texagbeliever said:

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Signel said:

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I'm ok with a slow proxy using Ukraine as the shield of the west. It depletes our enemy and allows us to reduce their risk to the west without actually fighting.

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So you are cool with Ukrainians dying and the rest being subject to poverty and economic ruin? The longer this war draws on the more damaging it is to Ukraine's long term culture and ability to be a stable nation.

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Guess you don't have e a problem ignoring the holomodor, another benevolent act by the Russians on the Ukranians. See, they remember, that's why they fight.

That's why all the former eastern Block countries joined NATO. They remember being under the rule of the Russians/Soviets. I'm baffled why people can't understand this.

How cultural genocide sparked a civil war in Ukraine.

In large chunks of Ukraine, people’s native language is Russian (green areas in map below). But guess what the Nazis in Ukrainian parliament did right after the U.S.-led Maidan Coup in 2014?

Ban Russian language in schools… https://t.co/wSFcgSAVDz pic.twitter.com/rHHT0GDokp

— S.L. Kanthan (@Kanthan2030) March 5, 2023

The fanbois cannot understand what's happening. "But we put up flags! We contributed to the protected thread!"

This thing has flipped so quick lol. It took like 5 years for American to turn on the Vietnam war, but here we are a year later.

oh no said:

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How cultural genocide sparked a civil war in Ukraine.

In large chunks of Ukraine, people’s native language is Russian (green areas in map below). But guess what the Nazis in Ukrainian parliament did right after the U.S.-led Maidan Coup in 2014?

Ban Russian language in schools… https://t.co/wSFcgSAVDz pic.twitter.com/rHHT0GDokp

— S.L. Kanthan (@Kanthan2030) March 5, 2023

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This is a demonstrably false statement by Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.

Here is one link, but you can find many others.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jun/08/sergey-lavrov/russian-has-not-been-banned-ukraine-despite-repeat/

And there he is! Bout time.

CM Trump Voter said:

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The fanbois cannot understand what's happening. "But we put up flags! We contributed to the protected thread!"

This thing has flipped so quick lol. It took like 5 years for American to turn on the Vietnam war, but here we are a year later.

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It's almost as if active Russian information warfare is being applied on the West in a much more quickly evolving information environment (the internet), and that environment wasn't around during the Vietnam War.

Y'all are obsessed with virtue signaling that nobody on this board is even supporting.

No. We are just done with your endless wars. We are done with Americans dying only to enrich liars and the military industrial complex.

CM Trump Voter said:

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No. We are just done with your endless wars.

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Nobody here wants an endless war, so you and I are in agreement that endless war is not the objective.

You're just a pawn in their game, brah

AlaskanAg99 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Signel said:

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I'm ok with a slow proxy using Ukraine as the shield of the west. It depletes our enemy and allows us to reduce their risk to the west without actually fighting.

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So you are cool with Ukrainians dying and the rest being subject to poverty and economic ruin? The longer this war draws on the more damaging it is to Ukraine's long term culture and ability to be a stable nation.

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Guess you don't have e a problem ignoring the holomodor, another benevolent act by the Russians on the Ukranians. See, they remember, that's why they fight.

That's why all the former eastern Block countries joined NATO. They remember being under the rule of the Russians/Soviets. I'm baffled why people can't understand this.

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See I am of the mindset of the USA wants to use this as a proxy war then we better be all out in it. That includes economic warfare. Instead our progressive overlords are crippling oil and gas. doj has that juiced up noose charge.

The USA could strong play to a reasonable truce. Right now Russia caught the west with their pants down (progressive leadership) and as such are in too strong a position to not gain something. For Ukraine that might just be half their country.

CM Trump Voter said:

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Yeah until the bear has been poked enough and lays a thermonuclear warhead in the middle of your mega church during the laser light show.

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I don't think Putin wants to die in a fiery death...which would happen about 28 min after the first Russian missiles launched.

And he better hope his nukes work better than his conventional weapons...

Waffledynamics said:

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oh no said:

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How cultural genocide sparked a civil war in Ukraine.

In large chunks of Ukraine, people’s native language is Russian (green areas in map below). But guess what the Nazis in Ukrainian parliament did right after the U.S.-led Maidan Coup in 2014?

Ban Russian language in schools… https://t.co/wSFcgSAVDz pic.twitter.com/rHHT0GDokp

— S.L. Kanthan (@Kanthan2030) March 5, 2023

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This is a demonstrably false statement by Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.

Here is one link, but you can find many others.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jun/08/sergey-lavrov/russian-has-not-been-banned-ukraine-despite-repeat/

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my grandmother was born and raised in Kiev and spoke Russian and considered herself Russian, but I've already been corrected several times by the Ukrainian experts on texags on how she was wrong. Thanks for the politifact link though.

oh no said:

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Waffledynamics said:

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oh no said:

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How cultural genocide sparked a civil war in Ukraine.

In large chunks of Ukraine, people’s native language is Russian (green areas in map below). But guess what the Nazis in Ukrainian parliament did right after the U.S.-led Maidan Coup in 2014?

Ban Russian language in schools… https://t.co/wSFcgSAVDz pic.twitter.com/rHHT0GDokp

— S.L. Kanthan (@Kanthan2030) March 5, 2023

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This is a demonstrably false statement by Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.

Here is one link, but you can find many others.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jun/08/sergey-lavrov/russian-has-not-been-banned-ukraine-despite-repeat/

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my grandmother was born and raised in Kiev and spoke Russian and considered herself Russian, but I've already been corrected several times by the Ukrainian experts on texags on how she was wrong. Thanks for the politifact link though.

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Congrats! The Russian language still isn't banned, per everything I can find that isn't blatant Russian propaganda like statements from Lavrov.

I just tried alphabet and duck duck go searches and there are dozens of links about laws for Russian language no longer being taught in schools in Ukraine.

For as much as an absolute joke Russia is - so far they seem to be stemming the tide. However keep the meat grinder going - both combatants are not our friend.

nortex97 said:

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Brewskis said:

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Americans picking sides in a tragic human conflict where there is clearly an aggressor, on the basis of run-of-the mill party politics (and associated corruption that has always been present in the US 2-party system) is about the most ridiculous thing I've seen in my 36 years of living.

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The problem is that our senile, duplicitous, treasonous leader is picking a side, with ridiculous demands, in said conflict, at huge expense to all sides.

You might see more things, if you look.

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Literally any argument that the anti-Ukraine/pro-peace groups choose, financial or otherwise, can almost be cut and pasted from the anti-lend lease camp's argument in the late 1930s against aide to European Allies.

The arguments are no more valid now than they were then.

oh no said:

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I just tried alphabet and duck duck go searches and there are dozens of links about laws for Russian language no longer being taught in schools in Ukraine.

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Ukraine passed a law in 2012 ensuring Russian could be taught in schools in regions where 10% or more of the population spoke Russian. They repealed it right after Russia invaded in 2014.

Policy about Russian has further tightened since February 2022.

I think there are valid concerns about the issue but most of the restrictions followed Russian aggression, not precipitated Russian aggression.

Restrictions have also affected many other languages beyond Russian. It's a complex issue that has to do with a nation trying to rebuild its identity…after decades of Soviet rule from Moscow.

What helped make Russian so prevalent in Crimea? Moscow shipping the Tartars to Uzbekistan.

Again this is difficult to really get to the crux of the issue as there is a lot of propaganda from both sides on it. Ultimately, if you look to sources from pre-2014, it is clear that Ukrainian cities predominantly Russian was spoken, even in Kiev, in jobs/academics/professionally.

Crimea is critical to Russia for industrial (energy) and naval base reasons, no way they just give up the deep water port they have. Many don't realize the very real sensitivities over Crimea (as in, the Franco-British invasion centuries ago) or why that matters to them, first and foremost. It's ridiculous to claim it, or the Donbas is worth this loss of lives/treasure to Ukraine or anyone else;

Here is a NYT piece claiming they’re embedded on the frontlines with Ukraine that paints a rosy picture of the war. https://t.co/jGqdonLqLY

— @amuse (@amuse) March 6, 2023

The use of sacrificial penal battalions is horrible.

Wagner's disposable penal battalions and the battle for Bakhmut. https://t.co/AeLR3CJi1b pic.twitter.com/UQrEcTnKNs

— James L. Landis (@JamesLLandis) March 6, 2023

Some of the older folks remaining just want the fighting over with, one way or the other, no doubt;

#German journalist in #Bakhmut says that many civilians don't want to evacuate the city for diverse reasons. Many of them are simply waiting for the Russians, they are with them, they are pro #Russian.#Russia #Ukraine #UkraineRussiaWar #UkraineRussianWar #RussianArmy pic.twitter.com/DPhyn1WZph

— skadefron (@skadefron) March 6, 2023

The risk of having an angry actor/politician trying to dictate military strategies/decisions is…well obvious. Just ask afghan's.

It's rumoured it's not only General Valery Zaluzhny that's questioning the president's decision, but soldiers too have wondered why they are digging in when surrounded by Russian forces.

More than just a power struggle for a city?

— 🇷🇺Jacob🇷🇺Charite🇷🇺 (@jaccocharite) March 6, 2023

War propaganda kills, folks. Google "Bakhmut" and look at the stories CNN and others published just a few short weeks ago, pushing a narrative that Ukraine was besting Russia.

Next, they're going to push for a doomed offensive in Crimea. Incredible lack of regard for human life. https://t.co/aRcQv55z5s

— Rich Baris "The People's Pundit" (@Peoples_Pundit) March 6, 2023

Never change, CNN, never change…

I remember 3 months ago when Ukraine was about to win the war. When I pointed out it was just Russia consolidating and taking up an easier position for the winter I was ridiculed. And now that winter has passed the spring appears to be uncoiling. So predictable.

texagbeliever said:

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I remember 3 months ago when Ukraine was about to win the war. When I pointed out it was just Russia consolidating and taking up an easier position for the winter I was ridiculed. And now that winter has passed the spring appears to be uncoiling. So predictable.

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Oh yeah, Russia's 6 day tactical retreat from Kherson, Izyum, and Lyman before winter was a stroke of military genius. No doubt. Good call.

Read that WSJ article over the weekend about Wagner and the penal troops and its pretty horrific.

Thanks!

YouBet said:

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Read that WSJ article over the weekend about Wagner and the penal troops and its pretty horrific.

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Russia has long had a policy of "we have more bodies than you have bullets"...

Ag with kids said:

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YouBet said:

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Read that WSJ article over the weekend about Wagner and the penal troops and its pretty horrific.

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Russia has long had a policy of "we have more bodies than you have bullets"...

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I know but it's pretty gruesome to read that the penal soldiers are murdered by Wagner's "signature" move of a sledgehammer to the skull if they come back from the front lines.

YouBet said:

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Ag with kids said:

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YouBet said:

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Read that WSJ article over the weekend about Wagner and the penal troops and its pretty horrific.

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Russia has long had a policy of "we have more bodies than you have bullets"...

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I know but it's pretty gruesome to read that the penal soldiers are murdered by Wagner's "signature" move of a sledgehammer to the skull if they come back from the front lines.

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Damn...hadn't seen that.

Those ****ers are sick.

I don't understand this Georgia any more than I do our own, but it sounds like their president is basically pro-Russia and that this legislation about foreign lobbyists favors Putin somehow.

Kinda wild to read about.

Good article from Foreign Affairs as to Russia's maximalist rhetoric and sort of halfway actions domestically;

Quote:

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Yet many of these moves have been considerably less severe in practice than they seem on paper. In Ukraine, despite increasing attacks on civilian areas, Russia has held back from using its full arsenal. And although Putin has done much to tighten his grip on Russian society in the year since the invasion, many of his most far-reaching domestic measures have been incompletely implemented. Again and again, the Kremlin has stopped short of total militarization and total mobilizationwhether of the economy or of society at large.

By many indications, this partial approach to total war is not haphazard, nor is it simply the result of failed execution. Instead, Russia appears to be pursuing a deliberate strategy aimed at both the West and its own population. By staking out a maximalist stance on the war, the Kremlin can suggest to the West that it is prepared to do whatever it takes to win in Ukraine, without necessarily having to make good on its threats. At home, meanwhile, the Russian government can convey to ordinary Russians that it has the option of tightening the screws further, but that it is not going out of its way to alienate the population. In both cases, the strategy offers Putin an open path toward further escalation, but without the immediate costs.

SELECTIVE CENSORSHIP, NARROW NATIONALIZATION

Since the opening weeks of the invasion in February 2022, the Kremlin's calibrated actions have often defied its total-war rhetoric. Consider how the government has sought to manage Russian society. Almost immediately, the military offensive was followed by a frontal attack on Russia's independent media and civil society. In March, the popular liberal radio station Ekho Moskvy and the independent newspaper Novaya Gazeta were shut down; journalists were forced into exile; and draconian new censorship laws were introduced. Most important, the government took aim at social media, apparently seeking to silence any circulation of independent information about the war.

Yet the measures were oddly incomplete. The Russian authorities swiftly outlawed and blocked Facebook, as well as some other platforms, including Instagram. For years, Facebook had been known for being one of the only online spaces where liberal Russians could talk freely about politics; unsurprisingly, the government designated Facebook as a company that conducted "extremist activities." Many social media users took this step to mean that even logging in to Facebook might lead to criminal prosecution, and thousands of people deleted the Facebook app from their smartphones in case they were stopped by police and their phones searched. But enforcement never followed. Even more striking was the selective nature of the social media crackdown. The government has not censored YouTube or Telegram, the messaging app, which are two of the most popular platforms in Russia. Instead, they have been allowed to flourish, and become even more important, as the war has progressed.

A similar pattern has unfolded with Putin's economic policies.…

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Emily, you lobbied everyone in America & in Congress to drop the Trump sanctions on Putin’s pipeline. And your successful strategy encouraged Putin to start a war in Europe. A bloody, deadly war.

You should be apologizing to the American taxpayer not attacking US Senators. https://t.co/YO3nhiNdnr

— Richard Grenell (@RichardGrenell) March 7, 2023

texagbeliever said:

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I remember 3 months ago when Ukraine was about to win the war. When I pointed out it was just Russia consolidating and taking up an easier position for the winter I was ridiculed. And now that winter has passed the spring appears to be uncoiling. So predictable.

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Ukraine took Kherson, Kharkiv, and pushed the Russians out of major areas and now that they are about to take a strategically insignificant town of 5,000 people they are turning the tide?

Really?

texagbeliever said:

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I remember 3 months ago when Ukraine was about to win the war. When I pointed out it was just Russia consolidating and taking up an easier position for the winter I was ridiculed. And now that winter has passed the spring appears to be uncoiling. So predictable.

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They lost thousands of square miles and have finally taken a city they've been throwing men at since like August/September.

Meanwhile, a bit further south, we are approaching 20 years of direct military involvement to 'help' Iraq.

How does this benefit any American? Trillions spent, hundreds of thousands dead and nothing gained.

— Dpurdy800m (@dpurdy800m) March 7, 2023

But that was W's fault. This time, under Biden, it's gonna be so different!

Wars are rarely, maybe never won by forcing the opponent to retreat onto his line of supply. It merely serves to augment the forces defense while the attacker is thinned out.

Orwell writes about how intelligistas have this tendency to think the current trajectory is the trajectory of the future. The inability to imagine change is probably the biggest blindspot in most people. This plays out on this thread when certain posters latch on to the current thing and can't even discuss a change. Just like with covid.

nortex97 said:

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Meanwhile, a bit further south, we are approaching 20 years of direct military involvement to 'help' Iraq.

How does this benefit any American? Trillions spent, hundreds of thousands dead and nothing gained.

— Dpurdy800m (@dpurdy800m) March 7, 2023

But that was W's fault. This time, under Biden, it's gonna be so different!

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The bulk of that military force is in Erbil as a check against the Iranians to east and ISIS and/or russian backed Syrians in the west. We are there purely because of the Kurds wanting us there.

There's been increased talk about America's military readiness amid growing threats from Russia and China. It's causing concern, with The Wall Street Journal reporting Tuesday that "the U.S. is not yet ready for the era of ‘great power’ conflict." https://t.co/SJKyufXlwE

— The National Desk (@TND) March 8, 2023