****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******

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redline248
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aTmAg said:

Champ Bailey said:

aTmAg said:

bobinator said:

Jon would be a great peacetime king. He'd be an awful war time king.
Not even sure about the peacetime part. He seems damn naive and easy to out maneuver. He'd be eating out of the palm of a Littlefinger type guy.


But I don't know about this either. We showed Littlefinger trying to syrup Jon, and Jon grabbed him and told him to essentially F off.
That is after Littlefinger was known by all the Starks to be a slimeball. I'm talking about some new unknown adviser or whatever.
I think Jon would only listen to someone like Sam or Davos or Tyrion. The Jon Snow of seasons 6-8 is a completely different character than of the seasons prior. His time as commander of the Night's watch, he was a lot smarter, even if he didn't see the betrayal by Thorne/Ollie coming. In my opinion.
OldShadeOfBlue
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redline248 said:

OldShadeOfBlue said:

redline248 said:

aTmAg said:

Anybody else think that Jon Snow is too much of a dumbass to be a good king?
What's the most dumbass thing he's done in the show?

Gone north to catch a wight
Not lied to Cersei about pledging to Dany?
Asked Sansa to keep a secret
strong contender!
He also fell for the old "your long lost uncle is waiting for you outside" trick; the oldest trick in the book!
Brian Earl Spilner
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bangobango said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

Quote:

Anyone defending this last episode has to be a casual viewer who doesn't really know what's going on. The writing is so bad. Reddit's ASOIAF and Gameofthrones boards both think it was a disaster. I'm so disappointed.
I'm not a casual viewer.

Maybe attack the episode and not the people who liked it?


By far the more hostile posts are from people defending the show.
MW03
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S8E3 - After watching the Dothraki run into a wall of death...

"YOU IDIOTS! WHY DIDN'T YOU HOLD SOME OF THE DOTHRAKI BACK! YOU JUST WASTED THEM ALL IN ONE FELL SWOOP! MORONS!"

S8E4 - After hearing that 50% of the Dothraki survived...

"UNBELIEVABLE! WHAT, ARE SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE THEY HELD SOME OF THEM BACK OR SOMETHING!? MORONS!"
digital_ag
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bangobango said:

By far the more hostile posts are from people defending the show.

100%

Lots of people running interference for D&D. This thread might as well be on the politics board.
aTmAg
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redline248 said:

aTmAg said:

Champ Bailey said:

aTmAg said:

bobinator said:

Jon would be a great peacetime king. He'd be an awful war time king.
Not even sure about the peacetime part. He seems damn naive and easy to out maneuver. He'd be eating out of the palm of a Littlefinger type guy.


But I don't know about this either. We showed Littlefinger trying to syrup Jon, and Jon grabbed him and told him to essentially F off.
That is after Littlefinger was known by all the Starks to be a slimeball. I'm talking about some new unknown adviser or whatever.
I think Jon would only listen to someone like Sam or Davos or Tyrion. The Jon Snow of seasons 6-8 is a completely different character than of the seasons prior. His time as commander of the Night's watch, he was a lot smarter, even if he didn't see the betrayal by Thorne/Ollie coming. In my opinion.
I think his dumbassery is basically historical and military ignorance on D&D's part. Clearly GRRM researched that stuff a lot. HBO producers not so much.
PatAg
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aTmAg said:

redline248 said:

aTmAg said:

Anybody else think that Jon Snow is too much of a dumbass to be a good king?
What's the most dumbass thing he's done in the show?

Gone north to catch a wight
Not lied to Cersei about pledging to Dany?
Put all his troops and artillery in front of the trench. After watching the dorthraki get wiped out, he wanted Dany to sit up on the hill and hang tight while waiting for the NK to arrive. Good thing Dany blew him off and started smoking the zombies instead.
Their whole plan wasn't to win the army vs army fight, it was to draw the Night King in to attack Bran. You seem to not get this, even though they explicitly stated it prior to the battle.
HtownAg92
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aTmAg said:

Zombie Jon Snow said:

aTmAg said:

Zombie Jon Snow said:

she always could have gone high enough out of range and circled around to survey it.
I don't know the flight envelope of dragons, but they may not be able to go very high (D&D are probably not concerned with aerodynamics when writing the show). But I do think that without binoculars (or even glasses) it would be pretty hard to see such things from 3000 feet or whatever.
Quote:

and actually SHOULD have done that BEFORE her ships just came into Dragonstone like a pleasure cruise docking. that was dumb.
I don't remember, why did they go to Dragonstone? Isn't it basically a tiny island? And why did Euron assume they were going to go there rather than straight to KL?

I agree with you on better recon, but it could have been anywhere. She should have been flying a mile ahead of the ships at all times.



the plan was for the marchers to leave first down the Kingsroad (whats left of the Dothraki, the northern army, the unsullied, etc.)....with Jon. a smaller contingent and the rest of the leadership (those not fit for marching or riding that far) would go on the ships.

they went to Dragonstone because from there they would go inland to rendezvous on the Kingsroad to KL.


Yes recon for the voyage but particularly the vulnerable places coming into shore. Particularly as you are probably only a few hours sailing time from KL there.

marcher's went down from Winterfell heading to KL
sailing party went over to White Harbor and sailed for Dragonstone.

then meet up on the Kingsroad outside KL.



Based on the map, they might as well go to Dragonstone since it's on the way.
Also based on the map, Dany's party should be about 1/3 of the way to the coast from Winterfell, which Yara correctly pointed out to Theon is "hundreds of miles from the sea". And surely Cersei heard about the end of the BoW and just knocked out one of Dany's nukes and a bunch of her ships. She shouldn't try the human shields and prepare defenses against an attack, she should go out and take them now because it will take months for Jon and the rest of the army to get there. Dany, Grey Worm, and their advance party is an outnumbered sitting duck right now.
rangerdanger
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I'm hoping they bust out Lady Stoneheart (books only so far) to nuke and pave this whole story arc.
aTmAg
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digital_ag said:

bangobango said:

By far the more hostile posts are from people defending the show.

100%

Lots of people running interference for D&D. This thread might as well be on the politics board.
Or, perhaps you are over generalizing. Apparently I am one of the ones "running interference for D&D" yet I have been criticizing them plenty.
aTmAg
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PatAg said:

aTmAg said:

redline248 said:

aTmAg said:

Anybody else think that Jon Snow is too much of a dumbass to be a good king?
What's the most dumbass thing he's done in the show?

Gone north to catch a wight
Not lied to Cersei about pledging to Dany?
Put all his troops and artillery in front of the trench. After watching the dorthraki get wiped out, he wanted Dany to sit up on the hill and hang tight while waiting for the NK to arrive. Good thing Dany blew him off and started smoking the zombies instead.
Their whole plan wasn't to win the army vs army fight, it was to draw the Night King in to attack Bran. You seem to not get this, even though they explicitly stated it prior to the battle.
How does putting your entire army in front of the trench better draw the Night King to attack Bran?
OldShadeOfBlue
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This season has had it's faults but I like where they're going with this Dany right now. She's going straight down Stannis territory. She's going to lose everything chasing this throne, when in the end she knows she doesn't even have a claim to it. At least Stannis thought he was the rightful heir. Dany straight up knows now it's not hers but she's come this far and her ego won't let her quit now. I'm anxious to see if she realizes this before she dies with a whimper the way Stannis did.
redline248
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Does anyone think Jon convinced Robett Glover to join the march south? Or is that just another thing the show has cast aside?
smokeythebear
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Joseph Parrish said:

Ghost91 said:

Tormund: "You weigh as much as two fleas %#$ing".

TexAgs: "OMG makes no sense, the volume mass and weight of the fleas would not increase simply based on greater kinetic energy, OMG lazy writing worst show in the history of shows".


Drogon in front of the castle was the same size on screen as he was from Tyrion's perspective when Rhaegal was shot down. Euron and his ships were way further away than the ship Tyrion was on. Be a sarcastic ass all you want, but it was a mistake on their part. It was almost as dumb as Dany trying to threaten Cersei with her tiny amount of troops.

And this explanation is as non-technical as it gets.
Still trying to get caught up on the rest of the thread, but couldn't hold off anymore.

Raegal getting sniped while flying from a moving ship that they "couldn't see" was absurd. Yes, we all get that. The show writers probably pictured it more of a "surprise attack" and that Euron got the drop on them, but after special effects and everything, yes it looks pretty inconceivable. Oh well, we get the point.

But don't use that absurdity to validate a clearly strategic setup outside KL. Drogon was obviously staged far enough away to avoid the scorpions on the wall. This is VERY STANDARD ARMY PRESENTATION. You stand just far enough away from each other to avoid their long-range weapons. It doesn't make the show "better" if they put Drogon on top of a mountain a mile away. He's staged far enough back to indicate the risk of the scorpions, that's all we need. Tyrion approached the wall and when he got within the range of the archers, they nocked their arrows to indicate he was in range. Acting like Cersei could have effectively killed the Unsullied with arrows is disingenuous to pretty much all based level of medieval battle strategy.
blazer18
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Joe Cole said:

The jump from Winterfell to standing in front of KL with 60 troops seemed incredibly rushed. The whole setup and idea that Dany and other important people would walk out into the wide open defenseless just seemed absurd, even for D&D.

Disappointed how they just seem to be done with Bran/3ER and his abilities
Bran's comment about mostly living in the past to Tyrion and his wanting to leave the conversation quickly (motioned to the person behind him to take him out of the hall) makes me thinks Bran still has a big part in this story left to tell.
digital_ag
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aTmAg said:

digital_ag said:

bangobango said:

By far the more hostile posts are from people defending the show.

100%

Lots of people running interference for D&D. This thread might as well be on the politics board.
Or, perhaps you are over generalizing. Apparently I am one of the ones "running interference for D&D" yet I have been criticizing them plenty.
Every 3 pages we get the same post: "You guys criticizing the show are just mad that what you expected to happen didn't happen."

I made a casual observation last night about Missandei grabbing Cersei and jumping off the gate. I think you were even the person that chimed in "ackshually that couldn't have happen you people will complain about anything".

The lack of self-awareness is pretty astounding.
Ranger #007
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So does GRRM have no input into the show? I know we've run out of source material but it's not like the man is dead. Surely he has some general notes and it seems like they'd go to him for some of these major events.
TheDraw
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Quote:

And my stomach is sick
And it's all in my head
But she's touching his chest now

C@LAg
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The past is irrelevant at this point, other than valiating Jon.

I hope we are done with Bran.

It should be about the future from this point on.
BallerStaf2003
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redline248
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Ranger #007 said:

So does GRRM have no input into the show? I know we've run out of source material but it's not like the man is dead. Surely he has some general notes and it seems like they'd go to him for some of these major events.
Based on tidbits I've read it seems like he gave them a general outline of what he wanted certain characters to do or how the final ending happens...but that's it. I don't know how much he cares about the show, at this point.
digital_ag
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BallerStaf2003 said:


StringerBell
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aTmAg
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digital_ag said:

aTmAg said:

digital_ag said:

bangobango said:

By far the more hostile posts are from people defending the show.

100%

Lots of people running interference for D&D. This thread might as well be on the politics board.
Or, perhaps you are over generalizing. Apparently I am one of the ones "running interference for D&D" yet I have been criticizing them plenty.
Every 3 pages we get the same post: "You guys criticizing the show are just mad that what you expected to happen didn't happen."

I made a casual observation last night about Missandei grabbing Cersei and jumping off the gate. I think you were even the person that chimed in "ackshually that couldn't have happen you people will complain about anything".

The lack of self-awareness is pretty astounding.
Because if she was capable of doing that, Cersei wouldn't have gotten close to her in the first place. It's not that hard to understand. Cersei is not a dumbass.

At least try to make your criticisms have some merit.
jtstanley4621
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Ranger #007 said:

So does GRRM have no input into the show? I know we've run out of source material but it's not like the man is dead. Surely he has some general notes and it seems like they'd go to him for some of these major events.
He seems fairly hands off, which I find interesting. If I were in his position, I would want to be involved at least to the point where the series gets the ending correct or it lines up with my books.

Unfortunately, we may never know if the ending from the show is the exact ending in the books....
digital_ag
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aTmAg said:

digital_ag said:

aTmAg said:

digital_ag said:

bangobango said:

By far the more hostile posts are from people defending the show.

100%

Lots of people running interference for D&D. This thread might as well be on the politics board.
Or, perhaps you are over generalizing. Apparently I am one of the ones "running interference for D&D" yet I have been criticizing them plenty.
Every 3 pages we get the same post: "You guys criticizing the show are just mad that what you expected to happen didn't happen."

I made a casual observation last night about Missandei grabbing Cersei and jumping off the gate. I think you were even the person that chimed in "ackshually that couldn't have happen you people will complain about anything".

The lack of self-awareness is pretty astounding.
Because if she was capable of doing that, Cersei wouldn't have gotten close to her in the first place. It's not that hard to understand. Cersei is not a dumbass.

At least try to make your criticisms have some merit.

My point, which has eluded you yet again, is that I wasn't criticizing. It was just a passing observation right after the scene. You might be a little too invested in this.

And also, there's no way for you to know what you're claiming. She got close therefore it was impossible isn't rooted in any kind of logic.
aTmAg
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digital_ag said:

aTmAg said:

digital_ag said:

aTmAg said:

digital_ag said:

bangobango said:

By far the more hostile posts are from people defending the show.

100%

Lots of people running interference for D&D. This thread might as well be on the politics board.
Or, perhaps you are over generalizing. Apparently I am one of the ones "running interference for D&D" yet I have been criticizing them plenty.
Every 3 pages we get the same post: "You guys criticizing the show are just mad that what you expected to happen didn't happen."

I made a casual observation last night about Missandei grabbing Cersei and jumping off the gate. I think you were even the person that chimed in "ackshually that couldn't have happen you people will complain about anything".

The lack of self-awareness is pretty astounding.
Because if she was capable of doing that, Cersei wouldn't have gotten close to her in the first place. It's not that hard to understand. Cersei is not a dumbass.

At least try to make your criticisms have some merit.

My point, which has eluded you yet again, is that I wasn't criticizing. It was just a passing observation right after the scene. You might be a little too invested in this.
Then at least make your passing observations have some merit.
Ranger #007
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Exactly. Since it seems like they're basically debuting the finale to his epic work before he releases or even writes it, he'd have a vested interest in making sure they got it right to his liking but maybe not.
C@LAg
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So much irony in your reply.
digital_ag
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You might be a little too detached from reality.

Your criticism of my point isn't rooted in anything other than "I know what the character was thinking therefore I'm right".
redline248
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Perfectly illustrates how carelessly they've been writing this show.
aggie-master
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M.C. Swag said:

And then Moment A, and then Moment B, and then Moment C*TLDR Warning*

Most storytelling tells a narrative with events that answer 'but for' or 'as a result of' establishing at a minimum a cause-effect relationship...unfortunately this show is now about the 'and then.' Jamie & Brienne hook up AND THEN Bronn shows up AND THEN Jamie rides away AND THEN Rhaegal dies AND THEN Missandei gets captured AND THEN Missandei dies...it's an endless stream of moments that feel weightless because they aren't buoyed by any basic cause-effect. Things are just happening. Euron's fleet just appeared outfitted with dozens of giant cross bows and took out 1 of 2 magical creatures left in the show. Missandei just appeared in the custody of Cersei and was summarily executed.

I have long questioned D&D's ability to write without GRRMs books and that doesn't need to be re-hashed. It's quite evident the quality of dialogue and character moments is less than it was between S1-S4. But it's also abundantly clear that they are suffering from this self-imposed time limit. Characters are shooting around the world haphazardly and big moments are being micro-waved into a flavorless goop.

Due to many factors this was one of the worst episodes of the series imo. But lets start with what was good:
  • Jon's funeral speech was quite moving and I fully appreciated the 'they were the shields that guarded the realms of men' line. Definitely tear jerking.
  • The one thing that D&D has shown to be proficient at is writing Frat Bro Tormund. He was funny as always and again delivered some of the better lines of dialogue (even if they were basically fart jokes and 'jon is so short gaiz' jokes)
  • Most of the comraderie/post celebration scenes were nice. Pod was hilarious.

The Bad:
  • Brienne and Jamie: WHY did this happen? Why was it necessary? Their bond was deeper than sex. I always thought that Brienne and Cersei were opposites (in nature as well as to Jamie). Brienne was what a sister should be to Jamie. The cap stone of their relationship was seeing Jamie acknowledge her knightly qualities and make her what she always was; a true knight/hero. The fact that they took precious screentime away from the show to be like, 'oh you're a virgin? You are incomplete, let me fix you.' <-that was disappointing.
  • Ghost: The show has essentially turned Ghost into a 4-legged middle finger to fans. Ghost was supposed to be a symbol of Jon Snow and quite literally saved his life, Sam's life, and many others. I've had more emotional good byes with a t-shirt than Jon did with Ghost. I don't understand why he's still in the show. Thankfully Ned only had to die but once. Ghost is dying over and over again.
  • Geographical continuity: King's Landing is apparently now a flat, arid, desert. Kewl. (and this isn't a new complaint, it's just another notch in the belt)
  • Bronn's Seinfeld-esque cameo: Just an absurd sequence of events with even more absurd dialogue.
  • Euron: Aka - Evil McBadguy. He's just a cartoon. He might as well have tied Missandei to a train track with TNT strapped to her chest whilst twilring his mustache.
  • Cersei just inexplicably using Missandei as a means of inciting a reaction from Dany but deciding NOT to kill Tyrion too?
  • Gendry RIVERS?! Just try a LITTLE harder. It's such a small, easy thing to get right.
  • Bran/3ER: He continues to just be ignored. What was he doing the whole time during the battle? Just flying around as crows? Ok, cool. What is Bran's role in the Great War? Studying antique wheel chair design? Awesome.
  • Casualties: 50% of Dothraki are lost? LOL what? No way.
  • Battle of Winterfell just seems so inconsequential. We literally saw Jon make the decision to LET SAME DIE in order to save Bran and not only was there no tangible consequence to that decision, but Sam or Jon or anyone didn't even talk about it. In fact, we got hardly ANY reflection of what just occurred outside of a 'hey we beat the dead, you should drink.' Tired or not, it's also completely unnatural for any surviving soldier to be willing to fight another war. They just beat DEATH. Why in the world would they go for another round against actual humans?! They saw friends and family DIE to protect humanity. Why would anyone be willing to forget that just so Dany can sit on a chair?
  • Crypt Scene: What was the point of it? It served now purpose and had no consequence. I thought surely D&D wrote that scene as to expedite a reveal of some sort. Or maybe kill a character? Or maybe shock the audience with a zombie Lyanna? Nope? Oh ok.
  • Where's Meera, Daario? Did we REALLY just say goodbye to Sam/Tormund/Ghost?!

The Worst:
  • Jon's Parentage: Again, the biggest political/emotional revelation in the entire show is given less time than Tyrion got to describe Cousin Orson and his love of beetle smashing. What are you doing D&D? Sansa and Arya just learned that Ned sullied his honor to keep Jon safe because he is the TRUE HEIR and we get a cut away? It's so blatantly obvious these screenwriters have no confidence in themselves. They feel completely at home writing dick jokes and Tormund party scenes but when presented with a moment that would require a nuanced emotional tension, they shy away like Sam to a dying Edd. Inexcusable. And the fact that Sansa took all of a commercial break to forgo her promise UNDER THE GODSWOOD tree that she wouldn't tell anyone, and instead decide that tell Tyrion is just a 'are you kidding me?' moment as I can recall. What are you doing D&D?
  • Arya: Arya's entire journey to become a faceless man was predicated on her bringing justice to those who wronged her, her family, and her friends. The reason she abandoned that quest was because she was unable and unwilling to shed her identity as Arya Stark. "A girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell. And I'm going home." She's done truly horrendous things to get home and even lectures Jon about family duty. Now she decides to leave FOR GOOD?! That is some schizophrenic character arc.
  • Arya 2.0: The most rational solution to killing Cersei is to simply send Arya (and yes, it would suck). But that's the consequences for making Arya into a shape-shifting T-1000. She absorbed all of the abilities of a faceless man without having to adhere to any of their rules. With the NK dead, Arya is quite literally the most dangerous person in the show. She can assume anyone's identity, sneak around the enemy undetected, and all of that is in conjunction with her prodigy level ninja skills. I posted this last week: "This is now a problem for the show. They will have to make some "reason" as to why Arya can't simply infiltrate her way into Cersei's bedchamber, kill her, and assume her identity to whatever cause she wants." With Cersei opening the doors to the red keep and allowing in thousands of peasants, that only makes Arya's job easier. But instead of even attempting to explain why Arya can't/won't assassinate Cersei, we're just led to believe that the thought never crossed any of the character's minds. *sigh*
  • "The Great War": Plot holes aside, the biggest theme from GRRMs books has been torn out root & stem. Alt Shift X had a great post that essentially stated that GRRM was a conscientious objector in Vietnam and known pacifist. He despises war and violence. He made these books to be a REJECTION of the sort of good vs evil battles that Tolkien used, essentially stating that there is no pure good/evil. Everybody has the capacity to be both. Take a look at Arya. In the books she's a child traumatized by seeing half her family killed and being isolated in the middle of war. She's constantly having to take on new identities to stay hidden to the point that she starts to lose herself and becoming 'no one.' She's the the ultimate example of how perpetuating the endless cycle of violence and revenge only leads to more pain and loss. In the show she becomes a badass murderer because isn't murder just so freaking cool? Audiences got to clap when she murdered the Freys. They clapped when she murdered Littlefinger. Then they clapped when she murdered the Night King. They clapped and clapped as Arya's character developed into a strong powerful female role model who learned that murdering all her problems away is the best solution. Now Cersei f'n Lannister is the final boss of the show after blatantly treating the WWs as a joke and then using them to further her own schemes. The NK was just a pawn in the machinations of the snarky drunk queen. And she hasn't been punished for it. If anything, her plan worked to perfection and the North has been crippled. Everyone who ignored the walker threat in favor of furthering their own agenda has been proven right. Now everybody can go right back to playing the Game of Thrones as though nothing ever happened. Because what REALLY matters is who sits on the throne. Just as George intended.

What started out as a condemnation of war, short sightedness and greed has turned into a celebration of all the worst parts of human nature.

Every essay I've ever written got a grade on it. I give you a 97.
Ghost91
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hennyj15 said:

I thought I liked this show until I read this thread.
No s###. For the past two weeks, I've gone to bed after GOT with my heart racing and pondering what an amazing show I just watched. Then I get up the next morning and read TexAgs and feel like I saw 'Ishtar'.
Ranger #007
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This is the woman who has lost all of her children and two of them were murdered by people taking revenge on her family and one who was willingly sent with her killers. She may not be a dumbass but she ain't flawless.
cbr
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BallerStaf2003 said:


Id have reversed it - leaving just a stick ass for that last episode. Hopefully theyll draw a nice tail.
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