nortex97 said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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Fauci has been nothing short of fantastic

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Great call here, Doc!

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This is why I think you are deserving of mockery. Your unquestioning belief in Fauci, to be completely clear. He is, and has been since the HIV epidemic, a disgrace to public health and the position which he holds.

People who hold him up as a 'fantastic' exemplar of medical science, as professionals themselves, should be ridiculed, imho. Getting distracted with HCQ and ivermectin is unproductive.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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Here are some of the larger studies and meta-analysis on HCQ of varying types with varying endpoints, and articles discussing those findings:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2012410

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/pharmacy/largest-hydroxychloroquine-study-to-date-finds-no-benefit-for-covid-19.html

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v1

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2022926

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/05/hydroxychloroquine-had-no-benefit-for-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-possibly-closing-door-to-use-of-drug/

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-77748-x

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Don't every single one of these studies take patients who were already in bad shape, in the hospital or on vents? Did I miss something?

More like snakeoil_ag11

Please don't bother the good doctor with these silly facts.

Sad part is he used those studies to tell people who were not in nearly that condition that those drugs works not help.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Humility is a great trait. Try it out some time.

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I'm not going to have my character dragged through the mud based on lies and conspiracy theories. Many here know who I am as I've offered that information up in an attempt to help some of you, and I have received some very hateful messages and emails from Texags users who got my info second hand as a result. So if I come off as arrogant in my defense of my actions, you'll have to forgive me.

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You could help out your character by admitting where you have been wrong. I think you also have been adamant that COVID was not man made, slapping down anyone who has suggested otherwise.

He earned said "dunking". Your whining would be more accepted by your fellow travelers on the rona board.

P.C. Principal said:

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i'll trust the doctor with over 50 years experience over the politician stating unproven claims as fact.

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How'd that work out for you?

dermdoc said:

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For what it is worth I trust Dr. Fauci implicitly.

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Oh my. Amazing what 15 months will do for implicit trust. Can't wait to see some thing I wrote a year ago.

peachbasket said:

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I don't recall Dr Fauci making personal gains from his past work on stemming AIDS, Ebola, SARS, MERS, and other epidemics. He is professionally apolitical.

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LOL

nortex97 said:

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Fauci is a politician first, physician way down the line. He's never seen a camera/microphone he didn't love. He's been 'ok' in this but I can't stand his type.

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Bingo!

Infection_Ag11 said:

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Well I was going to ignore the bait, but this piece of baseless, condescending character assassination was simply too much to ignore:

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Infection_Ag11 continues to post, defiantly, that HCQ and Ivermectin do not work.

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Because the body of available evidence suggests they do not.

First, with respect to HCQ, no medication in the history of modern medicine was so extensively studied for a single indication in so short a period of time WITHOUT there being any clear benefit. In other words, it was given more chances than any medication reasonably should be to prove it's worth and still failed. Studies were done in early disease, late disease, as a means of prophylaxis, with zinc and/or azithromycin and everything in between. The claims that this drug was ignored by the medical establishment is a clear and unambiguous lie. It is a lie propagated, as you would say, for political purposes.

Here are some of the larger studies and meta-analysis on HCQ of varying types with varying endpoints, and articles discussing those findings:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2012410

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/pharmacy/largest-hydroxychloroquine-study-to-date-finds-no-benefit-for-covid-19.html

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v1

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2022926

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/05/hydroxychloroquine-had-no-benefit-for-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-possibly-closing-door-to-use-of-drug/

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-77748-x

The body of quality evidence OVERWHELMINGLY shows no benefit. I can't stress enough how conclusive the data is in this setting in the context of drug trials.

Now, with respect to ivermectin, there is a lower volume of data than for HCQ and most of what exists is low quality (under-powered, poorly determined end points, etc.). However, the body of what does exists suggests no benefit especially when only factoring in the higher quality evidence. Some smaller studies do suggest a small decrease is duration of some symptoms such as loss of taste and smell, but generally lack meaningful clinical endpoints to warrant use. The largest and best study to date of nearly 500 patients suggests no benefit.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2777389

Perhaps more damning than the studies however, and this is important, is the science behind the proposed mechanism. The premise of ivermectin benefit comes from some laboratory data suggesting in vitro inhibition and from mouse models where they gave mice hilariously obscene doses. The problem with this is the tissue and serum concentrations required to achieve this are a FULL ORDER F MAGNITUDE higher than those achievable in the human body even with massively supratherapeutic and toxic doses of the medication. In vivo, it is simply impossible to achieve this let alone safely.

https://ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2021/05/26/bmjebm-2021-111678

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Ivermectin may have saved millions of lives in India just this month.

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There is no evidence to support this other than the circumstantial fact that in SOME provinces there was a LOOSE temporal correlation with a decline in cases. Many places didnt see this temporal association, in many places the decline in cases began BEFORE large scale use of ivermectin, and HCQ was already being widely used prior to May. Most doctors and heath authorities in India acknowledge there is no scientific reason for them to be doing this and that they are simply caving to public and government pressure. I understand many of you get your scientific opinions from Facebook articles, but these rarely hold up to even basic scrutiny.

Here's a quality (though admittedly long and dense) breakdown of the situation:

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/no-data-available-to-suggest-a-link-between-indias-reduction-of-covid-19-cases-and-the-use-of-ivermectin-jim-hoft-gateway-pundit/

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My own father struggled to recover from Covid until he was given HCQ to facilitate the effectiveness of Zinc.

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I'm very happy your father recovered, truly I am, but he was eventually going to recover regardless of whether or not he got HCQ. Moreover, it sounds like he received HCQ long after even the proposed time frame where those who wanted it to be effective claimed it would be.

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Their politics were placed before medicine, just like Fauci has now been proven to have done, as well as many pharmacists.

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I voted for Donald Trump, twice, and have never voted for a democrat in any state or national election in my life. I'm just as disturbed by the Biden administration's policies as you are, and as a high earner I stand to lose a lot from democrats being elected to the executive and legislative branches. I have no political reason to want to make Trump or conservatives look bad because I am one. Moreover, it would be GREAT if these drugs worked. they are cheap and widely available. I'd give them if they worked. They just don't appear to.

Finally, the fatal flaw in this conspiracy theory is the one class of drug that has shown tremendous benefit for very ill COVID patients: Steroids. They are very cheap, widely available, Trump touted them and doctors were nervous about them in the beginning because of prior data in treating viral illnesses with them. Under your ideas about why things are used and why they arent, we should be shunning this as well. THE DIFFERENCE IS THE DATA SHOWS THEY WORK, OVERHWHELMINGLY SO.

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I wonder how many patients asked about HCQ and Ivermectin and Infection_Ag11 panned it.

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Maybe two dozen or so if I had to guess. I shared similar information with them and provided similar data to what I'm sharing now, including printing off studies for them and having prolonged discussions with them. All were very reasonable, understanding and accepting of this information. None of these patients died or had any severe manifestations of COVID to my recollection (not that that is a meaningful metric).

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God forbid they died because of your arrogance. Or is it ignorance? Maybe both.

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If you're going to attack someone's morals, character, and motivation, try and not be so very wrong on literally every single point you attempt to make.

I apologize if some of this comes off as crass, but I won't sit here and be lectured about my care for or dedication to patients by someone who has spent the last 18 months *****ing from behind a computer. I've seen so many COVID19 patients during this time I long ago stopped keeping count, and have done my best for them with the best evidence available to the medical community.

At the end of the day, the only people in this thread who are desperately pushing medication advice on the basis of politics are those who want these drugs to work in spite of the evidence.

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As others have pointed out, every one of these studies involves people already hospitalized, none of them include zinc either. Study number three is a study of study number 1!?! Lol.

What many here have known since early on, is that HCQ Zinc and a Zpack have shown tremendous results. Thats what I got, and three days of symptoms, back at work at full strength on day 11. This whole time, people have been quoting studies that showed a malaria drug been given to bedridden Covid patients and NONE of them mention Zinc and steroids. Are you attempting to show your care for patients by showing them studies based on people already hospitalized and not including the rest of the cocktail? "Do you" I guess, but this is the same **** sandwich anti HCQ people have been peddling since the get go. Also, my personal DR of 31 years vehemently disagrees with you. He showed me actually relevant studies and data that matched my situation, and went ahead and also prescribed a steroid administered through a nebulizer due to my history of asthma. He even told me he'd have to manufacture a diagnosis to get idiot pharmacists in Austin to even fill the script because those ******s were refusing to fill the script. The result was I've had hangovers worse than Covid. My Dad went to a DR in Austin that told him nothing works and if he starts dying go to the hospital. Maybe they'd put him on a ventilator since that proved so effective (eye roll). After 10 days of constant low grade fever that kept him quarantined he added HCQ to his Zinc and boom! Back at work in three days. Also please don't demean my experiences as "anecdotal" I believe the correct phrase is "lived experiences".

Kool said:

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COMPLETELY second-hand information, but a colleague of mine trained under him at Emory and the CDC and has collaborated with him for drug studies in the past. He has zero respect for him. The longer he speaks and changes his tune, the more of a politician and the less of a physician he seems to become.

There is nothing wrong with saying "I don't know" or "we don't know" from time to time. Fauci seems to have no problem answering with certainty, only to change his answer a few days later. That is not confidence inspiring.

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Yep!

Unfortunately, the person of record cannot say a simple, "I'm sorry, I could have been mistaken with my trust in Faucci and my inflexibility in trying alternative therapies in dealing with Covid ". IMO, that would go much further to ingratiating yourself with other posters than coming on here, doubling down and saying "see, see....I have all these fkg studies!!"
Laughable.

Sorry Infection Ag - when I've spoken with at least a dozen people now who took Ivermectin in the middle of Covid, and 90% had the same experience I had - near immediate relief of all symptoms- I call BS on your data and wouldn't even wipe my ass with it.

Unfortunately like most physicians you have an agenda of blindly defending the medical community in general.

Wycliffe called it early. He's pretty great at reading the God forsaken white liberal beta male.

Infection Ag and BMX

This thread is an absolutely unbelievable beating.

It's ok to be wrong. Have some humility. Nobody thinks you're a bad doctor.

Tear Down This Wall said:

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This thread is an absolutely unbelievable beating.

It's ok to be wrong. Have some humility. Nobody thinks you're a bad doctor.

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I'm just gonna go ahead and say that your last statement is false. Anyone who says "Fauci has been nothing short of fantastic" is someone I wouldn't trust to remove trash from my curb, let alone diagnose me or prescribe medication..

Same for someone who ignores evidence of the utility of Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine against covid. The data supporting those drugs is everywhere. To ignore it is to have an agenda that represents someone other than the patient.

Edit to include a thread about HCQ started by captkirk. More evidence that it works against covid.

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3202671

P.C. Principal said:

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i'll trust the doctor with over 50 years experience over the politician stating unproven claims as fact.

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30 stars. This is what is wrong with America.

We knew at the time there was 1 covid lab in China and tens of thousands of wet markets, yet Americans believed the wet market theory and not the "lab conspiracy theory". Hatred for Trump outweighed simple mathmatics. People are incapable of thinking in basic probabilities because they are so deeply emotionally invested in their team.

thirdcoast said:

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P.C. Principal said:

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i'll trust the doctor with over 50 years experience over the politician stating unproven claims as fact.

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30 stars. This is what is wrong with America.

We knew at the time there was 1 covid lab in China and tens of thousands of wet markets, yet Americans believed the wet market theory and not the "lab conspiracy theory". Hatred for Trump outweighed simple mathmatics. People are incapable of thinking in basic probabilities because they are so deeply emotionally invested in their team.

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This. Long story short, roughly half of America is brainwashed past the point of no return.

Idiots everywhere in Houston still wearing masks everywhere I go even though they're not asked to and it has been revealed that they are basically useless. It truly has become liberal t@rd flare.

At the very least these emails should be waking everyone the hell up.

TexAg91 said:

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dermdoc said:

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For what it is worth I trust Dr. Fauci implicitly.

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Oh my. Amazing what 15 months will do for implicit trust. Can't wait to see some thing I wrote a year ago.

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Yep this whole thing has been very disappointing. And revealing.