GAC06 said:

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Turkey shot down a Russian Fencer a few years back and nothing came of it.

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Not Europe, so I suspect not as "big" a deal. Right now RU is looking for a way to drag NATO into this to get his domestic base enrolled in the mess he's made. Absent the Ukr backdrop, I would go with your thought.

Russia’s President Vladimir Putin and Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu are preparing to involve "Youth Army" minors aged 17-18 years in the Russia-Ukraine war, Defense Intelligence of Ukraine reportshttps://t.co/6MT3g2S4IT

— Euromaidan Press (@EuromaidanPress) March 21, 2022

Quote:

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Right now RU is looking for a way to drag NATO into this to get his domestic base enrolled in the mess he's made.

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That is my wag also.

Quote:

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Is Putin "begging" NATO to get involved so he can save face from getting his army defeated by Ukraine?

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Getting defeated by NATO saves face from getting defeated by Ukraine?

Teddy Perkins said:

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Russia’s President Vladimir Putin and Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu are preparing to involve "Youth Army" minors aged 17-18 years in the Russia-Ukraine war, Defense Intelligence of Ukraine reportshttps://t.co/6MT3g2S4IT

— Euromaidan Press (@EuromaidanPress) March 21, 2022

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Quote:

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Since Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered its establishment at the army's behest in October 2015, upward of 416,000 children between the ages of 8 and 18 have joined the Youth Army's ranks. On the organization's website, a live ticker tracking membership increases by the dozens every day. By World War II Victory Day on May 9, the group hopes to have 500,000 members; by 2020 it aims to reach one million.

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Link

Yea I don't see how getting your ass kicked by a country with a bunch of Russian heritage/ancestry would be worse than getting your ass kicked by all of Europe with the West who you despise so much involved.

Unless this dudes got a inoperable brain tumor and just wants to watch the world go up in flames on his way out.

GAC06 said:

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Getting defeated by NATO saves face from getting defeated by Ukraine?

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I think this means Putin's options on surviving this are getting more limited.

Real life Tenet?

Why is Putin still breathing.

Video released of a Ukrainian 2S7 unit pic.twitter.com/y0A4Z2lCMe

— OSINTtechnical (@Osinttechnical) March 21, 2022

Training video?

GAC06 said:

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Getting defeated by NATO saves face from getting defeated by Ukraine?

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He lost the Ukr is a bogey man propaganda battle. Although he's still has the ear of the "important" people there. Right now he's trying to find a way to show a win to the Ru people or he will get deposed for sure. History says that about Russia, they don't tolerate losers at all. "Having" to lob some nukes at Europe gives him a way to win via the "escalate to deescalate" policy they use there. When no one believes he will do so, is when he'll do so. Remember 3 weeks ago there was "no way" he would "really" invade Ukraine.

The other thing to keep in mind is that your logic, and I don't disagree with it, simply doesn't apply to someone who perceives themselves to have ultimate power, even if they don't.

Until someone/country steps up not "to" stop him, but actually "does" stop him Putin will continue to push, make that bully, to get his way. In woke terms, Putin is identifying as doing whatever he feels like, and so far he's being allowed to do so as the West as refused to commit troops/air superiority to the process. In his mind, Putin will see this as weakness even as the west supports Ukr logistically so they can use their bodies, to fight "their" war.

Fighting in Ukraine is far from the Russian people and information controlled somewhat through state media. A war with NATO would be felt immediately by average Russians. Provoking that isn't something a rational person does to get a "win"

GAC06 said:

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Fighting in Ukraine is far from the Russian people and information controlled somewhat through state media. A war with NATO would be felt immediately by average Russians. Provoking that isn't something a rational person does to get a "win"

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rational?

GAC06 said:

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Fighting in Ukraine is far from the Russian people and information controlled somewhat through state media. A war with NATO would be felt immediately by average Russians. Provoking that isn't something a rational person does to get a "win"

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There you go again talking logic and rationality....

If, and I emphasize if, a war with NATO starts, the Russians are far to well conditioned to deal with hardship so where you or I factor that in, they just don't, it's a daily battle for the "average" Russians. This thread is full of "free world" Ukes and Ru's trying to explain what the "real" world is like to relatives living in the Ru bubble back home. The ones back home just can't comprehend that Putin is "wrong". That is how well conditioned they are.

Irrational, was Putin not planning an off-ramp if he got where he is today, but in his self-identified "rational" mind we are not the rational ones and have to be brought to heel. As long as you keep trying to view this thru a western lens and logic, you will miss the point. The only question is how bloody it's going to be trying to stop Putin since I doubt he thinks "we" have the will to do "anything" to stop him.

I'm bowing out of this as it's starting to diverge from the thread purpose a bit much.

Cheers,

Salute CornPops Message said:

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GAC06 said:

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There's not any evidence that Putin is irrational. He miscalculated but that's not the same thing.

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So you agree in his rational reason for attacking Ukraine to free Russian speaking people from Nazi bioweapon creating terrorists????

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That's the line he's using to sell it but pretty much everyone knows that that's not the real reason.

Supply routes to Chernihiv and Sumy appear to be cut off now. Absent NATO intervention or a successful undemonstrated Ukrainian ability to counter attack and hold substantial gains they too will fall. When they fall the pressure will be applied to Kyiv.

If Ukraine has any strategic reserves in the west they should be committed to large attack along Zhytomr-Chernobyl axis. A dangerous roll of the dice that assumes Belarus/Russian can't or won't be able to move into the vacuum and take Lviv. Otherwise it's only a matter of weeks before everything East of the Dneiper is Russian.

This Russian government mouthpiece accidently told the truth?

Russia’s Ministry of Defence here admits 9,861 dead, and 16,153 wounded, soldiers, respectively. A drastic upward revision.

“По данным Минобороны РФ, в ходе спецоперации на Украине ВС РФ потеряли убитыми 9861 человека, ранения получили 16153 человека.” https://t.co/F5dIOXBKEX

— Martin Kragh (@MartinKragh1) March 21, 2022

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Why is Putin still breathing.

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The bounty isn't high enough.

74OA said:

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This Russian government mouthpiece accidently told the truth?

Russia’s Ministry of Defence here admits 9,861 dead, and 16,153 wounded, soldiers, respectively. A drastic upward revision.

“По данным Минобороны РФ, в ходе спецоперации на Украине ВС РФ потеряли убитыми 9861 человека, ранения получили 16153 человека.” https://t.co/F5dIOXBKEX

— Martin Kragh (@MartinKragh1) March 21, 2022

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Is this truly a russian government mouthpiece?
That would be staggering if true

Spaceship said:

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As I have mentioned previously, I have several family members who live in Melitopol. Circumstances have changed recently where I'm refraining from providing any updates from them online. However, we did receive one nugget that I thought was interesting and sharable. A certain local Ukrainian government official (not the mayor who has been in the news) there was recently apprehended/arrested by the Russian army, checked out and then released. However he was sent to Lviv and told to never return. I think that indicates Russia's strategy may be increasingly looking to concede the western part of the country and really only fight for the coastal areas. Otherwise I don't see them handling the situation like that.

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To me, that just means that Putin will control the ports, settle down for a while, resupply, then go back at it.

I pray that God protects your family and friends there.

Looking at https://liveuamap.com/ today, the South seems much more red. What happened to the Uke counter attacks? All dead?

Mariupol is so deep in that sea of red. My God.

aggiehawg said:

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Teddy Perkins said:

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Russia’s President Vladimir Putin and Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu are preparing to involve "Youth Army" minors aged 17-18 years in the Russia-Ukraine war, Defense Intelligence of Ukraine reportshttps://t.co/6MT3g2S4IT

— Euromaidan Press (@EuromaidanPress) March 21, 2022

---

Quote:

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Since Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered its establishment at the army's behest in October 2015, upward of 416,000 children between the ages of 8 and 18 have joined the Youth Army's ranks. On the organization's website, a live ticker tracking membership increases by the dozens every day. By World War II Victory Day on May 9, the group hopes to have 500,000 members; by 2020 it aims to reach one million.

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Link

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Cannon Fodder.

Waffledynamics said:

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Looking at https://liveuamap.com/ today, the South seems much more red. What happened to the Uke counter attacks? All dead?

Mariupol is so deep in that sea of red. My God.

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That doesn't look accurate compared to what our boy drawing his own maps was stating last night.

Melitopol has been discussed here and I have never heard that it is surrounded- yet on THIS map it is completely surrounded.

Mariopol can't hold out for very long before it is going to be entirely destroyed.

LMCane said:

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Waffledynamics said:

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Looking at https://liveuamap.com/ today, the South seems much more red. What happened to the Uke counter attacks? All dead?

Mariupol is so deep in that sea of red. My God.

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That doesn't look accurate compared to what our boy drawing his own maps was stating last night.

Melitopol has been discussed here and I have never heard that it is surrounded- yet on THIS map it is completely surrounded.

Mariopol can't hold out for very long before it is going to be entirely destroyed.

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Can you link to the particular post?

Also, is there any Uke counterattack in the South that we know of?

Ukraine is fighting for its life and the West is still making diplomatic virtue signaling gestures. We’re not serious nations. https://t.co/xQWba4zwrz

— Patrick Fox (@RealCynicalFox) March 21, 2022

The Guardian quotes the NATO intelligence official here: pic.twitter.com/i0NrFMm4o2

— Samuel Ramani (@SamRamani2) March 21, 2022

For the millionth time, this isn’t over. It’ll get worse before it gets better. Both sides are still conducting offensive operations. https://t.co/VDWxVdmKQQ

— Patrick Fox (@RealCynicalFox) March 21, 2022

Control here means the Russian hold key roads, bridges, buildings and landmarks.

BREAKING - Biden says there is "evolving intelligence" that Russia is exploring options for potential cyberattacks against U.S., urges private sector to harden their cyber defenses immediately - statement

— Phil Stewart (@phildstewart) March 21, 2022

Full statement pic.twitter.com/NFQsNDau7l

— OSINTtechnical (@Osinttechnical) March 21, 2022