TXK said:So say or do something about it. How about that? Instead of moaning that people don't care about injustice against white people, do something. Otherwise don't get salty when other people care and do something when it matters to them.AustinAg2012 said:
He's white, so none of this matters.
SirLurksALot said:Ags4DaWin said:SirLurksALot said:agsalaska said:SirLurksALot said:agsalaska said:
Ok. And il save quoting it, but do you see how unreasonable all of that is when you put it together in real life and how the actions of the police all put together create an unwinnable situation for a guy that did nothing wrong?
Nothing wrong? The way the guy answered the door was absolutely wrong. It stupid to answer the door like that if you don't know who is outside. Even you suspect bad actors are outside it's still dumb to put yourself at a disadvantage like that.
He didn't ask who was there. He didn't ask for identification. He created the problem with his actions. The cops actions up to that point were absolutely normal.
From the perspective of the officer that shot I don't believe his actions were unreasonable.
You just made my point. If only identifying yourself one time, hiding so they cant see who you are, and blinding them with a flashlight is perfectly normal, then it shouldn't be.
Sure, i woukdnt have done what the guy did either. But dont pretend the cops did not create the situation to begin with.
How many times are cops expected to announce themselves in 10 seconds?
Why is it unreasonable for cops to protect themselves by not standing in the doorway? They have to identify themselves to give the person they are interacting with a chance to comply. Its part of the job. This is not a scenario that normally happens. Requiring cops to stand in the door way isn't going to save lives as most reasonable people aren't going to act like the subject did. This is dumb. 11 o'clock at night. maybe he has had people trying to break into his house? Maybe the neighbor that called made a fake call and they have been fighting and the neighbor threatened him? In all of those situations, arming yourself prior to opening the door especially if someone announces they are the cops but you have no visual confirmation because the person is intentionally staying out of sight of the peephole IS reasonable. It could be a trap. The point is that it is THE RESPONSIBILITY of the police to give citizens they encounter a chance to comply. When a police officer fails to adequately identify themselves AND IN FACT ACTS TO PREVENT THE CITIZEN FROM BEING ABLE TO IDENTIFY THEM (via hiding from visual sight, and then blinding them with a flashlight) and then fails to give the citizen a chance to comply, the responsibility for what happens should lie with the police officer.
Why is unreasonable to shine their flash light? As I said earlier, the light on briefly goes into the subjects eyes for a Split second. It doesn't appear they intentionally tired to blind him. bull**** and deep down you know it. that light was intended to blind him. it takes several minutes after a shine like that in the dead of night for your eyes to fully recover. it doesn't matter if the light was shined for a minute or 3 seconds, the victim's vision was impaired.
i get that u support the cops and want to give them the benefit of the doubt. i do to and i am usually the first to look for mitigating circumstances.
at the end of the day there are none here. the cops were wrong from the get go.
From a legal standpoint You're just wrong.
Cops only have to identify themselves in away they could reasonably expect the subject to understand. They did that here. They knocked on the door and loudly announced police. I don't know what else should be expected. They can't know the mindset of the subject or wether he heard their announ
The problem is that you're looking at the situation from the perspective of the subject. When determining if the use of force was justified the only thing that matter is the perspective of the officer who fired. Whether the subjects actions are reasonable or not is irrelevant. The officer can't know the subjects mindset or his motivations.
Wether you like it or not avoiding the fatal funnel is standard police training all over the country. You can't hold the cops Criminally liable for doing what they were trained to do.
You're last point is just ridiculous. What leads you to believe it they intentionally tried to blind him? As soon as the officer recognized the light was in the subjects face he lowered. Assuming it was intentional is just wishful thinking.
I actually don't always support cops. Look at my previous posting history and you'll see I've been quite critical of cops in other situations. In this situation from the officer's perspective I don't know how you can make the determination that his actions were unreasonable. The problem is the general public doesn't have a good understanding of the legal requirements for use of force or how such uses of force are judged.
PneumAg said:
I'm not blaming the victim because i think this is entirely on the cops. I hate cops who do this chicken **** bull****
But for me personally, if I'm not expecting somebody and I get a knock on my door at 11 p.m., I am definitely not answering. If it's the cops, they can announce themselves through the door.
No man we will perfectly understand. We just wont like it and will call for reform.InfantryAg said:
What a bunch of emotional 14 year old girls.
The situation sucked and there where mistakes made by all. As upsetting as it is to watch has no bearing on the legalities of this incident. Most of you are probably going to be very disappointed in the outcome.
And you won't even understand why the cop is probably going to walk.
Can you tell me how a use of force incident is judged for a cop? Or is it just going to be because of "the system?"agsalaska said:No man we will perfectly understand. We just wont like it and will call for reform.InfantryAg said:
What a bunch of emotional 14 year old girls.
The situation sucked and there where mistakes made by all. As upsetting as it is to watch has no bearing on the legalities of this incident. Most of you are probably going to be very disappointed in the outcome.
And you won't even understand why the cop is probably going to walk.
Is it a normal "use of force" to shoot a submissive, unarmed man?InfantryAg said:Can you tell me how a use of force incident is judged for a cop? Or is it just going to be because of "the system?"agsalaska said:No man we will perfectly understand. We just wont like it and will call for reform.InfantryAg said:
What a bunch of emotional 14 year old girls.
The situation sucked and there where mistakes made by all. As upsetting as it is to watch has no bearing on the legalities of this incident. Most of you are probably going to be very disappointed in the outcome.
And you won't even understand why the cop is probably going to walk.
So you don't know how this cop will be judged.BigRobSA said:Is it a normal "use of force" to shoot a submissive, unarmed man?InfantryAg said:Can you tell me how a use of force incident is judged for a cop? Or is it just going to be because of "the system?"agsalaska said:No man we will perfectly understand. We just wont like it and will call for reform.InfantryAg said:
What a bunch of emotional 14 year old girls.
The situation sucked and there where mistakes made by all. As upsetting as it is to watch has no bearing on the legalities of this incident. Most of you are probably going to be very disappointed in the outcome.
And you won't even understand why the cop is probably going to walk.
Once he got over being blinded upon opening his door and having a light shined in his face and realized it was the cops, he started dropping to the ground and, via the evidence given, had dropped his weapon.
There's no reasonable person that would acquit the cop.
Oh, I do. By unreasonable people. I'm simply telling you, an unreasonable person, how the others of us that are see things.InfantryAg said:So you don't know how this cop will be judged.BigRobSA said:Is it a normal "use of force" to shoot a submissive, unarmed man?InfantryAg said:Can you tell me how a use of force incident is judged for a cop? Or is it just going to be because of "the system?"agsalaska said:No man we will perfectly understand. We just wont like it and will call for reform.InfantryAg said:
What a bunch of emotional 14 year old girls.
The situation sucked and there where mistakes made by all. As upsetting as it is to watch has no bearing on the legalities of this incident. Most of you are probably going to be very disappointed in the outcome.
And you won't even understand why the cop is probably going to walk.
Once he got over being blinded upon opening his door and having a light shined in his face and realized it was the cops, he started dropping to the ground and, via the evidence given, had dropped his weapon.
There's no reasonable person that would acquit the cop.
I understand how you all are seeing this, and I don't disagree with how you feel.BigRobSA said:Oh, I do. By unreasonable people. I'm simply telling you, an unreasonable person, how the others of us that are see things.InfantryAg said:So you don't know how this cop will be judged.BigRobSA said:Is it a normal "use of force" to shoot a submissive, unarmed man?InfantryAg said:Can you tell me how a use of force incident is judged for a cop? Or is it just going to be because of "the system?"agsalaska said:No man we will perfectly understand. We just wont like it and will call for reform.InfantryAg said:
What a bunch of emotional 14 year old girls.
The situation sucked and there where mistakes made by all. As upsetting as it is to watch has no bearing on the legalities of this incident. Most of you are probably going to be very disappointed in the outcome.
And you won't even understand why the cop is probably going to walk.
Once he got over being blinded upon opening his door and having a light shined in his face and realized it was the cops, he started dropping to the ground and, via the evidence given, had dropped his weapon.
There's no reasonable person that would acquit the cop.
There was no threat to life by anyone other than ShootyMcShooterton.
If this cop walks, that is an indictment of that "specific law" and gives socialist morons like BLM that much more fuel.InfantryAg said:I understand how you all are seeing this, and I don't disagree with how you feel.BigRobSA said:Oh, I do. By unreasonable people. I'm simply telling you, an unreasonable person, how the others of us that are see things.InfantryAg said:So you don't know how this cop will be judged.BigRobSA said:Is it a normal "use of force" to shoot a submissive, unarmed man?InfantryAg said:Can you tell me how a use of force incident is judged for a cop? Or is it just going to be because of "the system?"agsalaska said:No man we will perfectly understand. We just wont like it and will call for reform.InfantryAg said:
What a bunch of emotional 14 year old girls.
The situation sucked and there where mistakes made by all. As upsetting as it is to watch has no bearing on the legalities of this incident. Most of you are probably going to be very disappointed in the outcome.
And you won't even understand why the cop is probably going to walk.
Once he got over being blinded upon opening his door and having a light shined in his face and realized it was the cops, he started dropping to the ground and, via the evidence given, had dropped his weapon.
There's no reasonable person that would acquit the cop.
There was no threat to life by anyone other than ShootyMcShooterton.
I'm saying it has no bearing on how this case will be judged. There is specific law that determines the outcome, and if you don't have a basic understanding of it, you have no way of understanding the outcome.
InfantryAg said:I understand how you all are seeing this, and I don't disagree with how you feel.BigRobSA said:Oh, I do. By unreasonable people. I'm simply telling you, an unreasonable person, how the others of us that are see things.InfantryAg said:So you don't know how this cop will be judged.BigRobSA said:Is it a normal "use of force" to shoot a submissive, unarmed man?InfantryAg said:Can you tell me how a use of force incident is judged for a cop? Or is it just going to be because of "the system?"agsalaska said:No man we will perfectly understand. We just wont like it and will call for reform.InfantryAg said:
What a bunch of emotional 14 year old girls.
The situation sucked and there where mistakes made by all. As upsetting as it is to watch has no bearing on the legalities of this incident. Most of you are probably going to be very disappointed in the outcome.
And you won't even understand why the cop is probably going to walk.
Once he got over being blinded upon opening his door and having a light shined in his face and realized it was the cops, he started dropping to the ground and, via the evidence given, had dropped his weapon.
There's no reasonable person that would acquit the cop.
There was no threat to life by anyone other than ShootyMcShooterton.
I'm saying it has no bearing on how this case will be judged. There is specific law that determines the outcome, and if you don't have a basic understanding of it, you have no way of understanding the outcome.
TxTarpon said:I wouldn't go that far.Quote:
Of course you are....Hitler!
He does pile posters that post about bad apples as "anti-cop".
He pulled that crap on my earlier this week.
BigRobSA said:If this cop walks, that is an indictment of that "specific law" and gives socialist morons like BLM that much more fuel.InfantryAg said:I understand how you all are seeing this, and I don't disagree with how you feel.BigRobSA said:Oh, I do. By unreasonable people. I'm simply telling you, an unreasonable person, how the others of us that are see things.InfantryAg said:So you don't know how this cop will be judged.BigRobSA said:Is it a normal "use of force" to shoot a submissive, unarmed man?InfantryAg said:Can you tell me how a use of force incident is judged for a cop? Or is it just going to be because of "the system?"agsalaska said:No man we will perfectly understand. We just wont like it and will call for reform.InfantryAg said:
What a bunch of emotional 14 year old girls.
The situation sucked and there where mistakes made by all. As upsetting as it is to watch has no bearing on the legalities of this incident. Most of you are probably going to be very disappointed in the outcome.
And you won't even understand why the cop is probably going to walk.
Once he got over being blinded upon opening his door and having a light shined in his face and realized it was the cops, he started dropping to the ground and, via the evidence given, had dropped his weapon.
There's no reasonable person that would acquit the cop.
There was no threat to life by anyone other than ShootyMcShooterton.
I'm saying it has no bearing on how this case will be judged. There is specific law that determines the outcome, and if you don't have a basic understanding of it, you have no way of understanding the outcome.
In real-world terms, that cop murdered that man. Period. I understand that he'll never even be up for that charge, but if I and a friend went to his door, knocked on it and the exact same thing went down, I'd be put to death...and rightly so. Taking a couple CC CJ classes shouldn't garner him any special defense, and yet...here we are.
Then he shouldn't be a cop if he's a "slow" thinker. The job requires a little bit of....shall I say "not being a *****".cuz-i-can said:BigRobSA said:If this cop walks, that is an indictment of that "specific law" and gives socialist morons like BLM that much more fuel.InfantryAg said:I understand how you all are seeing this, and I don't disagree with how you feel.BigRobSA said:Oh, I do. By unreasonable people. I'm simply telling you, an unreasonable person, how the others of us that are see things.InfantryAg said:So you don't know how this cop will be judged.BigRobSA said:Is it a normal "use of force" to shoot a submissive, unarmed man?InfantryAg said:Can you tell me how a use of force incident is judged for a cop? Or is it just going to be because of "the system?"agsalaska said:No man we will perfectly understand. We just wont like it and will call for reform.InfantryAg said:
What a bunch of emotional 14 year old girls.
The situation sucked and there where mistakes made by all. As upsetting as it is to watch has no bearing on the legalities of this incident. Most of you are probably going to be very disappointed in the outcome.
And you won't even understand why the cop is probably going to walk.
Once he got over being blinded upon opening his door and having a light shined in his face and realized it was the cops, he started dropping to the ground and, via the evidence given, had dropped his weapon.
There's no reasonable person that would acquit the cop.
There was no threat to life by anyone other than ShootyMcShooterton.
I'm saying it has no bearing on how this case will be judged. There is specific law that determines the outcome, and if you don't have a basic understanding of it, you have no way of understanding the outcome.
In real-world terms, that cop murdered that man. Period. I understand that he'll never even be up for that charge, but if I and a friend went to his door, knocked on it and the exact same thing went down, I'd be put to death...and rightly so. Taking a couple CC CJ classes shouldn't garner him any special defense, and yet...here we are.
See gun...see threat...react...who's in danger...react to threat...some folks minds react differently or slower than others...
InfantryAg said:I understand how you all are seeing this, and I don't disagree with how you feel.BigRobSA said:Oh, I do. By unreasonable people. I'm simply telling you, an unreasonable person, how the others of us that are see things.InfantryAg said:So you don't know how this cop will be judged.BigRobSA said:Is it a normal "use of force" to shoot a submissive, unarmed man?InfantryAg said:Can you tell me how a use of force incident is judged for a cop? Or is it just going to be because of "the system?"agsalaska said:No man we will perfectly understand. We just wont like it and will call for reform.InfantryAg said:
What a bunch of emotional 14 year old girls.
The situation sucked and there where mistakes made by all. As upsetting as it is to watch has no bearing on the legalities of this incident. Most of you are probably going to be very disappointed in the outcome.
And you won't even understand why the cop is probably going to walk.
Once he got over being blinded upon opening his door and having a light shined in his face and realized it was the cops, he started dropping to the ground and, via the evidence given, had dropped his weapon.
There's no reasonable person that would acquit the cop.
There was no threat to life by anyone other than ShootyMcShooterton.
I'm saying it has no bearing on how this case will be judged. There is specific law that determines the outcome, and if you don't have a basic understanding of it, you have no way of understanding the outcome.
cuz-i-can said:BigRobSA said:If this cop walks, that is an indictment of that "specific law" and gives socialist morons like BLM that much more fuel.InfantryAg said:I understand how you all are seeing this, and I don't disagree with how you feel.BigRobSA said:Oh, I do. By unreasonable people. I'm simply telling you, an unreasonable person, how the others of us that are see things.InfantryAg said:So you don't know how this cop will be judged.BigRobSA said:Is it a normal "use of force" to shoot a submissive, unarmed man?InfantryAg said:Can you tell me how a use of force incident is judged for a cop? Or is it just going to be because of "the system?"agsalaska said:No man we will perfectly understand. We just wont like it and will call for reform.InfantryAg said:
What a bunch of emotional 14 year old girls.
The situation sucked and there where mistakes made by all. As upsetting as it is to watch has no bearing on the legalities of this incident. Most of you are probably going to be very disappointed in the outcome.
And you won't even understand why the cop is probably going to walk.
Once he got over being blinded upon opening his door and having a light shined in his face and realized it was the cops, he started dropping to the ground and, via the evidence given, had dropped his weapon.
There's no reasonable person that would acquit the cop.
There was no threat to life by anyone other than ShootyMcShooterton.
I'm saying it has no bearing on how this case will be judged. There is specific law that determines the outcome, and if you don't have a basic understanding of it, you have no way of understanding the outcome.
In real-world terms, that cop murdered that man. Period. I understand that he'll never even be up for that charge, but if I and a friend went to his door, knocked on it and the exact same thing went down, I'd be put to death...and rightly so. Taking a couple CC CJ classes shouldn't garner him any special defense, and yet...here we are.
See gun...see threat...react...who's in danger...react to threat...some folks minds react differently or slower than others...
Except he has an inalienable right to possess that gun, especially at his home. I bet those cops also swore an oath to protect that right. Unless the cops have a history with this guy, that officer needs to be locked up, his actions are inexcusable and not legally justifiable.cuz-i-can said:
I agree with you...a game warden won't indescribably shoot someone they encounter with a firearm...some big city cops have to deal with the people in apartments with guns...huge difference...
Actual conversation:Quote:
Been pulled over by DPS handful of times while carrying.
