Teslag said:

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Yes, I remember when I used the Russian government as a source to find out what they considered one of their own ships to be.

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Do you think Russian propaganda typically tries to project strength? Maybe to the point of embellishing assets or capabilities? Sometimes at the expense of truth? Or is this something Russia does not do, in your opinion?

I think the simple naming of a ship to be the fleet flagship is fairly routine and not a propaganda piece. And it wasn't like it was done for the Ukrainian war. The Moskva was the Black Sea Flagship for over 20 years.

Teslag said:

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I think the simple naming of a ship to be the fleet flagship is fairly routine and not a propaganda piece. And it wasn't like it was done for the Ukrainian war. The Moskva was the Black Sea Flagship for over 20 years.

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So you do believe Russia does embellish their abilities but only when it's convenient. Yes that's a totally serious position.

You think that "flagship" is a capability they'd need to embellish?

GAC06 said:

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You think that "flagship" is a capability they'd need to embellish?

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https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3365034/replies/67052549

A simple, yes or no will suffice.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Teslag said:

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I think the simple naming of a ship to be the fleet flagship is fairly routine and not a propaganda piece. And it wasn't like it was done for the Ukrainian war. The Moskva was the Black Sea Flagship for over 20 years.

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So you do believe Russia does embellish their abilities but only when it's convenient. Yes that's a totally serious position.

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Why would the naming of a flagship be an embellishment of ability?

Teslag said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Teslag said:

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I think the simple naming of a ship to be the fleet flagship is fairly routine and not a propaganda piece. And it wasn't like it was done for the Ukrainian war. The Moskva was the Black Sea Flagship for over 20 years.

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So you do believe Russia does embellish their abilities but only when it's convenient. Yes that's a totally serious position.

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Why would the naming of a flagship be an embellishment of ability?

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"assets or capabilities"

It takes a lot to stand out among ludicrous arguments on this thread

If Ukraine is wholly dependent on outside support to retain is sovereignty, then its is sovereign in name only?

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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If Ukraine is wholly dependent on outside support to retain is sovereignty, then its is sovereign in name only?

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Ukraine repelled Russia's initial invasion without much assistance from us. And it's a terrible argument anyway. We relied on French support for our nation's founding and desire for sovereignty. As have many sovereign nations throughout the course of history.

GAC06 said:

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It takes a lot to stand out among ludicrous arguments on this thread

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Ya, I don't even know what his argument is at this point.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Teslag said:

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Yes, I remember when I used the Russian government as a source to find out what they considered one of their own ships to be.

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Do you think Russian propaganda typically tries to project strength? Maybe to the point of embellishing assets or capabilities? Sometimes at the expense of truth? Or is this something Russia does not do, in your opinion?

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If you can't answer yes to these simple questions we should all agree on by now, you're clearly in over your head here.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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If Ukraine is wholly dependent on outside support to retain is sovereignty, then its is sovereign in name only?

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Even then it's not really sovereign as it is clearly not able to pay it's own civil workers, control it's borders/claimed territory, and has foreign forced (both American/CIA, and Russian) operating largely at will within it's claimed borders.

By no fair definition is it a sovereign country today. Putin I think is speaking shortly or just did to give his version of a 'state of the union' speech. Should have some cliff notes this evening. Hopefully feedback from Riyadh.

Teslag said:

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GAC06 said:

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It takes a lot to stand out among ludicrous arguments on this thread

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Ya, I don't even know what his argument is at this point.

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We're all more than aware of your reading comprehension abilities, but thank you for confirming you cannot keep up.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Teslag said:

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Yes, I remember when I used the Russian government as a source to find out what they considered one of their own ships to be.

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Do you think Russian propaganda typically tries to project strength? Maybe to the point of embellishing assets or capabilities? Sometimes at the expense of truth? Or is this something Russia does not do, in your opinion?

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If you can't answer yes to these simple questions we should all agree on by now, you're clearly in over your head here.

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Yes, Russia tries to project strengh through propoganda. Duh.
Yes, Russia embellishes assets and capabilities.


Now how does naming the Moskva the Black Sea Flagship in 2002 accomplish either of these?

nortex97 said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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If Ukraine is wholly dependent on outside support to retain is sovereignty, then its is sovereign in name only?

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Even then it's not really sovereign as it is clearly not able to pay it's own civil workers, control it's borders/claimed territory, and has foreign forced (both American/CIA, and Russian) operating largely at will within it's claimed borders.

By no fair definition is it a sovereign country today. Putin I think is speaking shortly or just did to give his version of a 'state of the union' speech. Should have some cliff notes this evening. Hopefully feedback from Riyadh.

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Not a sovereign country but just yesterday you were about to explode yourself in excitement that Russia was....












meeting in Saudi Arabia to discuss peace with sovereign country.

Teslag said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Teslag said:

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Yes, I remember when I used the Russian government as a source to find out what they considered one of their own ships to be.

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Do you think Russian propaganda typically tries to project strength? Maybe to the point of embellishing assets or capabilities? Sometimes at the expense of truth? Or is this something Russia does not do, in your opinion?

---

If you can't answer yes to these simple questions we should all agree on by now, you're clearly in over your head here.

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Yes, Russia tries to project strengh through propoganda. Duh.
Yes, Russia embellishes assets and capabilities.


Now how does naming the Moskva the Black Sea Flagship in 2002 accomplish either of these?

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How that projects strength should be self evident.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Teslag said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Teslag said:

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Yes, I remember when I used the Russian government as a source to find out what they considered one of their own ships to be.

---

Do you think Russian propaganda typically tries to project strength? Maybe to the point of embellishing assets or capabilities? Sometimes at the expense of truth? Or is this something Russia does not do, in your opinion?

---

If you can't answer yes to these simple questions we should all agree on by now, you're clearly in over your head here.

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Yes, Russia tries to project strengh through propoganda. Duh.
Yes, Russia embellishes assets and capabilities.


Now how does naming the Moskva the Black Sea Flagship in 2002 accomplish either of these?

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How that projects strength should be self evident.

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I answered your questions directly. Answer mine directly. How does naming the Moskva the flagship embellish assets and capabilities?

Teslag said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Teslag said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Teslag said:

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Yes, I remember when I used the Russian government as a source to find out what they considered one of their own ships to be.

---

Do you think Russian propaganda typically tries to project strength? Maybe to the point of embellishing assets or capabilities? Sometimes at the expense of truth? Or is this something Russia does not do, in your opinion?

---

If you can't answer yes to these simple questions we should all agree on by now, you're clearly in over your head here.

---

Yes, Russia tries to project strengh through propoganda. Duh.
Yes, Russia embellishes assets and capabilities.


Now how does naming the Moskva the Black Sea Flagship in 2002 accomplish either of these?

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How that projects strength should be self evident.

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I answered your questions directly. Answer mine directly. How does naming the Moskva the flagship embellish assets and capabilities?

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It doesn't embellish anything, but it does project strength. The other thing we just agreed Russia is known for.

How does simply naming the Moskva the flagship project strength? Again I remind you I gave you direct answers.

And let's not lose track of your original assertion. That Russia naming the Moskva the Black Sea fleet flagship was "propaganda"

Quote:

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Propaganda

information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.

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We are just trying to connect the dots here. Help us out.

Teslag said:

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How does simply naming the Moskva the flagship project strength? Again I remind you I gave you direct answers.

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When it was done 20 years ago it was done to build hype and excitement around the newest and greatest Russia had put out.

I know you have and I appreciate it.

Is there something you think they would've called it other than the flagship if you were trying to project even more strength?

Quote:

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When it was done 20 years ago it was done to build hype and excitement around the newest and greatest Russia had put out.

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The Moskva was launched in 1979, some 23 years before it was named flagship.

Would you like to move the goalposts again?

Teslag said:

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Quote:

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When it was done 20 years ago it was done to build hype and excitement around the newest and greatest Russia had put out.

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The Moskva was launched in 1979, some 23 years before it was named flagship.

Would you like to move the goalposts again?

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I haven't moved any goalposts. But I noticed you suddenly figured out that flagship is a projection of strength. Also, you should double check the name of the ship commissioned in 83, not 79.

It's same ship. Slava was launched in 1979. Renamed to Moskva in 1995.

And names don't project strength. Capabilities project strength.

Teslag said:

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It's same ship. Slava was launched in 1979. Renamed to Moskva in 1995.

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Now you're catching up. Keep reading that wiki article.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Teslag said:

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It's same ship. Slava was launched in 1979. Renamed to Moskva in 1995.

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Now you're catching up. Keep reading that wiki article.

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You probably should have done so prior to "newest and greatest".

Good god almighty

I will say that PCG's "hey guys I was pretending to be completely ill informed and talking out of my ass as part of my grand master plan" bit is my favorite troll of his.

Teslag said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Teslag said:

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It's same ship. Slava was launched in 1979. Renamed to Moskva in 1995.

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Now you're catching up. Keep reading that wiki article.

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You probably should have done so prior to "newest and greatest".

Good god almighty

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The article you linked from 20 years ago back when this first came up was literally about all the new stuff it could do. I said it was propaganda then and now you're the one defending Russia again.

In Russia, a documentary film “On the Edge of the Abyss” is being released in cinemas. Battle for Mariupol through the eyes of witnesses”. The trailer for this film alone debunks the lies that Western propagandists have been telling us for years. When the complete film is… pic.twitter.com/rJ1zHfqWOa

— SlavicFreeSpirit (@SlavFreeSpirit) February 28, 2024

There's a line of argument from some particularly ghoulish Western war hawks that military aid to Ukraine largely goes back into Western economies as payment for war materiel, thus promoting the economy at home. What kills me is that this is an elementary broken windows fallacy.… pic.twitter.com/ODWzbOM1DD

— Armchair Warlord (@ArmchairW) February 29, 2024

⚡️#BREAKING Ukraine Sees Risk of Russia Breaking Through Defenses by Summer pic.twitter.com/iCeux26p8X

— War Monitor (@WarMonitors) February 29, 2024

He's not wrong, clearly, as indicated by the emotional support for death and destruction of Ukrainians and Russians alike has shown in this very thread, and insane rantings from all kinds of officials like Miss Lindsey and Nuland herself;

Quote:

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The West intended to do to Russia what it did to Ukraine and many other nations turn it into a dying, failed state, Russian President Vladimir Putin claimed in a keynote speech on Thursday.

"The West, which has colonial habits and is used to igniting national conflicts all over the world, has intentions that go beyond stalling our development," the Russian leader told the Federal Assembly, a gathering of leading Russian officials and public figures.

"In place of Russia, they want a dependent, withering, dying space, where they can do whatever they want," he added.

The Russian people and its national unity in the face of foreign threats is what protects the nation, according to Putin. Meanwhile, the government has the job of protecting institutions at the foundation of national sovereignty.

"We will not allow anyone to interfere in our domestic affairs," the president vowed.09:43 GMT

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Quote:

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The capabilities of the Russian military have increased "multifold" amid the conflict with Ukraine, Putin said. "Our units are firmly holding the initiative. They're steadily advancing in a number of operational directions, liberating new territories," he added."It's not us who started this war in Donbass… but we'll do everything to end it, to eradicate Nazis," the had of state said. Russia is conducting "a righteous struggle" for its sovereignty and security, Putin said. "We won't allow anyone to interfere in our internal affairs," he added. "We will determine our own path and protect our traditions, [and] solve problems based on our own worldview."

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His address is ongoing, I'll add some more if I have time later today.

…and the army goes rolling along…

Russian forces continue to advance west of Avdiivka, occupying part of Orlivka and fighting in Tonenke and Berdychi. https://t.co/ZSJeimoiDJhttps://t.co/daAu7KU1mN https://t.co/NuEJLUyxls pic.twitter.com/ZDiuPzatw9

— Rob Lee (@RALee85) February 29, 2024

ANALYSIS AVDEEVKA FRONT, FEB 29 2024
RuAF has continued its relentless offensive on the Avdeevka front. Yesterday the major parts of the settlements Berdychi (1), Orlivka (2) and Tonenke (3) was captured. If the offensive is fast or slow depends on what you compare to. Compared… pic.twitter.com/F4X0Ix1v7F

— Mikael Valtersson (@MikaelValterss1) February 29, 2024

Tonenkoye has been captured. Most of the Ukrainian tube artillery engaged in terror shelling of civilian targets in Donetsk in the last year was based in that area, north of Vodyanoye. Tactical and operational matters aside, I find the frontline moving further and further from… pic.twitter.com/bEcxYWhvvW

— Russians With Attitude (@RWApodcast) February 28, 2024

BREAKING: Ukraine To Lose Top Republican Senate Seat https://t.co/EVVDp9Iamt pic.twitter.com/CTn7efAAhK

— The Babylon Bee (@TheBabylonBee) February 28, 2024

Not sovereign;

Here it is. This is the key paragraph from the NYT CIA Ukraine piece that reveals, explicitly, why the CIA hand-selected the NYT to publish highly classified intelligence & invited hand-selected NYT journalists onto a secret CIA base:

It was to pressure Republicans in Congress. https://t.co/lce8OzMiFi pic.twitter.com/U208dk4JSE

— Mike Benz (@MikeBenzCyber) February 28, 2024

Why was Hunter copied on what should be a classified email on Ukraine? https://t.co/xvdVy9vP6t

— Tom Fitton (@TomFitton) February 28, 2024

Forever war, comrades.

Here is whole 🔥 interview w/ the inimitable @jamespoulos https://t.co/PRfZ9kgT8s

— Mike Benz (@MikeBenzCyber) February 29, 2024

Interview on youtube for non x-ers:



I'm listening to the full one right now still, but I am glad that the tie of censorship/government control of online speech into this war is being more broadly seen. That's part of what again reminds me of the public waking up to the fauci flu/vaccine insanity of censorship with very close to martial law types of acts and strict regulation of what was allowed to be said (heck, we still have a nominally open covid forum).

The very same divisions grew into the camps of "support for Ukraine is righteous/required" vs. the "wtaf are we doing with all these weapons/money/CIA bases etc. to blast Russians in the Donbas?" Camps.

Called out from the fan section/a head cheerleader;

Claims by the Ukrainian Air Force since the Fall of Avdiivka have gotten Totally Ridiculous, while several Russian Military Aircraft including a A-50U Airborne-Early Warning and Control Aircraft have been Shot Down recently their continued claims of multiple Su-34 or… pic.twitter.com/Qo2hh6XPNy

— OSINTdefender (@sentdefender) February 29, 2024

No plan past defending Andiivka;

Avdiivka was a heavily fortified town for nearly a decade — but only along the SE front. Russian troops sweeping through, taking handful of villages after the months-long battle of Avdiivka is a consequence of Ukraine not building a strong 2nd line of defense here over the years. https://t.co/hMP4JoR70N

— Christopher Miller (@ChristopherJM) February 29, 2024

Quote:

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No plan past defending Andiivka

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Do you or do you not believe Ukraine has defenses between Adviika and Kiev?

Teslag said:

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Quote:

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No plan past defending Andiivka

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Do you or do you not believe Ukraine has defenses between Adviika and Kiev?

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Starting the day by moving goalposts I see.

Of course there's some degree of defense in depth. But a small gain is a breaking of established lines, which is noteworthy given that you claimed it was a classic stalemate a couple pages back.

Does a small gain develop into a route? Likely not (javelins are likely to cripple any mechanized attempt to develop this into a strategic break through).

But your lack of impartiality is as clownish as attempts to claim Ukrainian non-sovereignty.