Star Wars Discussion Thread

3,066,885 Views | 29597 Replies | Last: 9 hrs ago by Brian Earl Spilner
Sex Panther
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Agreed. I believe she is definitely a Targaryen
TCTTS
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Hilariously, that's actually not too far from an existing theory that she's the daughter of Han and Qi'ra's potential love child in Solo.
Sex Panther
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H + Q = R
TCTTS
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redline248
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It's not so much the looks or the questions being asked. It's that the question is left unanswered over and over. Don't show us the gun, if you're not going to use it.

Don't make a big deal about "who is she" if you never answer it, and especially if she isn't anyone. Why? You end up with the majority of fans dissatisfied later.
Brian Earl Spilner
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TCTTS
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redline248 said:

It's not so much the looks or the questions being asked. It's that the question is left unanswered over and over. Don't show us the gun, if you're not going to use it.

Don't make a big deal about "who is she" if you never answer it, and especially if she isn't anyone. Why? You end up with the majority of fans dissatisfied later.

But even then, the "Who is she?" aspect of TFA has never come across to me as "Who is this important person who clearly has a special history?" If some foreign player hardly anyone had heard of showed up in the NBA one year, and absolutely killed it, yet we didn't know anything about his family, I wouldn't automatically assume he's Dirk Nowitzki's kid. I'd ask where he came from not because I assume his did had to be a great NBA star as well, but because I'd be curious as to how a situation like this could happen in the first place.

That, and the question is never answered in TFA because no one knows the answer. There's a difference between the movie asking the question and the characters simply being curious, and I think it's much more the latter in this case. It just seems perfectly natural to me that two or three characters would wonder who this random girl is who's wrecking shop, not because she has to have some amazing backstory, but simply because they'd never heard of her before now. She's unexpected, but unexpected doesn't also have to mean that her backstory is of consequence to them or to the story.

Again, I just chalk all of this up to Abrams being obsessed with the mystery box more than anything. He's even admitted that it doesn't matter what's inside, so as long as it holds the audience's attention, which I think is incredibly dumb. Here, though, I don't even think he actively meant to do it, or even had an answer, it's just his natural inclination, and now everyone's left interpreting every little eyebrow tick because of his short-sided-ness.
redline248
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You say that it never came across to you about who or why she is important, but after you saw TFA you typed in your own review:
Quote:

And if Rey really does turn out to be a Kenobi, all the better (I'm sorry, but there's no way she's Luke's daughter). That's one mystery I'm glad they saved.
So even then you thought there was the possibility of her being related to someone. Maybe you didn't think it was important, but the movie gave you enough that you were thinking about it.
TCTTS
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it wasn't the movie that gave me that, though, it was all the fan speculation. Hence me referencing the Kenobi angle, which was a fan theory, and not at all anything that was referenced in the movie. Also, that was FOUR years ago. A lot has changed/happened since then.
redline248
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Ok fine. I still believe that most left that movie thinking Rey was related to someone. Whether you understand it or not doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Belton Ag
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I'd like to point out that the whole reason I thought she was tied into the Skywalker bloodline in some way was primarily due to this trailer:



Lucasfilm was plenty guilty of fueling the speculation on the lineage of Rey, and Johnson's turning that on its ear was one of the more irritating things about the new trilogy so far.
TCTTS
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I'll give it to you that that trailer could be interpreted - more than anything in-movie - as hinting at a Skywalker lineage. Absolutely. Also - damn - that trailer is still fantastic. Wow.

My only two points are this...

1) Forget the marketing or what anyone has alluded to or teased outside of the movie itself. When it comes to the exact narrative featured in TFA, strictly on the contents of the story, I don't think Johnson betrayed anything having to do with Rey's "lineage."

2) Now that Johnson did go the direction he went, personally, I don't want a retcon. If anything can be salvaged from TLJ, let's at least stick to the conclusion/theme that bloodlines don't matter. Let's at least tell a complete, relatively coherent story in terms of theme instead of outright ignoring those of TLJ. I still don't like the movie, but at least it can matter on a thematic level.
redline248
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TLJ deserves to be ignored
redline248
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If only I could
Brian Earl Spilner
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I've yet to see a better marketing campaign than the one for TFA, purely from a "hype" perspective. Just perfection.

And yes, I'm including Infinity War.
Rex Racer
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I don't think Rey has to be related to any strong force user we know, but it is clear from Star Wars history that bloodlines do matter. The force runs to various degrees in family lineage. I don't see how that is debatable.
Belton Ag
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While it's easy to dismiss fan speculation and even hints the actors and filmmakers might give us in the run up to a move, It's difficult for me to dismiss the official marketing coming from Lucasfilm. That kind of marketing combined with Arbrams' featuring the mystery around Rey was the bait and TLJ was the switch.
redline248
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He probably said it better and more concisely than me.
Ag Since 83
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I think "bloodlines don't matter" is a bit of an oversimplification. The point is that for Rey to find happiness/purpose/belonging/destiny/whatever, the answer isn't looking back, it's looking forward. And that message was consistent in both TFA and TLJ.
Brian Earl Spilner
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At least the scenes are in the movie.

Looking at you Marvel.
TCTTS
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Well said.
TCTTS
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Belton Ag said:

While it's easy to dismiss fan speculation and even hints the actors and filmmakers might give us in the run up to a move, It's difficult for me to dismiss the official marketing coming from Lucasfilm. That kind of marketing combined with Arbrams' featuring the mystery around Rey was the bait and TLJ was the switch.

But even the marketing is up for interpretation. I don't think it was done with the explicit purpose of hinting at Rey's potential bloodline. In other words, I think the Luke voice over was simply something they thought was cool, or hinted at more of a metaphorical/generational handing-of-the-torch kind of thing. I think Abrams/Lucasfilm simply didn't consider the ramifications of that combined with the mystery surrounding Rey. Also, let's not forget that, throughout all of this, Kylo IS a Skywalker. Which was made clear like half an hour or so into TFA. A lot of this Skywalker-themed marketing could easily be interpreted as being about him. Bottom line, I just think Lucasfilm was maybe a bit clumsy, for lack of a better word. But there's literally nothing that intentionally hints at Rey being of an important bloodline.
TCTTS
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For those who want Rey to still indeed be related to someone "special," I guess at this point my question is why? I see a lot of "Johnson shouldn't have done what he did" type sentiments. And on some level, I agree. But what's done is done. So I'm literally asking, in your minds, is it worth going back on the conclusion/message of his movie (that Rey is nobody from nowhere) to now do ANOTHER retcon and say, "Just kidding"? Forget whether Johnson was right or wrong in dong so. Right now, given the story as it currently exists, if you still want Rey's lineage to be of importance - at the risk of ANOTHER retcon - why? I'm genuinely curious.
John Matrix
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I really liked that they made Rey a "nobody" in TLJ. I have my problems with the film, but having her lineage being inconsequential was actually a really great idea. With all this talk of legacy and family lineage of the Skywalkers, it's kind of refreshing to go another way.

On another note, I'm really strangely looking forward to TLJ rewatch in November because of the reactions on here. TLJ is half a truly great Star Wars film, and half AOTC level bad. It's kind of fascinating how much this film gets right and how badly it fumbles other things. I still don't think it's eorthy of the disdain to it shown by some people on here.
Belton Ag
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I don't really want to see Rey's lineage touched on again because, as you said, what's done is done. If they did decide to retcon Rey they run the risk of ruining Episode IX because to do so successfully would require masterfully clever writing that I don't think JJ and Terrio are capable of. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I think they're poor filmmakers or anything, I just don't think many would be capable of retconning Rey's story in a way that wouldn't seem cheap. It's just too soon since TLJ.
redline248
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I find it slightly amusing that people are concerned about undoing TLJ, when it can be argued TLJ undid TFA.

To the point, though, I honestly don't know if I want Rey to be from any bloodline or not. If we assume Kylo did what Sith do and lied to her, who is going to tell her that? Luke? Probably not, bc he didn't know who she was. Leia? Unlikely. Felicity, I mean Keri Russell? Possible, but that requires a lot of time dedicated to who her character is, why she knows, etc. It's just problematic, and it doesn't really matter anyway. I'm not going to be upset if she's not.

My only complaint, which I know everyone doesn't agree with, is that TFA did create extra mystery about who she is. That fueled the 2 year frenzy of speculation. Whether it's JJ's fault or Rian's, it was a mistake.
jabberwalkie09
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redline248 said:

I find it slightly amusing that people are concerned about undoing TLJ, when it can be argued TLJ undid TFA.

To the point, though, I honestly don't know if I want Rey to be from any bloodline or not. If we assume Kylo did what Sith do and lied to her, who is going to tell her that? Luke? Probably not, bc he didn't know who she was. Leia? Unlikely. Felicity, I mean Keri Russell? Possible, but that requires a lot of time dedicated to who her character is, why she knows, etc. It's just problematic, and it doesn't really matter anyway. I'm not going to be upset if she's not.

My only complaint, which I know everyone doesn't agree with, is that TFA did create extra mystery about who she is. That fueled the 2 year frenzy of speculation. Whether it's JJ's fault or Rian's, it was a mistake.

Episode IX should do what Star Trek Beyond did with Into Darkness, completely ignore TLJ.
Agsrback12
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I don't understand how anything Kylo Ren said cannot be a lie.
Brian Earl Spilner
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It's Celebration week!
Brian Earl Spilner
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IMO, the fact that it's a mystery is a reason why many would think it might be important to the story.

Similar to how in tv shows, things that are "mysterious" usually end up being important, ie. Jon Snow's mother. That kind of thing.

In this case, it was a red herring, which I'm fine with.
twilly
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Celebration roll call?

IN
Brian Earl Spilner
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Here.
Flashdiaz
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going to nerd out here for a bit...

in this video there's a clip from TLJ where you see Kylo's padawan blue saber... when it's unlit, it looks like it has the cross hilt things, but in metal form like a prototype.


(this pic compares Kylo to Ben's saber)

when he blocks Luke's attack, there's no cross hilt thing. further, if you slow down when Kylo force pulls it, the saber disappears but the crosshilt remains for a split millisecond.

Seems to be an Intentional detail to show Ben was already thinking about changing up his saber to what he used as Kylo when Luke has his moment of Rage (again).

Brian Earl Spilner
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Neat.
redline248
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Not saying it isn't possible, but the cross hilts on Kylo's saber are the result of its unstable nature. The let excess energy out, that would otherwise destroy the saber, or something

Quote:

The lightsaber, based on an ancient design dating back to the Great Scourge of Malachor, contained a cracked Kyber crystal, requiring it to have lateral vents on either side of the handle in order to divert the extra heat generated by the crystal.


https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Kylo_Ren%27s_lightsaber
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