DannyDuberstein said:

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This guy learned to close by watching Brad Lidge pitch to Pujols in the NLCS

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Do you still have notes from voir dire?

aggiehawg said:

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This is getting ridiculous. A skateboard can't ever be used as a weapon? Really?

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Homie clearly never saw Kids.

https://wifflegif.com/gifs/642282-skateboarding-harold-hunter-gif

Agthatbuilds said:

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The prosecution has showed their ass today. Their entire narrative is on display and it shows a particular brand of evil.

These narcissistic buffoons are betting on their ability to spin a story complete independent of the facts and one entire made of hearsay

It's evil

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Can you imagine knowingly putting an innocent kid in jail like this? How TF do you live with yourself?

We as a society really need to start taking out the trash.

I think the lottery actually draws the 6 that are out not the whole jury

correct... that is what judge said.

Some Junkie Cosmonaut said:

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Agthatbuilds said:

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The prosecution has showed their ass today. Their entire narrative is on display and it shows a particular brand of evil.

These narcissistic buffoons are betting on their ability to spin a story complete independent of the facts and one entire made of hearsay

It's evil

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Can you imagine knowingly putting an innocent kid in jail like this? How TF do you live with yourself?

We as a society really need to start taking out the trash.

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Liberals: He's not innocent. He's an evil racist Trumpian. He must be stopped no matter what the law says.

Some Junkie Cosmonaut said:

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aggiehawg said:

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This is getting ridiculous. A skateboard can't ever be used as a weapon? Really?

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Homie clearly never saw Kids.

https://wifflegif.com/gifs/642282-skateboarding-harold-hunter-gif

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Already made that joke.

aggiehawg said:

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Martin Cash said:

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ShaggySLC said:

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Martin Cash said:

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So I haven't been following this real close. What is this lottery nonsense?

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18 jurors, 12 selected in a lottery pick tomorrow at 9

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That's insane. Alternate should be designated up front, not a lottery.

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No you don't let the alternates know they are alternates until the end. Otherwise they don't pay attention.

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I was an alternate a few years ago. Since I was picked last, I figured that I would be the alternate, but I didn't definitely know until the deliberations were about to begin and they escorted me to a room to sit alone. A few minutes later I was released.

At first it seemed like being an alternate would at least let you go early. However after hearing days of graphic testimony it left little satisfaction to not know the final verdict or to participate in the deliberations. I hope that my fellow jurors sent the ******* to prison for the rest of his life. The guy had raped his own daughters from the time they were five and seven repeatedly until he was caught years later.

The sad thing is that this crime nor the trial had any coverage in the local news. Perhaps this kind of thing is so common it is no longer newsworthy.

TAMUallen said:

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I think the lottery actually draws the 6 that are out not the whole jury

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Hmm. When I heard the judge make reference to it a few days ago he said pull the 12 but then again this judge does tend to misspeak quite often and it was late in the day.

So your number is not being called to be selected for the jury, your number is being called to be kicked to the curb? Seems harsher somehow.

So when does it go to the jury?

Sea Speed said:

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Some Junkie Cosmonaut said:

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aggiehawg said:

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This is getting ridiculous. A skateboard can't ever be used as a weapon? Really?

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Homie clearly never saw Kids.

https://wifflegif.com/gifs/642282-skateboarding-harold-hunter-gif

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Already made that joke.

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Sorry I was just skimming the thread and only reading responses with a decent amount of stars to catch up. But of course you and I were the ones to reference an obscure 1995 indie film haha.

They said today they will keep alternates in the courthouse, probably set up a (controlled) TV and other things for them to do while they are in there. They will probably be supervised by a deputy, so they won't be allowed to discuss the case amongst themselves, either.

I would absolutely hate to be an alternate.

Have had the weirdest boner for Chloe Sevigny ever since.

aggiehawg said:

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Martin Cash said:

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ShaggySLC said:

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Martin Cash said:

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So I haven't been following this real close. What is this lottery nonsense?

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18 jurors, 12 selected in a lottery pick tomorrow at 9

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That's insane. Alternate should be designated up front, not a lottery.

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No you don't let the alternates know they are alternates until the end. Otherwise they don't pay attention.

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Understand, but the usual procedure is that the alternates are known to the judge and lawyers at the time of jury selection. The jurors don't know who the alternates are until the jury retires.

Quote:

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So when does it go to the jury?

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They draw for the primary 12 member Jury and elect the foreman tonight. Will start deliberations tomorrow.

BusterAg said:

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Do you still have notes from voir dire?

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I had a thread on it. Search for it. I broke up my threads between voir dire/jury selection and then the actual Day 1 of when evidence began.

I know I noted in the thread how many gun owners there were.

I'm tired after today to go back and search myself.

Was there a motion for directed verdict? If there was, this judge is a fool for not granting it.

Martin Cash said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Martin Cash said:

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ShaggySLC said:

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Martin Cash said:

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So I haven't been following this real close. What is this lottery nonsense?

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18 jurors, 12 selected in a lottery pick tomorrow at 9

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That's insane. Alternate should be designated up front, not a lottery.

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No you don't let the alternates know they are alternates until the end. Otherwise they don't pay attention.

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Understand, but the usual procedure is that the alternates are known to the judge and lawyers at the time of jury selection. The jurors don't know who the alternates are until the jury retires.

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Not in Wisconsin they don't. Just another quirk in their state law.

Quote:

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They said today they will keep alternates in the courthouse, probably set up a (controlled) TV and other things for them to do while they are in there. They will probably be supervised by a deputy, so they won't be allowed to discuss the case amongst themselves, either.

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for what purpose. Once the jury starts to deliberate, the alternates can be of no further use.

My biggest concern is jury instructions and potential for confusion.

That's why I don't like that the defense didn't really get into the legal aspect of self-defense very much in his closing. He needed to have a chart or something simple for the jury to understand about self-defense, summarizing the instructions in a simple way. He mentioned no duty to retreat but only very briefly.

Fat guy was muddying the waters, intentionally, about what the law is. He kept talking about him having a duty to retreat and that he had ample room to go somewhere else instead of where he ended up when he shot Rosenbaum. The problem with that statement is he didn't mention that there's only a duty to retreat if Rittenhouse provoked the attack.

What I don't want to have happen is the jury being confused as to what Rittenhouse's duties were. There are so many charges and so many lesser includeds that the jury may get bogged down and miss the big picture. I do think the judge adding the clarifier at the last minute is helpful in that I believe he added a statement saying that if self-defense applies, it applies to all the charges including the lessers.

If the "everyone takes a beating once in a while" argument doesn't lose the fence sitters I'd be shocked.

Martin Cash said:

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Was there a motion for directed verdict? If there was, this judge is a fool for not granting it.

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Yes there was. But when the judge made the mistake of adding provocation to the jury charge, that question of fact for the jury screwed everything up. Judge has kept it under advisement.

He also has kept the defense motion for dismissal with prejudice due to prosecutorial abuse under advisement.

Aggie Jurist said:

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Quote:

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They said today they will keep alternates in the courthouse, probably set up a (controlled) TV and other things for them to do while they are in there. They will probably be supervised by a deputy, so they won't be allowed to discuss the case amongst themselves, either.

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for what purposed. Once the jury starts to deliberate, the alternates can be of no further use.

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Yes there is. If one gets sick or otherwise has to be dismissed, they will bring in an alternate and the judge will instruct them to start deliberations over again.

If a juror has to be dismissed for some sort of legal cause, such as inappropriate conversations about the case or something else, the judge could declare a mistrial but that would depend on the circumstance and whether other jurors were affected.

Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:
They said today they will keep alternates in the courthouse, probably set up a (controlled) TV and other things for them to do while they are in there. They will probably be supervised by a deputy, so they won't be allowed to discuss the case amongst themselves, either.

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for what purposed. Once the jury starts to deliberate, the alternates can be of no further use.

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In case a juror has to leave during deliberations due to whatever reason. (sickness, family emergency, etc.)

Spot the difference pic.twitter.com/5RSFIqMT31

— Greg Price (@greg_price11) November 15, 2021

Anyone know the make up of the jury other than sex? Age ranges?

My biggest concern is a case like this would be younger-ish females.

aggiehawg said:

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Martin Cash said:

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Was there a motion for directed verdict? If there was, this judge is a fool for not granting it.

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Yes there was. But when the judge made the mistake of adding provocation to the jury charge, that question of fact for the jury screwed everything up. Judge has kept it under advisement.

He also has kept the defense motion for dismissal with prejudice due to prosecutorial abuse under advisement.

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What does "kept under advisement" mean?
It looks like he is going through with deliberations. Once the jury reaches a verdict, can the judge change it?

I'd love to be wrong, but I feel like the most likely outcomes, in order of likelihood, are a hung jury, followed by guilty on a lesser included concerning the Rosenbaum shooting, followed by guilty on the original charge concerning the Rosenbaum shooting and the reckless endangerment of McGinnis, then acquittal of all charges. If the jury isn't finished with deliberations by lunch tomorrow, it'll be trouble for the defense.

aggiehawg said:

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Martin Cash said:

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ShaggySLC said:

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Martin Cash said:

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So I haven't been following this real close. What is this lottery nonsense?

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18 jurors, 12 selected in a lottery pick tomorrow at 9

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That's insane. Alternate should be designated up front, not a lottery.

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No you don't let the alternates know they are alternates until the end. Otherwise they don't pay attention.

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Not how it worked during my singular criminal felony jury trial experience, alternate was informed during jury selection and had to sit in the alternate's seat in the jury box.

Quote:

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What does "kept under advisement" mean?

It looks like he is going through with deliberations. Once the jury reaches a verdict, can the judge change it?

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Yes, he can change it. But a directed verdict can be appealed. A jury acquittal cannot.

Quote:

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That's why I don't like that the defense didn't really get into the legal aspect of self-defense very much in his closing. He needed to have a chart or something simple for the jury to understand about self-defense, summarizing the instructions in a simple way. He mentioned no duty to retreat but only very briefly.

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Uhm, the judge instructs the jury on the law, not the lawyers. That might have been too far over the line for even Schroeder. No one could have really predicted the s***show that charging the jury would turn into to have prepared such an exhibit before this morning. Maybe they could have worked one up while Binger was droning on and during lunch and then ask the judge if given the judge's own f***up that morning if they could show that to the jury?

Binger and Krauss would have come unglued of course and that would have caused even more delay, might not be worth it in the end? Trials come at you fast and making those kind of decisions are tough. Is it worth it?

And this judge is so wishy-washy at times as he was on this very subject.

AggieUSMC said:

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Quote:

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What does "kept under advisement" mean?

It looks like he is going through with deliberations. Once the jury reaches a verdict, can the judge change it?

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Yes, he can change it. But a directed verdict can be appealed. A jury acquittal cannot.

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Thanks for the clarification.