Teslag said:

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Germany just approved more tanks to Ukraine and their new budget cuts in all areas but defense, which will be their largest defense budget in history to account for Ukrainian aid.

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Yes, but they've also met directly with Zelensky to persuade him to negotiate.

notex said:

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YouBet said:

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Must be an English translation issue but the nuclear sniffing plane can't "control" emissions.

With all of this false flag talk out there, I can't believe Russia would detonate the plant and risk even further involvement by the US.

Western Europe has publicly said they want out of this war and for it to end with negotiations. They don't want to get any more involved. Germany is in recession and France has a Muslim uprising to worry about.

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Pretty sure atmospheric samples can be monitored/checked for (nuclear) radiation levels though. That's what they mean by that terminology.

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Right but in addition they said it could control it, as in actually suppress radiation or do something about it. Anyway, it doesn't matter. It's a translation issue I'm sure.

Quote:

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I mostly just find it odd you and others spend so much time and energy talking about your hatred for someone who, at worst, (if everything claimed by the "another perspective" believers is true), is allegedly guilty of skimming money off the top of the foreign aid coming in. While in the meantime there's another individual who is 100% responsible for starting the war, killing thousands civilians, and sending his troops to die in a pointless war.

---

I am trying to be cordial as is my wont, but this is, flatly, not true. I'll provide a few brief bullet points;

• "Kompromat" is something that inarguably exists on the Bidens, who have been utterly corrupt for many years.
• This means they are not demonstrably simply guilty of graft/corruption, but, rather something more serious; selling US interests out to foreign competitors/nation states.
• This includes being functionally compromised by the Kremlin (and Russian oligarchs) and Chinese governments, and held in a form of blackmail/subservience to their orders pending both (a) future payments and (b) need to keep the corruption from wider public knowledge.

I've provided links many times over the past year to demonstrate the Biden familia's complicity with CCP interests financially, and as well the impact that has had on foreign policy and domestic policy actions alike of the Biden administration. Fundamentally this is not complex to understand, and belies the '10's of millions of dollars' in documented (publicly) direct payments to the Bidens, and their furtive attempts to launder it. A treasonous executive motivated to support/act on behalf of a foreign power is/has been a grave concern since the founders drafted the constitution, requiring natural birth citizenship for any President for instance. Trivializing our situation as such as just 'graft of a few million dollars, if true' is wholly inaccurate, if not historically and constitutionally ignorant.

Corruption matters, which is part of what drew Joe Biden, before he became president, to such a role in Ukrainian affairs. I actually am much more concerned about the remnant of the actual Ukrainian people than…the 'war cheerleaders' are. They are the ones being sacrificed for other interests, yes including the Biden clan long term business partners around Moscow.

In conclusion, reciprocally, I note there is zero incredulous skepticism toward nazi's, or war crimes, or corruption or fascist controls imposed, or anything at all on your behalf toward Ukraine's government. Odd, no? If you are bothered by my apparent bias in sources, are you similarly unperturbed by the war cheerleader threads' attitude as such toward those topics/updates, or merely blinded by your own partisan/blood-thirsty goals as some posters have repeatedly stated toward Russians?

nortex97 said:

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Quote:

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I mostly just find it odd you and others spend so much time and energy talking about your hatred for someone who, at worst, (if everything claimed by the "another perspective" believers is true), is allegedly guilty of skimming money off the top of the foreign aid coming in. While in the meantime there's another individual who is 100% responsible for starting the war, killing thousands civilians, and sending his troops to die in a pointless war.

---

I am trying to be cordial as is my wont, but this is, flatly, not true. I'll provide a few brief bullet points;

• "Kompromat" is something that inarguably exists on the Bidens, who have been utterly corrupt for many years.
• This means they are not demonstrably simply guilty of graft/corruption, but, rather something more serious; selling US interests out to foreign competitors/nation states.
• This includes being functionally compromised by the Kremlin (and Russian oligarchs) and Chinese governments, and held in a form of blackmail/subservience to their orders pending both (a) future payments and (b) need to keep the corruption from wider public knowledge.

I've provided links many times over the past year to demonstrate the Biden familia's complicity with CCP interests financially, and as well the impact that has had on foreign policy and domestic policy actions alike of the Biden administration. Fundamentally this is not complex to understand, and belies the '10's of millions of dollars' in documented (publicly) direct payments to the Bidens, and their furtive attempts to launder it. A treasonous executive motivated to support/act on behalf of a foreign power is/has been a grave concern since the founders drafted the constitution, requiring natural birth citizenship for any President for instance. Trivializing our situation as such as just 'graft of a few million dollars, if true' is wholly inaccurate, if not historically and constitutionally ignorant.

Corruption matters, which is part of what drew Joe Biden, before he became president, to such a role in Ukrainian affairs. I actually am much more concerned about the remnant of the actual Ukrainian people than…the 'war cheerleaders' are. They are the ones being sacrificed for other interests, yes including the Biden clan long term business partners around Moscow.

In conclusion, reciprocally, I note there is zero incredulous skepticism toward nazi's, or war crimes, or corruption or fascist controls imposed, or anything at all on your behalf toward Ukraine's government. Odd, no? If you are bothered by my apparent bias in sources, are you similarly unperturbed by the war cheerleader threads' attitude as such toward those topics/updates, or merely blinded by your own partisan/blood-thirsty goals as some posters have repeatedly stated toward Russians?

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Impressive novel, but I was referring to Zelenskyy in my comparison to Putin. We all know biden sucks. He's still not nearly as bad as a murdering dictator who again, because it bears repeating, is single-handedly responsible for the deaths of (at least) tens of thousands of people in the last year+.

You're also welcome to continue your labeling of the tactical thread as a "war cheerleader" thread since i know it must be frustrating to not be able to spam it with your RT.com themed propaganda like the other Russia/Ukraine threads. But like the other "St. Zelenskyy/Forever War/unlimited aid" strawmen created by the "different perspective" group, "cheerleading" maybe makes up 5-10% of the posts on there. The rest of it is tactical updates from independent sources and discussions of the day to day back and forth between the two armies. Inevitably most people are obviously siding against the country who started the war for no reason, but the majority of the posts are still just reporting and discussions from the battlefield. I'm sure you already knew that and are just committed to the troll, but figured it was worth pointing out anyways.

nortex97 said:

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Quote:

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I mostly just find it odd you and others spend so much time and energy talking about your hatred for someone who, at worst, (if everything claimed by the "another perspective" believers is true), is allegedly guilty of skimming money off the top of the foreign aid coming in. While in the meantime there's another individual who is 100% responsible for starting the war, killing thousands civilians, and sending his troops to die in a pointless war.

---

I am trying to be cordial as is my wont, but this is, flatly, not true. I'll provide a few brief bullet points;

• "Kompromat" is something that inarguably exists on the Bidens, who have been utterly corrupt for many years.
• This means they are not demonstrably simply guilty of graft/corruption, but, rather something more serious; selling US interests out to foreign competitors/nation states.
• This includes being functionally compromised by the Kremlin (and Russian oligarchs) and Chinese governments, and held in a form of blackmail/subservience to their orders pending both (a) future payments and (b) need to keep the corruption from wider public knowledge.

I've provided links many times over the past year to demonstrate the Biden familia's complicity with CCP interests financially, and as well the impact that has had on foreign policy and domestic policy actions alike of the Biden administration. Fundamentally this is not complex to understand, and belies the '10's of millions of dollars' in documented (publicly) direct payments to the Bidens, and their furtive attempts to launder it. A treasonous executive motivated to support/act on behalf of a foreign power is/has been a grave concern since the founders drafted the constitution, requiring natural birth citizenship for any President for instance. Trivializing our situation as such as just 'graft of a few million dollars, if true' is wholly inaccurate, if not historically and constitutionally ignorant.

Corruption matters, which is part of what drew Joe Biden, before he became president, to such a role in Ukrainian affairs. I actually am much more concerned about the remnant of the actual Ukrainian people than…the 'war cheerleaders' are. They are the ones being sacrificed for other interests, yes including the Biden clan long term business partners around Moscow.

In conclusion, reciprocally, I note there is zero incredulous skepticism toward nazi's, or war crimes, or corruption or fascist controls imposed, or anything at all on your behalf toward Ukraine's government. Odd, no? If you are bothered by my apparent bias in sources, are you similarly unperturbed by the war cheerleader threads' attitude as such toward those topics/updates, or merely blinded by your own partisan/blood-thirsty goals as some posters have repeatedly stated toward Russians?

---

Wait...

So Putin decided to invade Ukraine because Biden and Ukraine are corrupt and wanted money?

Zelensky is only marginally worse than Biden, fyi. Biden has never directly ordered people to certain death for no gain due to political expediency, prior to becoming senile/incapable of doing so. He has been happy to molest/get kids killed though (abortion etc), and would have been happy to put sailors/soldiers under the command of his coke head son.

They are both disgusting, and operated by the CCP/CIA etc. Putin is…just as bad, as is Xi Jinping.

📷Occupying authorities report that Ukrainian artillery hit an administration building in occupied city of Volnovakha, #Donetsk Oblast.#UkraineRussiaWar pic.twitter.com/iAnkoPqaFR

— MilitaryLand.net (@Militarylandnet) July 5, 2023

Glad we can trade our mutual concern for war crimes and treason, comrades!

nortex97 said:

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Zelensky is only marginally worse than Biden, fyi. Biden has never directly ordered people to certain death for no gain due to political expediency, prior to becoming senile/incapable of doing so. He has been happy to molest/get kids killed though (abortion etc), and would have been happy to put sailors/soldiers under the command of his coke head son.

They are both disgusting, and operated by the CCP/CIA etc. Putin is…just as bad, as is Xi Jinping.

📷Occupying authorities report that Ukrainian artillery hit an administration building in occupied city of Volnovakha, #Donetsk Oblast.#UkraineRussiaWar pic.twitter.com/iAnkoPqaFR

— MilitaryLand.net (@Militarylandnet) July 5, 2023

Glad we can trade our mutual concern for war crimes and treason, comrades!

---

You should have seen all the **** the US blew up in France because the Germans were occupying it.

Maybe if the Russians left Ukraine there would less fighting going on...

Think that is where Russia was storing a ton of ammo, from the limited videos Ukraine hit the ammo and it cooked off shooting in all directions.

Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

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Quote:

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I mostly just find it odd you and others spend so much time and energy talking about your hatred for someone who, at worst, (if everything claimed by the "another perspective" believers is true), is allegedly guilty of skimming money off the top of the foreign aid coming in. While in the meantime there's another individual who is 100% responsible for starting the war, killing thousands civilians, and sending his troops to die in a pointless war

---

---

Wait...

So Putin decided to invade Ukraine because Biden and Ukraine are corrupt and wanted money?

---

Let's go ahead and play that game for a half second. Your argument is…what? Putin invaded Ukraine because…he cared about oppression of Russian speaking people? He was…afraid Kiev would invade Russia?

The easy, default answer is that the group of Biden-Xi-Zelensky-Putin-Modi etc. actually…don't all just hate each other or the rubble that was Bakhmut etc., but power and money are the objective. Or maybe one could assume Blackrock just sees Ukraine as a suddenly exciting new investment opportunity this year. Or one side really cares a lot about the 100K+ they have tossed into the meat grinder.

Or…not. Rich Russians are…richer today than in February 2022. A certain Moscow mayor's wife is even exempt from sanctions, oddly enough. Weird, right?

nortex97 said:

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Zelensky is only marginally worse than Biden, fyi. Biden has never directly ordered people to certain death for no gain due to political expediency, prior to becoming senile/incapable of doing so. He has been happy to molest/get kids killed though (abortion etc), and would have been happy to put sailors/soldiers under the command of his coke head son.

They are both disgusting, and operated by the CCP/CIA etc. Putin is…just as bad, as is Xi Jinping.

📷Occupying authorities report that Ukrainian artillery hit an administration building in occupied city of Volnovakha, #Donetsk Oblast.#UkraineRussiaWar pic.twitter.com/iAnkoPqaFR

— MilitaryLand.net (@Militarylandnet) July 5, 2023

Glad we can trade our mutual concern for war crimes and treason, comrades!

---

So Biden/Zelenskyy are "just as bad" as someone directly responsible for tens of thousands of deaths and starting a pointless war for no reason? Another very interesting "other perspective."

Also, you may want to look up the definition of war crimes. Bombing civilian occupied apartment buildings and restaurants in a country that you invaded for no reason = war crimes. Bombing facilities that have been taken over by an invading country in attempt to drive them out = not war crimes. However since you also made up the definition of cheerleading I guess it's not surprising you don't know this one either.

nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

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Quote:

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I mostly just find it odd you and others spend so much time and energy talking about your hatred for someone who, at worst, (if everything claimed by the "another perspective" believers is true), is allegedly guilty of skimming money off the top of the foreign aid coming in. While in the meantime there's another individual who is 100% responsible for starting the war, killing thousands civilians, and sending his troops to die in a pointless war

---

---

Wait...

So Putin decided to invade Ukraine because Biden and Ukraine are corrupt and wanted money?

---

Let's go ahead and play that game for a half second. Your argument is…what? Putin invaded Ukraine because…he cared about oppression of Russian speaking people? He was…afraid Kiev would invade Russia?

The easy, default answer is that the group of Biden-Xi-Zelensky-Putin-Modi etc. actually…don't all just hate each other or the rubble that was Bakhmut etc., but power and money are the objective. Or maybe one could assume Blackrock just sees Ukraine as a suddenly exciting new investment opportunity this year. Or one side really cares a lot about the 100K+ they have tossed into the meat grinder.

Or…not. Rich Russians are…richer today than in February 2022. A certain Moscow mayor's wife is even exempt from sanctions, oddly enough. Weird, right?

---

Not even close to my opinion.

I was just reiterating yours, though...

Yep, 'planned parenthood'/infanticide and abuse/mutilation of kids alone, to say nothing of his complicity in this loss of life in Ukraine and treason in general, make him just as bad.

P.U.T.U said:

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Think that is where Russia was storing a ton of ammo, from the limited videos Ukraine hit the ammo and it cooked off shooting in all directions.

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That's not the guidance he was given by Ms. Zakharova

Teslag said:

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P.U.T.U said:

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Think that is where Russia was storing a ton of ammo, from the limited videos Ukraine hit the ammo and it cooked off shooting in all directions.

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That's not the guidance he was given by Ms. Zakharova

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That is the building that the Ukrainians were storing all the kitten, puppies, and babies when they deliberately shelled it. /rt.com

Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

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Quote:

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I mostly just find it odd you and others spend so much time and energy talking about your hatred for someone who, at worst, (if everything claimed by the "another perspective" believers is true), is allegedly guilty of skimming money off the top of the foreign aid coming in. While in the meantime there's another individual who is 100% responsible for starting the war, killing thousands civilians, and sending his troops to die in a pointless war

---

---

Wait...

So Putin decided to invade Ukraine because Biden and Ukraine are corrupt and wanted money?

---

Let's go ahead and play that game for a half second. Your argument is…what? Putin invaded Ukraine because…he cared about oppression of Russian speaking people? He was…afraid Kiev would invade Russia?

The easy, default answer is that the group of Biden-Xi-Zelensky-Putin-Modi etc. actually…don't all just hate each other or the rubble that was Bakhmut etc., but power and money are the objective. Or maybe one could assume Blackrock just sees Ukraine as a suddenly exciting new investment opportunity this year. Or one side really cares a lot about the 100K+ they have tossed into the meat grinder.

Or…not. Rich Russians are…richer today than in February 2022. A certain Moscow mayor's wife is even exempt from sanctions, oddly enough. Weird, right?

---

Not even close to my opinion.

I was just reiterating yours, though...

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No, you weren't. You apparently don't even have an opinion as to 'why' Putin ordered the invasion of Ukraine. I'm not surprised.

nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

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Quote:

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I mostly just find it odd you and others spend so much time and energy talking about your hatred for someone who, at worst, (if everything claimed by the "another perspective" believers is true), is allegedly guilty of skimming money off the top of the foreign aid coming in. While in the meantime there's another individual who is 100% responsible for starting the war, killing thousands civilians, and sending his troops to die in a pointless war

---

---

Wait...

So Putin decided to invade Ukraine because Biden and Ukraine are corrupt and wanted money?

---

Let's go ahead and play that game for a half second. Your argument is…what? Putin invaded Ukraine because…he cared about oppression of Russian speaking people? He was…afraid Kiev would invade Russia?

The easy, default answer is that the group of Biden-Xi-Zelensky-Putin-Modi etc. actually…don't all just hate each other or the rubble that was Bakhmut etc., but power and money are the objective. Or maybe one could assume Blackrock just sees Ukraine as a suddenly exciting new investment opportunity this year. Or one side really cares a lot about the 100K+ they have tossed into the meat grinder.

Or…not. Rich Russians are…richer today than in February 2022. A certain Moscow mayor's wife is even exempt from sanctions, oddly enough. Weird, right?

---

Not even close to my opinion.

I was just reiterating yours, though...

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No, you weren't. You apparently don't even have an opinion as to 'why' Putin ordered the invasion of Ukraine. I'm not surprised.

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I do.

WellWereWaiting.gif

He just cares about the poor widowed Elena Baturina, and all the other Russian billionaires not sanctioned but supposedly also the dead/valiantly struggling Ukrainian "democracy" soldiers. Freedom yada yada yada. And Putin big meanie and others are good. Or something.

nortex97 said:

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He just cares about the poor widowed Elena Baturina, and all the other Russian billionaires not sanctioned but supposedly also the dead/valiantly struggling Ukrainian "democracy" soldiers. Freedom yada yada yada. And Putin big meanie and others are good. Or something.

---

Can I get the number of your dealer? He's apparently got some good *****

Where did you pull all that crap out of?

I haven't said **** about "Elena Baturina, and all the other Russian billionaires not sanctioned". But, they should have been. The US/UN should have sanctioned the **** out of all of them. So, there, that's my position on them.

Biden is a corrupt *******
Xi is a corrupt *******
Zelensky is probably a corrupt ******* (asking the whole world for money to stop an ******* from invading doesn't make him corrupt, though)
Putin is a corrupt *******

One of those invaded another country. Putin.

Every single death due to this war that has occurred in Ukraine since the Special Military Operation began is Putin's fault.

Putin is 100% unequivocally at fault for Russia invading Ukraine.

Putin has wanted to rebuild Mother Russia/USSRLite since he's taken office. So, he figured that since the US was in a weakened position with an idiot POTUS, it would be an easy time to go get him some land. Oh well, he did the FAFO thing...

So...There ya go.

Why do you draw the line at Putin as 'unequivocally to blame?' That's an odd line to draw, as to be unwilling to even for discussion purposes consider 'piercing the veil.'

Put another way, are his motives in the orders (to invade, and since) not worthy of being questioned? Personally, I think he's a sickly old man who happens to be 'in command' of a huge nuclear arsenal, second rate military, and third rate economy. Why would he jeopardize his remaining time/power on earth over a big war regarding…Ukraine joining nato?

In the legal world, anyway, motive, and credibility specifically almost always matters. It's interesting how many words are spilled/typed sniping about even questioning the underlying motives (and character) of the lead actors in this conflict.

It's like I tell my kids when they are fighting. I don't care about the reasons, whichever kid throws the first punch is in the wrong.

nortex97 said:

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Why do you draw the line at Putin as 'unequivocally to blame?' That's an odd line to draw, as to be unwilling to even for discussion purposes consider 'piercing the veil.'

Put another way, are his motives in the orders (to invade, and since) not worthy of being questioned? Personally, I think he's a sickly old man who happens to be 'in command' of a huge nuclear arsenal, second rate military, and third rate economy. Why would he jeopardize his remaining time/power on earth over a big war regarding…Ukraine joining nato?

In the legal world, anyway, motive, and credibility specifically almost always matters. It's interesting how many words are spilled/typed sniping about even questioning the underlying motives (and character) of the lead actors in this conflict.

---

It doesn't matter what he motives were. He didn't have any justification at all to do this invasion.

Hey...if he had had REAL concerns, he could have brought it up in the UN Security Council and gotten a "coalition of the willing" to help him invade.

But, he didn't do that because he knows that even the UN would have called bull**** on him. And THAT is saying something since there is more corruption in the UN than pretty much anywhere.

The UN would have also told him that Russia would have to leave when **** was over...and that is NOT in his plans...

Teslag said:

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It's like I tell my kids when they are fighting. I don't care about the reasons, whichever kid throws the first punch is in the wrong.

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Well, didn't you see how Ukraine was dressed? She DESERVED to have Putin attack her...

Ag with kids said:

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Well, didn't you see how Ukraine was dressed? She DESERVED to have Putin attack her...

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... or like teaching your child to side with the school bully if it's the least expensive option.

nortex97 said:

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Why do you draw the line at Putin as 'unequivocally to blame?' That's an odd line to draw, as to be unwilling to even for discussion purposes consider 'piercing the veil.'

Put another way, are his motives in the orders (to invade, and since) not worthy of being questioned? Personally, I think he's a sickly old man who happens to be 'in command' of a huge nuclear arsenal, second rate military, and third rate economy. Why would he jeopardize his remaining time/power on earth over a big war regarding…Ukraine joining nato?

In the legal world, anyway, motive, and credibility specifically almost always matters. It's interesting how many words are spilled/typed sniping about even questioning the underlying motives (and character) of the lead actors in this conflict.

---

Oh I don't know…maybe because he's the one who ordered the invasion? Sometimes things are exactly as simple as they seem. I'd say it's much more odd to constantly try and shift the blame to everyone but Putin.

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Why do you draw the line at Putin as 'unequivocally to blame?' That's an odd line to draw, as to be unwilling to even for discussion purposes consider 'piercing the veil.'

Put another way, are his motives in the orders (to invade, and since) not worthy of being questioned? Personally, I think he's a sickly old man who happens to be 'in command' of a huge nuclear arsenal, second rate military, and third rate economy. Why would he jeopardize his remaining time/power on earth over a big war regarding…Ukraine joining nato?

In the legal world, anyway, motive, and credibility specifically almost always matters. It's interesting how many words are spilled/typed sniping about even questioning the underlying motives (and character) of the lead actors in this conflict.

---

It doesn't matter what he motives were. He didn't have any justification at all to do this invasion. Justification? Maybe maybe not. You have a very poor understanding of Russia's defensive concerns to say this. Ukraine is a buffer Russia feels like it needs on its borders against its western neighbors. Russia's borders are long and impossible to defend. Which is why every time Russia has been invaded they have used a slash and burn strategy to draw the attackers into the country where they can concentrate their defenses. Ukraine becoming a NATO country from which attacks into Russia could easily be staged is something Putin could not allow because it puts Russia's National Security at risk. This is precisely why the US almost went to war with Russia when it was wanting to install nukes in Cuba- national security concerns THE US deemed worth going to war over. Now in that case Russia stood down and we didn't have to go to war, but Kennedy and the rest of the US was willing to do it if need be. Here the US and Europe was warned multiple times over that they were crossing a red line that would lead to war and the US refused to stand down. Why is the US' SET set of National Security concerns valid and a justification for war but Russia's is not?

Hey...if he had had REAL concerns, he could have brought it up in the UN Security Council and gotten a "coalition of the willing" to help him invade. Putin has been very clear with every US administration that the west meddling in Ukraine or attempting to install a puppet government there was a Red Line. To Russia the US owns the UN. Why would they bring it up there and have the US scuttle it when Putin has told every admin forever not to do it? Odd you seem to imply that America's unjustified war in Iraq was somehow legitimite because they were able to convince other cpuntries to go along with it.

But, he didn't do that because he knows that even the UN would have called bull**** on him. And THAT is saying something since there is more corruption in the UN than pretty much anywhere.

The UN would have also told him that Russia would have to leave when **** was over...and that is NOT in his plans...

---

Geopolitics is never a "Right Vs. Wrong" game.
Ukraine and US provocations
The US invaded Russia's sphere of influence and said with impunity that they were going to bring Ukraine into NATO.

Ukraine was persecuting, imprisoning political dissidents in Donbas.

The US with Soros help conducted a coup in 2014 and installed a pro US regime by bribing and cherry picking the transitional government.

Since the voluntary collapse of the USSR the US promised to not add NATO members east of Germany. They have been doing so in violation of the treaties we signed when the USSR broke up. Violating a treaty is not just a provocation, it can be considered justification for war.

Russia has told the US that due to their defensive concerns Ukraine was a red line that if was crossed they would go to war over. The US crossed the red line and Russia went to war. Why are you surprised Russia is doing EXACTLY what they warned us they would do.

Exactly WHY was it so important for the US to overthrow the current Ukrainian regime? And why was such a coup worth crossing Russia's red line?

Note I am not defending Russia's brutal war tactics. Russia is doing typical Russian atrocities. It's not good and they are 100% wrong for targeting civilians the way they have.

But to ignorantly state that someone US wholly in the right here and Russia had zero justifications to go to war is a bald faced lie.

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Why do you draw the line at Putin as 'unequivocally to blame?' That's an odd line to draw, as to be unwilling to even for discussion purposes consider 'piercing the veil.'

Put another way, are his motives in the orders (to invade, and since) not worthy of being questioned? Personally, I think he's a sickly old man who happens to be 'in command' of a huge nuclear arsenal, second rate military, and third rate economy. Why would he jeopardize his remaining time/power on earth over a big war regarding…Ukraine joining nato?

In the legal world, anyway, motive, and credibility specifically almost always matters. It's interesting how many words are spilled/typed sniping about even questioning the underlying motives (and character) of the lead actors in this conflict.

---

It doesn't matter what he motives were. He didn't have any justification at all to do this invasion.

Hey...if he had had REAL concerns, he could have brought it up in the UN Security Council and gotten a "coalition of the willing" to help him invade.

But, he didn't do that because he knows that even the UN would have called bull**** on him. And THAT is saying something since there is more corruption in the UN than pretty much anywhere.

The UN would have also told him that Russia would have to leave when **** was over...and that is NOT in his plans...

---

This is so perfect.

"I don't care what his (underlying/actual) motives were, even if they were aligned with the 'cause' I now love/support from afar via keyboard. Oh, and his motives were not ok."

"He shoulda gone to the UN Security Council."

Insert Mel Gibson "Freedom" gif. Again, thank you.

Thank you, everyone. Tip your waitress.

Edit: sorry, wrong gif, I have been laughing.

And sometimes things are not exactly as simple as they seem.

See: Iraq, Libya, Syria, Vietnam, Cambodia, Fauci flu, the censorship industrial complex revelations, or the growing BRICS alliance this senseless but costly war has facilitated.

The communists are on the side of a long, protracted, bloody war in Ukraine. "We" must be anti-communist, imho.

nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Why do you draw the line at Putin as 'unequivocally to blame?' That's an odd line to draw, as to be unwilling to even for discussion purposes consider 'piercing the veil.'

Put another way, are his motives in the orders (to invade, and since) not worthy of being questioned? Personally, I think he's a sickly old man who happens to be 'in command' of a huge nuclear arsenal, second rate military, and third rate economy. Why would he jeopardize his remaining time/power on earth over a big war regarding…Ukraine joining nato?

In the legal world, anyway, motive, and credibility specifically almost always matters. It's interesting how many words are spilled/typed sniping about even questioning the underlying motives (and character) of the lead actors in this conflict.

---

It doesn't matter what he motives were. He didn't have any justification at all to do this invasion.

Hey...if he had had REAL concerns, he could have brought it up in the UN Security Council and gotten a "coalition of the willing" to help him invade.

But, he didn't do that because he knows that even the UN would have called bull**** on him. And THAT is saying something since there is more corruption in the UN than pretty much anywhere.

The UN would have also told him that Russia would have to leave when **** was over...and that is NOT in his plans...

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This is so perfect.

"I don't care what his (underlying/actual) motives were, even if they were aligned with the 'cause' I now love/support from afar via keyboard. Oh, and his motives were not ok."

"He shoulda gone to the UN Security Council."

Insert Mel Gibson "Freedom" gif. Again, thank you.

Thank you, everyone. Tip your waitress.

Edit: sorry, wrong gif, I have been laughing.

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Agreed. "He shoulda gone to the UN Security Council to resolve this matter." Is the single most absurd thing I have seen on this website at least since gay pride month.

Ags4DaWin said:

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Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

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Why do you draw the line at Putin as 'unequivocally to blame?' That's an odd line to draw, as to be unwilling to even for discussion purposes consider 'piercing the veil.'

Put another way, are his motives in the orders (to invade, and since) not worthy of being questioned? Personally, I think he's a sickly old man who happens to be 'in command' of a huge nuclear arsenal, second rate military, and third rate economy. Why would he jeopardize his remaining time/power on earth over a big war regarding…Ukraine joining nato?

In the legal world, anyway, motive, and credibility specifically almost always matters. It's interesting how many words are spilled/typed sniping about even questioning the underlying motives (and character) of the lead actors in this conflict.

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It doesn't matter what he motives were. He didn't have any justification at all to do this invasion. Justification? Maybe maybe not. You have a very poor understanding of Russia's defensive concerns to say this. Ukraine is a buffer Russia feels like it needs on its borders against its western neighbors. Russia's borders are long and impossible to defend. Which is why every time Russia has been invaded they have used a slash and burn strategy to draw the attackers into the country where they can concentrate their defenses. Ukraine becoming a NATO country from which attacks into Russia could easily be staged is something Putin could not allow because it puts Russia's National Security at risk. This is precisely why the US almost went to war with Russia when it was wanting to install nukes in Cuba- national security concerns THE US deemed worth going to war over. Now in that case Russia stood down and we didn't have to go to war, but Kennedy and the rest of the US was willing to do it if need be. Here the US and Europe was warned multiple times over that they were crossing a red line that would lead to war and the US refused to stand down. Why is the US' SET set of National Security concerns valid and a justification for war but Russia's is not?

Hey...if he had had REAL concerns, he could have brought it up in the UN Security Council and gotten a "coalition of the willing" to help him invade. Putin has been very clear with every US administration that the west meddling in Ukraine or attempting to install a puppet government there was a Red Line. To Russia the US owns the UN. Why would they bring it up there and have the US scuttle it when Putin has told every admin forever not to do it? Odd you seem to imply that America's unjustified war in Iraq was somehow legitimite because they were able to convince other cpuntries to go along with it.

But, he didn't do that because he knows that even the UN would have called bull**** on him. And THAT is saying something since there is more corruption in the UN than pretty much anywhere.

The UN would have also told him that Russia would have to leave when **** was over...and that is NOT in his plans...

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Geopolitics is never a "Right Vs. Wrong" game.
Ukraine and US provocations
The US invaded Russia's sphere of influence and said with impunity that they were going to bring Ukraine into NATO.

Ukraine was persecuting, imprisoning political dissidents in Donbas.

The US with Soros help conducted a coup in 2014 and installed a pro US regime by bribing and cherry picking the transitional government.

Since the voluntary collapse of the USSR the US promised to not add NATO members east of Germany. They have been doing so in violation of the treaties we signed when the USSR broke up. Violating a treaty is not just a provocation, it can be considered justification for war.

Russia has told the US that due to their defensive concerns Ukraine was a red line that if was crossed they would go to war over. The US crossed the red line and Russia went to war. Why are you surprised Russia is doing EXACTLY what they warned us they would do.

Exactly WHY was it so important for the US to overthrow the current Ukrainian regime? And why was such a coup worth crossing Russia's red line?

Note I am not defending Russia's brutal war tactics. Russia is doing typical Russian atrocities. It's not good and they are 100% wrong for targeting civilians the way they have.

But to ignorantly state that someone US wholly in the right here and Russia had zero justifications to go to war is a bald faced lie.

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That's a lot so I'm going to hit this piece of Putin propaganda now...

Quote:

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Since the voluntary collapse of the USSR the US promised to not add NATO members east of Germany. They have been doing so in violation of the treaties we signed when the USSR broke up. Violating a treaty is not just a provocation, it can be considered justification for war.

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This is 100% not true. Hell, GORBACHEV has said it's bull***** It's just a good way for Putin to lie to get his way. There is no treaty that says ANYTHING remotely like that...But...Now you feel sorry for him. Big bad America made him scared so he killed a bunch of Ukrainians.

BTW, as to the regime change in Ukraine, Putin was only pissed because HIS corrupt puppet got kicked out.

All those countries wanted to join NATO specifically because Russia continually bullied and threatened them (and having already been occupied by Russia before, they knew what Russia would do to them). NATO was their way of getting away from their violent ex boyfriend that kicked their ass for years...

A train transferring old Russian tanks was noticed in Voronezh - judging by the comments of the locals, even they realise what sort of old stuff Russia has to resort to. pic.twitter.com/XJc4b4dlU0

— Dmitri (@wartranslated) July 5, 2023

Russia is sending some of the 100 T-90's they make every month to the front. With their wartime economy in full swing, they'll overwhelm Ukraine and NATO.

Oh wait those are T-55's. I guess the demilitarization is happening, just not to Ukraine. It's a shame museums will be deprived of these.

nortex97 said:

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Agreed. "He shoulda gone to the UN Security Council to resolve this matter." Is the single most absurd thing I have seen on this website at least since gay pride month.

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I think doing that is dumb too (the UN is ****ing useless), but at least he would have had some diplomatic cover - but he knew he couldn't do that because he knew even the corrupt UN wouldn't buy his bull**** that he had a reason to invade and take over the country.

When the UN thinks you're a lying POS, then that's bottom of the barrel...