels" and pursue efforts "to limit the temperature increase to 1.5C above pre-industrial levels."

However, in recent years, world leaders have stressed the need to limit global warming to 1.5C by the end of this century.

That's because the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change indicates that crossing the 1.5C threshold risks unleashing far more severe climate change impacts, including more frequent and severe droughts, heatwaves and rainfall.
Continued increases of atmospheric and oceanic temperatures present the risk of serious challenges to human society and ecosystems. It is difficult to quantify such challenges, except to say that the potential magnitudes of impacts increase rapidly as the magnitude of global warming increases.

This statement was unanimously adopted by the faculty in February 2023. It is in effect until next IPCC report or until revised.

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change: http://www.ipcc.ch
The American Geophysical Union statement on climate change: https://www.agu.org/Share-and-Advocate/Share/Policymakers/Position-Statements/Position_Climate
The American Meteorological Society statement on climate change: https://www.ametsoc.org/index.cfm/ams/about-ams/ams-statements/statements-of-the-ams-in-force/climate-change1/

https://today.tamu.edu/2020/11/17/texas-am-joins-a-global-call-for-net-zero-emissions/
So, a group of Climate activists and Government Officials across the globe, Including the UN itself, set an arbitrary target of 1.5C above pre-industrial levels that the world MUST stay below, or risk,,,, something. And that 1.5C number becomes the basis of all the craziness we see about climate change.

Again, are we in a global warming period? Very likely. Should all humans be good stewards towards the enviromnent and operate in a sustainable manner? Absolutely! Will an increase of 1.5C result in a cataclysmic event? Unproven, and unlikely. Do humans have any control at all if in fact the earth is in a natural warming period? Unlikely. Is continuation of O&G production going to result in the destruction of the planet? HELL NO.

The faculty statement reinforces that the Paris Agreement, as well as UN position on climate change is based upon junk science at best, and is a simple global scam at worst, that allows those who wish to be emotionally attached to feel good science to think they're actually accomplishing something.
If the UN is so super serious about this goal why are they trying to squeeze blood from a turnip in the US and not doing something about China and India? I have yet to see any blue helmets storming Chinese factories and dirty power plants to shut them down (figuratively speaking).
Rockdoc
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AG
Political. No man made climate change. Sorry.
dreyOO
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Another manufactured crisis from the party that "doesn't let a crisis go to waste"? Color me surprised
American Hardwood
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AG
Dr. Thomas Lindsay Blanton, PhD is that you?
rgag12
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Rockdoc said:

Political. No man made climate change. Sorry.


All the other warming and cooling periods our earth has gone through, both protracted and sudden, man made! We are the root of all evil!

Earth's axis? The sun???? They mean nothing!
agent-maroon
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one safe place said:

FTA 2001 said:

Can anyone provide a strong enough argument that would convince me that these 1,600 scientists know better than the groups and organizations below, who represent many many more than 1,600 scientists?

https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

Quote:

American Association for the Advancement of Science

"Based on well-established evidence, about 97% of climate scientists have concluded that human-caused climate change is happening." (2014)

http://whatweknow.aaas.org/get-the-facts/
Quote:

American Chemical Society

"The Earth's climate is changing in response to increasing concentrations of greenhouse gases (GHGs) and particulate matter in the atmosphere, largely as the result of human activities." (2016-2019)

https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/policy/publicpolicies/sustainability/globalclimatechange.html
Quote:

American Geophysical Union

"Based on extensive scientific evidence, it is extremely likely that human activities, especially emissions of greenhouse gases, are the dominant cause of the observed warming since the mid-20th century. There is no alterative explanation supported by convincing evidence." (2019)

https://www.agu.org/Share-and-Advocate/Share/Policymakers/Position-Statements/Position_Climate
Quote:

American Medical Association

"Our AMA ... supports the findings of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's fourth assessment report and concurs with the scientific consensus that the Earth is undergoing adverse global climate change and that anthropogenic contributions are significant." (2019)

https://policysearch.ama-assn.org/policyfinder/detail/climate%20change?uri=%2FAMADoc%2FHOD.xml-0-309.xml
Quote:

American Meteorological Society

"Research has found a human influence on the climate of the past several decades ... The IPCC (2013), USGCRP (2017), and USGCRP (2018) indicate that it is extremely likely that human influence has been the dominant cause of the observed warming since the mid-twentieth century." (2019)

https://www.ametsoc.org/index.cfm/ams/about-ams/ams-statements/statements-of-the-ams-in-force/climate-change1/

Quote:

American Physical Society

"Earth's changing climate is a critical issue and poses the risk of significant environmental, social and economic disruptions around the globe. While natural sources of climate variability are significant, multiple lines of evidence indicate that human influences have had an increasingly dominant effect on global climate warming observed since the mid-twentieth century." (2015)

https://www.aps.org/newsroom/pressreleases/climate.cfm
Quote:

The Geological Society of America

"The Geological Society of America (GSA) concurs with assessments by the National Academies of Science (2005), the National Research Council (2011), the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC, 2013) and the U.S. Global Change Research Program (Melillo et al., 2014) that global climate has warmed in response to increasing concentrations of carbon dioxide (CO2) and other greenhouse gases ... Human activities (mainly greenhouse-gas emissions) are the dominant cause of the rapid warming since the middle 1900s (IPCC, 2013)." (2015)

https://www.geosociety.org/gsa/positions/position10.aspx

Quote:

U.S. National Academy of Sciences

"Scientists have known for some time, from multiple lines of evidence, that humans are changing Earth's climate, primarily through greenhouse gas emissions."

https://sites.nationalacademies.org/cs/groups/internationalsite/documents/webpage/international_080877.pdf

Quote:

U.S. Global Change Research Program

"Earth's climate is now changing faster than at any point in the history of modern civilization, primarily as a result of human activities." (2018, 13 U.S. government departments and agencies)

https://nca2018.globalchange.gov/
Quote:

Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change

"It is unequivocal that the increase of CO2, methane, and nitrous oxide in the atmosphere over the industrial era is the result of human activities and that human influence is the principal driver of many changes observed across the atmosphere, ocean, cryosphere, and biosphere.

"Since systematic scientific assessments began in the 1970s, the influence of human activity on the warming of the climate system has evolved from theory to established fact."

https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/wg3/

American Medical Association? Got a link to Sal's Thursday Night Bowling League?

AMA?

lol... which side was he arguing for again? They don't even enjoy a consensus about medical issues with the minority fraction of physicians who actually joined their organization.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
747Ag
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AG
StrickAggie06 said:

Against my better judgement, I'm going to attempt to educate you. To preface, I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering, a PhD in Genetics, and have experience in real world mathematical modeling, big data analytics, and advanced statistical analyses. My first publication in graduate school is the highest cited paper in my Columbia-graduated advisor's entire career.

1. Climate scientists aren't scientists. They are wannabe mathematicians that are bad at math, as climate science applicants have appallingly low average quantitative GRE scores that are inadequate for admission to hard science programs. Calling them scientists is an insult to REAL scientists.

2. The climate is a massively multivariate system akin in scale and complexity to the human body. Saying that we can accurately model the climate is like saying we can accurately model exactly how a person will age, quantitatively predict disease manifestation, or pre-determine the effect of a new drug or genetic change on the entire body. We have clinical trials for a reason.

3. The models used by climate science are derived from a number of different data sets, with vast differences in error variance. Combining the sets together creates a statistical nightmare with error tolerances so large that the model is essentially useless.

a. Satellite data is generally the most accurate, and is limited to less than 100 years of data.

b. Thermometer data is typically derived from airports, which has to be normalized on a time gradient because of the expansion of big cities and the heat island effect. This is rarely done in studies. In addition, there isn't a central starting point in time for creating a baseline global average, as airports were fewer in number early on and largely concentrated in North America and Europe. As a result, this data prior to maybe the 1960's (and possibly later) is going to have to either be extrapolated to other parts of the world based on other data sources (i.e. ice cores), or else missing crucial data points. Either way, a very significant amount of error tolerance is present in the set.

c. Water based temp data. There are 2 types - ship based ocean surface readings, and buoy based ocean subsurface readings. Surface data is widely accepted as unreliable due to a roughly 2 degree artificially inflated reading due to light reflection off the surface. Notoriously, buoy based data was removed from the NOAA report under Obama that was presented to the UN, as the initial results including it didn't fit the narrative.

d. Ice Cores. Horribly inaccurate with huge error variance. This variance also scales exponentially the further you go back in time. In addition, they are limited to areas near the poles, so they are a very poor indicator of historical average global temperatures. As they are the only source of somewhat historical data, they constitute a very very poor "control" to base a climate model on.

e. CO2 data. This comes from either weather balloons, which started somewhere in the mid last century, or ice cores which as noted above are horribly unreliable as a data set. As far as I'm aware, there hasn't even been a control study done to assess how accurate trapped CO2 readings are over time. That would require measuring CO2 in atmosphere at site of ice cores, and then taking an ice core sample every year to measure what is trapped in ice. You would need at least a 50 year study to even begin to validate ice cores as a reliable source for CO2 data, and really not even then since layers become compacted together when you are looking at anything beyond 100 years or so. Without that control study, there is no way to normalize the data to account for less than 100% CO2 capture. As a result, it will artificially look like CO2 is rising over time.

f. Size of Data Set. The Earth is hundreds of millions of years old, and we only have data that goes back at best about 10,000 years with any degree of usefulness. There are a few additional data points derived from geological records and older ice core data tied to known historical events (mass extinctions, eruption of Pompeii, etc), but there is no way to validate the accuracy of the readings and they are too far in between to build any sort of ancient data set. This is especially problematic because the Earth goes through sustained periods of heating and cooling as the axis wobbles. It is widely believed that we are actually near the peak in a warming cycle, but this is not properly reflected in the climate models. In addition, the Earth's magnetic poles shift on occasion, with far far more impact on the climate than man could ever dream of causing.

4. Even if all the data was 100% accurate, you still have to show that the climate change is man made.

a. Their only "proof" of this is to correlate temperature change to CO2/greenhouse gas level change. First, that correlation doesn't equal causation is a cornerstone of scientific research. Second, that correlation is heavily dependent on how the data is represented and sourced (ex: how average global Temps are calculated). The correlation could be supported by a series of site specific t-tests and correlations subsequently analyzed together in both One Way ANOVA and MANOVA (i.e. showing a statistically significant correlation independently at a variety of cities/locations), but to my knowledge this hasn't been done.

b. How do you accurately attribute how much is man made? You would need to be able to exactly calculate the amount of greenhouse gas produced by man vs nature, and there is simply no way currently to do this. Everything is based on a flawed aggregate of calculated estimates rife with more error variance (plant emissions, car emissions, cow farts, etc). In addition, these models have either done a poor job of modeling or else left out entirely the effect of volcanoes, solar flares, and sub-sea magma vents, which is a MASSIVE source of both heat and CO2.

5. Climate science has been so heavily politicized that the scientific method and ethics have been abandoned. There have been several examples of data tampering (most notably by the NOAA), and any academic that tries to publish a study that runs contrary to the established narrative is ostracized. The formerly well respected researcher at Georgia Tech comes to mind, in particular.

6. In conclusion, there simply isn't enough data to to build an accurate model of our climate or determine how much change is attributed to man. There is too much variance and too high of error tolerances to achieve statistically significant results. The models are built by highly politicized, unethical academics that aren't even good at math. I would be absolutely ashamed to attribute my name to any of these pseudoscience "studies".
Monty Python agrees... it's only a model. Bonus quote... 'tis a silly place.

Also... How to Lie With Statistics. (... or Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics)
StrickAggie06
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AG
ShinerAggie said:

Well done! Very succinct.

Quote:

The formerly well respected researcher at Georgia Tech comes to mind, in particular.
And, speaking of her:

Judith Curry: How Climate "Science" Got Hijacked by Alarmists

Thanks, and I couldn't remember her name for the life of me, so glad you added it.

I'm just glad people are actually reading my gigantic wall of text lol. Usually when I feel compelled to write a detailed response to stuff like this people ignore it.
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Haha it is not. I was a former student of the great Biobioprof, however.
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Aggie Apotheosis said:

Kozmozag said:

Obama said electricity prices necessarily have to go up to make alternative energy viable. We are all paying to cost for the green revolution nonsense.

Renewables are saving Texas' butt right now and will continue to power more and more of our lives as we move on down the road.

States like Washington, Idaho, South Dakota etc... have very inexpensive electricity. What do they all have in common? The vast portion of their electricity comes from renewables.
You mean hydroelectric and natural gas for WA (over 70% of power generation)? Coal accounting for 55% of power generation for South Dakota. Hydroelectric (51% of power generation) for Idaho.
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StrickAggie06 said:

Haha it is not. I was a former student of the great Biobioprof, however.
Damn, I miss biobioprof; RIP.
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StrickAggie06 said:

Against my better judgement, I'm going to attempt to educate you. To preface, I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering, a PhD in Genetics, and have experience in real world mathematical modeling, big data analytics, and advanced statistical analyses. My first publication in graduate school is the highest cited paper in my Columbia-graduated advisor's entire career.

1. Climate scientists aren't scientists. They are wannabe mathematicians that are bad at math, as climate science applicants have appallingly low average quantitative GRE scores that are inadequate for admission to hard science programs. Calling them scientists is an insult to REAL scientists.

2. The climate is a massively multivariate system akin in scale and complexity to the human body. Saying that we can accurately model the climate is like saying we can accurately model exactly how a person will age, quantitatively predict disease manifestation, or pre-determine the effect of a new drug or genetic change on the entire body. We have clinical trials for a reason.

3. The models used by climate science are derived from a number of different data sets, with vast differences in error variance. Combining the sets together creates a statistical nightmare with error tolerances so large that the model is essentially useless.

a. Satellite data is generally the most accurate, and is limited to less than 100 years of data.

b. Thermometer data is typically derived from airports, which has to be normalized on a time gradient because of the expansion of big cities and the heat island effect. This is rarely done in studies. In addition, there isn't a central starting point in time for creating a baseline global average, as airports were fewer in number early on and largely concentrated in North America and Europe. As a result, this data prior to maybe the 1960's (and possibly later) is going to have to either be extrapolated to other parts of the world based on other data sources (i.e. ice cores), or else missing crucial data points. Either way, a very significant amount of error tolerance is present in the set.

c. Water based temp data. There are 2 types - ship based ocean surface readings, and buoy based ocean subsurface readings. Surface data is widely accepted as unreliable due to a roughly 2 degree artificially inflated reading due to light reflection off the surface. Notoriously, buoy based data was removed from the NOAA report under Obama that was presented to the UN, as the initial results including it didn't fit the narrative.

d. Ice Cores. Horribly inaccurate with huge error variance. This variance also scales exponentially the further you go back in time. In addition, they are limited to areas near the poles, so they are a very poor indicator of historical average global temperatures. As they are the only source of somewhat historical data, they constitute a very very poor "control" to base a climate model on.

e. CO2 data. This comes from either weather balloons, which started somewhere in the mid last century, or ice cores which as noted above are horribly unreliable as a data set. As far as I'm aware, there hasn't even been a control study done to assess how accurate trapped CO2 readings are over time. That would require measuring CO2 in atmosphere at site of ice cores, and then taking an ice core sample every year to measure what is trapped in ice. You would need at least a 50 year study to even begin to validate ice cores as a reliable source for CO2 data, and really not even then since layers become compacted together when you are looking at anything beyond 100 years or so. Without that control study, there is no way to normalize the data to account for less than 100% CO2 capture. As a result, it will artificially look like CO2 is rising over time.

f. Size of Data Set. The Earth is hundreds of millions of years old, and we only have data that goes back at best about 10,000 years with any degree of usefulness. There are a few additional data points derived from geological records and older ice core data tied to known historical events (mass extinctions, eruption of Pompeii, etc), but there is no way to validate the accuracy of the readings and they are too far in between to build any sort of ancient data set. This is especially problematic because the Earth goes through sustained periods of heating and cooling as the axis wobbles. It is widely believed that we are actually near the peak in a warming cycle, but this is not properly reflected in the climate models. In addition, the Earth's magnetic poles shift on occasion, with far far more impact on the climate than man could ever dream of causing.

4. Even if all the data was 100% accurate, you still have to show that the climate change is man made.

a. Their only "proof" of this is to correlate temperature change to CO2/greenhouse gas level change. First, that correlation doesn't equal causation is a cornerstone of scientific research. Second, that correlation is heavily dependent on how the data is represented and sourced (ex: how average global Temps are calculated). The correlation could be supported by a series of site specific t-tests and correlations subsequently analyzed together in both One Way ANOVA and MANOVA (i.e. showing a statistically significant correlation independently at a variety of cities/locations), but to my knowledge this hasn't been done.

b. How do you accurately attribute how much is man made? You would need to be able to exactly calculate the amount of greenhouse gas produced by man vs nature, and there is simply no way currently to do this. Everything is based on a flawed aggregate of calculated estimates rife with more error variance (plant emissions, car emissions, cow farts, etc). In addition, these models have either done a poor job of modeling or else left out entirely the effect of volcanoes, solar flares, and sub-sea magma vents, which is a MASSIVE source of both heat and CO2.

5. Climate science has been so heavily politicized that the scientific method and ethics have been abandoned. There have been several examples of data tampering (most notably by the NOAA), and any academic that tries to publish a study that runs contrary to the established narrative is ostracized. The formerly well respected researcher at Georgia Tech comes to mind, in particular.

6. In conclusion, there simply isn't enough data to to build an accurate model of our climate or determine how much change is attributed to man. There is too much variance and too high of error tolerances to achieve statistically significant results. The models are built by highly politicized, unethical academics that aren't even good at math. I would be absolutely ashamed to attribute my name to any of these pseudoscience "studies".

Person Not Capable of Pregnancy
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etxag02 said:

https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2943/study-confirms-climate-models-are-getting-future-warming-projections-right/
Nasa website.

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Ag87H2O
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StrickAggie06 said:

Against my better judgement, I'm going to attempt to educate you. To preface, I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering, a PhD in Genetics, and have experience in real world mathematical modeling, big data analytics, and advanced statistical analyses. My first publication in graduate school is the highest cited paper in my Columbia-graduated advisor's entire career.

1. Climate scientists aren't scientists. They are wannabe mathematicians that are bad at math, as climate science applicants have appallingly low average quantitative GRE scores that are inadequate for admission to hard science programs. Calling them scientists is an insult to REAL scientists.

2. The climate is a massively multivariate system akin in scale and complexity to the human body. Saying that we can accurately model the climate is like saying we can accurately model exactly how a person will age, quantitatively predict disease manifestation, or pre-determine the effect of a new drug or genetic change on the entire body. We have clinical trials for a reason.

3. The models used by climate science are derived from a number of different data sets, with vast differences in error variance. Combining the sets together creates a statistical nightmare with error tolerances so large that the model is essentially useless.

a. Satellite data is generally the most accurate, and is limited to less than 100 years of data.

b. Thermometer data is typically derived from airports, which has to be normalized on a time gradient because of the expansion of big cities and the heat island effect. This is rarely done in studies. In addition, there isn't a central starting point in time for creating a baseline global average, as airports were fewer in number early on and largely concentrated in North America and Europe. As a result, this data prior to maybe the 1960's (and possibly later) is going to have to either be extrapolated to other parts of the world based on other data sources (i.e. ice cores), or else missing crucial data points. Either way, a very significant amount of error tolerance is present in the set.

c. Water based temp data. There are 2 types - ship based ocean surface readings, and buoy based ocean subsurface readings. Surface data is widely accepted as unreliable due to a roughly 2 degree artificially inflated reading due to light reflection off the surface. Notoriously, buoy based data was removed from the NOAA report under Obama that was presented to the UN, as the initial results including it didn't fit the narrative.

d. Ice Cores. Horribly inaccurate with huge error variance. This variance also scales exponentially the further you go back in time. In addition, they are limited to areas near the poles, so they are a very poor indicator of historical average global temperatures. As they are the only source of somewhat historical data, they constitute a very very poor "control" to base a climate model on.

e. CO2 data. This comes from either weather balloons, which started somewhere in the mid last century, or ice cores which as noted above are horribly unreliable as a data set. As far as I'm aware, there hasn't even been a control study done to assess how accurate trapped CO2 readings are over time. That would require measuring CO2 in atmosphere at site of ice cores, and then taking an ice core sample every year to measure what is trapped in ice. You would need at least a 50 year study to even begin to validate ice cores as a reliable source for CO2 data, and really not even then since layers become compacted together when you are looking at anything beyond 100 years or so. Without that control study, there is no way to normalize the data to account for less than 100% CO2 capture. As a result, it will artificially look like CO2 is rising over time.

f. Size of Data Set. The Earth is hundreds of millions of years old, and we only have data that goes back at best about 10,000 years with any degree of usefulness. There are a few additional data points derived from geological records and older ice core data tied to known historical events (mass extinctions, eruption of Pompeii, etc), but there is no way to validate the accuracy of the readings and they are too far in between to build any sort of ancient data set. This is especially problematic because the Earth goes through sustained periods of heating and cooling as the axis wobbles. It is widely believed that we are actually near the peak in a warming cycle, but this is not properly reflected in the climate models. In addition, the Earth's magnetic poles shift on occasion, with far far more impact on the climate than man could ever dream of causing.

4. Even if all the data was 100% accurate, you still have to show that the climate change is man made.

a. Their only "proof" of this is to correlate temperature change to CO2/greenhouse gas level change. First, that correlation doesn't equal causation is a cornerstone of scientific research. Second, that correlation is heavily dependent on how the data is represented and sourced (ex: how average global Temps are calculated). The correlation could be supported by a series of site specific t-tests and correlations subsequently analyzed together in both One Way ANOVA and MANOVA (i.e. showing a statistically significant correlation independently at a variety of cities/locations), but to my knowledge this hasn't been done.

b. How do you accurately attribute how much is man made? You would need to be able to exactly calculate the amount of greenhouse gas produced by man vs nature, and there is simply no way currently to do this. Everything is based on a flawed aggregate of calculated estimates rife with more error variance (plant emissions, car emissions, cow farts, etc). In addition, these models have either done a poor job of modeling or else left out entirely the effect of volcanoes, solar flares, and sub-sea magma vents, which is a MASSIVE source of both heat and CO2.

5. Climate science has been so heavily politicized that the scientific method and ethics have been abandoned. There have been several examples of data tampering (most notably by the NOAA), and any academic that tries to publish a study that runs contrary to the established narrative is ostracized. The formerly well respected researcher at Georgia Tech comes to mind, in particular.

6. In conclusion, there simply isn't enough data to to build an accurate model of our climate or determine how much change is attributed to man. There is too much variance and too high of error tolerances to achieve statistically significant results. The models are built by highly politicized, unethical academics that aren't even good at math. I would be absolutely ashamed to attribute my name to any of these pseudoscience "studies".
This is a fantastic post. Sadly, it will be lost on all the climate zealots because truth and facts don't match their narrative.
captkirk
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FTA 2001 said:

fixer said:

1609 political hacktivists with science degrees.
My original post was asking why I should believe the 1,609 scientists over the many many more scientist who came to opposite conclusions.
Here is a few more

http://www.petitionproject.org/
StrickAggie06
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etxag02 said:

https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2943/study-confirms-climate-models-are-getting-future-warming-projections-right/

Do you have a link to the actual published paper? The conclusions stated in the article are useless without digging into the exact methodology and composition of the data set. For example, it's all horse**** if the data, models, and observations being evaluated include sea surface Temps and not buoy data.

It's very easy to make observations match a data model if you really want them to. Again, NOAA did exactly that in the UN report. And that's a really big part of the problem now; they've made it impossible to trust these types of claims from government sources without full transparency.
etxag02
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https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2019GL085378
oh no
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StrickAggie06 said:

Against my better judgement, I'm going to attempt to educate you. To preface, I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering, a PhD in Genetics, and have experience in real world mathematical modeling, big data analytics, and advanced statistical analyses. My first publication in graduate school is the highest cited paper in my Columbia-graduated advisor's entire career.

1. Climate scientists aren't scientists. They are wannabe mathematicians that are bad at math, as climate science applicants have appallingly low average quantitative GRE scores that are inadequate for admission to hard science programs. Calling them scientists is an insult to REAL scientists.

2. The climate is a massively multivariate system akin in scale and complexity to the human body. Saying that we can accurately model the climate is like saying we can accurately model exactly how a person will age, quantitatively predict disease manifestation, or pre-determine the effect of a new drug or genetic change on the entire body. We have clinical trials for a reason.

3. The models used by climate science are derived from a number of different data sets, with vast differences in error variance. Combining the sets together creates a statistical nightmare with error tolerances so large that the model is essentially useless.

a. Satellite data is generally the most accurate, and is limited to less than 100 years of data.

b. Thermometer data is typically derived from airports, which has to be normalized on a time gradient because of the expansion of big cities and the heat island effect. This is rarely done in studies. In addition, there isn't a central starting point in time for creating a baseline global average, as airports were fewer in number early on and largely concentrated in North America and Europe. As a result, this data prior to maybe the 1960's (and possibly later) is going to have to either be extrapolated to other parts of the world based on other data sources (i.e. ice cores), or else missing crucial data points. Either way, a very significant amount of error tolerance is present in the set.

c. Water based temp data. There are 2 types - ship based ocean surface readings, and buoy based ocean subsurface readings. Surface data is widely accepted as unreliable due to a roughly 2 degree artificially inflated reading due to light reflection off the surface. Notoriously, buoy based data was removed from the NOAA report under Obama that was presented to the UN, as the initial results including it didn't fit the narrative.

d. Ice Cores. Horribly inaccurate with huge error variance. This variance also scales exponentially the further you go back in time. In addition, they are limited to areas near the poles, so they are a very poor indicator of historical average global temperatures. As they are the only source of somewhat historical data, they constitute a very very poor "control" to base a climate model on.

e. CO2 data. This comes from either weather balloons, which started somewhere in the mid last century, or ice cores which as noted above are horribly unreliable as a data set. As far as I'm aware, there hasn't even been a control study done to assess how accurate trapped CO2 readings are over time. That would require measuring CO2 in atmosphere at site of ice cores, and then taking an ice core sample every year to measure what is trapped in ice. You would need at least a 50 year study to even begin to validate ice cores as a reliable source for CO2 data, and really not even then since layers become compacted together when you are looking at anything beyond 100 years or so. Without that control study, there is no way to normalize the data to account for less than 100% CO2 capture. As a result, it will artificially look like CO2 is rising over time.

f. Size of Data Set. The Earth is hundreds of millions of years old, and we only have data that goes back at best about 10,000 years with any degree of usefulness. There are a few additional data points derived from geological records and older ice core data tied to known historical events (mass extinctions, eruption of Pompeii, etc), but there is no way to validate the accuracy of the readings and they are too far in between to build any sort of ancient data set. This is especially problematic because the Earth goes through sustained periods of heating and cooling as the axis wobbles. It is widely believed that we are actually near the peak in a warming cycle, but this is not properly reflected in the climate models. In addition, the Earth's magnetic poles shift on occasion, with far far more impact on the climate than man could ever dream of causing.

4. Even if all the data was 100% accurate, you still have to show that the climate change is man made.

a. Their only "proof" of this is to correlate temperature change to CO2/greenhouse gas level change. First, that correlation doesn't equal causation is a cornerstone of scientific research. Second, that correlation is heavily dependent on how the data is represented and sourced (ex: how average global Temps are calculated). The correlation could be supported by a series of site specific t-tests and correlations subsequently analyzed together in both One Way ANOVA and MANOVA (i.e. showing a statistically significant correlation independently at a variety of cities/locations), but to my knowledge this hasn't been done.

b. How do you accurately attribute how much is man made? You would need to be able to exactly calculate the amount of greenhouse gas produced by man vs nature, and there is simply no way currently to do this. Everything is based on a flawed aggregate of calculated estimates rife with more error variance (plant emissions, car emissions, cow farts, etc). In addition, these models have either done a poor job of modeling or else left out entirely the effect of volcanoes, solar flares, and sub-sea magma vents, which is a MASSIVE source of both heat and CO2.

5. Climate science has been so heavily politicized that the scientific method and ethics have been abandoned. There have been several examples of data tampering (most notably by the NOAA), and any academic that tries to publish a study that runs contrary to the established narrative is ostracized. The formerly well respected researcher at Georgia Tech comes to mind, in particular.

6. In conclusion, there simply isn't enough data to to build an accurate model of our climate or determine how much change is attributed to man. There is too much variance and too high of error tolerances to achieve statistically significant results. The models are built by highly politicized, unethical academics that aren't even good at math. I would be absolutely ashamed to attribute my name to any of these pseudoscience "studies".
Leading expert disagrees with everything you just said:
YouBet
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BoydCrowder13 said:

I get the knee jerk push back against anything liberals support but I do think conservatives have let themselves be painted into a corner as not caring about the planet. See some responses here.

It is okay to admit that as the human population has grown exponentially in the last hundred years, that:

-there has been massive deforestation
-many species have been driven to extinction (either through hunting or deforestation)
-there does seem to be an increase in natural disasters (major hurricanes, forest fires, etc) over the last 20 years
-smog is awful in many cities around the globe (Mexico City and Beijing come to mind)
-more rivers are going dry and creating water issues in different areas

Now some of these are clearly manmade and some may not be.

Republicans shouldn't have a platform of ignoring it. That doesn't win over voters. They should present a common sense plan to address it:

-Push for nuclear energy and natural gas
-push to preserve national parks and efforts to plant new trees
-support for some renewable technologies as it clearly will have a place in the economy in the next 50 years without sacrificing the oil and gas industry
-work with energy companies on new technologies like carbon capture

It doesn't have to be the Green New Deal or nothing. We do live on this planet. There are 8 billion of us and left unchecked we clearly could do some damage.
Agree with you. The problem is that there is no middle ground that is allowed to be discussed on this topic.

The original movement has been hijacked by Marxists (like every other damn thing) and so it's GND (ie Marxism) or bust for them. They've admitted this at this point. It's wealth redistribution.

And I think most Republicans are for those bullet points but you would never know about it because it's never enough with the left. The Republicans could put out a plan like this and it would immediately be lambasted as not enough.

Remember that we are at 11:59:54 on the DoomsDay clock with the moronic left. The only options left for consideration are extreme measures.
cbr
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Ag87H2O said:

StrickAggie06 said:



1. Climate scientists aren't scientists. this seems a demonstrably true trend

2. The climate is a massively multivariate system akin in scale and complexity to the human body. Saying that we can accurately model the climate is like saying we can accurately model exactly how a person will age, quantitatively predict disease manifestation, or pre-determine the effect of a new drug or genetic change on the entire body. We have clinical trials for a reason.


i have always said that we dont even know all the variables that should go into a climate model, much less what values to assign to any one variable, much less how they all interact or cancel or magnify each other, much less have the computing power to model all the variables even if we knew what they were or what values to assign to them.

3. The models used by climate science are derived from a number of different data sets, with vast differences in error variance. Combining the sets together creates a statistical nightmare with error tolerances so large that the model is essentially useless.

see above

a. Satellite data is generally the most accurate, and is limited to less than 100 years of data.

any kind of semi reliable, sort of worldwide coverage would be less than 15 years of data.

b. Thermometer data is typically derived from airports, which has to be normalized on a time gradient because of the expansion of big cities and the heat island effect. This is rarely done in studies. In addition, there isn't a central starting point in time for creating a baseline global average, as airports were fewer in number early on and largely concentrated in North America and Europe. As a result, this data prior to maybe the 1960's (and possibly later) is going to have to either be extrapolated to other parts of the world based on other data sources (i.e. ice cores), or else missing crucial data points. Either way, a very significant amount of error tolerance is present in the set.

c. Water based temp data. There are 2 types - ship based ocean surface readings, and buoy based ocean subsurface readings. Surface data is widely accepted as unreliable due to a roughly 2 degree artificially inflated reading due to light reflection off the surface. Notoriously, buoy based data was removed from the NOAA report under Obama that was presented to the UN, as the initial results including it didn't fit the narrative.

there is no denying that climate change alarmists have always used forged or skewed data.

d. Ice Cores. Horribly inaccurate with huge error variance. This variance also scales exponentially the further you go back in time. In addition, they are limited to areas near the poles, so they are a very poor indicator of historical average global temperatures. As they are the only source of somewhat historical data, they constitute a very very poor "control" to base a climate model on.

e. CO2 data. This comes from either weather balloons, which started somewhere in the mid last century, or ice cores which as noted above are horribly unreliable as a data set. As far as I'm aware, there hasn't even been a control study done to assess how accurate trapped CO2 readings are over time. That would require measuring CO2 in atmosphere at site of ice cores, and then taking an ice core sample every year to measure what is trapped in ice. You would need at least a 50 year study to even begin to validate ice cores as a reliable source for CO2 data, and really not even then since layers become compacted together when you are looking at anything beyond 100 years or so. Without that control study, there is no way to normalize the data to account for less than 100% CO2 capture. As a result, it will artificially look like CO2 is rising over time.

f. Size of Data Set. The Earth is hundreds of millions of years old, and we only have data that goes back at best about 10,000 years with any degree of usefulness. There are a few additional data points derived from geological records and older ice core data tied to known historical events (mass extinctions, eruption of Pompeii, etc), but there is no way to validate the accuracy of the readings and they are too far in between to build any sort of ancient data set. This is especially problematic because the Earth goes through sustained periods of heating and cooling as the axis wobbles. It is widely believed that we are actually near the peak in a warming cycle, but this is not properly reflected in the climate models. In addition, the Earth's magnetic poles shift on occasion, with far far more impact on the climate than man could ever dream of causing.

4. Even if all the data was 100% accurate, you still have to show that the climate change is man made.

a. Their only "proof" of this is to correlate temperature change to CO2/greenhouse gas level change. First, that correlation doesn't equal causation is a cornerstone of scientific research. Second, that correlation is heavily dependent on how the data is represented and sourced (ex: how average global Temps are calculated). The correlation could be supported by a series of site specific t-tests and correlations subsequently analyzed together in both One Way ANOVA and MANOVA (i.e. showing a statistically significant correlation independently at a variety of cities/locations), but to my knowledge this hasn't been done.

b. How do you accurately attribute how much is man made? You would need to be able to exactly calculate the amount of greenhouse gas produced by man vs nature, and there is simply no way currently to do this. Everything is based on a flawed aggregate of calculated estimates rife with more error variance (plant emissions, car emissions, cow farts, etc). In addition, these models have either done a poor job of modeling or else left out entirely the effect of volcanoes, solar flares, and sub-sea magma vents, which is a MASSIVE source of both heat and CO2.

5. Climate science has been so heavily politicized that the scientific method and ethics have been abandoned. There have been several examples of data tampering (most notably by the NOAA), and any academic that tries to publish a study that runs contrary to the established narrative is ostracized. The formerly well respected researcher at Georgia Tech comes to mind, in particular.

this is the bottom line. follow the money. there are huge and widespread incentives to fake climate crisis, and absolutely zero incentives to study actual climate research without an agenda.

6. In conclusion, there simply isn't enough data to to build an accurate model of our climate or determine how much change is attributed to man. There is too much variance and too high of error tolerances to achieve statistically significant results. The models are built by highly politicized, unethical academics that aren't even good at math. I would be absolutely ashamed to attribute my name to any of these pseudoscience "studies".
This is a fantastic post. Sadly, it will be lost on all the climate zealots because truth and facts don't match their narrative.
great post, i wanted to add my own editorial take in support. thanks
American Hardwood
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I was always amused by temperature data. You can go on your favorite weather app that will show a display of all of the temperature readings over a selected area and find all sorts of anomalies from weather stations. Look over a couple square miles of a typical city and most reading are within a degree or two of each other or you can see gradations like going from inland to a coastline, things you would expect.

But then you would see some station reporting a 6 or 7 degree variation from all of the other weather stations around it and just wonder WTF is going on at that one station.

Perhaps those anomalies get washed out in the average, but it makes you wonder...
DDub74
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If any of you truly believe Global Climate Change or Global Warming or whatever you call it is caused by man made CO2 or fossil fuels, then get off your effing computers and iphones, sell your car, TV and any electronics, turn off your AC or go live in an abandoned Van down by the river and SHUT ** UP about it.

That's for you, Al Gore, all the Hollywood liberals and everyone else.
 
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