***Russian - Ukraine War Tactical and Strategic Updates*** [Warning on OP]

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JobSecurity
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OKC~Ag
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Quote:

This is one of the strangest things I've seen in all this mess yet. Just pull your personal car up to the main battle tank on the interstate and have a casual conversation with the invaders.

Seems like the invaders would pull out their rifles and commandeer the car to get back to their unit, or the guy in the car would unload on the soldiers standing by the tank.

That conversation was more like - hey bud, I see your vehicle is broken down, need a lift? Nah, we've already got a friend headed this way to pick is up. Ok, by the way, we're going to kick your a**.
agree...
probably because Ukrainians and Russians share same familiarity and they are like brothers...it like us and candada...
jabberwalkie09
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NVM
El Hombre Mas Guapo
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***Fox reporting Turkey has NOT closed the black sea to Russian Military Ships***
BlackGoldAg2011
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3rd and 2 said:

Is it me or are the Ukrainian Generals geniuses or are the guys hitting the Russian logistics lines getting real-time sat data from NATO of where all the Russian assets are?

A lot of the big columns are showing up as traffic jams on google maps. Also with Russia blowing through areas to push fast rather than moving slowly securing an area before moving on, they are leaving a lot of potential observers able to call in troop movements.
hunter2012
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htxag09 said:

I enjoy reading WWII books and one of the biggest takeaways for me is always the resilience of those guys to be without food and shivering cold for so long.

Seems the US isn't the only country who's people have gotten weaker the last 50 years. Those soldiers made it through entire winters. These Russians aren't lasting 3 days.
Their reputation for winter ruggedness is way overblown, the Fins kicked their ass in the 30s largely due to lack of winter gear. They took that lesson to their fight with German. Same rules apply here, sounds like strategic command and logistics probably thought they would be partying in Kyiv by now.
BTHOB-98
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htxag09 said:

I enjoy reading WWII books and one of the biggest takeaways for me is always the resilience of those guys to be without food and shivering cold for so long.

Seems the US isn't the only country who's people have gotten weaker the last 50 years. Those soldiers made it through entire winters. These Russians aren't lasting 3 days.


This is a long way from over. Everything I'm reading is that this is only 1/3 of the Russian troops that were at the border. This is just the first offensive. They're just softening them up. There will be another wave.
SWCBonfire
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JobSecurity said:




How many of those are support types/ "REMFs"? What percentage of the combat-ready troops have deployed?
HTownAg98
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Good to see that supply chain issues can also impact the ability to fight.
HTownAg98
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BTHOB-98 said:

htxag09 said:

I enjoy reading WWII books and one of the biggest takeaways for me is always the resilience of those guys to be without food and shivering cold for so long.

Seems the US isn't the only country who's people have gotten weaker the last 50 years. Those soldiers made it through entire winters. These Russians aren't lasting 3 days.


This is a long way from over. Everything I'm reading is that this is only 1/3 of the Russian troops that were at the border. This is just the first offensive. They're just softening them up. There will be another wave.

Vlad's inability to gain control of the airspace has likely slowed things down a bit.
jabberwalkie09
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El Hombre Mas Guapo said:

***Fox reporting Turkey has NOT closed the black sea to Russian Military Ships***

Now that I think on it Iirc by convention Turkey would have to allow ships to transit back to their home port. Loop hole for Turkey?
htxag09
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BTHOB-98 said:

htxag09 said:

I enjoy reading WWII books and one of the biggest takeaways for me is always the resilience of those guys to be without food and shivering cold for so long.

Seems the US isn't the only country who's people have gotten weaker the last 50 years. Those soldiers made it through entire winters. These Russians aren't lasting 3 days.


This is a long way from over. Everything I'm reading is that this is only 1/3 of the Russian troops that were at the border. This is just the first offensive. They're just softening them up. There will be another wave.

Oh for sure. Not implying it's over or even that the majority of troops are doing this. Just amazing to me to hear of guys giving up because they're hungry and cold after a couple days.
depogs
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Might be true but, they are definitely encountering supply issues, so throwing more troops at the problem might exacerbate things.
These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.-Thomas Paine
jabberwalkie09
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htxag09 said:

BTHOB-98 said:

htxag09 said:

I enjoy reading WWII books and one of the biggest takeaways for me is always the resilience of those guys to be without food and shivering cold for so long.

Seems the US isn't the only country who's people have gotten weaker the last 50 years. Those soldiers made it through entire winters. These Russians aren't lasting 3 days.


This is a long way from over. Everything I'm reading is that this is only 1/3 of the Russian troops that were at the border. This is just the first offensive. They're just softening them up. There will be another wave.

Oh for sure. Not implying it's over or even that the majority of troops are doing this. Just amazing to me to hear of guys giving up because they're hungry and cold after a couple days.

Conscripts.
aeroag14
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Latest OSINT live stream.

Great place for real time updates.

https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1vOxwyeEyprGB?s=20
Ag In Ok
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Bet most are.
50k plus sent in along with conscripting healthcare workers - they are expecting some serious bloodshed. There won't be a baby boom in Russia after this. If urkraned pulls this off and sues for peace (gets their land back, especially Snake Island) they will experience a huge economic and baby boom. The west will make them rich enough to start buying or building their own hardware.
However i think the blood russia is willing to shed will eventually lead to victory. So long as they can afford to fight the war.
snizzler22
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Good point. It appears they also committed older equipment/tech and younger/inexperienced troops to absorb the initial defense. Long way to go for Ukraine unfortunately.
TheCougarHunter
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hunter2012 said:

htxag09 said:

I enjoy reading WWII books and one of the biggest takeaways for me is always the resilience of those guys to be without food and shivering cold for so long.

Seems the US isn't the only country who's people have gotten weaker the last 50 years. Those soldiers made it through entire winters. These Russians aren't lasting 3 days.
Their reputation for winter ruggedness is way overblown, the Fins kicked their ass in the 30s largely due to lack of winter gear. They took that lesson to their fight with German. Same rules apply here, sounds like strategic command and logistics probably thought they would be partying in Kyiv by now.


The Finns also had extensive multi-layered fortifications and fought the Russians off for over 4 months. It doesn't seem like the Ukes had a very comprehensive defense set up considering the Russians are in the capital already after 2 days. Granted they are fighting hard but losing most of your land and having your capital besieged within 48 hours isn't exactly "winning."
BTHOB-98
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So rather than reply to you guys individually I just thought I'd put it in the next post.

Logistical it's probably very very difficult to keep the supply chain going when you're moving at such a rapid pace. I would suspect that you would see refueling vehicles at some point and everybody gets up and running and then continues to press forward. With little to no resistance they have affectively I'll kick their coverage. They're way ahead of everybody else in the supply line. Looks to me like they are just waiting for the convoy to catch back up.
Ag In Ok
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The Baltic states are likely changing/ updating their doctrine.
GAC06
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https://twitter.com/IntelCrab/status/1497582023468273670?s=20&t=LWo7DfVKzrHD9zxhKRzRgA

More crispy Russian stuff
htownag10
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I wish we had some ambassadors like this
rally-cap
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TheCougarHunter said:

hunter2012 said:

htxag09 said:

I enjoy reading WWII books and one of the biggest takeaways for me is always the resilience of those guys to be without food and shivering cold for so long.

Seems the US isn't the only country who's people have gotten weaker the last 50 years. Those soldiers made it through entire winters. These Russians aren't lasting 3 days.
Their reputation for winter ruggedness is way overblown, the Fins kicked their ass in the 30s largely due to lack of winter gear. They took that lesson to their fight with German. Same rules apply here, sounds like strategic command and logistics probably thought they would be partying in Kyiv by now.


The Finns also had extensive multi-layered fortifications and fought the Russians off for over 4 months. It doesn't seem like the Ukes had a very comprehensive defense set up considering the Russians are in the capital already after 2 days. Granted they are fighting hard but losing most of your land and having your capital besieged within 48 hours isn't exactly "winning."
"most of your land"?



Kyiv is very close to the border with Belarus, so its not that hard to believe that they got there so quickly.
BTHOB-98
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TheCougarHunter said:

hunter2012 said:

htxag09 said:

I enjoy reading WWII books and one of the biggest takeaways for me is always the resilience of those guys to be without food and shivering cold for so long.

Seems the US isn't the only country who's people have gotten weaker the last 50 years. Those soldiers made it through entire winters. These Russians aren't lasting 3 days.
Their reputation for winter ruggedness is way overblown, the Fins kicked their ass in the 30s largely due to lack of winter gear. They took that lesson to their fight with German. Same rules apply here, sounds like strategic command and logistics probably thought they would be partying in Kyiv by now.


The Finns also had extensive multi-layered fortifications and fought the Russians off for over 4 months. It doesn't seem like the Ukes had a very comprehensive defense set up considering the Russians are in the capital already after 2 days. Granted they are fighting hard but losing most of your land and having your capital besieged within 48 hours isn't exactly "winning."


This isn't the day of the Napoleon and the Hitler advancements on Russia. If Europe and the US and all the allies wanted to go into Russia everyone would be well equipped with winter weather equipment. It's a different time. We just came out of a war were fighting in Afghanistan in harsh conditions. That being said I don't think I would want to go into Russia in October and November. If something like that was ever planned again it would have to begin in April or May and it would have to be swift. That's never going to happen though.
Eliminatus
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jabberwalkie09 said:



Out-****ing-standing Ukrainians!


That's a T72.

One thing just clicked in my head.

I haven't seen any ERA on any Russian vehicles yet in Ukraine. Credence that these are NOT first line units?

(Explosive Reactive Armor, brick shape layerings used to defeat shape charges. Russia absolutely has it and I have no idea why these tanks didn't have it.)
Michael Cera Palin
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JobSecurity said:



Has anyone seen more confirmation of this? I feel like this is REALLY big news but haven't seen anything besides this one tweet.
htownag10
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PWestAg18 said:

JobSecurity said:



Has anyone seen more confirmation of this? I feel like this is REALLY big news but haven't seen anything besides this one tweet.


That's the only thing I've found. I'm trying to find more info.
Robk
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PWestAg18 said:

JobSecurity said:



Has anyone seen more confirmation of this? I feel like this is REALLY big news but haven't seen anything besides this one tweet.
I think is premature and comes from Cyprus and Hungrary saying they are now good with it. We will see if Germany backs out now that those two countries are not providing cover.
ABATTBQ11
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BTHOB-98 said:

So rather than reply to you guys individually I just thought I'd put it in the next post.

Logistical it's probably very very difficult to keep the supply chain going when you're moving at such a rapid pace. I would suspect that you would see refueling vehicles at some point and everybody gets up and running and then continues to press forward. With little to no resistance they have affectively I'll kick their coverage. They're way ahead of everybody else in the supply line. Looks to me like they are just waiting for the convoy to catch back up.


Problem is that any vehicle out of gas is exposed and liable to get blown up. The fuel trucks also have to get to them, but that may be very hard when the enemy is packing guided antitank missiles and can ambush convoys. Russia had to gain control of the roads and everything around them to to really get those units moving again. It looks like they may have lost the initiative and stalled out.
YouBet
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richardag said:

YouBet said:

rgag12 said:

I don't get the notion that Russia is working against some clock. They've reached and almost encircled the enemy capital in less than 2 days. The president of Ukraine is wanting to die defending city, or so he portrays.

If the ultimate goal is to overthrow the government and install a pro-Russian puppet, what's the difference if it takes 3 days versus 7 days. The prestige?


The longer this has gone on the more support you've seen from the rest of the planet about supporting Ukraine. The longer this goes on the more NATO is going to actually do something. People love an underdog and the fact that Ukraine is showing fight has people rallying to their cause.

Russia knows this. If they don't end this quickly, they stand a chance of more and more direct support for Ukraine.
China is watching and seeing much of the world coalesce against this blatant illegal action. I am not an intel expert but would guess Putin is crapping in China's pool at this point.
Former MI6 head said exactly this yesterday. This was Xi's year to cement his permanency in China and he apparently wanted no external distractions or black eyes to potentially disrupt that.
FTAG 2000
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Eliminatus said:

jabberwalkie09 said:



Out-****ing-standing Ukrainians!


That's a T72.

One thing just clicked in my head.

I haven't seen any ERA on any Russian vehicles yet in Ukraine. Credence that these are NOT first line units?

(Explosive Reactive Armor, brick shape layerings used to defeat shape charges. Russia absolutely has it and I have no idea why these tanks didn't have it.)

Starting to think he sent in all his old armor first to take the brunt of the defenses (anti-tank weaponry), then will send in the new stuff when Ukraine anti-tank defenses are exhausted.
GarryowenAg
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Robk said:

PWestAg18 said:

JobSecurity said:



Has anyone seen more confirmation of this? I feel like this is REALLY big news but haven't seen anything besides this one tweet.
I think is premature and comes from Cyprus and Hungrary saying they are now good with it. We will see if Germany backs out now that those two countries are not providing cover.
Germany and France backed out last night.
richardag
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Kenneth_2003 said:

I'm no adept student of the matter, but I never figured Putin too be an inept tactician.
He was KGB not military and who knows how he surrounded himself with his current military leaders.
Ulysses90
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I saw a photo of what appeared to be a T80 with ERA on a thread yesterday and I cannot remember where it was on the map. It was a lone tank and not in a column with others visible in the photo.

Cool fact: front line ERA equipped tanks use the same diesel as the second line tanks and they depend upon the same supply lines!

Meaning: the fact that they didn't send in the front line units to fight on the front line means that they can't move them up now while their log trains are still screwed. It probably wouldn't have made a significant difference but that choice about the initial order of battle removed the Russians' most modern tank forces as a option for employment at least for the next few days.
BTHOB-98
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ABATTBQ11 said:

BTHOB-98 said:

So rather than reply to you guys individually I just thought I'd put it in the next post.

Logistical it's probably very very difficult to keep the supply chain going when you're moving at such a rapid pace. I would suspect that you would see refueling vehicles at some point and everybody gets up and running and then continues to press forward. With little to no resistance they have affectively I'll kick their coverage. They're way ahead of everybody else in the supply line. Looks to me like they are just waiting for the convoy to catch back up.


Problem is that any vehicle out of gas is exposed and liable to get blown up. The fuel trucks also have to get to them, but that may be very hard when the enemy is packing guided antitank missiles and can ambush convoys. Russia had to gain control of the roads and everything around them to to really get those units moving again. It looks like they may have lost the initiative and stalled out.


I agree (mostly) as long as there is a Ukrainia push to do all of that. But what we are seeing is unarmed citizens just asking the troops if they need a ride. Lol

All of the other things you mentioned about ambushes and blowing up equipment aren't happening everywhere in the country. Right now it appears the Ukrainian military are mostly hunkered down to protect their cities.which makes sense. Ukraine does not really have the military power to mount an offensive….unless the people are armed in the country sides and they fight back. Some kind of militias? I have no idea if that is possible or that is the case at this point. It probably is in some places. If it's not then the Russians are just sitting waiting for gas to come.
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