C@LAg said:
D&D Off Star Wars. Trilogy dead.
https://deadline.com/2019/10/star-wars-setback-game-of-thrones-duo-david-benioff-d-b-weiss-exit-trilogy-1202771184/
WTF
Star Wars Discussion Thread
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Last: 19 hrs ago by SpreadsheetAg
WTF
At least they can't **** up another franchise I love
I think you meant to use a thumbs up
Ok, I have some thoughts.
I have been a pretty staunch defender of Kathleen Kennedy up to this point. She's been responsible for some of the biggest box office hits of all time, including the highest-grossing movie in Force Awakens.
But enough is enough. There seems to be NO order behind the scenes at Lucasfilm.
Look, I know we don't have all the details with whatever happened with D&D. But, it almost doesn't matter. Either Kennedy fired them and allowed them to make a statement to save face, or D&D decided to leave of their own accord. But either way, it's a terrible look for Lucasfilm.
We are talking about the best and biggest media franchise in American entertainment. If things are bad enough that the guys you hired to shepherd the next phase of your franchise, jump ship for Netflix?
It's either that, or you are making official announcements way before you should, counting your eggs before they hatch, or whatever you want to call it.
But this is not the kind of thing that should be happening. And the buck stops with Kathleen. Things are clearly a cluster**** behind the scenes and nobody is steering the ship.
It's time for a change. Get Favreau in there. Get Filoni. Get JJ. I don't care who it is, but it needs to be someone who the company can rally behind and who will clean up whatever mess is going on right now.
I could well be overreacting, but this is happened too many times by now. The writing is on the wall with the Rian Johnson deal, so expect that story to hit within the next few months, too.
I have been a pretty staunch defender of Kathleen Kennedy up to this point. She's been responsible for some of the biggest box office hits of all time, including the highest-grossing movie in Force Awakens.
But enough is enough. There seems to be NO order behind the scenes at Lucasfilm.
Look, I know we don't have all the details with whatever happened with D&D. But, it almost doesn't matter. Either Kennedy fired them and allowed them to make a statement to save face, or D&D decided to leave of their own accord. But either way, it's a terrible look for Lucasfilm.
We are talking about the best and biggest media franchise in American entertainment. If things are bad enough that the guys you hired to shepherd the next phase of your franchise, jump ship for Netflix?
It's either that, or you are making official announcements way before you should, counting your eggs before they hatch, or whatever you want to call it.
But this is not the kind of thing that should be happening. And the buck stops with Kathleen. Things are clearly a cluster**** behind the scenes and nobody is steering the ship.
It's time for a change. Get Favreau in there. Get Filoni. Get JJ. I don't care who it is, but it needs to be someone who the company can rally behind and who will clean up whatever mess is going on right now.
I could well be overreacting, but this is happened too many times by now. The writing is on the wall with the Rian Johnson deal, so expect that story to hit within the next few months, too.
Well, having read up some more on D&D's responses in their recent Q&A...holy cow. This might have been a good call.
Those guys were seriously flying by the seat of their pants. Still, this is the type of thing that should be figured out before hiring them.
How did they refuse to have a writers room for GoT?
Those guys were seriously flying by the seat of their pants. Still, this is the type of thing that should be figured out before hiring them.
How did they refuse to have a writers room for GoT?
The Star Wars franchise is being mismanaged? Color me shocked.
Great news about D&D tho. Those dudes shouldn't touch fantasy IP ever again.
Great news about D&D tho. Those dudes shouldn't touch fantasy IP ever again.
Maybe this is normal, but isn't the Last Jedi the only film they've put out that didn't go through heavy changes? The original screenwriter for Episode VII was **** canned too if my memory serves me correctly.
And, yea, it is time for Kennedy to go. Best case scenario, she's terrible at managing the perception of what is going on behind the scenes. Worst case scenario, this thing is a flaming dumpster fire without solid direction. I am leaning toward the latter.
Ironic considering it's also the most controversial entry in the franchise.
The reason it didn't have massive reshoots is BECAUSE it had a large room full of idiot writers that all loved what they came up with and no one to say "No, that's ****ing stupid!"
IMO, KK set out to make Star Wars a reimagined culture movement as opposed to great movies that would speak for themselves.
Completely diametrically opposed to what Lucas did in 77. SW was an amazing cinematic experience that spawned a cultural movement.
Further, this has resulted, IMO, in one exceptional film (R1), one good film (Solo), one mediocre (TFA), and one complete disaster (TLJ). From the looks of the previews, somebody was able to keep her far away from The Mandalorian (maybe Fav has that much swag, coming from the MCU, to the keep the boss out of his business?).
Completely diametrically opposed to what Lucas did in 77. SW was an amazing cinematic experience that spawned a cultural movement.
Further, this has resulted, IMO, in one exceptional film (R1), one good film (Solo), one mediocre (TFA), and one complete disaster (TLJ). From the looks of the previews, somebody was able to keep her far away from The Mandalorian (maybe Fav has that much swag, coming from the MCU, to the keep the boss out of his business?).
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Ironic considering it's also the most controversial entry in the franchise.
Well, yea, it makes you wonder what the other writers & directors were doing that was so troublesome, but then Kennedy just let Rian and his band of merry idiots do whatever the hell they wanted for a movie that is a huge deal to the entire franchise.
If by "large room full of idiot writers" you mean a large room full of writers that outlined A New Hope on one side of the white board then mirrored it on the other, totally agree.redline248 said:
The reason it didn't have massive reshoots is BECAUSE it had a large room full of idiot writers that all loved what they came up with and no one to say "No, that's ****ing stupid!"
I think Favreau can do anything he wants. He's a golden child within Disney, this is a property that has to work for Disney + which makes it bigger than just Lucasfilm, and he's also become friends with Filoni. That probably gets him absolute freedom.
I think he is talking about TLJ. The VII script was rewritten by JJ and Kasdan.
Urban Ag said:If by "large room full of idiot writers" you mean a large room full of writers that outlined A New Hope on one side of the white board then mirrored it on the other, totally agree.redline248 said:
The reason it didn't have massive reshoots is BECAUSE it had a large room full of idiot writers that all loved what they came up with and no one to say "No, that's ****ing stupid!"
Wait, weren't we talking about TLJ?
were we?
Meh....
Meh....
How so?redline248 said:
It's hard to fathom how much Disney has ****ed up the most iconic property in film history, yet here we are.
Serious question. Not being confrontational...I haven't kept up on everything, so I don't know.
Wouldn't most of the chaos with the property all fall back on Kennedy?
I mean, we've gotten good things and bad things since Disney took over. Rogue One is maybe my favorite SW movie now while the Last Jedi is dogsh*t.
The Mandalorian looks like it could be great, but maybe that's because Favreau comes from that Disney system and knows how to work with them.
Is Disney really that bad for the franchise?
Flip these.Quote:
one good film (Solo), one mediocre (TFA)
This is the biggest shortcoming of all, because it's the one that can't really be undone or rehabilitated. There was a divergence that occurred between 7 and 8 which took things in a permanently different direction than they could have gone. Maybe they'll be able to make something good out of 9 which will partially redeem the trilogy, but the lack of an overarching plan for the trilogy was the thing which kept if from being what it should have been.Quote:
And the fact the core trilogy had no guiding narrative from the start has been dumbfounding since Riann indicated he wanted to subvert everything and abandoned JJ's outline.
And, while Kennedy certainly deserves most of the blame for that, where were the other people that could have said "Hey, the Emperor is looking a little underdressed here, don't you think?"
I'm willing to do that. Matter of opinion.Brian Earl Spilner said:Flip these.Quote:
one good film (Solo), one mediocre (TFA)
I'd have to go back and find the post, but somewhere in this thread or on the Force Awakens thread I remember confidently stating how Lucasfilm has hammered out a basic story arc for the new trilogy and had fleshed out the characters, etc.
Boy was I wrong.
Boy was I wrong.
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I am willing to wait a week to see what news the rollout next. The timing could be very strategic. The trailer just released last week for IX to much fanfare, The Mandalorian debuts on the 12th. They could be setting up a huge announcement of the future of Star Wars in between to set up some good exposure for that show (also Disney +). These types of stories don't usually dump without strategy (well they shouldn't). Its either that, or they are dumping this news in the midst of what they feel like is about to be a big success of the show and the movie, but a little before it can completely overshadow both.
Also to those banging the drum for KK to be replaced....who would seriously want her job? Its a thankless, winless role. She produced a critically acclaimed, box-office smash in TLJ and its seen as a huge failure by the fan base. She produced the highest grossing domestic movie ever. Marvel and Lucasfilm comparisons are unfair as well, IMO. Marvel got to essentially start from scratch in film. Lucasfilm is trying to build on worlds and characters that were established on film already. Marvel can steal from the comics what works, and re-invent what doesn't. Lucasfilm has to walk a finer line in that regard. Also, I think we are all forgetting how touch and go it was for Marvel, even after the success of The Avengers. Phase II was a total mess (some great movies, some AWFUL), and Age of Ultron was a giant question mark on whether the MCU had legs. They were able to pull it together for a triumphant Phase III, but it didn't always look that way.
I'm not totally defending KK. I honestly think she will be gone soon, but if not, I am willing to wait and see how this all plays out.
Also to those banging the drum for KK to be replaced....who would seriously want her job? Its a thankless, winless role. She produced a critically acclaimed, box-office smash in TLJ and its seen as a huge failure by the fan base. She produced the highest grossing domestic movie ever. Marvel and Lucasfilm comparisons are unfair as well, IMO. Marvel got to essentially start from scratch in film. Lucasfilm is trying to build on worlds and characters that were established on film already. Marvel can steal from the comics what works, and re-invent what doesn't. Lucasfilm has to walk a finer line in that regard. Also, I think we are all forgetting how touch and go it was for Marvel, even after the success of The Avengers. Phase II was a total mess (some great movies, some AWFUL), and Age of Ultron was a giant question mark on whether the MCU had legs. They were able to pull it together for a triumphant Phase III, but it didn't always look that way.
I'm not totally defending KK. I honestly think she will be gone soon, but if not, I am willing to wait and see how this all plays out.
Understandable. Who wouldn't have at least a semi coherent outline for a three part multi-billion dollar undertaking?Belton Ag said:
I'd have to go back and find the post, but somewhere in this thread or on the Force Awakens thread I remember confidently stating how Lucasfilm has hammered out a basic story arc for the new trilogy and had fleshed out the characters, etc.
Boy was I wrong.
not to be a deek, but I basically see it nearly 180 degrees the other way
veryfuller
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Which part?
I'd take the Lucasfilm job. I'd hire Muckraker as lead consultant, TCTTS to helm the writing and production, Spilner as head of media relations (basically it's his job to relentlessly defend everything we do. You know, like he does on here.) and guys like Urban Ag and Cinco Ranch to hang out and drink beer and watch the movies with me.
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Right, I mean...sure all the fans think they could do a better job, so of course they want it. I meant quality, experienced producers who get that Lucasfilm has a fine line for success: getting new fans while appeasing the old ones. It seems like it would be a slam dunk, but after 4 films, its clear that those objectives may be opposed to each other.
GiveEmHellBill said:How so?redline248 said:
It's hard to fathom how much Disney has ****ed up the most iconic property in film history, yet here we are.
Serious question. Not being confrontational...I haven't kept up on everything, so I don't know.
Wouldn't most of the chaos with the property all fall back on Kennedy?
I mean, we've gotten good things and bad things since Disney took over. Rogue One is maybe my favorite SW movie now while the Last Jedi is dogsh*t.
The Mandalorian looks like it could be great, but maybe that's because Favreau comes from that Disney system and knows how to work with them.
Is Disney really that bad for the franchise?
My most simple answer is that I base things on the Saga films, and those have been a mess. It's no surprise the best of the new movies is the one that is a direct lead in to A New Hope. That movie literally had the major plot point developed for it and all they had to do was get from point A to B. And it still took 2 tries to get it.
The fact that the main saga has been cobbled together with no clear plan is a big screw up.
Rebels was awesome, I never watched resistance, and I'm really excited about the Mandalorian. But apparently Disney/Kennedy has stayed out of the way of those.
Maybe you're right that I should put the blame on Kennedy more than Disney, but they've kept her around during all the chaos and controversy.
Let me be clear... I don't think I could do a better job. I'm simply saying I would do the job and have a hell of a lot of fun in the process.veryfuller said:
Right, I mean...sure all the fans think they could do a better job, so of course they want it. I meant quality, experienced producers who get that Lucasfilm has a fine line for success: getting new fans while appeasing the old ones. It seems like it would be a slam dunk, but after 4 films, its clear that those objectives may be opposed to each other.
Where do I apply to get paid to drink beer and watch movies?
veryfuller
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Haha, and I didn't really mean to imply you wouldn't do a good job. I guess my point is who on Disney short list for that job would actually want it?
If you were a major stockholder in Disney, why would you fire Kennedy at this point? She's made so much money for you. And she's constantly got your franchise in the news and on the tongues of customers. Until there is a major financial flop, I don't see the pressure to fire her. I do think they will not look to renew the contract when it expires. At that point, they can bring in someone new.
redline248 said:GiveEmHellBill said:How so?redline248 said:
It's hard to fathom how much Disney has ****ed up the most iconic property in film history, yet here we are.
Serious question. Not being confrontational...I haven't kept up on everything, so I don't know.
Wouldn't most of the chaos with the property all fall back on Kennedy?
I mean, we've gotten good things and bad things since Disney took over. Rogue One is maybe my favorite SW movie now while the Last Jedi is dogsh*t.
The Mandalorian looks like it could be great, but maybe that's because Favreau comes from that Disney system and knows how to work with them.
Is Disney really that bad for the franchise?
My most simple answer is that I base things on the Saga films, and those have been a mess. It's no surprise the best of the new movies is the one that is a direct lead in to A New Hope. That movie literally had the major plot point developed for it and all they had to do was get from point A to B. And it still took 2 tries to get it.
The fact that the main saga has been cobbled together with no clear plan is a big screw up.
Rebels was awesome, I never watched resistance, and I'm really excited about the Mandalorian. But apparently Disney/Kennedy has stayed out of the way of those.
Maybe you're right that I should put the blame on Kennedy more than Disney, but they've kept her around during all the chaos and controversy.
It still surprises me that so many people on here haven't watched Rebels, when other than Rogue One, it's probably the best Disney Star Wars offering there is so far.
Sounds like George during the prequelsredline248 said:
The reason it didn't have massive reshoots is BECAUSE it had a large room full of idiot writers that all loved what they came up with and no one to say "No, that's ****ing stupid!"
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