Star Wars Discussion Thread

fig96
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bangobango said:

fig96 said:

cbr said:

oh and lol, how is it possible for any ******* to make a star wars franchise movie and get a 46% score at rotten tomatoes? LOL.

i'll tell you how, make a movie worse than phantom menace (55%), finish off two of the most iconic characters in movie history in an insulting, asinine way, and fill it full of PC bull**** agendas....
Actually, it's largely because there was literally an organized campaign from some very sad individuals who wanted to torpedo the film. Which you'd know if you'd paid any attention at all.
One guy making a facebook post that he "botted" the Last Jedi fan score does not prove anything. no matter how much Disney pushes that it does or the shill movie sites repeat Disney's talking point on it.

Star Wars fans, the vast majority, hated this movie. Just look at posts, youtube videos, conversations in person with fans, and the Solo bomb. It all points to the obvious if you don't choose to willfully ignore it.

This defense of TLJ is the most massive gas lighting for a movie I have ever seen. Episode IX, like Solo, will further expose what the majority of star wars fans are saying - that TLJ was a complete failure of a movie.
It doesn't, but the really low score before the film released sure does.

We're unfortunately seeing this more and more, "fans" tanking the rating of a film before it releases.

And again, the Solo bomb has far less to do with TLJ than many want it to. Most Star Wars fans saw Solo, and even if they hadn't they aren't the big piece of revenue. It's the casual fans that make up that blockbuster money, and Solo just didn't get them into the theaters.
Urban Ag
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So I just finished my third viewing of TLJ yesterday. When I watch movies while exercising I seem to pick more up as it has my the entire focus (the whole point being distraction).

Pause there. Back in the summer of 2015 they released a "behind the scenes" trailer for TFA that was really well done. It hit the nostalgia big time and there was a lot of emotion in hearing and seeing the original cast members. In the trailer, one of the new actors (don't recall who) said TFA was being made very carefully, with a lot of love and respect, or something to that effect.

I will say this. TFA is just mediocre to me and the TLJ is solidly "meh" from my perspective. But both films are well made. No question in my mind that the men and women that brought these to the screen did so in a labor of love. I'm not fond of the characters in general or the plot/storyline as a whole, but it's clear that those involved poured themselves in to these films. Someone posted here once that "Prometheus was the most beautiful piece of sh** they'd ever seen on screen". Not willing to go that far but it kind of sums up where I am at with the new trilogy.
MuckRaker96
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Breaking news.

I liked TFA

I liked TLJ

I liked Solo
bangobango
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fig96 said:

bangobango said:

fig96 said:

cbr said:

oh and lol, how is it possible for any ******* to make a star wars franchise movie and get a 46% score at rotten tomatoes? LOL.

i'll tell you how, make a movie worse than phantom menace (55%), finish off two of the most iconic characters in movie history in an insulting, asinine way, and fill it full of PC bull**** agendas....
Actually, it's largely because there was literally an organized campaign from some very sad individuals who wanted to torpedo the film. Which you'd know if you'd paid any attention at all.
One guy making a facebook post that he "botted" the Last Jedi fan score does not prove anything. no matter how much Disney pushes that it does or the shill movie sites repeat Disney's talking point on it.

Star Wars fans, the vast majority, hated this movie. Just look at posts, youtube videos, conversations in person with fans, and the Solo bomb. It all points to the obvious if you don't choose to willfully ignore it.

This defense of TLJ is the most massive gas lighting for a movie I have ever seen. Episode IX, like Solo, will further expose what the majority of star wars fans are saying - that TLJ was a complete failure of a movie.
It doesn't, but the really low score before the film released sure does.

We're unfortunately seeing this more and more, "fans" tanking the rating of a film before it releases.

And again, the Solo bomb has far less to do with TLJ than many want it to. Most Star Wars fans saw Solo, and even if they hadn't they aren't the big piece of revenue. It's the casual fans that make up that blockbuster money, and Solo just didn't get them into the theaters.


Movie gets bad fan reviews - somebody hacked the review.

Movie has massive drop after first weekend - it's because it was on a holiday/other made so much money first weekend it had further to fall.

Toy sales go into the ****ter - nobody buys toys anymore.

Star Wars movie bombs at box office - everyone has star Wars fatigue.

Massive internet backlash against movie on forums and social media - it's just a small angry minority of Alt-right nerds that make a lot of noise.

What other excuses am I leaving out?
Render
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Indeed, you can tell they cared, but you can't live in good intentions.


Render
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You forgot that the Chinese don't like StarWars.
fig96
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bangobango said:

fig96 said:

bangobango said:

fig96 said:

cbr said:

oh and lol, how is it possible for any ******* to make a star wars franchise movie and get a 46% score at rotten tomatoes? LOL.

i'll tell you how, make a movie worse than phantom menace (55%), finish off two of the most iconic characters in movie history in an insulting, asinine way, and fill it full of PC bull**** agendas....
Actually, it's largely because there was literally an organized campaign from some very sad individuals who wanted to torpedo the film. Which you'd know if you'd paid any attention at all.
One guy making a facebook post that he "botted" the Last Jedi fan score does not prove anything. no matter how much Disney pushes that it does or the shill movie sites repeat Disney's talking point on it.

Star Wars fans, the vast majority, hated this movie. Just look at posts, youtube videos, conversations in person with fans, and the Solo bomb. It all points to the obvious if you don't choose to willfully ignore it.

This defense of TLJ is the most massive gas lighting for a movie I have ever seen. Episode IX, like Solo, will further expose what the majority of star wars fans are saying - that TLJ was a complete failure of a movie.
It doesn't, but the really low score before the film released sure does.

We're unfortunately seeing this more and more, "fans" tanking the rating of a film before it releases.

And again, the Solo bomb has far less to do with TLJ than many want it to. Most Star Wars fans saw Solo, and even if they hadn't they aren't the big piece of revenue. It's the casual fans that make up that blockbuster money, and Solo just didn't get them into the theaters.


Movie gets bad fan reviews - somebody hacked the review.

Movie has massive drop after first weekend - it's because it was on a holiday/other made so much money first weekend it had further to fall.

Toy sales go into the ****ter - nobody buys toys anymore.

Star Wars movie bombs at box office - everyone has star Wars fatigue.

Massive internet backlash against movie on forums and social media - it's just a small angry minority of Alt-right nerds that make a lot of noise.

What other excuses am I leaving out?
Bad reviews are bad reviews. Bad reviews before a movie releases are something else.

People didn't love the film and that's fine, but acting like most people hated it is disingenuous. Casual fans freakin' love Transformers, taste is not that discering.

Honestly, do you really think casual fans are that upset about Star Wars? Your average fan isn't off venting on social media and forums.

It is a vocal minority, other people may not have loved it but have just moved on.
bangobango
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Define a casual fan.
Ag Since 83
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You guys spend a lot of time obsessing about biased response internet polls
fig96
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bangobango said:

Define a casual fan.
People that make up the majority of box office revenue.
Social Media Influencer
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Honestly, do you really think casual fans are that upset about Star Wars? Your average fan isn't off venting on social media and forums.
This is Star Wars, not Star Trek. The gap between casual fans and fans that care about the story isn't too wide. Early SW films created casual and passionate fans. Did TFA or TLJ produce new fans? Are stores having trouble keeping SW merchandise in stock? Are kids wearing SW shirts to school? Are people quoting great lines from the TLJ in conversations at work or school? I don't know the answers to all those questions, but I think it's far-fetched to act like hardcore lifelong SW junkies were the only ones disappointed. And I'm more on the casual end of the spectrum than a lot of posters on this thread.
bearamedic99
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Hey, don't knock Star Trek.

Abrams-verse ST > SW New trilogy
Urban Ag
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Good point. I use my kids as the barometer here. 9 and 12 year old boys. Target demo. They've always loved SW, especially Lego SW. We've still have Lego SW stuff all over the place.

They've seen all four of the Disney era SW movies in the theater. The "like" them but when it boils down to it, they really just seem to like the things designed for kids to love like Chewbacca, BB8, and porgs. Otherwise, they really don't show any interest. Not even close to how much they are into the MCU.
Hagen95
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I like the kid barometer as well (11 year old daughters, 9 year old son). They liked TFA, were lukewarm to Rogue One and TLJ, and enjoyed Solo. They have no interest in the MCU movies. My son gets geeked out over the Jurassic World movies. My daughters would rather read a book than go to the movies.

I think Star Wars saga movies have always targeted a young audience while the spin offs (RO and Solo) are more for older fans.
bangobango
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ChiliBeans said:


Quote:

Honestly, do you really think casual fans are that upset about Star Wars? Your average fan isn't off venting on social media and forums.
This is Star Wars, not Star Trek. The gap between casual fans and fans that care about the story isn't too wide. Early SW films created casual and passionate fans. Did TFA or TLJ produce new fans? Are stores having trouble keeping SW merchandise in stock? Are kids wearing SW shirts to school? Are people quoting great lines from the TLJ in conversations at work or school? I don't know the answers to all those questions, but I think it's far-fetched to act like hardcore lifelong SW junkies were the only ones disappointed. And I'm more on the casual end of the spectrum than a lot of posters on this thread.
It's ridiculous to think a "casual fan" (whatever that is since he won't define it) doesn't care about good storytelling and won't stop going to movies if they're not telling good stories. If anything, they'll "boycott" faster than a "hardcore" fan because they don't have the emotional attachment a hard core fan might have.

They didn't go to Solo b/c TLJ was crap. They won't go to Episode IX because TLJ was crap.
Social Media Influencer
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If anything, they'll "boycott" faster than a "hardcore" fan because they don't have the emotional attachment a hard core fan might have.
I started thinking about that too. The hardcore fans have a lot more invested, financially and emotionally.
fig96
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bangobango said:

ChiliBeans said:


Quote:

Honestly, do you really think casual fans are that upset about Star Wars? Your average fan isn't off venting on social media and forums.
This is Star Wars, not Star Trek. The gap between casual fans and fans that care about the story isn't too wide. Early SW films created casual and passionate fans. Did TFA or TLJ produce new fans? Are stores having trouble keeping SW merchandise in stock? Are kids wearing SW shirts to school? Are people quoting great lines from the TLJ in conversations at work or school? I don't know the answers to all those questions, but I think it's far-fetched to act like hardcore lifelong SW junkies were the only ones disappointed. And I'm more on the casual end of the spectrum than a lot of posters on this thread.
It's ridiculous to think a "casual fan" (whatever that is since he won't define it) doesn't care about good storytelling and won't stop going to movies if they're not telling good stories. If anything, they'll "boycott" faster than a "hardcore" fan because they don't have the emotional attachment a hard core fan might have.

They didn't go to Solo b/c TLJ was crap. They won't go to Episode IX because TLJ was crap.
I'll take that bet. And I don't believe that's why casual fans didn't go to Solo, but I'm obviously not going to convince you of anything else.

And it's not that I "won't define it" but had to run to a meeting.

The casual fans are the ones that get out to see big event movies. They went to see TLJ because it was a big deal, they went to see Infinity War because it was a big deal and probably Black Panther because everyone was talking about it. That's why those movies make $600m plus.

Solo came soon after another Star Wars film and didn't have a ton of buzz despite being a really fun summer popcorn flick, and the casual fans didn't get out to see it.
John Matrix
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MuckRaker96 said:

Breaking news.

I liked TFA

I liked TLJ


I liked Solo


I know there's sarcasm intended here, but that's exactly how I've felt about the Disney wars so far. They're good, sometimes great, but are two disorganized and unwieldy to be considered classics with the ot. They all average out to be....pretty good?
fig96
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ChiliBeans said:


Quote:

Honestly, do you really think casual fans are that upset about Star Wars? Your average fan isn't off venting on social media and forums.
This is Star Wars, not Star Trek. The gap between casual fans and fans that care about the story isn't too wide. Early SW films created casual and passionate fans. Did TFA or TLJ produce new fans? Are stores having trouble keeping SW merchandise in stock? Are kids wearing SW shirts to school? Are people quoting great lines from the TLJ in conversations at work or school? I don't know the answers to all those questions, but I think it's far-fetched to act like hardcore lifelong SW junkies were the only ones disappointed. And I'm more on the casual end of the spectrum than a lot of posters on this thread.
Did TFA create new fans? Absolutely, my nephews live in both Star Wars and Marvel gear. Most of us here were pretty thrilled with TFA and it made (literally) a billion dollars, not sure why that's suddenly being lumped in with TLJ.

I don't think your average viewer is an invested in Star Wars as many seem to think and don't have as storng opinions to what "should" have happened in TFA. Even now a lot of the hardcore fans on this thread enjoyed TFA, or at least certainly didn't dislike it enough to go venting on social media. There's a vocal group that didn't like TFA and they're more than entitled to do, but I think they're a smaller group than some believe. Squeaky wheels and all that.

I'm sure there were more casual fans who didn't like TFA, just like there are with any film. But I don't believe that had as much impact on Solo box office as some seem to think, I think it was a badly timed film that should have gotten a lot more viewership.
Social Media Influencer
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not sure why that's suddenly being lumped in with TLJ.
I only "lumped it in" in the question about creating new fans. I don't have kids and haven't done any research on merchandise sales. Can't say I have my fingers on the pulse of kids today. But I don't hear anyone excited about or quoting TLJ, or notice people sporting SW gear these days. I'd be very surprised if there were a bunch of Kylos and Lukes next Halloween.

I did have young nephews when the prequels and animated series were coming out, so I had a little better idea back then. Knights of the Old Republic was one of my grand scores as a cool uncle on Christmas.

But I'm adamant that Star Wars has a cultural significance that no other film franchise can claim, and the gulf between casual fans and serious fans isn't that big. Nobody finishes a Star Wars movie and says "Eh, whatever!"
bangobango
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fig96 said:

bangobango said:

ChiliBeans said:


Quote:

Honestly, do you really think casual fans are that upset about Star Wars? Your average fan isn't off venting on social media and forums.
This is Star Wars, not Star Trek. The gap between casual fans and fans that care about the story isn't too wide. Early SW films created casual and passionate fans. Did TFA or TLJ produce new fans? Are stores having trouble keeping SW merchandise in stock? Are kids wearing SW shirts to school? Are people quoting great lines from the TLJ in conversations at work or school? I don't know the answers to all those questions, but I think it's far-fetched to act like hardcore lifelong SW junkies were the only ones disappointed. And I'm more on the casual end of the spectrum than a lot of posters on this thread.
It's ridiculous to think a "casual fan" (whatever that is since he won't define it) doesn't care about good storytelling and won't stop going to movies if they're not telling good stories. If anything, they'll "boycott" faster than a "hardcore" fan because they don't have the emotional attachment a hard core fan might have.

They didn't go to Solo b/c TLJ was crap. They won't go to Episode IX because TLJ was crap.
I'll take that bet. And I don't believe that's why casual fans didn't go to Solo, but I'm obviously not going to convince you of anything else.

And it's not that I "won't define it" but had to run to a meeting.

The casual fans are the ones that get out to see big event movies. They went to see TLJ because it was a big deal, they went to see Infinity War because it was a big deal and probably Black Panther because everyone was talking about it. That's why those movies make $600m plus.

Solo came soon after another Star Wars film and didn't have a ton of buzz despite being a really fun summer popcorn flick, and the casual fans didn't get out to see it.
I am not trying to be condescending here, so I apologize if it comes off that way in advance, but I don't think the casual movie-going public is just a bunch of lemmings that turn-out for "big event" movies regardless of the quality of the film or the series. If that's the case, then the DCEU wouldn't be the huge flop that it has been.

I think maybe you think that way now because of the impressive run Disney has had with many of their franchises, especially Marvel, but for every big movie that makes a lot of money, there is at least one more that doesn't and flops. Star Wars is heading that way and Solo is the canary in the coal mine.
Urban Ag
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I know lots of SW fans and don't recall any of them mentioning they passed on Solo because they were so disappointed with TLJ.

In the big picture, yes, I agree that disappointment in the TLJ had some negative consequences for Solo. But so did the decision to have it compete against IW and Deadpool. Releasing it during two of the busiest weeks of the year for families also didn't help. And just having had a SW movie released five month prior produced a hangover effect as well. Disney caused a lot of their own problem here.

fig96
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bangobango said:

fig96 said:

bangobango said:

ChiliBeans said:


Quote:

Honestly, do you really think casual fans are that upset about Star Wars? Your average fan isn't off venting on social media and forums.
This is Star Wars, not Star Trek. The gap between casual fans and fans that care about the story isn't too wide. Early SW films created casual and passionate fans. Did TFA or TLJ produce new fans? Are stores having trouble keeping SW merchandise in stock? Are kids wearing SW shirts to school? Are people quoting great lines from the TLJ in conversations at work or school? I don't know the answers to all those questions, but I think it's far-fetched to act like hardcore lifelong SW junkies were the only ones disappointed. And I'm more on the casual end of the spectrum than a lot of posters on this thread.
It's ridiculous to think a "casual fan" (whatever that is since he won't define it) doesn't care about good storytelling and won't stop going to movies if they're not telling good stories. If anything, they'll "boycott" faster than a "hardcore" fan because they don't have the emotional attachment a hard core fan might have.

They didn't go to Solo b/c TLJ was crap. They won't go to Episode IX because TLJ was crap.
I'll take that bet. And I don't believe that's why casual fans didn't go to Solo, but I'm obviously not going to convince you of anything else.

And it's not that I "won't define it" but had to run to a meeting.

The casual fans are the ones that get out to see big event movies. They went to see TLJ because it was a big deal, they went to see Infinity War because it was a big deal and probably Black Panther because everyone was talking about it. That's why those movies make $600m plus.

Solo came soon after another Star Wars film and didn't have a ton of buzz despite being a really fun summer popcorn flick, and the casual fans didn't get out to see it.
I am not trying to be condescending here, so I apologize if it comes off that way in advance, but I don't think the casual movie-going public is just a bunch of lemmings that turn-out for "big event" movies regardless of the quality of the film or the series. If that's the case, then the DCEU wouldn't be the huge flop that it has been.

I think maybe you think that way now because of the impressive run Disney has had with many of their franchises, especially Marvel, but for every big movie that makes a lot of money, there is at least one more that doesn't and flops. Star Wars is heading that way and Solo is the canary in the coal mine.
Batman vs Superman made $330 million domestically ($166 million opening) and Justice League made $230 million ($93 million opening). Those movies should have made far more, but people absolutely went out to see them especially on the hyped up opening weekends.

Rotten Tomatoes and general internet buzz has fans more savvy than they used to be and gives any film a shorter window to be successful, but big tentpole films with good word of mouth still generally get solid to very good box office results. Big tentpole films with bad reviews tend to peter out (as in the DCEU's case).

While there may have been some people who didn't go see Solo due to their dissatisfaction with the franchise, I think it was a victim of bad timing and potentially a bit of Star Wars fatigue more than anything else.

People will still get out to see Episode IX, especially after 18 months without a Star Wars film and as the final chapter, but we've got a while to wait to find out.
Hagen95
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Quote:

I am not trying to be condescending here, so I apologize if it comes off that way in advance, but I don't think the casual movie-going public is just a bunch of lemmings that turn-out for "big event" movies regardless of the quality of the film or the series.

There have been 10 Fast and Furious movies.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Because they've been good.
WestAustinAg
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fig96 said:

bangobango said:

fig96 said:

cbr said:

oh and lol, how is it possible for any ******* to make a star wars franchise movie and get a 46% score at rotten tomatoes? LOL.

i'll tell you how, make a movie worse than phantom menace (55%), finish off two of the most iconic characters in movie history in an insulting, asinine way, and fill it full of PC bull**** agendas....
Actually, it's largely because there was literally an organized campaign from some very sad individuals who wanted to torpedo the film. Which you'd know if you'd paid any attention at all.
One guy making a facebook post that he "botted" the Last Jedi fan score does not prove anything. no matter how much Disney pushes that it does or the shill movie sites repeat Disney's talking point on it.

Star Wars fans, the vast majority, hated this movie. Just look at posts, youtube videos, conversations in person with fans, and the Solo bomb. It all points to the obvious if you don't choose to willfully ignore it.

This defense of TLJ is the most massive gas lighting for a movie I have ever seen. Episode IX, like Solo, will further expose what the majority of star wars fans are saying - that TLJ was a complete failure of a movie.
It doesn't, but the really low score before the film released sure does.

We're unfortunately seeing this more and more, "fans" tanking the rating of a film before it releases.

And again, the Solo bomb has far less to do with TLJ than many want it to. Most Star Wars fans saw Solo, and even if they hadn't they aren't the big piece of revenue. It's the casual fans that make up that blockbuster money, and Solo just didn't get them into the theaters.
I'm no expert but the early reviews of TLJ were off the scale positive. I was so excited to hear that this was going to be such a fantastic movie. I didn't go see it immediately and it took days before I started hearing that it was "interesting", "different", questionable, etc. Go read the threads on this board the week before and the week after. It had the highest ratings I'd ever seen for a SW movie.
TexAgs is THE largest premium team site community on the Internet. Period. Perio...you get the idea.
Hagen95
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So have all the Star Wars movies and yet here we are.
Gigem314
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Rewatched TLJ last night on Netflix for the first time since seeing it in the theater.

I still like it overall, more-so after seeing it again. The most cringe-worthy part of it for me is Rose's character...can't stand it any more than I did the first time, so nothing changed there. I like the added humor, something the prequels were severely lacking.

Luke's character arc is more acceptable for me the second time around. Though like many I still would have preferred he have an actual in-person lightsaber battle and show some of his power.

The whole "Poe was made out to be the hot-head being told what to do by the women" thing was severely overblown. His growth of character makes sense as the movie goes on, and in the end he becomes the leader they look to.

It doesn't touch the original trilogy, but I think it's a good/decent SW movie, just behind TFA. Better than the prequels.

Hoping JJ can close the final chapter on a high note and give the fans more of what they were looking for.
jabberwalkie09
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Because they've been good.

I'm not sure we watched the same last entry to the Fast and Furious franchise.
Brian Earl Spilner
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It's watchable. Admittedly the level of quality has been diminishing with each entry. 1 and 5 are the best.
bangobango
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Hagen95 said:

Quote:

I am not trying to be condescending here, so I apologize if it comes off that way in advance, but I don't think the casual movie-going public is just a bunch of lemmings that turn-out for "big event" movies regardless of the quality of the film or the series.

There have been 10 Fast and Furious movies.
haven't watched them since the second one, but I think they make a majority of their boss office over seas.
bearamedic99
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10? wow.
Brian Earl Spilner
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8
Brian Earl Spilner
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http://instagr.am/p/Bk3b8q-H6tv
redline248
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Hagen95 said:

So have all the Star Wars movies and yet here we are.


1. Empire
2. Return of the Jedi
3. Star Wars
4. Force Awakens
5. Rogue One
6. FF1
7. FF5
8. Solo
9. Sith
10. FF4
11. Phantom Menace
12. FF6
13. Clones
14. FF2
15. FF7
16. FF8
17. Last Jedi
18. FF3
Page 741 of 834
 
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