I think Sofia understood that even though Oz ratted her out to her father, there is no way he knew or intended that she'd end up in Arkham. But as soon as he admitted to killing Alberto, that was it for her.

Now, I will definitely agree that her believing he wasn't involved even after the kid said he saw his car there that night, that part is a bit of a stretch.

GreasenUSA said:

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CC09LawAg said:

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Maybe. It just seems like she has a vendetta against everyone involved but somehow she's willing to forgive Oz when he was really the one that caused it all for her.

Like I said, if when he was her driver he protected her from an assault or kidnapping or something, saved her life, etc. and they had that kind of bonding moment, I could see how she'd be torn between hating him vs. forgiving him.

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IMO, she had a lot of hate and anger towards everyone, but the vendetta didn't materialize until after Oz double-crossed her with the Maroni's.

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That is a good point - I think she was dealing with PTSD or Stockholm syndrome or something to that effect and was almost paralyzed with what to do and needed that one final thing to push her into action.

Isn't that one of the things TCTTS always harps on for a good story - the hero's call to action? It's kind of a funny play on that.

Yes, I think even she was surprised how far her dad took all of it, so I don't think she ever thought Oz knew the extent of what he would do to her either.

I think I would just like a tiny bit more of their history fleshed out - she was almost like this damsel in distress/princess like character in the flashbacks. I think their bond/story could've been strengthened if Oz came in as a white knight for her in some context.

I still love the show and this is admittedly nit-picking, just a little 3 minute cutscene where he saves her would've made the betrayal and her being so quick to rebuild their trust on her release a little more believable.

I also find it hard to feel too bad for anyone that Oz turns on, considering how they all treat him. Sophia included.

That is a bit of a chicken/egg thing. He seems like a total pushover in the flashbacks who just starts to get his footing by ratting out Sophia to the big boss.

If his entire reputation and strategy for climbing to the top has included double crossing and lying, I could see why nobody treats him very well or trusts him. But he was always smart enough to not do it to the big boss or to ever fly too high.

He obviously isn't winning through brute force so I think it's pretty believable that nobody would trust him and would treat him like dirt.

CC09LawAg said:

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That is a bit of a chicken/egg thing. He seems like a total pushover in the flashbacks who just starts to get his footing by ratting out Sophia to the big boss.

If his entire reputation and strategy for climbing to the top has included double crossing and lying, I could see why nobody treats him very well or trusts him. But he was always smart enough to not do it to the big boss or to ever fly too high.

He obviously isn't winning through brute force so I think it's pretty believable that nobody would trust him and would treat him like dirt.

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They established they were already calling him Penguin and treating him like **** in the flashback where he is her driver. (the brother calls him Penguin, and she says dont call him that. Implying other people do. She then also talks down to him alter)

But again, no one is wrong for not trusting him either.
Its part of what I think makes the show good, because there is no personally that you just totally root for.

That's a good distinction - in that line of work it's probably generous to call anything "trust" and it really is more whatever is the most advantageous in any given moment.

ScottishFire said:

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Did you say why aren't there more things in Milioti?

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I had to go back and make sure I didn't, because I could definitely see that being a Freudian slip.

TCTTS said:

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IMO, post-Arkham, I think it's less that Sofia trusted Oz, and more that she needed Oz. She was stuck between a rock and a hard place and, in her mind, chose the lesser of two evils. Oz was a means to an end, she was skeptical of him basically the entire time, then the only mistake she made was, at the 99 yard line, letting nostalgia get the best of her. Also, I don't blame her or anyone else for at first actually believing that it was the Maronis who killed her brother, seeing as literally no one would have suspected Oz of being capable of pulling off something like that.

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Obviously this is season is so exciting, but it would have been fun for them to team up for S1 and at the end of S1 is when they became enemies and she is scorned. Almost build Oz up as more likeable.

If he ends up selling out or double crossing Victor at the end of the season, man that would be compelling. Totally in character if his back is against the wall but I could see that being one that he actually regrets.

TCTTS said:

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The Penguin needs to have the darkest, hopeless ending that makes us hate Oz & begging to see Batman take him down. pic.twitter.com/Oo7u6pcvaw

— Matt Ramos (@therealsupes) October 16, 2024

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that will be amazing, but kind of sad. I want to like the penguin for a while

I'm not a comic book guy but I've been watching this on the recommendation of this board.

I do love a good gangster flick and this fits the bill. Great show.

Caught up. This show is f'ing awesome.

I feel like I'm discovering The Sopranos all over again which, by the way, is 25 years old this year!

EclipseAg said:

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I'm not a comic book guy but I've been watching this on the recommendation of this board.

I do love a good gangster flick and this fits the bill. Great show.

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Same. I don't know a ton about the Batman universe but started watching due to being low on stuff to watch and I'm loving it. Marketing it initially as a gangster show (which it sort of is)was smart and hooked me and now I look forward to it every week.

Loving the show but also find it hard to believe that all of this is happening, and Batman never shows up (especially considering the large explosion/detonation that takes place in the mid season trailer).

For what it's worth, Reeves says Batman is busy tracking another case during the time of this show, one that leads to/sets up the second movie. Basically, that part of the story (which we may or may not see) and this story then converge in Part II.

Either way, Batman can't be everywhere at once.

That said, the mid-season trailer briefly shows a guy in a helmet on a motorcycle riding through what looks to be the same tunnel from the first movie, leading to/from Wayne Tower. Reeves nicknamed motorcycle-riding Wayne "the drifter," so there's speculation that maybe that's how they technically involve Wayne, without "Bruce Wayne" or "Batman" actually showing up. Then again, it could just be a misdirect, who knows.

Quad Dog said:

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ScottishFire said:

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Loving the show but also find it hard to believe that all of this is happening, and Batman never shows up (especially considering the large explosion/detonation that takes place in the mid season trailer).

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Does Batman care if one group of mafia is fighting another group of mafia? As long as innocents aren't involved.

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Im going to guess that innocents are almost always impacted when gangwar happens

This. Same.

Agreed. And I think his appearance would cheapen the show.

TCTTS said:

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For what it's worth, Reeves says Batman is busy tracking another case during the time of this show, one that leads to/sets up the second movie. Basically, that part of the story (which we may or may not see) and this story then converge in Part II.

Either way, Batman can't be everywhere at once.

That said, the mid-season trailer briefly shows a guy in a helmet on a motorcycle riding through what looks to be the same tunnel from the first movie, leading to/from Wayne Tower. Reeves nicknamed motorcycle-riding Wayne "the drifter," so there's speculation that maybe that's how they technically involve Wayne, without "Bruce Wayne" or "Batman" actually showing up. Then again, it could just be a misdirect, who knows.

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I bet it's Lobo.

YouBet said:

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TCTTS said:

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For what it's worth, Reeves says Batman is busy tracking another case during the time of this show, one that leads to/sets up the second movie. Basically, that part of the story (which we may or may not see) and this story then converge in Part II.

Either way, Batman can't be everywhere at once.

That said, the mid-season trailer briefly shows a guy in a helmet on a motorcycle riding through what looks to be the same tunnel from the first movie, leading to/from Wayne Tower. Reeves nicknamed motorcycle-riding Wayne "the drifter," so there's speculation that maybe that's how they technically involve Wayne, without "Bruce Wayne" or "Batman" actually showing up. Then again, it could just be a misdirect, who knows.

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I bet it's Lobo.

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Clearly Jonah Hex.

Been hearing an unreal amount of buzz about this show, to the surprise of nobody who will read this. Is this something that somebody with absolutely zero knowledge of backstory/prior films can consume and still enjoy? The extent of my Batman consumption, ever, is watching The Dark Knight (I despise the superhero genre but I've heard this isn't "superhero-y" at all).

edit - and sorry if it's been asked ten times already on this thread.

Ervin Burrell said:

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Is this something that somebody with absolutely zero knowledge of backstory/prior films can consume and still enjoy?

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Yes.

I was thrown off because I was expecting big words like "POW!" and "WHAM!" to fly into the screen when the characters fought, and for the screen to spin around when scenes changed, but none of that happens.

Still a good show.

Nothing superheroey at all in this show