If Tesla calls vinyl seats "Vegan leather" then is that a big lawsuit waiting to happen if someone's dumb kid eats it because it is Vegan so it must be like plants right? Also is that really more less toxic for your balls or butthole if you're sitting on recycled tires, what if the batteries exploded and that Vegan leather **** burns faster than a renewable "green" resource like cow hide?

Cybertruck isn't changing crap. It takes a full charge to tow a bay boat 15 miles. No one who actually needs a truck is swapping until that changes.

Build It said:

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Cybertruck isn't changing crap. It takes a full charge to tow a bay boat 15 miles. No one who actually needs a truck is swapping until that changes.

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"Revolutionary."

Illuminati Overlord said:

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If Tesla calls vinyl seats "Vegan leather" then is that a big lawsuit waiting to happen if someone's dumb kid eats it because it is Vegan so it must be like plants right? Also is that really more less toxic for your balls or butthole if you're sitting on recycled tires, what if the batteries exploded and that Vegan leather **** burns faster than a renewable "green" resource like cow hide?

---

Authentic frontier gibberish

Build It said:

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Cybertruck isn't changing crap. It takes a full charge to tow a bay boat 15 miles. No one who actually needs a truck is swapping until that changes.

---

I guess it's good that most truck buyers don't need trucks.

Maybe, Ford loses some of the F150 grocery hauler business, but no danger in losing the work truck or trailer hauling clients.

I have no idea what the percentages are but I'm sure Tesla does. I'm guessing I'll be buying a new 3/4 ton diesel long before a batter truck. My trailer needs to go places.

LMAO. Sorry EV totalitarians...

"Ford Motor [US:F] is considering cutting a work shift at the plant where it builds its electric F-150 Lightning pickup as demand for the EV truck falters, according to a memo from a United Auto Workers official.

....

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that our sales for the Lightning have tanked," the union leader wrote in the memo, which was viewed by The Wall Street Journal."

Ford Considers Cutting Shift at F-150 Lightning Pickup Plant https://www.wsj.com/articles/ford-considers-cutting-shift-at-f-150-lightning-pickup-plant-uaw-memo-says-91075154

I tow a travel trailer and bay boat and won't trade my diesel truck for an EV truck. But I also recognize the reality that must truck owners never use them as trucks. There's a reason the Cybertruck has 1.9 million preorders.

Logos Stick said:

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LMAO. Sorry EV totalitarians...

"Ford Motor [US:F] is considering cutting a work shift at the plant where it builds its electric F-150 Lightning pickup as demand for the EV truck falters, according to a memo from a United Auto Workers official.

....

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that our sales for the Lightning have tanked," the union leader wrote in the memo, which was viewed by The Wall Street Journal."

Ford Considers Cutting Shift at F-150 Lightning Pickup Plant https://www.wsj.com/articles/ford-considers-cutting-shift-at-f-150-lightning-pickup-plant-uaw-memo-says-91075154

---

You'll find that most of the EV owners on this thread also don't like the F150 Lightining

Teslag said:

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I tow a travel trailer and bay boat and won't trade my diesel truck for an EV truck. But I also recognize the reality that must truck owners never use them as trucks. There's a reason the Cybertruck has 1.9 million preorders.

---

The ever increasing amount of people claiming to be gay?





Tesla sedans? OK, I get them. I would get a Tesla before any competitor EV.

Cybertruck is an ugly piece of *****

Cybertruck looks like hell.

Think there's going to be enough people that find the differentiation of the Cybertruck enticing that it will be a success. I thought it looked stupid to start, but very functional for what I use a truck for (occasional construction supplies and debris hauling to the dump). It has grown on me aesthetically. Trucks that people use for recreation hauling/rural work aren't going to be available for those purposes for 6-7 years. Cheaper/higher energy density batteries and better distribution of charging points will help.

The Cybertruck and F-150 are SUVs with a bed for the time being, which is what most truck drivers use their truck for.

I think you're going to see a situation where EV prices fall below the average price of their gas vehicle counterparts while people figure out the presumed inconveniences of an EV aren't nearly outweighed by the convenience gains.

hph6203 said:

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Think there's going to be enough people that find the differentiation of the Cybertruck enticing that it will be a success. I thought it looked stupid to start, but very functional for what I use a truck for (occasional construction supplies and debris hauling to the dump). It has grown on me aesthetically. Trucks that people use for recreation hauling/rural work aren't going to be available for those purposes for 6-7 years. Cheaper/higher energy density batteries and better distribution of charging points will help.

The Cybertruck and F-150 are SUVs with a bed for the time being, which is what most truck drivers use their truck for.

I think you're going to see a situation where EV prices fall below the average price of their gas vehicle counterparts while people figure out the presumed inconveniences of an EV aren't nearly outweighed by the convenience gains.

---

I don't doubt it will be a commercial success for Tesla. They will probably also come out with something more 'normal' looking at some point, imho. Truck buyers have for decades been mocked within auto industry journalism/circles for over-buying based on specs.

It's unsurprising that I would guess some EV enthusiasts now dismiss them for failing to embrace some part of the ridiculous cybertruck's capabilities. As usual this has devolved into a discussion of a Tesla product, but I see it as a sort of halo/prestige/talking point premium product they are selling in this space, not intended as a direct competitor/option even to 'others.' The Rivian is a more direct competitor to the Lightning or electric silverado, imho. None of them have any interest to me, for reasons already stated.

Build It said:

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Cybertruck isn't changing crap. It takes a full charge to tow a bay boat 15 miles. No one who actually needs a truck is swapping until that changes.

---

How well can it handle items like a 65" flat screen TV placed in the bed once a year and simply driving around suburbia with an empty bed all the other times?

WSJ reporting that EVs sales have slowed way down and hybrid sales are exploding. Former are too expensive running about $10K more on average than other cars.

Still absurd we didn't pursue hybrids in the first place as the bridge tech. Democrats are morons. Water is wet.

YouBet said:

---

WSJ reporting that EVs sales have slowed way down and hybrid sales are exploding. Former are too expensive running about $10K more on average than other cars.

Still absurd we didn't pursue hybrids in the first place as the bridge tech. Democrats are morons. Water is wet.

---

Even with the hybrids, who knows if even a little more electricity and technology is a good thing for cars. Pretty soon they'll have gunfire sensors and snitch on you for doing drive bys. Or just think your car is being shot at and snitch on you anyway for causing road rage.

YouBet said:

---

WSJ reporting that EVs sales have slowed way down and hybrid sales are exploding. Former are too expensive running about $10K more on average than other cars.

Still absurd we didn't pursue hybrids in the first place as the bridge tech. Democrats are morons. Water is wet.

---

Even the most ambitious ICE to EV switchover plans still are over a decade away. That still is a very, very long time. EV costs are only going to get relatively cheaper.

Illuminati Overlord said:

---

YouBet said:

---

WSJ reporting that EVs sales have slowed way down and hybrid sales are exploding. Former are too expensive running about $10K more on average than other cars.

Still absurd we didn't pursue hybrids in the first place as the bridge tech. Democrats are morons. Water is wet.

---

Even with the hybrids, who knows if even a little more electricity and technology is a good thing for cars. Pretty soon they'll have gunfire sensors and snitch on you for doing drive bys. Or just think your car is being shot at and snitch on you anyway for causing road rage.

---

It's not. Government has already passed legislation to require tech that checks your sobriety whenever you try to start your car along with face tracking tech and they will be adding tracking to it via the new Vehicle Mileage Usage Fee that will replace the gas tax unless they just add it on top which is probably likely.

Bubblez said:

---

YouBet said:

---

WSJ reporting that EVs sales have slowed way down and hybrid sales are exploding. Former are too expensive running about $10K more on average than other cars.

Still absurd we didn't pursue hybrids in the first place as the bridge tech. Democrats are morons. Water is wet.

---

Even the most ambitious ICE to EV switchover plans still are over a decade away. That still is a very, very long time. EV costs are only going to get relatively cheaper.

---

Of course they will which is why Biden should stay the hell out of it and quit mandating adoption. The market will handle it.

Illuminati Overlord said:

---

YouBet said:

---

WSJ reporting that EVs sales have slowed way down and hybrid sales are exploding. Former are too expensive running about $10K more on average than other cars.

Still absurd we didn't pursue hybrids in the first place as the bridge tech. Democrats are morons. Water is wet.

---

Even with the hybrids, who knows if even a little more electricity and technology is a good thing for cars. Pretty soon they'll have gunfire sensors and snitch on you for doing drive bys. Or just think your car is being shot at and snitch on you anyway for causing road rage.

---

Good thing they can't put technology in ICE vehicles

YouBet said:

---

It's not. Government has already passed legislation to require tech that checks your sobriety whenever you try to start your car along with face tracking tech and they will be adding tracking to it via the new Vehicle Mileage Usage Fee that will replace the gas tax unless they just add it on top which is probably likely.

---

It almost makes US car culture sound like a grand conspiracy theory.

1. Subsidize the growth of unwalkable suburbia, and make public transit service suck so much that virtually all American adults will have to buy an automobile.
2. Once everybody has cars, mandate that cars have surveillance equipment.

Of course, such a scheme would require decades of foresight, which the US federal government is incapable of.

BonfireNerd04 said:

---

YouBet said:

---

It's not. Government has already passed legislation to require tech that checks your sobriety whenever you try to start your car along with face tracking tech and they will be adding tracking to it via the new Vehicle Mileage Usage Fee that will replace the gas tax unless they just add it on top which is probably likely.

---

It almost makes US car culture sound like a grand conspiracy theory.

1. Subsidize the growth of unwalkable suburbia, and make public transit service suck so much that virtually all American adults will have to buy an automobile.
2. Once everybody has cars, mandate that cars have surveillance equipment.

Of course, such a scheme would require decades of foresight, which the US federal government is incapable of.

---

Isn't that why the feds slapped Toyota with a huge fine for the unintended acceleration fiasco? Because it doesn't snitch to the US Gov't, otherwise they'd know the whereabouts of ISIS and the Taliban since all they drive are Toyotas. While Hyundais cars constantly catch on fire and absolute silence from the Feds on that, maybe because they do snitch on you to the US gov't.

Also why Volkswagen was slapped with a huge fine for diesel gate because they didn't snitch to the Feds.

YouBet said:

---

WSJ reporting that EVs sales have slowed way down and hybrid sales are exploding. Former are too expensive running about $10K more on average than other cars.

Still absurd we didn't pursue hybrids in the first place as the bridge tech. Democrats are morons. Water is wet.

---

PHEVs receive the same tax credits that BEVs receive, and they're even easier to qualify for (from a manufacturer perspective). The long term cost advantages make investing in PHEV production a questionable business move, though some of these companies appear to be making that mistake.

The average transaction price of BEVs is actually only $2,000 higher than the average vehicle transaction price. You should expect that BEVs fall below that number in the next 2 years. Charging infrastructure is going to be the primary deterrent for BEV adoption soon.

Bubblez said:

---

YouBet said:

---

WSJ reporting that EVs sales have slowed way down and hybrid sales are exploding. Former are too expensive running about $10K more on average than other cars.

Still absurd we didn't pursue hybrids in the first place as the bridge tech. Democrats are morons. Water is wet.

---

Even the most ambitious ICE to EV switchover plans still are over a decade away. That still is a very, very long time. EV costs are only going to get relatively cheaper.

---

Proof?

It's just fantasy pollyanna baseless nonsense.

hph6203 said:

---

YouBet said:

---

WSJ reporting that EVs sales have slowed way down and hybrid sales are exploding. Former are too expensive running about $10K more on average than other cars.

Still absurd we didn't pursue hybrids in the first place as the bridge tech. Democrats are morons. Water is wet.

---

PHEVs receive the same tax credits that BEVs receive, and they're even easier to qualify for (from a manufacturer perspective). The long term cost advantages make investing in PHEV production a questionable business move, though some of these companies appear to be making that mistake.

The average transaction price of BEVs is actually only $2,000 higher than the average vehicle transaction price. You should expect that BEVs fall below that number in the next 2 years. Charging infrastructure is going to be the primary deterrent for BEV adoption soon.

---

Hph, you should write Ford, Toyota, Stelantis, etc and educate them. Your hubris is something to behold. I can't say what I want to say because it'll draw a ban.

"The auto industry's push to boost sales of electric vehicles is running into a cold, hard reality: Buyers' interest in these models is proving shallower than expected.
...

Some car companies, such as Ford Motor [US:F] and Toyota Motor, are tempering their expectations for EVs and shifting more resources into hybrids, which have been drawing consumers at a faster clip."


I'd buy a hybrid. I'll never buy an EV.

Bubblez said:

---

YouBet said:

---

WSJ reporting that EVs sales have slowed way down and hybrid sales are exploding. Former are too expensive running about $10K more on average than other cars.

Still absurd we didn't pursue hybrids in the first place as the bridge tech. Democrats are morons. Water is wet.

---

Even the most ambitious ICE to EV switchover plans still are over a decade away. That still is a very, very long time. EV costs are only going to get relatively cheaper.

---

2030 is 7 years away.

Build It said:

---

Maybe, Ford loses some of the F150 grocery hauler business, but no danger in losing the work truck or trailer hauling clients.

I have no idea what the percentages are but I'm sure Tesla does. I'm guessing I'll be buying a new 3/4 ton diesel long before a batter truck. My trailer needs to go places.

---

How much money does Ford make on an F150 grocery hauler compared to a real work truck?

Illuminati Overlord said:

---

YouBet said:

---

WSJ reporting that EVs sales have slowed way down and hybrid sales are exploding. Former are too expensive running about $10K more on average than other cars.

Still absurd we didn't pursue hybrids in the first place as the bridge tech. Democrats are morons. Water is wet.

---

Even with the hybrids, who knows if even a little more electricity and technology is a good thing for cars. Pretty soon they'll have gunfire sensors and snitch on you for doing drive bys. Or just think your car is being shot at and snitch on you anyway for causing road rage.

---

If Ford has a patent for a self-repossessing car, they've probably got a patent for an automated drive-by snitch too.

torrid said:

---

Build It said:

---

Maybe, Ford loses some of the F150 grocery hauler business, but no danger in losing the work truck or trailer hauling clients.

I have no idea what the percentages are but I'm sure Tesla does. I'm guessing I'll be buying a new 3/4 ton diesel long before a batter truck. My trailer needs to go places.

---

How much money does Ford make on an F150 grocery hauler compared to a real work truck?

---

A metric crap-ton, but then again that market segment also pays triple digits for blue jeans.

Logos Stick said:

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I'd buy a hybrid. I'll never buy an EV.

---

FYI, If you get a plug-in hybrid, you are buying an EV. So make sure to get a mild hybrid like the F150 Powerboost or Corvette E-Ray to avoid those evil EVs.

Logos Stick said:

---

hph6203 said:

---

YouBet said:

---

WSJ reporting that EVs sales have slowed way down and hybrid sales are exploding. Former are too expensive running about $10K more on average than other cars.

Still absurd we didn't pursue hybrids in the first place as the bridge tech. Democrats are morons. Water is wet.

---

PHEVs receive the same tax credits that BEVs receive, and they're even easier to qualify for (from a manufacturer perspective). The long term cost advantages make investing in PHEV production a questionable business move, though some of these companies appear to be making that mistake.

The average transaction price of BEVs is actually only $2,000 higher than the average vehicle transaction price. You should expect that BEVs fall below that number in the next 2 years. Charging infrastructure is going to be the primary deterrent for BEV adoption soon.

---

Hph, you should write Ford, Toyota, Stelantis, etc and educate them. Your hubris is something to behold. I can't say what I want to say because it'll draw a ban.

"The auto industry's push to boost sales of electric vehicles is running into a cold, hard reality: Buyers' interest in these models is proving shallower than expected.
...

Some car companies, such as Ford Motor [US:F] and Toyota Motor, are tempering their expectations for EVs and shifting more resources into hybrids, which have been drawing consumers at a faster clip."


I'd buy a hybrid. I'll never buy an EV.

---

I considered a hybrid before I bought my EV and for many people, that's the right call. But all of the hybrids I was looking at would get me to work and back daily (the only purpose for my car) on EV only, so in essence, the ICE component was just going to be a lump of metal that I never use, so what was the point. I love my EV. Glad I made the choice. Maybe not the right choice for other people, but I don't believe in limiting my options.

slaughtr said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

hph6203 said:

---

YouBet said:

---

WSJ reporting that EVs sales have slowed way down and hybrid sales are exploding. Former are too expensive running about $10K more on average than other cars.

Still absurd we didn't pursue hybrids in the first place as the bridge tech. Democrats are morons. Water is wet.

---

PHEVs receive the same tax credits that BEVs receive, and they're even easier to qualify for (from a manufacturer perspective). The long term cost advantages make investing in PHEV production a questionable business move, though some of these companies appear to be making that mistake.

The average transaction price of BEVs is actually only $2,000 higher than the average vehicle transaction price. You should expect that BEVs fall below that number in the next 2 years. Charging infrastructure is going to be the primary deterrent for BEV adoption soon.

---

Hph, you should write Ford, Toyota, Stelantis, etc and educate them. Your hubris is something to behold. I can't say what I want to say because it'll draw a ban.

"The auto industry's push to boost sales of electric vehicles is running into a cold, hard reality: Buyers' interest in these models is proving shallower than expected.
...

Some car companies, such as Ford Motor [US:F] and Toyota Motor, are tempering their expectations for EVs and shifting more resources into hybrids, which have been drawing consumers at a faster clip."


I'd buy a hybrid. I'll never buy an EV.

---

I considered a hybrid before I bought my EV and for many people, that's the right call. But all of the hybrids I was looking at would get me to work and back daily (the only purpose for my car) on EV only, so in essence, the ICE component was just going to be a lump of metal that I never use, so what was the point. I love my EV. Glad I made the choice. Maybe not the right choice for other people, but I don't believe in limiting my options.

---

Seems like not having gas if you ever need to go farther than work kinda IS limiting your options.

No judgment, though. You do you.

If your work commute is 10 miles and your Tesla has a range of 300....

The PHEV will force the ICE to run to prevent from keeping the same tank gas over a set time period. Either the ECU keeps track of when the vehicle was last filled and/or there is a sensor to test the gas in the tank

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