Times like this really highlight when they really shouldn't trust the suspect. Warning: this is pretty upsetting at the end. The guy plays dumb with them the whole time, too.

Waffledynamics said:

---

Times like this really highlight when they really shouldn't trust the suspect. Warning: this is pretty upsetting at the end. The guy plays dumb with them the whole time, too.

---

?

wtf

Did he get one of the officers weapons?

One died. I believe the walking sack of crap is awaiting trial iirc.

Read this today, not wholly applicable here but does make a very good point.

Quote:

---

"Currently, what is generally the requirement in most police departments in most states is kind of a sliding scale [of force] that leaves a great deal of discretion to officers," says Suzanne Luban, a clinical supervising attorney and lecturer at Stanford Law School. "So officers are told to use the degree of force they deem reasonably necessary under the circumstances, and usually the part that's not said, but it is included in that, is to attain compliance."

But as Luban notes, "compliance" isn't always worth potentially maiming or killing someone, especially when the underlying crime is a petty misdemeanor. She cites cases like Israel Hernandez-Llach, an 18-year-old graffiti artist who died after being tased by Miami Beach police in 2013. The Miami state attorney found the use of force was legally justified, although the Miami Beach Police Department later settled a civil lawsuit filed by Hernandez-Llach's family.

---

Regulating Use of Force

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/30/us/tulsa-oklahoma-police-dead-traffic-stop-shooting/index.html

Btw guys attorney wanted video released

Quote:

---

He says the video contradicts two things that Tulsa Police have said, one; that Ware fired three additional rounds into Sergeant. Craig Johnson, and two; that he walked away.

---

I can t say I agree with his claims.

Fenrir said:

---

Btw guys attorney wanted video released

Quote:

---

He says the video contradicts two things that Tulsa Police have said, one; that Ware fired three additional rounds into Sergeant. Craig Johnson, and two; that he walked away.

---

I can t say I agree with his claims.

---

So who else could have shot the officer? This is sick.

I will hit The Container Store

I'll loot Mahogany's.

This is sickening. That officer would still be alive if he hadn't given that POS a dozen chances to surrender. I guarantee you the officer was second guessing all of his training, experience, and current politics to conclude this dude is just high and drunk and wouldn't actually become a physical threat. This is war. Not against this people like Ware, but against the media that pushes the narrative that makes LEOs second guess themselves before pulling the trigger (whether it be a taser or lead).

My heart breaks for both officers and their families.

In hindsight what could they have done different? The damn tasers are worthless. Only thing I can think off is to sick a dog on the guy while holding him at gunpoint. He pulled that gun out of nowhere quick.

Wiry ***** tasers from The Hangover don't work. Give them the cattleprod devices. Up the amperage.

Edited. Add full liability protection if police use anything other than firearm to try and subdue.

The_Fox said:

---

Pelayo said:

---

Read this today, not wholly applicable here but does make a very good point.

Quote:

---

"Currently, what is generally the requirement in most police departments in most states is kind of a sliding scale [of force] that leaves a great deal of discretion to officers," says Suzanne Luban, a clinical supervising attorney and lecturer at Stanford Law School. "So officers are told to use the degree of force they deem reasonably necessary under the circumstances, and usually the part that's not said, but it is included in that, is to attain compliance."

But as Luban notes, "compliance" isn't always worth potentially maiming or killing someone, especially when the underlying crime is a petty misdemeanor. She cites cases like Israel Hernandez-Llach, an 18-year-old graffiti artist who died after being tased by Miami Beach police in 2013. The Miami state attorney found the use of force was legally justified, although the Miami Beach Police Department later settled a civil lawsuit filed by Hernandez-Llach's family.

---

Regulating Use of Force

---

As a former LEO who survived, my rule is comply or die. You want to fight, that happens in court.

---

FIFY and that is my experience as well.

Shooter needs to get the needle, but in hindsight the officers would have been better served holding back and waiting for more help. He clearly wasn't going anywhere, and even if they hadn't been shot all of that wasn't worth it over such a petty offense.

I'm guessing most of the time two officers are expected to handle one knucklehead. The only thing I can say tactically is they would have been better off trying to get the gun out of his hand than retreating but you never know how you're gonna react in that situation.

Infection_Ag11 said:

---

Shooter needs to get the needle, but in hindsight the officers would have been better served holding back and waiting for more help. He clearly wasn't going anywhere, and even if they hadn't been shot all of that wasn't worth it over such a petty offense.

---

I guess they should have let a few more show up, cuff him, put a spit hood on and wait for the ambulance. Ask the Rochester cops how that works,

JB99 said:

---

In hindsight what could they have done different?

---

Wait for more officers and not try to remove a fairly stout individual from the car by themselves, especially given the petty nature of the events that led to them being there in the first place.

They put themselves in what I perceive as unnecessary danger.