Premiered last month, I finally watched it tonight, and thought it was incredibly engaging. I'm not saying I believe every word of it, and I'm sure the Olivier Stone of it all will have its detractors, but at the very least it's extremely well done and seemingly well researched. Definitely worth the two hours if you're into this sort of thing...

JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11173544/
November 12, 2021
Showtime + Showtime Anytime

Agreed!

Sapper Redux said:

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Why would they seal them to be released and not just destroy them if there's some grand conspiracy? You think they're sitting there going, "We need to keep the lid on this for exactly 65 years and after that they can know everything"?

Acoustics are funny things. Especially in cities. I've been in combat in Baghdad and had an argument with my CO about where fire directed at us was coming from. Literally I was pointing north and he was telling us to go south. Both at the same place at the same time hearing different things because of building acoustics.

I don't want to turn this into a JFK thread, but I'll just say the conspiracy theories don't really hold up for me.

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Just explain a couple of simple things to me: why was Oswald handing out Fair Play for Cuba leaflets with Guy Banisters (known Castro hater) 544 Camp St address printed on them? IF Oswald shot at Gen Walker...how did he get there and back without a car? Did he just take his rifle on the bus over there? So many things don't add up that he acted ALONE!

Ill watch it. There is at least one, maybe more, absolutely huge, world altering secret story to be told, and it wouldnt surprise me at all if this event is a part of it.

Does this mean the Qnuts can leave Dealey plaza now?

Maybe we will know something more in about 10 days and/or one year from now, but I doubt it.

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The most sensitive information will now be released in December 2022 and material that has already been deemed "appropriate for release to the public," will be dumped on Dec. 15 of this year.

Some 250,000 records have already been released, but the public cannot view them unless they drive to NARA's College Park, Maryland headquarters, the memo said.

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We'll never truly know all the specifics. We have been told the truth at some point but it is lost in the 2000 other scenarios. I really got into this when Geraldo did his show on this in the 70's. There are so many plausible and similarly implausible scenarios that it's hard to keep up with. The case closed book goes off the premise that it's hard to understand that a great figure can be brought down by a single unspectacular guy. Well, that thought never crossed my mind. To me, all the inconsistencies and conflicting testimony made me think that it was more than Oswald. But over the years I have come to the thought that there was one gunman. Now, whether it was Oswald, that's another story. I am of the belief this is like the movie, Shooter. Oswald was targeted as the "gunman" and was going to be killed before he got captured. He killed tippet before he got killed. One thing that would help people is to phisically go to dealy plaza. The first thing that sticks out is how small the area was and how could multiple gunmen be in the area without being noticed.

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Acoustics are funny things. Especially in cities. I've been in combat in Baghdad and had an argument with my CO about where fire directed at us was coming from. Literally I was pointing north and he was telling us to go south. Both at the same place at the same time hearing different things because of building acoustics.

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It was fascinating to read Nextdoor one day after an early morning shooting event in my neighborhood. I woke up thinking something was happening at the house next to mine that was being remodeled. Stepped outside and realized it must be someone shooting from a car as the bangs grew more distant. Some people on Nextdoor, all over a 3-5 mile radius, were convinced someone had been knocking on their doors or windows. Others were disagreeing on how many shots there were. Obviously, the sounds were echoing off garage doors and buildings.

Why would Ruby do this? Known affiliation with the mob.

Mob clearly had beef with Kennedy's.

Guitarsoup said:

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Quito said:

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Why would Ruby do this? Known affiliation with the mob.

Mob clearly had beef with Kennedy's.

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Because he thought America would hail him as a Hero and he would get a parade down main street.

When Oswald was supposed to be doing his perp walk, Ruby was at Western Union. Oswald held up the perp walk because he only had his undershirt and demanded a sweater or something to go over it. That held everything up 30 minutes.

Had Oswald done the perp walk at the time he was supposed to do it, Ruby wouldn't have been close. It clearly wasn't a deep pre-meditated action, considering Ruby wasn't there at the right time.

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read much about gavrilo princip?

Guitarsoup said:

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TCTTS said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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schmidthead said:

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Read Gerald Poster's book Case Closed. He refutes every single myth that is out there… Oswald definitely acted alone. Did you know Oswald shot at an Army General before JFK (used the same rifle as JFK)?

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Case Closed is a good read. People are more comforted by the idea that taking out a figure as crucial as the President requires a massive conspiracy. The evidence is pretty convincing that Oswald acted alone.

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It makes zero difference to me personally/psychologically whether it was a conspiracy or not. I don't "need" it to be one way or the other, and I would argue that it's actually more comforting to most people for it to be a lone gunman as opposed to our government being capable of such horror against our own President.

For me, it's nothing more than the overwhelming evidence, logistically speaking, of a second gunman, from the front. Especially after you watch this doc, which isn't some crackpot endeavor. They very throughly take us through step-by-step, shot-by-shot, document-by-document, interview-by-interview, and at the very least show how many glaring inconsistencies there are between the various reports and "facts" over the years. I'm not saying that I fully believe the "why" conclusion Stone comes to, or that the conspiracy runs as deep as he suspects, but at this point I just see no way there wasn't a second gunman. I'd even go so far as to say it's almost impossible there wasn't a second gunman, all things considered.

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There is actually no evidence whatsoever of a second gunman from the front.

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There is actually a lot of evidence of it; you may not find it credible, and clearly a lot of people (and warren commission) agree with you, and that's fine, but this is a false statement.

i havent followed it much, or at all lately, and dont really have an opinion, but i always thought the zapruder film showing his head getting popped was pretty convincing for me. I've never seen anything i've shot react like that from a high and behind shot.

Guitarsoup said:

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cbr said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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TCTTS said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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schmidthead said:

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Read Gerald Poster's book Case Closed. He refutes every single myth that is out there… Oswald definitely acted alone. Did you know Oswald shot at an Army General before JFK (used the same rifle as JFK)?

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Case Closed is a good read. People are more comforted by the idea that taking out a figure as crucial as the President requires a massive conspiracy. The evidence is pretty convincing that Oswald acted alone.

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It makes zero difference to me personally/psychologically whether it was a conspiracy or not. I don't "need" it to be one way or the other, and I would argue that it's actually more comforting to most people for it to be a lone gunman as opposed to our government being capable of such horror against our own President.

For me, it's nothing more than the overwhelming evidence, logistically speaking, of a second gunman, from the front. Especially after you watch this doc, which isn't some crackpot endeavor. They very throughly take us through step-by-step, shot-by-shot, document-by-document, interview-by-interview, and at the very least show how many glaring inconsistencies there are between the various reports and "facts" over the years. I'm not saying that I fully believe the "why" conclusion Stone comes to, or that the conspiracy runs as deep as he suspects, but at this point I just see no way there wasn't a second gunman. I'd even go so far as to say it's almost impossible there wasn't a second gunman, all things considered.

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There is actually no evidence whatsoever of a second gunman from the front.

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There is actually a lot of evidence of it; you may not find it credible, and clearly a lot of people (and warren commission) agree with you, and that's fine, but this is a false statement.

i havent followed it much, or at all lately, and dont really have an opinion, but i always thought the zapruder film showing his head getting popped was pretty convincing for me. I've never seen anything i've shot react like that from a high and behind shot.

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There is actually no evidence. None. Just conjecture.

And for someone to be set up at the grassy knoll, they would be basically at a fence in a public parking lot where anyone could see them. No sniper is going to set up in a place like that.

Have you made a lot of headshots on a moving target in a vehicle that is strapped to their seat due to a bad back?

Kennedy's head initially moved forward when hit. Zapruder film shows this.

https://www.history.com/news/jfk-assassination-grassy-knoll-theory-debunked


For someone to be at the Grassy Knoll, they would be about where my red circle is, kind of behind a fence.



So no cover or concealment for them, like Oswald had build in his Sniper's nest in the TBD. They would have been completely open to the parking lot, and because everyone was turning to look at JFK as they passed, ALL the people that were around the #8 on the map would have been facing them and would have likely been able to see a muzzle blast.

It is just not feasible that a sniper would stand behind a fence with on concealment to fire shots on the POTUS.

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good post, I'll review. my first comment is though, there was certainly live eye witness testimony about it, which is evidence. it may not be credible, but it certainly is evidence. There are death bed statements too, etc. , and i recall all the old fuzzy 'guy in the bushes' photos; again, maybe not credible, i dont have an opinion, but certainly evidence.

that's the only reason why i made such a definitive 'that is false' statement. no offense intended. i also recall lots of other evidence people have thrown out over the years.

Guitarsoup said:

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cbr said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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Quito said:

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Why would Ruby do this? Known affiliation with the mob.

Mob clearly had beef with Kennedy's.

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Because he thought America would hail him as a Hero and he would get a parade down main street.

When Oswald was supposed to be doing his perp walk, Ruby was at Western Union. Oswald held up the perp walk because he only had his undershirt and demanded a sweater or something to go over it. That held everything up 30 minutes.

Had Oswald done the perp walk at the time he was supposed to do it, Ruby wouldn't have been close. It clearly wasn't a deep pre-meditated action, considering Ruby wasn't there at the right time.

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read much about gavrilo princip?

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Princip had gone to the motorcade at the right time to commit the assassination, didn't he? Princip didn't decide to go send a telegram at the time the Archduke was supposed to roll through.

Ruby went to the right place long after the scheduled time and only was only there when Oswald was taken out by dumb luck, because Oswald demanded that sweater.

Wait, do you think that Oswald was in on his own assassination and intentionally delayed it so Ruby could make a stop at Western Union first?

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no princip missed it, princip was sitting at an ice cream shop mourning his screw ups when the archduke pulled up on a diversion, out of sheer chance, IIRC. My only point is, chance and chaos drive many things, and we'll never know Ruby's plans. if one believes it was a hit, one would have to think someone in the building tipped Ruby on the time. Who knows?