Russia/Ukraine from Another Perspective (Relaunch Part Deux)

621,457 Views | 9908 Replies | Last: 5 hrs ago by nortex97
Rossticus
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I was more responding to the tone of the Tweeter, as opposed to you. I thought your comment was pretty funny. And to be fair, the odds looked pretty good in that particular club
Rossticus
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Milley hittin' the bricks.

74OA
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AG
China is our pacing threat and Brown has a lot of Pacific service. Brown's biography.
notex
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A lot of racist comments in response to that which is predictably pathetic but the notable part here;

Quote:

According to Politico, Brown will have to "balance between the threat of China and the need to equip the Ukrainian military with munitions, drones, missiles and other high-end equipment."

According to the NYT, Brown commanded troops in the Middle East as head of the US Air Force Central Command.
Talk about a challenging job. Work for a CCP-stooge senile president, and balance the war in Ukraine draining US reserves via presidential drawdowns and appropriations on the one hand and the CCP on the other. Centcom commanding was done…out of Tampa Bay if I am not mistaken.

Straight out of the Robert MacNamara Rand corp. school of 'how to fight communists in Asia by proxy.' Air power matters, but having a guy with a USAF background in charge of a nominally naval confrontation pending with China and a ground war (artillery/armor/infantry) in Ukraine/Europe is…well it's interesting.
Ags4DaWin
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Teslag said:

RebelE Infantry said:

Teslag said:

notex said:

Teslag said:

texagbeliever said:

Teslag said:

There is no war "against" Russia
Yeah and the war in Vietnam wasn't against China.
The war in North Africa in WW2 wasnt against the Nazis.
The Korean War wasn't against China.
This is war solely against Ukraine.
What are you, 12? War is fought by young men in small units, for their brothers beside them, not their presidents/kings/political leaders/generals from afar. Their families mourn them when they die. It's expensive stuff, not just in dollars and rubles.

There is no such thing as a 'one sided' war. What a pathetic comment to make, by someone fully bought into dehumanizing all death/suffering on one side on the basis of your political beliefs, but even moreso as someone who apparently/claims to have served in…the US Army.

I haven't claimed to have served, I am serving. Today. And yes, this war is completely one sided between agressor and innocent. It is completely the fault of Russia. It continues completely because of Russia. It can be ended at any time by Russia. Every single death is on Russia, even their own.


*beep boop*

"History began on 2/24/2022"

Russia didn't have to invade that day. They did. It's 100% their fault afterwards.


Yeah....they just repeatedly warned Ukraine that continuing to persecute, kill, and arrest people in the Donbas region would result in war. Ukraine continuing to do that didn't provoke Russia at all and Ukriane bears zero responsibility for it.

Russia warned the US that continuing to move MATO east would cause a military confrontation. The US ignored the warnings, instigated a coup of a Russian ally/vassal state and then joked about inducting them into NATO.

Russia wanted the west multiple times that their actions threatened Russian security and would provoke a military response.

It's totally Russia's fault that the west ignored all the warnings and told them that we were going to do it anyway.

Foreign policy us all about negotiation. The West ignored warning after warning in the mistaken belief that Russia was bluffing and willing to risk Ukrainian lives on that belief.

Russia committed the action, but they warned the west how they would respond to the West's actions multiple times before they went to war.
Ags4DaWin
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Okay let's take Iraq circa 2000.
We warned Sadam that continuing to try to sell oil in the midst of the sanctions would force us to bomb him because we considered that a national security issue. Even though there was no evidence he was using the funds to buy weapons.
We warned Sadam that continuing to manufacture mustard gas would be considered by us a national security threat which would force us to bomb him even though he had no practical delivery system.

He continued both of these things. So we bombed him.

Thousands of civilians were killed in the bombings under Clinton.

So who bore responsibility for the bombings?

The US surely took zero responsibility at the time.

My point is that you Warhawks seem to think it's 100% okay for us to bomb cou tries when we deem their actions a national security threat even if it is highly unlikely to be one.

We invaded Iraq over what we claimed was a national security threat even though it was all an intentional manufactured lie.

But if Russia does something similar you say it's wrong.

Why is it okay for us and wrong for Russia?
Rongagin71
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AG
GAC06 said:



From a Wagner perspective… things are getting spicy

You hate to see it
Will Wagner actually leave?

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2023/05/05/Ukraine-Wagner-leader-withdraw-Bakhmut/9741683293394/
GAC06
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AG
I suspect not, but who knows? I guess Russia is discovering the pitfalls of relying on a warlord's mercenary/convict army. They definitely aren't going to be allowed to return to Russia as an organized force (at least what remains of one)
Rossticus
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To begin with there was no "persecution" in the Donbas region prior to Russia instigating the Kremlin backed separatist movement in 2014. It didn't exist. Nothing bad was happening to anybody until Russia literally sourced sympathetic individuals, provided them arms, and supplemented them via the Russian military in order to compromise the territorial integrity of Ukraine and begin to chip away at the eastern border little by little. This is a fact. Strelkov himself, and others, has admitted as much since then. From the Russian horses' mouths.

Tragically that resulted in a lot of people being caught in the crossfire and ending up as collateral damage from both Russian supported and Ukrainian military. But you tell me with a straight face that if any foreign nation (let's say China, for example) fomented and militarily supported a small dissident group in a U.S. border region and demanded territorial concession and autonomy (with the clear result of allowing said nation a foothold toward annexation of that region) you wouldn't see a military response as justified.

Again, had the Russian government not incited violence in Donbas and Crimea in 2014 then the "Donbas War" never would have occurred. It was a Russian creation toward the goal of compromising Ukraine's territorial and political integrity once Ukraine began to make clear their desire to align with Europe over Russia. That was the last straw because to Putin and many of the Russian elite Ukraine, like Belarus, is Russia. They have no right to exist outside the Russian sphere of control.

Insofar as what the US has screwed up, and what the Bush administration specifically screwed up 20 years ago, they're two logically distinct events. You can't recuse yourself from acting in the best long term strategic interest of your country and allies because 20 years and 4 administrations ago Bush and his gaggle screwed the pooch. Our screw up doesn't give others carte blanche to go around militarily taking over countries and annexing their territories, which the US in no way attempted to do in Iraq.

Conversely I have no love for the current administration and think that Obama and Brandon's failures were a significant catalyst toward igniting this dumpster fire. Had it not been for that weakness then I believe that this would have been headed off long before any of this culminated. However, given the current situation, I believe that Russia failing to be rewarded for their belligerence is the best outcome for all involved. This includes Russia because catastrophic failure may well be what dissuades consideration of similar future courses of action which would result in further large scale death and economic hardship of Russia's rural, poor, and minority populations.

This is my thought process. I realize that it doesn't match yours and that's how it is. Neither of us can see the future and ultimately probably won't know which would have been the ideal course of action for a long while, if ever. As is the way with most wars. I don't ever want war but Russia was clearly intent on war unless Ukraine laid down and gave itself up to Russian control. As an American and Texan I can't begrudge any nation the right to its own defense or doing everything within its power to augment and sustain that defense. That is however, what leads to war, after all.

I'm reminded of an excerpt from an old Reagan speech:

"Now let's set the record straight. There's no argument over the choice between peace and war, but there's only one guaranteed way you can have peace - and you can have it in the next second - surrender.

Admittedly, there's a risk in any course we follow other than this, but every lesson of history tells us that the greater risk lies in appeasement, and this is the specter our well-meaning liberal friends refuse to face, that their policy of accommodation is appeasement, and it gives no choice between peace and war, only between fight or surrender."

Just trying to give some insight into where I stand. And I think where some of the other folks you like to think of as "war hawks" or "pro war" do too. Believe it or not there are opinions regarding the current situation, held by folks who are adamantly opposed to our involvement, that I agree with (maybe more than you'd expect). I simply feel that the best long term outcome results from a successful resolution brought about by the current course of action, should it be effectively implemented. That, of course, being the crux given existing "leadership".

Thanks for reading my novel :p
GAC06
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AG
Well said

Edit: dang it, you shoulda left it
Rossticus
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Didn't think anyone had seen it yet. I put it back.
Rongagin71
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AG
If Wagner does leave shouldn't the Ukes be concerned that a gigantic explosion of some sort is heading their way?
And should they also evacuate?
YouBet
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AG
nortex97 said:

Ag with kids said:

texagbeliever said:

nortex97 said:

Quote:

In Kiev, Major General Volodymyr Oleinik, who commanded the territorial defense units, was shot dead near his home."
Rumors this was about forcing those Ukrainians conscripted into military service to go to Bakhmut to the meat grinder. who knows though…Ukrainian media wouldn't be allowed to report on that.

Conscription. Because nothing says I want to die for my cause then being told you have to die for our cause. Doesn't that fly in the face of the this is just what the Ukrainians want argument?
Doesn't that work the other way with the Russians?
Yes, both sides are run by oligarchs who use conscription to send their subjects off to die in battle. There is no good side in this war. Both have limited the right to travel (no right to leave the country for military age males), state controlled media, ban books, use forced conscription, have eliminated political opposition parties, and generally have horrible human rights records as well as governments that ranked as recently as 2022 as among the most corrupt 2 in Europe.

The argument that one side warrants massive American subsidies/weaponry to defeat the other is what is absurd.

The winner in this war has, again, been China. Food/energy spikes have not hurt their geopolitical aims.


Once you see this and realize it you can't unsee it. Most on here gung ho about this war are doing it simply to stick it to Russia because of the Cold War. Some of them admitted this early on in the hawk thread.

You even have one poster who repeatedly talks about stacking dead Russians and celebrating every cash outlay we give to Ukraine. Same person bragged on this site about exposing and ratting out fellow employees who were not vaccinated.

That's a traitor in my book and those people need to be ignored as war mongers who do not have anyone's best interest at heart.
GAC06
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AG
That poster enjoys getting people riled up. People make it too easy for him
Ags4DaWin
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Rossticus said:

To begin with there was no "persecution" in the Donbas region prior to Russia instigating the Kremlin backed separatist movement in 2014. It didn't exist. Nothing bad was happening to anybody until Russia literally sourced sympathetic individuals, provided them arms, and supplemented them via the Russian military in order to compromise the territorial integrity of Ukraine and begin to chip away at the eastern border little by little. This is a fact. Strelkov himself, and others, has admitted as much since then. From the Russian horses' mouths.
kind of like how the US via Obama and the CIA sourced the individuals who initiated Ukrainian protests and committed the coup? Once again why is okay for us to overthrow a government but it's not okay for Russia to arm separatists? Let' quickly review separatists that the US has armed and trained. ISIS, the Taliban, the cartels via Iran Contra. Once again. You are condemning Russia for doing the same thing the US has been doing for the past 40 years. So once again. It's okay when we do it. Even though the results are disastrous for the regions we do this to. But if Russia does it we have to intervene. Hypocrisy, especially considering how devastating it has been to the regions in which we have armed separatists

Tragically that resulted in a lot of people being caught in the crossfire and ending up as collateral damage from both Russian supported and Ukrainian military. But you tell me with a straight face that if any foreign nation (let's say China, for example) fomented and militarily supported a small dissident group in a U.S. border region and demanded territorial concession and autonomy (with the clear result of allowing said nation a foothold toward annexation of that region) you wouldn't see a military response as justified. you are comparing apples to oranges. The US fomented dissidence in Ukraine first. Then appointed hand picked transitionary administrators to usher in a new pro-american regime. Here is the correct analogy to the current situation......if China fomented dissidents in DC. These dissidents overthrew our government. Then China handpicked the leaders for creating the new US constitution. Then Mexico starts arming Texan rebels because China starts making laws like taking away Texans' legal rights to vote and get a fair trial and starts jailing Texans it deems as political adversaries. Mexico decides to arm these separatists thinking that Texas' cattle ranches, oil fields, and minerals would be good to have, as well as the refineries in Houston and there is a shared cultural history there. Then hell yeah Mexico is the good guy and China is the bad guy. In this analogy. Mexico is Russia. China is us. And the US is Ukraine. Your analogy does not line up well with the current scenario or timeline of events

Again, had the Russian government not incited violence in Donbas and Crimea in 2014 then the "Donbas War" never would have occurred. It was a Russian creation toward the goal of compromising Ukraine's territorial and political integrity once Ukraine began to make clear their desire to align with Europe over Russia. That was the last straw because to Putin and many of the Russian elite Ukraine, like Belarus, is Russia. They have no right to exist outside the Russian sphere of control.

Insofar as what the US has screwed up, and what the Bush administration specifically screwed up 20 years ago, they're two logically distinct events. You can't recuse yourself from acting in the best long term strategic interest of your country and allies because 20 years and 4 administrations ago Bush and his gaggle screwed the pooch. Our screw up doesn't give others carte blanche to go around militarily taking over countries and annexing their territories, which the US in no way attempted to do in Iraq. the "WE HAVE AN IMPERITIVE TO ACT IN OUR ALLIES' BEST INTERESTS" argument. Ukraine has never been a US ally. The US tried to turn them into a playground for political and corporate corruption after the 2014 coup. Name one thing Ukraine has been an ally with the US on regarding foreign policy. The only connection is the Hunter Biden Burisma and other corrupt corporate connections. Which means we are supplying a war to defend our politicians' and corporate elites personal money laundering playground.

Conversely I have no love for the current administration and think that Obama and Brandon's failures were a significant catalyst toward igniting this dumpster fire. Had it not been for that weakness then I believe that this would have been headed off long before any of this culminated. However, given the current situation, I believe that Russia failing to be rewarded for their belligerence is the best outcome for all involved. Yeah...let's completely drain all of our srockpules and resources to hurt russia even while China eyes Taiwan who has been a much better strategic ally, is of much more strategic value. If you're arguing that supplying this war to the extent we have has strategic value, then that is a poor argument. We get nothing strategic out of this except draining Russia's resources at a time when China is the mlre immediate existential threat. This includes Russia because catastrophic failure may well be what dissuades consideration of similar future courses of action which would result in further large scale death and economic hardship of Russia's rural, poor, and minority populations.

This is my thought process. I realize that it doesn't match yours and that's how it is. Neither of us can see the future and ultimately probably won't know which would have been the ideal course of action for a long while, if ever. As is the way with most wars. I don't ever want war but Russia was clearly intent on war unless Ukraine laid down and gave itself up to Russian control. As an American and Texan I can't begrudge any nation the right to its own defense or doing everything within its power to augment and sustain that defense. That is however, what leads to war, after all.

I'm reminded of an excerpt from an old Reagan speech:

"Now let's set the record straight. There's no argument over the choice between peace and war, but there's only one guaranteed way you can have peace - and you can have it in the next second - surrender.

Admittedly, there's a risk in any course we follow other than this, but every lesson of history tells us that the greater risk lies in appeasement, and this is the specter our well-meaning liberal friends refuse to face, that their policy of accommodation is appeasement, and it gives no choice between peace and war, only between fight or surrender."

Just trying to give some insight into where I stand. And I think where some of the other folks you like to think of as "war hawks" or "pro war" do too. Believe it or not there are opinions regarding the current situation, held by folks who are adamantly opposed to our involvement, that I agree with (maybe more than you'd expect). I simply feel that the best long term outcome results from a successful resolution brought about by the current course of action, should it be effectively implemented. That, of course, being the crux given existing "leadership".

Thanks for reading my novel :p


I appreciate ur well thought out response. Even more so that it was civil. Although I disagree wholeheartedly because IMHO the premises you use are based on the same modalities paradigms and thought processes of those who grew up during the cold war.

And those are outdated. In fact, those ideas are exactly what led to many regions of destabilization that we faced in the early 2000's and that led to the debt issue we have now that is a very real threat to our country. I would be willing to give you a summation of how our foreign policy approach should have changed in the 2000's but that would lead to an even longer novel.

It is my firm belief that I order to maintain the US position in the world we have to change instead of using the same old strategies which thus far have been an utter failure since the turn of the century.

Our approach in Ukraine is the same old Cold War Era approach. It's a losing strategy. And it's why China is enlarging its scope of influence and the US is losing influence and is consistently viewed as the bad guy on the world stage.
Rossticus
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I agree with the premise of your final comment and I feel that we need leadership who can effectively implement the changes you allude to. We're currently absent that leadership, however, and given current weaknesses of the CIC, failure to demonstrate some significant measure of willing deterrence would likely lead to worse outcomes over and above current state while Brandon is in office. Our foreign policy issues haven't been addressed in anything approaching a satisfactory manner during this administration. Let's get the right CIC in office and change course before China becomes a bigger problem.
Ags4DaWin
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I can agree with that

This biggest problem is that Obama opened this can of worms way back in 2013 and it has only compounded since then.

Trump tried to put a kabosh on it and then got bullied by the media into further antagonization by turning over the weapons Obama promised to Ukraine.

The best approach after Obama ****ed everything up would have been to come up with a solution in 2018 in which Donbas rights were guaranteed kind of like Quebec in Canada with some large degree of regional autonomy. Then guaranteeing that NATO would not try to court Ukraine or Finland. And then making it clear to Putin that any further aggression would generate direct reprisals from the US. This would have addressed Russia's national security concerns
and would have given Russia zero excuse to invade.
^^THIS NEVER HAPPENED^^

Taking away Russia's reasons to invade would have either prevented this debacle entirely OR at least given the US and Europe a justification for providing a much more robust response to the invasion. Both of these alternatives would have been preferential to the prolonged conflict that currently mires the region.

Let's be honest.

Zelensky has talked a big game. But if reports are to be believed he was willing to negotiate with Russia the second they invaded. Then after a personal visit from the British Prime Minister he reverses course and vows to fight to the death.

At this point it is becoming clear that Zelensky and his his people are in this war to make a hefty profit. We also know that aid and weapons and money have gone missing in droves since this began.

The second we cut off the aid and the money gets cut off they are going to enter into peace negotiations.

So we have two choices- keep draining the coffers and our own supplies making our own military less battle ready and spending ever increasing sums to enrich corrupt politicians bith Ukraines and our own or find a solution.

Zelensky has already entertained a visit with China which frankly is a slap in the face to us since China is Russia's ally. In Amy negotiation China enters into it always cuts a slice off for itself and we absolutely cannot allow that.

China is on the brink of a slew of crises that could propel it into drastic action(war)- population decline that will be massive in 10 years time. It is losing its manufacturing sector as it is becoming more costly to manufacture there than it is in mexico and they have done about all the currency manipulation they can do....their housing market is collapsing and has been patched to the brim akin to how ours looked circa 2012. All of this means that in order to keep their population from rising up they will have to find an external source of national unity/loyalty.....enter Taiwan, and pushing harder for the One China policy. If they don't make a move soon then they will be in a much weaker position globally.

Wars are started for 1 of 2 reasons- either a country is in crisis/decline and needs to take resources from an external source to maintain itself or because a country believes it has a mandate to rule.
^^both of these apply to China which makes some sort of conflict inevitable^^

So what we have to do is encourage peace talks ourselves, and give zelensky incentive to do go to the table.

The negotiations should simply be exactly what they should have always been as I described above. And Russia will agree to them in order to save face. Zelensly will agree to them if we offer enough incentive ($$$) and we cut China out completely and we save civilian lives.

And no I don't think of this as appeasement. To me appeasement is a mistake when one country has been the full aggressor from the start.

This is not the case here. The US was the foreign policy aggressor way back in 2014. Most of what Russia has done here is a direct response to all of those foreign policy blunders and aggressions we committed back then. Their response is heavy handed and disproportionate to what we did but it IS a response to our aggressive foreign policy.

Had the US not actively sought to change the status quo in Ukraine this would have never happened. Neither would Crimea.
FJB24
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Quite possibly related as VP Biden under Obama had a special role/mission in Ukraine policy: Grassley claims whistle blower details credibly demonstrate foreign pay to play scheme involving policy and Joe Biden. It's the only foreign policy area I think he actually significantly determined Obama policy actions. In 2014, for instance, he was there a 3rd time in 6 months to discuss short and long term strategies to increase Ukrainian natural gas production just as Hunter was being paid a million a year to serve on the Burisma board (3 days before the trip).

Lede:
Quote:

Among other foreign ventures, Hunter Biden earned up to $1 million per year to serve on the board of Ukrainian gas firm Burisma from 2014 to 2019, beginning when his father was put in charge of the Obama administration's Ukraine policy.

Just days after Hunter joined the board, White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan, at the time a vice presidential aide, told reporters on Air Force Two en route to Kyiv that Joe Biden would push for US support to Ukraine's natural gas industry, which later that year was awarded $50 million by Congress.


Quote:

If this is accurate, it would involve not just Biden but Barack Obama as well. This is because the vice president doesn't have any Constitutional authority to make policy decisions, and quite aside from the Constitution, Obama, who famously said, "Don't underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up", is unlikely to have given Old Joe any real authority to do anything. So if a foreign national was paying Old Joe to make policy decisions favorable to himself, they would almost certainly have had to have the approval of the Man Whose Tan Suit Was His Only Scandal.

The implications of this cannot be understated. It would be no surprise if Old Joe were confirmed as the corrupt kleptocrat he has long been reputed to be, but if this bribery scheme did end up reaching Obama, it could have a serious impact on the Democrats' present electoral chances and even upon their continued ability to sew up elections left and right by means of ballot harvesting, mail-in ballots, and other present-day chicanery. The only problem is that the very agencies that ought to be energetically pursuing this issue are part of the same corrupt Leftist establishment that dominates Washington. Consequently, it's not at all clear that the truth about this will ever come out.

Grassley and Comer are trying their best, however. They continue by indicting Garland's Justice-For-Leftists Department and Wray's politicized and compromised FBI, stating that "based on the specificity within the document, it would appear that the DOJ and the FBI have enough information to determine the truth and accuracy of the information contained within it. However, it remains unclear what steps, if any, were taken to investigate the matter." Given the fact that Biden, Garland, and Wray are all part of the same hypocrisy, it's virtually certain that no steps at all were taken to investigate the matter.
Aside, interesting thread on defense in depth as perhaps the Russian positions show such strategies/planning;

Ags4DaWin
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Good info. It would be pretty damning if Obama could be shown to be involved and might wake some conservatives up to how much of a farce this whole thing is.
FJB24
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RFJ Jr. Interview of Douglas McGregor. Interesting in very many ways to learn his perspective/feedback.

Quote:

Demonstrating once again his extraordinary quality as a free and heterodox thinker, presidential candidate RFK, Jr. interviews Colonel Douglas Macgregor about U.S. policy in Ukraine in the May 5 episode of his podcast. It would be hard to overstate just how much this interview is a departure from conventional MSM and U.S. government orthodoxy and practice. Colonel Macgregor is without question the most knowledgable and strident critic of the U.S. government's (blundering and destructive) war policy.

This seems a good place to note that the U.S. government and its ideologically possessed advisors apparently have NO concept of war beyond that of a resentful and violent adolescent who wishes to destroy his adversaries without considering the ultimate practical consequences of doing so. Contrast the warlords in Washington with the Prussian general and military theorist, Carl von Clausewitz, whose book, On War, presents an incomparably sensible definition of war as an instrument of international politics.

Quote:

24. War is a mere continuation of politics by other means
Quote:

So we see that war is not just a political act, but a true political instrument, a continuation of political intercourse, carrying out the same thing with other means. What remains peculiar to war relates only to the peculiar nature of its means. The art of war in general, and the commander in each particular case of war, can demand that the directions and intentions of politics do not contradict these means. This requirement is no small order, but no matter how strongly these means affect political intentions in individual cases, they must always only be understood as a modification of them. For political intention is the end; war is the means, and the means can never be thought of without an end.
The psychopathic clowns in Washington, known by the stupid moniker "Neocons," have no concept of war beyond the initial act of Blitzkriegthat is, a coordinated and massive assault on the enemy's army and infrastructure without any realistic plan for a constructive political settlement.
As a notable example of this, consider U.S. military policy during the Korean War.
Quote:

"Over a period of three years or so, we killed off what 20 percent of the population," Air Force Gen. Curtis LeMay, head of the Strategic Air Command during the Korean War, told the Office of Air Force History in 1984. Dean Rusk, a supporter of the war and later secretary of state, said the United States bombed "everything that moved in North Korea, every brick standing on top of another." After running low on urban targets, U.S. bombers destroyed hydroelectric and irrigation dams in the later stages of the war, flooding farmland and destroying crops.
What was the final, political achievement of killing 20% of the North Korean population? (Imagine if a foreign air force killed 20% of the U.S. civilian population, or 66 million people. I wonder how we would feel about that).

What constructive political outcome did U.S. military policy achieve in Vietnam, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Syria?

Regarding Ukraine, Colonel Macgregor says at the outset of his interview with RFK Jr.
Quote:

I think we need to establish up front that there has never really been a strategy.

nortex97
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AG
Zelensky meets with Blackrock. There it is, giving the game away yet again.

Quote:

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky met management representatives from the globalist investment firm BlackRock in Kyiv this week to discuss the formation of a massive fund for the reconstruction of the war-torn country.

In a meeting with Philipp Hildebrand, Vice Chairman of BlackRock, President Volodymyr Zelensky said on Friday that the sit down will send a "strong signal of strengthening the investment climate."

"The details of the creation of an investment fund to restore Ukraine's economy were discussed at a meeting with the management of the largest asset management company in the world, BlackRock. The main goal of the fund's creation is to attract private and public capital for implementing large-scale business projects in Ukraine," the president wrote on Telegram.

"It is important not only for our people, our society, but also for business, entrepreneurs abroad. Today is a historic moment because, since the very first days of independence, we have not had such huge investment cases in Ukraine. We are proud that we can initiate such a process," Zelensky added.
BlackRock, the infamous investment firm backing the controversial ESG (Environmental Social Governance) scheme often likened to the Chinese Communist Party's social credit score, said that the company has agreed to provide support for Ukraine's Development Fund.
Quote:

For his part, Zelesnky has long stressed the business opportunities awaiting allies at the conclusion of the war, with the president claiming back in September that the estimated cost of rebuilding the country had already climbed above one trillion dollars.

Zelensky, who has long been in contact with BlackRock and other potential investors, said at the time that: "the general project of Ukrainian reconstruction will be the largest economic project in Europe of our time. The largest for several generations."
I haven't read the WaPo-Bezos Lies article (they interviewed Z in London I guess?) but saw this summary;

Quote:

The Washington Post writes that now the situation is radically different from the autumn, when the Armed Forces of Ukraine advanced near Kharkov and liberated Kherson.

"In Kharkiv, the Ukrainians had an advantage when they surprised the Russian troops, which weakened the defense. Many who remained simply fled without a fight. And in Kherson in the south, Ukraine had a great geographical advantage," the newspaper reports.

"Now Russia may have a geographical advantage and stronger numbers. According to Reznikov, about 500,000 Russian troops are currently concentrated against Ukraine, of which at least 300,000 are on the territory of Ukraine," the article says. Recall that British intelligence transmitted this data to Bankovaya last week.

Zelensky told the publication that Ukraine would be ready to launch an assault "as soon as weapons are delivered, which were agreed with our partners." Reznikov added that the Ukrainian "first assault formation" is more than 90 percent complete, but some units are still finishing their training abroad.
Z really reminds me of some sort of sleazy used car salesman stereotype, but working on a much larger $$ stage, even if again only an actor/figure head for the real powers in interest writing the script/directing the play.
nortex97
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AG


Good news, though the feckless waste of humanity the pending 'offensive' is going to involve is a real shame as the pre-determined end point probably is already known by both sides, and Blackrock/China have already agreed to a price tag/structure with team Xiden-swamp.
benchmark
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AG
nortex97 said:

Good news, though the feckless waste of humanity the pending 'offensive' is going to involve is a real shame as the pre-determined end point probably is already known by both sides, and Blackrock/China have already agreed to a price tag/structure with team Xiden-swamp.
Totally agree. If Blackrock/China/Xiden have already agreed on price and Russia already knows how this ends, Russia should immediately withdraw to their pre-determined end point and avoid the forthcoming waste of humanity.
FJB24
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Obviously you're being either obtuse or sarcastic. Still, "preparations for defeat" seem to be in order:

Quote:

Notice that Clown World strategist emeritus, who was among the first clowns to recognize that the neoliberal world order was in decline back in 2014, is now openly predicting a negotiated settlement brokered by the Chinese.
Quote:

Former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger has told CBS News that the conflict in Ukraine may be approaching a turning point, and that Chinese-brokered peace talks could begin by the end of 2023.

"Now that China has entered the negotiation, it will come to a head, I think by the end of the year," the 99-year-old diplomat told CBS in an interview broadcast on Sunday. By that time, he continued, "we will be talking about negotiating processes and even actual negotiations."

Kissinger drew the ire of Kiev last year when he suggested that Ukraine should accept a return to the "status quo ante," or relinquish its territorial claims to Crimea and grant autonomy to the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics, in the name of peace. He has since suggested that these territories become the basis of negotiations after a ceasefire and Russian withdrawal.
I have no doubt that Kissinger is sending a signal to Putin that Clown World is finally willing to compromise, but I am dubious that the Russians or the Chinese will be short-sighted enough to settle for what is on offer, given that it is already within their grasp. Putin has openly stated that the Russian objective is not merely the declowning of Ukraine, but of Europe and the West.

And there is no reason for China to encourage a settlement on the Ukraine front when peace there would permit the military forces of Clown World to concentrate on Taiwan. Which is why I anticipate, to the contrary, the opening of a third front somewhere else in the world, most likely either a) the Middle East or b) Africa.
Teslag
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AG
If anyone truly hopes this war ends quickly they had better hope the upcoming Ukrainian offensive ends with them reaching the Sea of Asov.
nortex97
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Ukraine whines/demands 1 percent from benefactor nation GDP's, says 6 times what we have given them would be more fair/reasonable.
Quote:

To fight Russia, Ukaine's allies should "pledge one per cent of their [GDP] to the attacked country", Germany's Die Welt reports Melnyk as having suggested. While the politician praised efforts so far, saying he didn't wish to downplay the billions already given, Melnyk pointed out that the United States spent half its GDP on fighting during the Second World War.

As things stand, with the GDP of the United States at over $23 trillion, Melnyk's call for funding would stand at around $233 billion in military equipment, or over six times as much as has been spent already by Washington supporting Kyiv. For Germany, giving one per cent of GDP would mean $40 billion, compared to $15 billion given.

Biden-Dems announce new billion dollar military aid package this week (new build, not from US inventory):
Quote:

The Biden administration is set to announce another $1.2 billion in military aid to Ukraine, it is claimed.
The package is said to be valued at $1.2 billion. It will reportedly be used to purchase various air defence equipment for the country, alongside more ammo for artillery and rocket systems.

According to a report by the Associated Press, the Joe Biden administration could announce the newest batch of military funding as early as Tuesday, with the package set to coincide with a Ukrainian counteroffensive against invading Russian forces.

It will bring the U.S.'s total military aid contribution to Ukraine to $36.9 billion since the war began, with the country having already announced multiple separate munitions packages valued at well over $1 billion dollars just last month.

Unlike many previous American donations, however, the equipment being sent east by the Democrat government as part of this package will reportedly not be sourced from existing Pentagon munitions stocks.

Instead, the federal government will reportedly use taxpayer dollars to purchase brand-new equipment from various defence contractors, which will then be delivered to Ukraine over the coming months and years.
China's vital and growing support for/trade with Russia is discussed in this Atlantic Council piece. Trucks, microchips, oil, semiconductors, you name it…

Quote:

The PRC also helps shield Russia's economyparticularly its vital petroleum export sectorfrom the full consequences of its aggression against Ukraine. Chinese imports of Russian crude oil hit a record high in March and are likely to rise further. While Chinese refineries opportunistically capitalize on favorable prices due to Western sanctions and price caps on Russian crude, their purchases are politically laden and strategically important. Without these sales, Russia's limited oil storage capacity would quickly reach tank-top, meaning that Russia would have to shut-in its wells, a process that is costly, difficult to undo, and damaging to long-term production.

In addition to benefitting from oil exports to China, Moscow relies on imports from China, including vehicles. Russia's severe pre-war and wartime truck logistics limitations underscore that China's truck exports are providing critical, timely assistance to the Russian military. Russia is likely dual-purposing its imports of civilian trucks from China, using these supplies to fill gaps in its military logistics.

For example, China's exports to Russia of super-heavy truckswhich are vital for moving heavy military equipmentin December 2022 rose over eleven-fold from prior-year levels. Since trucking shortages often produce inflation, Chinese shipments of super-heavy trucks also helped to keep domestic prices under control, helping sustain Russia's war economy.
nortex97
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AG
RFK Jr. Spewing uncomfortable truths here:



Our aid dollars/weapons are NOT 'helping' Ukrainians:



Ukraine has long been the swamp epicenter of corruption in money laundering.





Teslag
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"We" have killed 300,000 ukes? Not the Russians? Good god.
oh no
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It appears he's assigning some share of blame to us since "we" instigated the invasion and "we" keep prolonging and extending the killing by sending Ukraine more and more money and military assets.


..but yes, Putin is very bad.
Teslag
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oh no said:

It appears he's assigning some share of blame to us since "we" instigated the invasion and "we" keep prolonging and extending the killing by sending Ukraine more and more money and military assets.


..but yes, Putin is very bad.

Ah yes, the old blame the vicitm for being raped because of what she was wearing argument. Except this time you're also blaming the person selling her the short skirt.
texagbeliever
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Teslag said:

oh no said:

It appears he's assigning some share of blame to us since "we" instigated the invasion and "we" keep prolonging and extending the killing by sending Ukraine more and more money and military assets.


..but yes, Putin is very bad.

Ah yes, the old blame the vicitm for being raped because of what she was wearing argument. Except this time you're also blaming the person selling her the short skirt.

The disconnect of how clever you think this analogy is and how clever it actually is, is quite comical.
Teslag
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texagbeliever said:

Teslag said:

oh no said:

It appears he's assigning some share of blame to us since "we" instigated the invasion and "we" keep prolonging and extending the killing by sending Ukraine more and more money and military assets.


..but yes, Putin is very bad.

Ah yes, the old blame the vicitm for being raped because of what she was wearing argument. Except this time you're also blaming the person selling her the short skirt.

The disconnect of how clever you think this analogy is and how clever it actually is, is quite comical.

So is the idea that anyone is to blame other than Russia. This invasion and all the deaths resulting from it lies 100% at their feet.
texagbeliever
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No. You are letting there be only one right choice war. Battle. Death. That is strategic suicide.

There are many ways to get a victory and choosing the absolute dumbest route which happens to be the most costly for Ukrainian lives and their economy, should be called out.
Teslag
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Quote:

There are many ways to get a victory and choosing the absolute dumbest route which happens to be the most costly for Ukrainian lives and their economy, should be called out.

Agreed. Which is why we are blaming the country for the invasion. They don't invade, then none of these deaths occur.
oh no
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Teslag said:

texagbeliever said:

Teslag said:

oh no said:

It appears he's assigning some share of blame to us since "we" instigated the invasion and "we" keep prolonging and extending the killing by sending Ukraine more and more money and military assets.


..but yes, Putin is very bad.

Ah yes, the old blame the vicitm for being raped because of what she was wearing argument. Except this time you're also blaming the person selling her the short skirt.

The disconnect of how clever you think this analogy is and how clever it actually is, is quite comical.

So is the idea that anyone is to blame other than Russia. This invasion and all the deaths resulting from it lies 100% at their feet.
There's plenty of blame to pass around for a lot of things over decades that led to the invasion. This thing has now been going on for over a year and if RFK Jr wants to assign a piece of blame for it continuing on "we", then he can. Obviously "we" didn't physically pull the trigger on anyone who is deceased over there, but there are strings being pulled and strategies being mismanaged that have grave consequence's for soldiers on both sides.

If only RFK Jr was as smart as Teslag and listened to him. What an idiot.
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