bangobango said:

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Quote:

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Anyone defending this last episode has to be a casual viewer who doesn't really know what's going on. The writing is so bad. Reddit's ASOIAF and Gameofthrones boards both think it was a disaster. I'm so disappointed.

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I'm not a casual viewer.

Maybe attack the episode and not the people who liked it?

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By far the more hostile posts are from people defending the show.

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aTmAg said:

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redline248 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Anybody else think that Jon Snow is too much of a dumbass to be a good king?

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What's the most dumbass thing he's done in the show?

Gone north to catch a wight
Not lied to Cersei about pledging to Dany?

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Put all his troops and artillery in front of the trench. After watching the dorthraki get wiped out, he wanted Dany to sit up on the hill and hang tight while waiting for the NK to arrive. Good thing Dany blew him off and started smoking the zombies instead.

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M.C. Swag said:

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And then Moment A, and then Moment B, and then Moment C*TLDR Warning*

Most storytelling tells a narrative with events that answer 'but for' or 'as a result of' establishing at a minimum a cause-effect relationship...unfortunately this show is now about the 'and then.' Jamie & Brienne hook up AND THEN Bronn shows up AND THEN Jamie rides away AND THEN Rhaegal dies AND THEN Missandei gets captured AND THEN Missandei dies...it's an endless stream of moments that feel weightless because they aren't buoyed by any basic cause-effect. Things are just happening. Euron's fleet just appeared outfitted with dozens of giant cross bows and took out 1 of 2 magical creatures left in the show. Missandei just appeared in the custody of Cersei and was summarily executed.

I have long questioned D&D's ability to write without GRRMs books and that doesn't need to be re-hashed. It's quite evident the quality of dialogue and character moments is less than it was between S1-S4. But it's also abundantly clear that they are suffering from this self-imposed time limit. Characters are shooting around the world haphazardly and big moments are being micro-waved into a flavorless goop.

Due to many factors this was one of the worst episodes of the series imo. But lets start with what was good:

• Jon's funeral speech was quite moving and I fully appreciated the 'they were the shields that guarded the realms of men' line. Definitely tear jerking.
• The one thing that D&D has shown to be proficient at is writing Frat Bro Tormund. He was funny as always and again delivered some of the better lines of dialogue (even if they were basically fart jokes and 'jon is so short gaiz' jokes)
• Most of the comraderie/post celebration scenes were nice. Pod was hilarious.

The Bad:

• Brienne and Jamie: WHY did this happen? Why was it necessary? Their bond was deeper than sex. I always thought that Brienne and Cersei were opposites (in nature as well as to Jamie). Brienne was what a sister should be to Jamie. The cap stone of their relationship was seeing Jamie acknowledge her knightly qualities and make her what she always was; a true knight/hero. The fact that they took precious screentime away from the show to be like, 'oh you're a virgin? You are incomplete, let me fix you.' <-that was disappointing.
• Ghost: The show has essentially turned Ghost into a 4-legged middle finger to fans. Ghost was supposed to be a symbol of Jon Snow and quite literally saved his life, Sam's life, and many others. I've had more emotional good byes with a t-shirt than Jon did with Ghost. I don't understand why he's still in the show. Thankfully Ned only had to die but once. Ghost is dying over and over again.
• Geographical continuity: King's Landing is apparently now a flat, arid, desert. Kewl. (and this isn't a new complaint, it's just another notch in the belt)
• Bronn's Seinfeld-esque cameo: Just an absurd sequence of events with even more absurd dialogue.
• Euron: Aka - Evil McBadguy. He's just a cartoon. He might as well have tied Missandei to a train track with TNT strapped to her chest whilst twilring his mustache.
• Cersei just inexplicably using Missandei as a means of inciting a reaction from Dany but deciding NOT to kill Tyrion too?
• Gendry RIVERS?! Just try a LITTLE harder. It's such a small, easy thing to get right.
• Bran/3ER: He continues to just be ignored. What was he doing the whole time during the battle? Just flying around as crows? Ok, cool. What is Bran's role in the Great War? Studying antique wheel chair design? Awesome.
• Casualties: 50% of Dothraki are lost? LOL what? No way.
• Battle of Winterfell just seems so inconsequential. We literally saw Jon make the decision to LET SAME DIE in order to save Bran and not only was there no tangible consequence to that decision, but Sam or Jon or anyone didn't even talk about it. In fact, we got hardly ANY reflection of what just occurred outside of a 'hey we beat the dead, you should drink.' Tired or not, it's also completely unnatural for any surviving soldier to be willing to fight another war. They just beat DEATH. Why in the world would they go for another round against actual humans?! They saw friends and family DIE to protect humanity. Why would anyone be willing to forget that just so Dany can sit on a chair?
• Crypt Scene: What was the point of it? It served now purpose and had no consequence. I thought surely D&D wrote that scene as to expedite a reveal of some sort. Or maybe kill a character? Or maybe shock the audience with a zombie Lyanna? Nope? Oh ok.
• Where's Meera, Daario? Did we REALLY just say goodbye to Sam/Tormund/Ghost?!

The Worst:

• Jon's Parentage: Again, the biggest political/emotional revelation in the entire show is given less time than Tyrion got to describe Cousin Orson and his love of beetle smashing. What are you doing D&D? Sansa and Arya just learned that Ned sullied his honor to keep Jon safe because he is the TRUE HEIR and we get a cut away? It's so blatantly obvious these screenwriters have no confidence in themselves. They feel completely at home writing dick jokes and Tormund party scenes but when presented with a moment that would require a nuanced emotional tension, they shy away like Sam to a dying Edd. Inexcusable. And the fact that Sansa took all of a commercial break to forgo her promise UNDER THE GODSWOOD tree that she wouldn't tell anyone, and instead decide that tell Tyrion is just a 'are you kidding me?' moment as I can recall. What are you doing D&D?
• Arya: Arya's entire journey to become a faceless man was predicated on her bringing justice to those who wronged her, her family, and her friends. The reason she abandoned that quest was because she was unable and unwilling to shed her identity as Arya Stark. "A girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell. And I'm going home." She's done truly horrendous things to get home and even lectures Jon about family duty. Now she decides to leave FOR GOOD?! That is some schizophrenic character arc.
• Arya 2.0: The most rational solution to killing Cersei is to simply send Arya (and yes, it would suck). But that's the consequences for making Arya into a shape-shifting T-1000. She absorbed all of the abilities of a faceless man without having to adhere to any of their rules. With the NK dead, Arya is quite literally the most dangerous person in the show. She can assume anyone's identity, sneak around the enemy undetected, and all of that is in conjunction with her prodigy level ninja skills. I posted this last week: "This is now a problem for the show. They will have to make some "reason" as to why Arya can't simply infiltrate her way into Cersei's bedchamber, kill her, and assume her identity to whatever cause she wants." With Cersei opening the doors to the red keep and allowing in thousands of peasants, that only makes Arya's job easier. But instead of even attempting to explain why Arya can't/won't assassinate Cersei, we're just led to believe that the thought never crossed any of the character's minds. *sigh*
• "The Great War": Plot holes aside, the biggest theme from GRRMs books has been torn out root & stem. Alt Shift X had a great post that essentially stated that GRRM was a conscientious objector in Vietnam and known pacifist. He despises war and violence. He made these books to be a REJECTION of the sort of good vs evil battles that Tolkien used, essentially stating that there is no pure good/evil. Everybody has the capacity to be both. Take a look at Arya. In the books she's a child traumatized by seeing half her family killed and being isolated in the middle of war. She's constantly having to take on new identities to stay hidden to the point that she starts to lose herself and becoming 'no one.' She's the the ultimate example of how perpetuating the endless cycle of violence and revenge only leads to more pain and loss. In the show she becomes a badass murderer because isn't murder just so freaking cool? Audiences got to clap when she murdered the Freys. They clapped when she murdered Littlefinger. Then they clapped when she murdered the Night King. They clapped and clapped as Arya's character developed into a strong powerful female role model who learned that murdering all her problems away is the best solution. Now Cersei f'n Lannister is the final boss of the show after blatantly treating the WWs as a joke and then using them to further her own schemes. The NK was just a pawn in the machinations of the snarky drunk queen. And she hasn't been punished for it. If anything, her plan worked to perfection and the North has been crippled. Everyone who ignored the walker threat in favor of furthering their own agenda has been proven right. Now everybody can go right back to playing the Game of Thrones as though nothing ever happened. Because what REALLY matters is who sits on the throne. Just as George intended.

What started out as a condemnation of war, short sightedness and greed has turned into a celebration of all the worst parts of human nature.

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hennyj15 said:

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I thought I liked this show until I read this thread.

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