DrEvazanPhD said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Don't call him back. He adds nothing to the board.

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Very few of the lefties do. Most just want to troll, or spread outright lies. Or in one particular case, get you banned because you said something he doesn't like.

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They just like to be the Grover Dill to any leftist liar's Scut Farkas. They know nothing and add nothing just a lot of "Yeah, you tell 'im!" Reality smacks them in the face, not that they acknowledge it.

BuffsAg47 said:

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No.

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Hahahahahahahaha.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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Ah, the bootlickers...

Some of these betas would test positive for Fauci's DNA if you did a cheek swab test.

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Let's not bring Kamala into it.

Interesting thread given the news of the day with Fauci, HCQ, and Ivermectin.

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3202312/replies/59403674#59403674

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Lol at all this coming unraveled after 60%+ of people scrambled to get injected with an experimental vaccine.

We are the dumbest people alive.

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Go to LA...

lol, now go dunk on the Corona board... YOU CAN'T! cause you get banned dunking baaaaaybies.

I'm not really interested in dunking on them over there, but I have pointed out to them (yet again) that this was certainly not a natural virus, and the hypocrisy/self-interest exemplified by Fauci is even linked to a TAMU prof.

https://texags.com/forums/84/topics/3198635/replies/59405813

From another thread here but I think it should be memorialized here as well;

FYI, the full 2-hour interview of Kary Mullis, inventor of PCR tech, is now available, in which Mullis has choice words about Anthony Fauci and his misuse of PCR testing during AIDS. Worth watching in full: https://t.co/YmITIYAV95pic.twitter.com/tUTm69hCR4

— Michael P Senger (@MichaelPSenger) June 1, 2021

lol at reading some of the initial responses from the usual suspects. so much false smugness confidence.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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Fauci has been nothing short of fantastic

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This aged like a fine wine!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

This bump and subsequent "dunking" on Infection Ag 11 is pretty pathetic even by this board's standards.

I will still never understand this board's obsession with HCQ and ivermectin being the COVID cure that every doctor skipped out on because they hated Trump, while at the same time proclaiming that COVID is the sniffles and no one dies from it anyway.

Well I was going to ignore the bait, but this piece of baseless, condescending character assassination was simply too much to ignore:

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Infection_Ag11 continues to post, defiantly, that HCQ and Ivermectin do not work.

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Because the body of available evidence suggests they do not.

First, with respect to HCQ, no medication in the history of modern medicine was so extensively studied for a single indication in so short a period of time WITHOUT there being any clear benefit. In other words, it was given more chances than any medication reasonably should be to prove it's worth and still failed. Studies were done in early disease, late disease, as a means of prophylaxis, with zinc and/or azithromycin and everything in between. The claims that this drug was ignored by the medical establishment is a clear and unambiguous lie. It is a lie propagated, as you would say, for political purposes.

Here are some of the larger studies and meta-analysis on HCQ of varying types with varying endpoints, and articles discussing those findings:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2012410

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/pharmacy/largest-hydroxychloroquine-study-to-date-finds-no-benefit-for-covid-19.html

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v1

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2022926

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/05/hydroxychloroquine-had-no-benefit-for-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-possibly-closing-door-to-use-of-drug/

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-77748-x

The body of quality evidence OVERWHELMINGLY shows no benefit. I can't stress enough how conclusive the data is in this setting in the context of drug trials.

Now, with respect to ivermectin, there is a lower volume of data than for HCQ and most of what exists is low quality (under-powered, poorly determined end points, etc.). However, the body of what does exists suggests no benefit especially when only factoring in the higher quality evidence. Some smaller studies do suggest a small decrease is duration of some symptoms such as loss of taste and smell, but generally lack meaningful clinical endpoints to warrant use. The largest and best study to date of nearly 500 patients suggests no benefit.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2777389

Perhaps more damning than the studies however, and this is important, is the science behind the proposed mechanism. The premise of ivermectin benefit comes from some laboratory data suggesting in vitro inhibition and from mouse models where they gave mice hilariously obscene doses. The problem with this is the tissue and serum concentrations required to achieve this are a FULL ORDER F MAGNITUDE higher than those achievable in the human body even with massively supratherapeutic and toxic doses of the medication. In vivo, it is simply impossible to achieve this let alone safely.

https://ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2021/05/26/bmjebm-2021-111678

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Ivermectin may have saved millions of lives in India just this month.

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There is no evidence to support this other than the circumstantial fact that in SOME provinces there was a LOOSE temporal correlation with a decline in cases. Many places didnt see this temporal association, in many places the decline in cases began BEFORE large scale use of ivermectin, and HCQ was already being widely used prior to May. Most doctors and heath authorities in India acknowledge there is no scientific reason for them to be doing this and that they are simply caving to public and government pressure. I understand many of you get your scientific opinions from Facebook articles, but these rarely hold up to even basic scrutiny.

Here's a quality (though admittedly long and dense) breakdown of the situation:

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/no-data-available-to-suggest-a-link-between-indias-reduction-of-covid-19-cases-and-the-use-of-ivermectin-jim-hoft-gateway-pundit/

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My own father struggled to recover from Covid until he was given HCQ to facilitate the effectiveness of Zinc.

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I'm very happy your father recovered, truly I am, but he was eventually going to recover regardless of whether or not he got HCQ. Moreover, it sounds like he received HCQ long after even the proposed time frame where those who wanted it to be effective claimed it would be.

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Their politics were placed before medicine, just like Fauci has now been proven to have done, as well as many pharmacists.

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I voted for Donald Trump, twice, and have never voted for a democrat in any state or national election in my life. I'm just as disturbed by the Biden administration's policies as you are, and as a high earner I stand to lose a lot from democrats being elected to the executive and legislative branches. I have no political reason to want to make Trump or conservatives look bad because I am one. Moreover, it would be GREAT if these drugs worked. they are cheap and widely available. I'd give them if they worked. They just don't appear to.

Finally, the fatal flaw in this conspiracy theory is the one class of drug that has shown tremendous benefit for very ill COVID patients: Steroids. They are very cheap, widely available, Trump touted them and doctors were nervous about them in the beginning because of prior data in treating viral illnesses with them. Under your ideas about why things are used and why they arent, we should be shunning this as well. THE DIFFERENCE IS THE DATA SHOWS THEY WORK, OVERHWHELMINGLY SO.

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I wonder how many patients asked about HCQ and Ivermectin and Infection_Ag11 panned it.

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Maybe two dozen or so if I had to guess. I shared similar information with them and provided similar data to what I'm sharing now, including printing off studies for them and having prolonged discussions with them. All were very reasonable, understanding and accepting of this information. None of these patients died or had any severe manifestations of COVID to my recollection (not that that is a meaningful metric).

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God forbid they died because of your arrogance. Or is it ignorance? Maybe both.

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If you're going to attack someone's morals, character, and motivation, try and not be so very wrong on literally every single point you attempt to make.

I apologize if some of this comes off as crass, but I won't sit here and be lectured about my care for or dedication to patients by someone who has spent the last 18 months *****ing from behind a computer. I've seen so many COVID19 patients during this time I long ago stopped keeping count, and have done my best for them with the best evidence available to the medical community.

At the end of the day, the only people in this thread who are desperately pushing medication advice on the basis of politics are those who want these drugs to work in spite of the evidence.

Carl Hungus said:

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Forum Troll said:

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This bump and subsequent "dunking" on Infection Ag 11 is pretty pathetic even by this board's standards.

I will still never understand this board's obsession with HCQ and ivermectin being the COVID cure that every doctor skipped out on because they hated Trump, while at the same time proclaiming that COVID is the sniffles and no one dies from it anyway.

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Well let's not create straw men now. For those of us not 90 or 500lbs (or a dentist) it is the ****ing sniffles. For the fatty boombas and octogenarians, it's much worse. Many people have and COULD have benefited from HCQ and or Ivermectin, but didn't because stubborn arrogant dick bags decided to let politics cloud their judgement and infect their lives. They deserved to be dunked on forever, as often as we would like, to eternity. Shame on them. I don't mean that as a light scolding, I meant it for real, they should live in shame. Im disgusted by them. They are sorry despicable people

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Again, what is my political goal in this scenario? It would have been great for me medically and politically if HCQ worked. I can't speak for anyone else, but your assumptions about me are entirely unfounded and things you would never dream of saying to me in person.

As for your disgust with me, well, there's nothing I can do about that. I'd suggest some soul searching if this type of stuff sends you into such a blind political rage, especially when that rage is based almost entirely on incorrect data and faulty assumptions about the one you are angry with.

Please explain its success in India then

Jbob04 said:

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I noticed infection quack is staying on the Covid board now. Weird he hasn't come back over here to defend his mentor Fauci.

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The emails are largely a bad look, there's no getting around that. Much of the big headline material is largely unsubstantiated conjecture from reading things into them that aren't explicitly there, but it's clear he wasn't forthcoming with the public in many instances and there are implications he was trying to actually divert the narrative in some cases. Nothing in his emails has any impact on the nature of effectiveness of these drugs however, nor would it even be possible for them to do so. The data is what it is.

Anyway, many of you already have my personal contact information from prior PM questions. For those who don't, I'm happy to have any discussion in private or in person over email/phone if you'd like. Just send me a message.

AggieLostinDallas said:

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Please explain its success in India then

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See my initial post above. Put most simply, it's a correlation = causation fallacy. The article I posted shows why it's a pretty poor one at that, as the correlation itself doesn't even exist in many cases.

Even most of their own doctors don't believe ivermectin works, but are being pressured into giving it by the government. Multiple top health officials have quit in protest. This is all about Narendra Modi trying to cover for his complete ineptitude with respect to healthcare preparations and vaccination rollout. He operated under the "its no big deal" model until it was too late, and is now throwing everything he can at the wall hoping it's enough to distract the people from his failures.

Isn't the first study you linked tied to patients already in bad shape?

Ellis Wyatt said:

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Humility is a great trait. Try it out some time.

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I'm not going to have my character dragged through the mud based on lies and conspiracy theories. Many here know who I am as I've offered that information up in an attempt to help some of you, and I have received some very hateful messages and emails from Texags users who got my info second hand as a result. So if I come off as arrogant in my defense of my actions, you'll have to forgive me.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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AggieLostinDallas said:

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Please explain its success in India then

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See my initial post above. Put most simply, it's a correlation = causation fallacy. The article I posted shows why it's a pretty poor one at that, as the correlation itself doesn't even exist in many cases.

Even most of their own doctors don't believe ivermectin works, but are being pressured into giving it by the government. Multiple top health officials have quit in protest. This is all about Narendra Modi trying to cover for his complete ineptitude with respect to healthcare preparations and vaccination rollout. He operated under the "its no big deal" model until it was too late, and is now throwing everything he can at the wall hoping it's enough to distract the people from his failures.

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"Top health officials" has lost its seeming importance due to morons like Fauci, Brix and others. So, them quitting means nothing to me and many others.

And let's quit with the meanness towards Infection_Ag. He's done nothing to deserve it and has always come at problems intellectually.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Humility is a great trait. Try it out some time.

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I'm not going to have my character dragged through the mud based on lies and conspiracy theories. Many here know who I am as I've offered that information up in an attempt to help some of you, and I have received some very hateful messages and emails from Texags users who got my info second hand as a result. So if I come off as arrogant in my defense of my actions, you'll have to forgive me.

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Who has dragged your name/words thru the mud? What are the conspiracy theories involved?

Note: I have never PM'd you or otherwise messaged with you.