CJS4715 said:

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Driver is great. I know the emo kylo jokes are out there, but he's handled the conflicted force user role better than anybody in the other movies.

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Anything with Kylo and Rey in this series is gold. I always liked the description of Kylo as a school shooter in space. Driver perfectl illustrates the unfounded anger mixed with violent impulse that is required for a role like that. I kind of feel like George Lucas wanted something like that in the prequels for Anakin, but Lucas doesn't have the directoral or writing chops to pull it off.

mazag08 said:

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TCTTS - I'm not sure if you've heard anything from the inside.. but would you mind a short, quick version of what a perfect episode 9 plot would look like?

I tried to write out mine and it was awful. Story creating is not my arena.

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Honestly, I have absolutely no clue what the actual story will be. TLJ effectively wiped the slate clean, which is the blessing and the curse with Episode IX. Ha, seeing as redline clearly doesn't want to hear my take anyway (though, again, I don't really have one), why don't we open it up to the thread?

In order to at least try and provide a few sign posts, I do know this:

You NEVER start with plot. First and foremost, you decide what the CHARACTERS need (both in how they're challenged and what you want their arcs to be), from there you develop the THEME, and then you figure out the PLOT.

With that in mind, so far...


The Force Awakens

REY WANTS
As an orphan (not by choice), to find her place/purpose in the galaxy. She's trying to FIND her family.

KYLO WANTS:
As an orphan (by choice), to destroy the remaining light within himself. He's trying to ELIMINATE his family.

THEME
What are the ways in which "family" can haunt us, and what are we willing to do quell those demons?


The Last Jedi

REY WANTS
To SAVE the galaxy by convincing Luke to help her SAVE the Resistance. In doing so, she hopes to better UNDERSTAND her past.

KYLO WANTS
To RULE the galaxy by convincing Rey to to help her END the Resistance (and the First Order). In doing so, Kylo hopes to better DESTROY his past.

THEME
In order to move forward, we need to let the past (and in some cases, family) die. (i.e. where we come from doesn't matter nearly as much as where we're going.)


Episode IX

So, now that Rey has found her purpose in the galaxy, and has realized it doesn't matter where she came from (i.e. she doesn't need to have a "chosen" bloodline to "be someone"), what challenges are left for her character? Emotionally, what's left for her to overcome? Part of the problem with TLJ is that there isn't really a question left dangling in this regard. Or, at least not an obvious one. Her arc already feels relatively complete, even though it was never truly developed to begin with. The only thing I can think of is this: What does it mean to now be the last Jedi? Will she let the religion die as Luke once hoped? Or will she try and salvage the Jedi Order, but in a new and better way - one that has learned from past mistakes? The entire future of the Jedi Order lies in her hands, and that could be really interesting to explore. So, I would then start to build a plot around that. How does she grapple with this? How does Kylo factor into this? What kind of situations or ancillary characters can we introduce to challenge her in this regard? A once orphan is now being tasked with the end all be all of familial decisions. How will she handle this monumental burden?

Kylo is a bit more cut and dry, but that's because, at the end of TLJ, his arc thankfully isn't quite as "complete." There's more obvious character material left to work with. At TFA's conclusion, he (thinks he) destroyed any light left within in himself by killing Han, but he then takes his own thematic message to the extreme (as he is so inclined to do) and not only lets *his* past die but destroys *the* past all together by killing Smoke (and thus the last remaining steward of the Sith or the Dark Side or whatever you want refer to it as). The future - same as Rey - is now his to decide. Only, there's one wild card remaining: Leia. As hard as Kylo has tried, his past isn't dead yet.

So, that does bring us to a nice little yin/yang situation once again with Rey and Kylo. They are each the last vestiges of "hope" for their respective sides of the Force. THEIR actions will literally decide the future of the galaxy. And I know that's not exactly some big "Aha!" realization - it's pretty obvious - but if you can understand the nuts and bolts of the character/theme angle in that regard, you can then start to build a plot with those pieces. You can begin to figure out how the plot can more literally represented that basic conceit. Is Rey trying to establish a new Jedi Academy at the outset - or - is doing so the crux of her character's dilemma (as in she might not want to at first, and doesn't come to the decision to do so until the end)? Either way, how is her struggle manifested in the plot? Similarly, what is Kylo now doing to establish *his* version of a new First Order (a "New Order," if you will)? And how can the story challenge him in that regard? If each character is trying to build new (and waring) cathedrals of government and worship, so to speak, how do those two goals clash in a compelling plot that satisfyingly wraps up the entire saga?

My answer? Again, right now, I have no clue. Kylo obviously has the advantage at this point, seeing as there were about ten members of the Resistance left at the end of TLJ, and that the governing body of the galaxy was destroyed by the end of TFA, creating a giant vacuum. On the side of the good guys, we know that Lando will likely swoop in - in some capacity - to offer his services (and potentially additional man power). And on the side of the bad guys, not only does The First Order obviously have the numbers, but surely The Knights of Ren will finally come into play as well. Save for those two potential plot points, though, I'm at loss as to the actual plot of the movie, or would at least need a while to try and figure one out. And I certainly don't have the time to do so right now.

So, what say you guys?

TCTTS said:

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Star Wars: Rey of Hope

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Much like Episode VIII, I think we all wish we could pretend that we didn't see that, and just move on.

DTP02 said:

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TCTTS said:

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Star Wars: Rey of Hope

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Much like Episode VIII, I think we all wish we could pretend that we didn't just see that and move on.

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TCTTS said:

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Actually, this just gave me a new title idea as well, one that's kind of cheesy, but I do like the "hope" symmetry, seeing as this is the final story in the saga...

Star Wars: Rey of Hope

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TCTTS said:

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I've never quite understood what "balance" truly means in regards to the Force in this franchise, but this scenario would seem the closest, I imagine. That said, I just can't see any way Kylo doesn't die. I do think he'll be redeemed in some way, he'll just die in the process.

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Kylo's redemption presents some problems to me, beyond his seeming to be nonredeemable at this point (killing Han, etc).

First, he has to have something/someone to defeat in order to redeem himself, like Vader killing the Emperor and saving Luke. Now, though, HE is the arch villain and there is nobody there to defeat. The obvious choice would have been Snoke, but Johnson turned that concept on its head when Kylo killed him and somehow became worse in our eyes. That leaves who? Hux? Maybe but his character was severely undermined in TLJ and I wouldn't buy him becoming the kind of powerful figure that would threaten both Kylo and Rey.

Second, he can unleash events that he would need to stop in order to redeem himself, but anything he stops will have been started by him with completely hateful and selfish motivations and would cheapen any redemption story in my opinion. If he "sees the light" one day and destroys the First Order, that's nice and all, but what the hell was all the earlier crap about, then?

At this point, Kylo has been written into a corner and it would take some pretty creative writing to get him out. I seriously doubt Star Wars fandom is going to put up with any deus ex machina at this point, so Abrams has a huge task if he decides to redeem Kylo.