Russia/Ukraine from Another Perspective (Relaunch Part Deux)

367,004 Views | 8272 Replies | Last: 1 hr ago by Rongagin71
Teslag
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nortex97 said:

GAC06 said:

You added a "maybe" which could have meant shorter. Now you're claiming you didn't think that. Are you lying now or were you lying then?

If you're lying now, what made you think that then?


Well now we are degenerating because I guess "your side" is struggling. "Maybe" doesn't constitute only a downside limiter. I don't appreciate the "you're a liar" accusation on the basis of this construct. Let me know if you want to engage further constructively/respectfully. I think you are better than the "others" on this so I hope so.

I notice no one on the Zelensky side have accepted my question as to near or mid term definite predictions. Interesting.


If we are on the "Zelensky side" as you claim and being there are only two sides in this war, which do you fall on?
PlaneCrashGuy
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The Ukrainians are being "stacked" and we got Ukes in here splitting hairs over what maybe means. Unserious.
Teslag
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When does Russia show anything for this supposed "stacking". Will the next village also take 6 months to conquer?
nortex97
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GAC06 said:

You claimed Ukraine had "weeks maybe". Now you're claiming you never thought that. It's pretty clear one of those statements is a lie. However that's not the point, I'd like you to analyze your information sources that led you to make such a claim. What led you to claim Ukraine had "weeks maybe"?
Well let's go back to that then, since you also are now accusing me of lying about my past statements.

Per Teslag's lies based on my 1/4 post;



Of course, what he has not done is quote the rest of the post (because it destroys a repeated lie): as I have heard so often "check the links."
Quote:


Quote:

Quote:
Ukraine is considering no alternative to securing stalled U.S. military assistance for its war against Russia and is confident the U.S. Congress will give its approval to release the aid, Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said on Wednesday.

"We don't have a plan B. We are confident in plan A," Kuleba told CNN in an interview.
Further, they face increasingly long odds, as it frankly becomes a numbers game quickly now;
Quote:

Quote:
The military and economic balance in war has shifted strongly against Ukraine, and it is very hard to see how this tendency can now be reversed. There is still time for Ukraine to win a qualified victory against Russia; but only if the United States commits itself strongly to a compromise peace.

Russia's population is at least four times that of Ukraine, and its GDP is 14 times greater. Western attempts to cripple Russia through economic sanctions have failed. The Russian economy grew by around three percent in 2023, as a result of increased energy exports to non-Western countries and a massive and successful effort to invest in military industrial production. Ukraine is making desperate attempts to boost its own military production, but from a far lower industrial base coupled with an acute shortage of skilled labor.

The Biden administration is therefore correct to warn that without continued and massive U.S. military aid to Ukraine, Russia will quickly win. It is however equally clear that U.S. aid still less at the levels sustained to date cannot be guaranteed even in the medium term. Partly due to the new U.S. commitment to Israel created by the Gaza war and the threat of it spreading, the United States is also failing adequately to replenish Ukraine's dwindling stocks of air-defense missiles, which are crucially important both on the battlefield and in the protection of Ukrainian infrastructure and industry. Both the United States and Europe are failing to meet their targets for increased production of artillery shells, which Russia is firing at some three to five times the Ukrainian rate.

And even if the West could vastly increase its military production (highly doubtful given the pressure on Western budgets, supply chain problems, and skilled labor shortages), we cannot provide Ukraine with more soldiers. Ukrainian manpower shortages are becoming increasingly acute, and are leading to increasingly draconian conscription measures and bitter disputeswithin the Ukrainian government over how to enforce conscription, which is faltering in the face of growing public resistance.

Following the failure of last year's Ukrainian counteroffensive, the Biden administration and the Ukrainian government and military have all shifted to a defensive strategy, including trying to fortify Ukraine's long northern border with Russia and Belarus. This region has been quiet since Moscow withdrew its troops in the spring for 2022, after the failure of its initial invasion from the north. However, Russia's growing advantage in numbers means that at some point in future, its army may be able to attack again along this front.

While smart, and even if successful in the short term, a strategy of standing indefinitely on the defensive has two colossal disadvantages for Ukraine. Politically, it brings with it the obvious implication that Russia will go on holding the areas it now controls. This being so, more and more Ukrainians and Westerners will obviously begin to call for a compromise peace. The danger is that if we leave this too long, the balance will have shifted so decisively against Ukraine that Russia will have few incentives left to compromise.
No matter what the swamp (and mouthpieces in the propaganda press) says in the interim, no one is going to be excited to vote for a bill in the House sending billions to get Ukrainians/Russians killed as election season approaches.

And I know no one likes these 'inconvenient truths' (aka 'conspiracy theories') but this Biden proxy war on behalf of his paymasters (CCP-WEF) is, yes, related to compromising information about his family and many others; the ISW (MI6), CIA, Mossad etc. are all intricately involved with this conflict, and the others involving Iran etc:


That last bit I bolded here. Glad to have been proven correct, in some ways, but sad in others.

I have no idea what information sources you think I should study so that I don't reach what conclusions. It was, again, Kuleba (Ukraine foreign minister) who was cited, claiming ludicrously that Ukraine is fighting for nato and the prosperity of the American people (first link in the 1/4 post by me);

Quote:

Ukraine is considering no alternative to securing stalled U.S. military assistance for its war against Russia and is confident the U.S. Congress will give its approval to release the aid, Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said on Wednesday.

"We don't have a plan B. We are confident in plan A," Kuleba told CNN in an interview.

"Ukraine will always fight with the resources given to it. And...what is given to Ukraine is not charity. It's an investment in the protection of NATO and in the protection of the prosperity of the American people," he said.
Are you arguing we should not trust Ukrainians to tell the truth about the war, and what sources should we trust/consider? What specific statement/post/link I made above makes me in your view a liar?
PlaneCrashGuy
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Teslag said:

When does Russia show anything for this supposed "stacking". Will the next village also take 6 months to conquer?


People are dying and you're laughing about the meaning of maybe. WGAF
GAC06
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What makes you a liar is making a claim then claiming you never believed it.
Teslag
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

When does Russia show anything for this supposed "stacking". Will the next village also take 6 months to conquer?


People are dying and you're laughing about the meaning of maybe. WGAF


I'm just asking you when Russia is going to take its first notable town since April of 2022.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Teslag said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

When does Russia show anything for this supposed "stacking". Will the next village also take 6 months to conquer?


People are dying and you're laughing about the meaning of maybe. WGAF


I'm just asking you when Russia is going to take its first notable town since April of 2022.


As soon as Russia takes it, you wont think its notable. HTH.

I'm old enough to remember when you back pedaled from 4 largest cities to 3 largest cities.
Teslag
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

When does Russia show anything for this supposed "stacking". Will the next village also take 6 months to conquer?


People are dying and you're laughing about the meaning of maybe. WGAF


I'm just asking you when Russia is going to take its first notable town since April of 2022.


As soon as Russia takes it, you wont think its notable. HTH.

I'm old enough to remember when you back pedaled from 4 largest cities to 3 largest cities.


And yet you still can't say when they can take any of Ukraines cities next.
nortex97
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GAC06 said:

What makes you a liar is making a claim then claiming you never believed it.


Your full retreat from documenting/substantiating your claim is what makes you one. Sad.

What sources are acceptable in this war, anyway? Only mainstream news and rogoway? British intelligence? I just want to stay clear of your "liar" label. Obviously I can't cite the actual Ukrainians or Russians.

Your name calling is just sad here.
Teslag
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nortex97 said:

GAC06 said:

What makes you a liar is making a claim then claiming you never believed it.


Your full retreat from documenting/substantiating your claim is what makes you one. Sad.

What sources are acceptable in this war, anyway? Only mainstream news and rogoway? British intelligence? I just want to stay clear of your "liar" label. Obviously I can't cite the actual Ukrainians or Russians.

Your name calling is just sad here.


Maybe next time just show some humility and not make a prediction you don't intend to stand behind.


You got over your skis. It happens to all of us on occasion.
GAC06
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My claim? You said Ukraine had weeks. Then you accused Teslag of lying when he correctly pointed it out. Then he showed you your own words where you in fact did say that. Then you claimed you never believed it. It's all on the last page if you'd like to review it.

You made a claim then lied about it. Like I said before, that's not the part I'm interested in.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Teslag said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

When does Russia show anything for this supposed "stacking". Will the next village also take 6 months to conquer?


People are dying and you're laughing about the meaning of maybe. WGAF


I'm just asking you when Russia is going to take its first notable town since April of 2022.


As soon as Russia takes it, you wont think its notable. HTH.

I'm old enough to remember when you back pedaled from 4 largest cities to 3 largest cities.


And yet you still can't say when they can take any of Ukraines cities next.


Because you'll move the goalposts as soon as it happens, like you always do, because you're unserious.
PlaneCrashGuy
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GAC06 said:

My claim? You said Ukraine had weeks. Then you accused Teslag of lying when he correctly pointed it out. Then he showed you your own words where you in fact did say that. Then you claimed you never believed it. It's all on the last page if you'd like to review it.

You made a claim then lied about it. Like I said before, that's not the part I'm interested in.


What does maybe mean, to you? And why is it different from the normal english lexicon?
nortex97
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GAC06 said:

My claim? You said Ukraine had weeks. Then you accused Teslag of lying when he correctly pointed it out. Then he showed you your own words where you in fact did say that. Then you claimed you never believed it. It's all on the last page if you'd like to review it.

You made a claim then lied about it. Like I said before, that's not the part I'm interested in.
His claim that I asserted factually Avdiivka would fall in 3 weeks or whatever was a lie, which happily he substantiated today. A repeated lie, but just exactly that. When I said it "maybe" had weeks it was not an assertion it would fall in 3 weeks. I even provided the source on 1/4 for the question/time. Period. Plain english. Look it up.

It was also based on the assertions of…Ukrainian officials.

Second, you have no claims then to the urgency of American aid for your side (yes, you are on Zelensky's side, imho) so I hope we can agree it is probably best no further aid is passed in the House this year. Because why waste American money if it's not needed for an unnecessary proxy war, right? We can't trust Ukraine, or Biden about it, so let the Euro's and Russians/Ukrainians settle it.

Thx, again I appreciate the actual honesty when it shines through the bs trolls we get from some. Not a single one of the war proponents will predict the area to be lost short/near term to Russian advances for a reason. The reason is that this war is functionally over, it's just spin now. If you had some confidence otherwise you (and others) would…definitively state it.
GAC06
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Plain English, you claimed Ukraine had weeks maybe to be a viable country. Then you lied about it. Then you claimed you never actually thought that. Now you're back to name calling and deflecting. I guess this has run its course. Expecting introspection after being wrong was unrealistic to expect here.
nortex97
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GAC06 said:

Plain English, you claimed Ukraine had weeks maybe to be a viable country. Then you lied about it. Then you claimed you never actually thought that. Now you're back to name calling and deflecting. I guess this has run its course. Expecting introspection after being wrong was unrealistic to expect here.


If any of that were true you would quote it.
GAC06
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It's literally quoted already
74OA
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Putin murders yet another domestic opponent. Navalny was a dead man walking the minute he returned to Russia after surviving being poisoned on Putin's orders.

NAVALNY

He must have fallen out of the only window without bars in his gulag, because he certainly appeared to be healthy and hearty the day before his death.

VIDEO
nortex97
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74OA said:

Putin murders yet another domestic opponent. Navalny was a dead man walking the minute he returned to Russia after surviving being poisoned on Putin's orders.

NAVALNY

He must have fallen out of the only window without bars in his gulag, because he certainly appeared to be healthy and hearty the day before his death.

VIDEO
Glad you could join the thread. It's gross. Supposedly died while 'walking in the prison yard.' About as believable as Epstein, or the need for solitary confinement for J6 gulag prisoners.

How do you feel about the torture and murder of an American citizen by Kiev?
nortex97
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GAC06 said:

It's literally quoted already
Maybe, maybe not. I know there'd be more than that though if it were accurately quoted as such. Still no predictions, eh. Hmm….
Teslag
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nortex97 said:

74OA said:

Putin murders yet another domestic opponent. Navalny was a dead man walking the minute he returned to Russia after surviving being poisoned on Putin's orders.

NAVALNY

He must have fallen out of the only window without bars in his gulag, because he certainly appeared to be healthy and hearty the day before his death.

VIDEO
Glad you could join the thread. It's gross. Supposedly died while 'walking in the prison yard.' About as believable as Epstein, or the need for solitary confinement for J6 gulag prisoners.

How do you feel about the torture and murder of an American citizen by Kiev?


And the hand wave….
Teslag
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nortex97 said:

GAC06 said:

It's literally quoted already
Maybe, maybe not. I know there'd be more than that though if it were accurately quoted as such. Still no predictions, eh. Hmm….


I've said that Russia won't take Kherson Kharkiv kiev or Odessa in the next 6 months. Want to go on record agreeing or disagreeing.?
nortex97
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GAC06 said:

I'm not saying we should hit them directly. I'm saying we could and they wouldn't respond meaningfully. They know they are our *****.
Should we still strike Russia directly?
samurai_science
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Teslag said:

nortex97 said:

GAC06 said:

It's literally quoted already
Maybe, maybe not. I know there'd be more than that though if it were accurately quoted as such. Still no predictions, eh. Hmm….


I've said that Russia won't take Kherson Kharkiv kiev or Odessa in the next 6 months. Want to go on record agreeing or disagreeing.?
I hope they do so we can be closer to ending this money sink.
Teslag
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samurai_science said:

Teslag said:

nortex97 said:

GAC06 said:

It's literally quoted already
Maybe, maybe not. I know there'd be more than that though if it were accurately quoted as such. Still no predictions, eh. Hmm….


I've said that Russia won't take Kherson Kharkiv kiev or Odessa in the next 6 months. Want to go on record agreeing or disagreeing.?
I hope they do so we can be closer to ending this money sink.


We aren't currently sending money to Ukraine.

nortex97
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Teslag said:

samurai_science said:

Teslag said:

nortex97 said:

GAC06 said:

It's literally quoted already
Maybe, maybe not. I know there'd be more than that though if it were accurately quoted as such. Still no predictions, eh. Hmm….


I've said that Russia won't take Kherson Kharkiv kiev or Odessa in the next 6 months. Want to go on record agreeing or disagreeing.?
I hope they do so we can be closer to ending this money sink.


We aren't currently sending money to Ukraine.




We are on the hook for the trillion plus rebuilding if Ukraine wins.
GAC06
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nortex97 said:

GAC06 said:

I'm not saying we should hit them directly. I'm saying we could and they wouldn't respond meaningfully. They know they are our *****.
Should we still strike Russia directly?


How long did you just spend searching for a gotcha? Be honest. And this is what you came up with? Asking me a question that is literally already answered in the quote you just dug up? Laughable.
Teslag
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nortex97 said:

Teslag said:

samurai_science said:

Teslag said:

nortex97 said:

GAC06 said:

It's literally quoted already
Maybe, maybe not. I know there'd be more than that though if it were accurately quoted as such. Still no predictions, eh. Hmm….


I've said that Russia won't take Kherson Kharkiv kiev or Odessa in the next 6 months. Want to go on record agreeing or disagreeing.?
I hope they do so we can be closer to ending this money sink.


We aren't currently sending money to Ukraine.




We are on the hook for the trillion plus rebuilding if Ukraine wins.


So now you finally admit to wanting them to lose? Not just some altruistic notion to end war?
Teslag
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Teslag said:

nortex97 said:

GAC06 said:

It's literally quoted already
Maybe, maybe not. I know there'd be more than that though if it were accurately quoted as such. Still no predictions, eh. Hmm….


I've said that Russia won't take Kherson Kharkiv kiev or Odessa in the next 6 months. Want to go on record agreeing or disagreeing.?


Still waiting….
nortex97
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GAC06 said:

nortex97 said:

GAC06 said:

I'm not saying we should hit them directly. I'm saying we could and they wouldn't respond meaningfully. They know they are our *****.
Should we still strike Russia directly?


How long did you just spend searching for a gotcha? Be honest. And this is what you came up with? Asking me a question that is literally already answered in the quote you just dug up? Laughable.
2 minutes. You wanted to hit them directly, clearly. Sad. That's why you claimed not to advocate for it after. Standard of evidence here for Ukraine war.

Oh, and Teslag must be disappointed today. Sorry my 'guaranteed prediction' of 3 weeks was so disastrously wrong;

Teslag
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Didn't GAC literally say we shouldnt hit them directly or am I missing a quote?
Teslag
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Still waiting
Rongagin71
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Teslag said:

samurai_science said:

Teslag said:

nortex97 said:

GAC06 said:

It's literally quoted already
Maybe, maybe not. I know there'd be more than that though if it were accurately quoted as such. Still no predictions, eh. Hmm….


I've said that Russia won't take Kherson Kharkiv kiev or Odessa in the next 6 months. Want to go on record agreeing or disagreeing.?
I hope they do so we can be closer to ending this money sink.


We aren't currently sending money to Ukraine.


I'm sad that Russia seems to be slowly winning, at least winning enough to keep the rich parts of Ukraine that fell already, but our commitment to help Ukraine if they gave up nuclear weapons has to have some sort of cap.
Not sad if the Biden's kickbacks are falling off.
GAC06
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Teslag said:

Didn't GAC literally say we shouldnt hit them directly or am I missing a quote?


Bizarre really. He posts a quote of me saying the exact freaking opposite of what he's claiming I said, from a year ago. Absolute desperation from the beat down he's suffered today.
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