Star Wars Discussion Thread

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Cinco Ranch Aggie
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TCTTS said:

- Imagine if any single planet or environment in TFA actually felt like something we hadn't seen a dozen times before.
I actually agree with much of this. Regarding the bolded section on the planets, that was a major annoyance for me but we did get to see a bunch of new planets in Sith, granted most of that was only for a few minutes screen time during the Emperor's Jedi purge.

TFA is a good movie, though, and it is entertaining. I just would like to have seen a bit more originality in it.

Edit - FIFW (fixed it for whiners)
Zombie Jon Snow
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for the love of God....QUIT BLOCK QUOTING THAT GARBAGE.


If you feel compelled to reply....cut out all but the relevant section,
AliasMan02
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I say this every time it comes up, but, TFA was exactly what it needed to be to restore faith in the franchise. I think people forget how "done" with Star Wars much of the public was. All of the familiar notes, while they detract from the film's potential, were clearly designed to make the movie accessible to fans of the original and use nostalgia to bring them back into the fold.

None of that makes TFA a "better" movie, but it puts it all in the right light. It also course corrects the franchise and sets us up going forward.
redline248
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Zombie Jon Snow said:


for the love of God....QUIT BLOCK QUOTING THAT GARBAGE.


If you feel compelled to reply....cut out all but the relevant section,


Seriously! No need to quote the whole freaking thing
I Have Spoken
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My son loves TFA in a way that I remember loving ROTJ... fakes battles happening all over the house and annoying mom and dad with questions about seemingly inane details (though, I receive these better than my dad did). While I believe that he understands the movie itself is not real.... I can tell that he isn't 100% sure that this galaxy does not exist. For that reason, I will always have a special place in my heart for TFA. It made Star Wars relevant again in my family. It's really the reason we started to watch Rebels together and my kid began amassing toys. Without TFA, I don't think the connection with the OT is fully realized for my son.

One thing I really like about Star Wars is that it has a way of introducing complex topics for younger kids without being crude or overly violent. I respect them for being willing to go there but doing it in a tasteful manner. I get all of the complaints about TFA and how it could be a better movie, but I will continue to be a fanboy... mostly because it created a new fanboy in my house, and all it took was me putting on the bluray in my home.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Damn, tell us how you really feel.

I feel like your frustration has been growing with this movie and you finally just exploded, huh?
I Have Spoken
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Damn, tell us how you really feel.

I feel like your frustration has been growing with this movie and you finally just exploded, huh?


It is "TheForce.net" level anger.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Since we got a few days to kill, I'll post this. (Obviously fan-made, but kind of cool.)

I Have Spoken
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Something from the Star Wars show that I posted yesterday for those who won't watch... Andi refers to Hayden as "the sand hating Sith Lord" in the Celebration announcement. I love her so much.
wangus12
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I like the use of the word IMAGINE. Makes me feel like the entire thing was made up for entertainment purposes.
boogieman
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TCTTS said:

*A* shot in the arm, no doubt. "Exactly the shot in the arm" it needed? No way. Granted, it probably couldn't have made much more money than it did, regardless of the story, but in terms of quality and originality...

- Imagine if any single planet or environment in TFA actually felt like something we hadn't seen a dozen times before. Jakku = Tatooine, Takodana = Endor, Starkiller Base = Hoth. Imagine if just one of those new planets was instead a cool, new, original type of environment. How much more exciting and interesting would that have been?

- Imagine if Poe was more than a way to simply get Finn to Jakku, and was an actual character of substance we connected with? Granted, I understand the time constraints in not being able to spend more time with him, but he's such a nothing of a character for someone propped up the way he was in the marketing.

- Similarly, imagine if Captain Phasma had even 5% more of an arc, they didn't bury such a great/interesting actress, and they actually explored the female Stormtropper angle in any way, shape, or form (even just a simple helmet removal and surprised reaction from another character could have gone a long way).

- A pretty fantastic first act, all things considered, comes to a screeching halt at Maz's cantina; when it first hits you that, yeah, they're going all-in on this New Hope redux, aren't they? Imagine if Maz wasn't such a random dud of a character, and had even an ounce of context or substance beyond a cheap Yoda fill-in. Imagine if she actually impacted the story in a tangible way other than simply owning a club above an out-of-no-where McGuffin (Luke's lightsaber)?

- Speaking of, imagine if nearly every plot point didn't feel like giant coincidence after giant coincidence... Han just happening to find Rey, who just happened to have a droid with the whereabouts to his long lost Jedi friend, and then Han takes them to see his friend Maz, who just happens to have a treasure chest with said Jedi's long lost lightsaber... I mean, I get that all of that could be attributed to "The Force," but come on. At that point, "The Force" is just a stand-in for lazy, we-don't-know-how-to-connect-these-dots screenwriting.

- Imagine if R2-D2 wasn't blatantly shoe-horned into the story at the end, and didn't just happened to have the remaining section of the all-important map for any other reason than the writers needed him to? Imagine if retrieving the remaining part of the map was, you know, an actual plot point or mission for a character or two in the movie?

- Imagine if the blasts from The First Order's grand weapon didn't actually and ridiculously travel through hyperspace - or whatever the hell was happening there - to just wipe out planets any where in the galaxy. Imagine if any of that was even remotely explained. Seriously, was the Starkiller Base planet thing mobile? What happened when it used up its nearby sun? Why did the filmmakers decide to go with such a sh*tty, overly complicated version of yet ANOTHER Death Star? Why was that aspect so sloppily handled and brushed over in general?

- Imagine if really anything having to do with The First Order was explored/set-up beyond the opening crawl? How did they rise from the ashes? Why not treat them as an emerging/creeping mystery rather than an already-well-known quantity? What if we actually got to see our heroes surprised by their existence in a big reveal early on?

- Further, imagine if Abrams & co actually had the balls to have The First Order win in the end, setting up...

- Luke Skywalker actually feeling like "the galaxy's only hope" he was supposed be in that final scene (literally, according to the script)? Instead, The First Order is seemingly all but eviscerated - the good guys won - so what, exactly, do we need Luke for at this point other than to quell Rey's curiosity? Seriously, the entire New Hope redux angle would have been absolutely brilliant had they used it to actually subvert expectations and surprise the audience in the end by having the trench run fail this time. The Resistance would then be on their heels, and Rey & Kylo's fight still could have gone down almost exactly as it did, with the same basic result (Rey discovering her calling). Tell me that ending wouldn't have been so much better, with the Resistance regrouping back at their base, knowing The First Order was now on the offense, coming for them, and so Leia sends Rey to find the only person who can help them... Luke Skywalker. Tell me that final scene wouldn't have carried so much more weight and truly left you on the edge of your seat?

Overall, The Force Awakens gets by on its breathless pace and charm, but it's a typical Abrams experience in that it gets worse after each viewing, once you're able to truly process how nonsensical and derivative it all is. Monetarily and corporately, did it set out to do what it needed to do? Absolutely. But a year and a half later it already feels like a fart in the wind, save for Rey and Kylo Ren. And Kylo is really only "cool" because he's bad and emo, not because he's really all that interesting (though he could have been, had they actually explored his history with Luke or his parents even just a bit). Again, Rey is fantastic, and there's still obviously so much more potential there (same with Kylo), but had Abrams not gone uber Mystery Box with her to the detriment of her arc - or at least better-milked/set up the mystery - her story could have been phenomenal.

It's just that all these seem like blatant, obvious mistakes/fixes, and while, again, I love most of the cast and performances, and there are definitely some fun sequences/scenes that put a smile on my face, I simply can't call it a "good" movie for every reason I've listed above. It's just so damn uninspired, but with a few obvious tweaks, could have be an all-timer. The best word to describe it, really, is "frustrating."

That said, if Rain Johnson is able to somehow capitalize on a lot of these issues and repurpose them to his advantage, it will all have been worth it. Time will tell...
Zombie Jon Snow
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GGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRR
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Zombie Jon Snow said:


for the love of God....QUIT BLOCK QUOTING THAT GARBAGE.


If you feel compelled to reply....cut out all but the relevant section,
What can I say? I'm lazy.
I Have Spoken
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Post your manifesto at a later pacific time on a board made up of posters in the central time zone, go to bed, wake up to this...
Brian Earl Spilner
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This is how I pictured TCTTS typing that rant.

boogieman
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(Just messing with you Jon Snow)
Flashdiaz
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at first, didn't read the manifesto as it sounded like another rant about how much of a retread TFA was... then I read it and found I agree with most of it.

Regardless, it's Star Wars and already better than the prequels.

Think of it this way, you're Lando in ESB.
You just made a deal with the Empire to get the Prequels.
They deliver Prequels but they're not what you were expecting at all, you feel cheated.
You bring this up to Vader and instead of him giving you a worse deal, he says 'OK, let's get back to our original deal but it may take some time. I appreciate your patience.'
Solo Tetherball Champ
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TCTTS said:

*A* shot in the arm, no doubt. "Exactly the shot in the arm" it needed? No way. Granted, it probably couldn't have made much more money than it did, regardless of the story, but in terms of quality and originality...

- Imagine if any single planet or environment in TFA actually felt like something we hadn't seen a dozen times before. Jakku = Tatooine, Takodana = Endor, Starkiller Base = Hoth. Imagine if just one of those new planets was instead a cool, new, original type of environment. How much more exciting and interesting would that have been?

- Imagine if Poe was more than a way to simply get Finn to Jakku, and was an actual character of substance we connected with? Granted, I understand the time constraints in not being able to spend more time with him, but he's such a nothing of a character for someone propped up the way he was in the marketing.

- Similarly, imagine if Captain Phasma had even 5% more of an arc, they didn't bury such a great/interesting actress, and they actually explored the female Stormtropper angle in any way, shape, or form (even just a simple helmet removal and surprised reaction from another character could have gone a long way).

- A pretty fantastic first act, all things considered, comes to a screeching halt at Maz's cantina; when it first hits you that, yeah, they're going all-in on this New Hope redux, aren't they? Imagine if Maz wasn't such a random dud of a character, and had even an ounce of context or substance beyond a cheap Yoda fill-in. Imagine if she actually impacted the story in a tangible way other than simply owning a club above an out-of-no-where McGuffin (Luke's lightsaber)?

- Speaking of, imagine if nearly every plot point didn't feel like giant coincidence after giant coincidence... Han just happening to find Rey, who just happened to have a droid with the whereabouts to his long lost Jedi friend, and then Han takes them to see his friend Maz, who just happens to have a treasure chest with said Jedi's long lost lightsaber... I mean, I get that all of that could be attributed to "The Force," but come on. At that point, "The Force" is just a stand-in for lazy, we-don't-know-how-to-connect-these-dots screenwriting.

- Imagine if R2-D2 wasn't blatantly shoe-horned into the story at the end, and didn't just happened to have the remaining section of the all-important map for any other reason than the writers needed him to? Imagine if retrieving the remaining part of the map was, you know, an actual plot point or mission for a character or two in the movie?

- Imagine if the blasts from The First Order's grand weapon didn't actually and ridiculously travel through hyperspace - or whatever the hell was happening there - to just wipe out planets any where in the galaxy. Imagine if any of that was even remotely explained. Seriously, was the Starkiller Base planet thing mobile? What happened when it used up its nearby sun? Why did the filmmakers decide to go with such a sh*tty, overly complicated version of yet ANOTHER Death Star? Why was that aspect so sloppily handled and brushed over in general?

- Imagine if really anything having to do with The First Order was explored/set-up beyond the opening crawl? How did they rise from the ashes? Why not treat them as an emerging/creeping mystery rather than an already-well-known quantity? What if we actually got to see our heroes surprised by their existence in a big reveal early on?

- Further, imagine if Abrams & co actually had the balls to have The First Order win in the end, setting up...

- Luke Skywalker actually feeling like "the galaxy's only hope" he was supposed be in that final scene (literally, according to the script)? Instead, The First Order is seemingly all but eviscerated - the good guys won - so what, exactly, do we need Luke for at this point other than to quell Rey's curiosity? Seriously, the entire New Hope redux angle would have been absolutely brilliant had they used it to actually subvert expectations and surprise the audience in the end by having the trench run fail this time. The Resistance would then be on their heels, and Rey & Kylo's fight still could have gone down almost exactly as it did, with the same basic result (Rey discovering her calling). Tell me that ending wouldn't have been so much better, with the Resistance regrouping back at their base, knowing The First Order was now on the offense, coming for them, and so Leia sends Rey to find the only person who can help them... Luke Skywalker. Tell me that final scene wouldn't have carried so much more weight and truly left you on the edge of your seat?

Overall, The Force Awakens gets by on its breathless pace and charm, but it's a typical Abrams experience in that it gets worse after each viewing, once you're able to truly process how nonsensical and derivative it all is. Monetarily and corporately, did it set out to do what it needed to do? Absolutely. But a year and a half later it already feels like a fart in the wind, save for Rey and Kylo Ren. And Kylo is really only "cool" because he's bad and emo, not because he's really all that interesting (though he could have been, had they actually explored his history with Luke or his parents even just a bit). Again, Rey is fantastic, and there's still obviously so much more potential there (same with Kylo), but had Abrams not gone uber Mystery Box with her to the detriment of her arc - or at least better-milked/set up the mystery - her story could have been phenomenal.

It's just that all these seem like blatant, obvious mistakes/fixes, and while, again, I love most of the cast and performances, and there are definitely some fun sequences/scenes that put a smile on my face, I simply can't call it a "good" movie for every reason I've listed above. It's just so damn uninspired, but with a few obvious tweaks, could have be an all-timer. The best word to describe it, really, is "frustrating."

That said, if Rain Johnson is able to somehow capitalize on a lot of these issues and repurpose them to his advantage, it will all have been worth it. Time will tell...

I can't disagree with any of that.

The first time I watched it I was blown away, probably due to a combination of hype, nostalgia overload, and yes, there were a lot of fun set pieces in there.

The second time I watched it I could barely pay attention to it and all of the flaws that you mentioned became clear, In addition to other issues:

  • those tentacle monsters in Hans ship - what was the point of that sequence? It added nothing and on second viewing subtracted from the rest of the film.
  • Why not have Poe and Finn stranded together on Tatooine, and escape together? You could still have them go to Maz after meeting Han by justification of his communications and navigation link to the resistance being lost when his X-wing was destroyed and therefore Finn knows that she is in contact with them.
  • How can Rey be awesome at everything?
    • Rewiring circuitry and repairing the hyperdrive (because scrap scavengers know how to build stuff, right)
    • Becoming a Jedi prodigy in less than 15 seconds (there was no set up for this - if Kylo unlocked something, at least show or explain it somewhere).
    • Expertly flying a ship she's never flown before. I think this sequence would have made more sense if Oscar Isaacs character was flying the falcon because he was established in the opening credits as the rebellions best pilot and Rey and Finn were on the guns. For comparisons sake, in the original Star Wars multiple characters established that Luke was a fair pilot - but he still needed help to survive the death star battle.
  • The all around silliness of sending a 75 year old man, Chewbacca, and a recent defector on an infiltration mission on a fortress world. How do they know that he isn't a plant? Even if Poe vouches for him, it is still a huge risk.

It was fun the first time around, but I don't have any real desire to watch it again.
Brian Earl Spilner
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NColoradoAG
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The last 3 pages of this thread suck more than the prequels.
Urban Ag
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Quote:

- Further, imagine if Abrams & co actually had the balls to have The First Order win in the end, setting up...

I think that would have been awesome, not even a complete victory for the First Order, a battle to a draw would have been better and not a complete re-telling on ANH.

Raid on StarKiller not successful. They get the shot off at the Resistance base planet. But the weapon was damaged and the blast is not at full power and only "grazes" the planet.

Resistance initiates a full evacuation, fearing the First Order fleet will attack and not knowing if the weapon can be fired again. The fleet is scattered across the galaxy and on board Leia's command ship, the search for Skywalker turns to desperation. Rey volunteers to find Luke, both for the Resistance and her own personal journey. At Star Killer, it's declared the weapon is inoperable and the "planet" is destabilizing. An enraged Snoke orders the base to be abandoned and a full pursuit of the Resistance, summons the knights of Ren, and for Kylo Ren to be brought to him to complete his training.

I'm just spit balling. What if's are fun, pointless, but fun.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Well, since we're doing what if's.

Brian Earl Spilner
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Well, here's a bit of ACTUAL news.

https://uk.movies.yahoo.com/star-wars-ix-looks-set-start-filming-uk-july-163809331.html
israeliag
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TCTTS said:

...
- Imagine if any single planet...
Anyone else read this in the movie trailer voice?

Quote:

- Imagine...
Flashdiaz
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next topic: Vader's Castle design:
https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2017/04/the-star-wars-show-doug-chiang-talks-darth-vaders-castle-from-rogue-one-and-more.html

interesting that Vader's situation room is basically a platform surrounded by a pit of lava just so whoever Vader is speaking to is unnerved by the fact Vader can easily flick them into it.
I Have Spoken
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So, is there any chance we get IX in May of 2019 instead of December?
TCTTS
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Absolutely. It's still scheduled for May 23, 2019. And considering the Han Solo movie still hasn't moved from May '18 either, it's looking more and more like they're shifting back to the old May release slot for good.
AgMarauder04
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TCTTS said:

Absolutely. It's still scheduled for May 23, 2019. And considering the Han Solo movie still hasn't moved from May '18 either, it's looking more and more like they're shifting back to the old May release slot for good.
That's too bad. I liked the Christmas releases.
M.C. Swag
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AgMarauder04 said:

TCTTS said:

Absolutely. It's still scheduled for May 23, 2019. And considering the Han Solo movie still hasn't moved from May '18 either, it's looking more and more like they're shifting back to the old May release slot for good.
That's too bad. I liked the Christmas releases.
Nm. I'm an idiot. Yea, that sucks.
TCTTS
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Nothing is set in stone yet, though. I'd say the litmus test will be Celebration next week. If there's any mention there of the Han Solo movie coming out May '18, I would say, at this point, they're definitely sticking with that date, and thus IX likely will as well. The latest press release - the one confirming Woody Harrelson as being in the Han Solo movie - from just a month or so ago stuck to May '18 as well, and I figured if it was moving to December they almost assuredly wouldn't have said May this late in the game. But we'll see...
Hagen95
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Saw bunch of new posts. Come to read about new stuff. Trolled.
AliasMan02
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This idea that the First Order was defeated is crazy. Or at least the idea that the Resistance won is. Starkiller is gone, but the FO wiped out the entire Republic government. The Resistance is screwed and the galaxy just became basically lawless. The FO knows exactly where the Resistance is, and the Resistance lost most of its Starfighter fleet. As far as we know they have no capital ships.

At best, everything was just thrown into chaos.
twilly
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AliasMan02 said:


At best, everything was just thrown into chaos.
Are you talking about the movie, or this thread?
TCTTS
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AliasMan02 said:

This idea that the First Order was defeated is crazy. Or at least the idea that the Resistance won is. Starkiller is gone, but the FO wiped out the entire Republic government. The Resistance is screwed and the galaxy just became basically lawless. The FO knows exactly where the Resistance is, and the Resistance lost most of its Starfighter fleet. As far as we know they have no capital ships.

At best, everything was just thrown into chaos.

In the OT, when the Death Star was destroyed, we at least understood that the Empire still ruled/infested every corner of the galaxy. All the Rebels did was defeat a fraction of them. But my point with TFA is that there's zero context provided in that regard. We have no idea how big/small/far-reaching The First Order is, and thus no idea if only a few of them survived or there's still a huge contingent out there in the galaxy. The later is probably the case, but it's just lazy story telling on the part of Abrams & co that we really have no idea at the end of that movie. And yes, the notion of everything now being thrown into chaos is actually pretty cool, and that's a good set-up going into the next movie, but it really didn't feel that way at the end of TFA. More than anything, I was left just kind of scratching my head, wondering what the implications were. And only because the filmmakers have since told us that Phasma survived, and that The First Order is still alive and well, do we have any sense of them likely coming back in full.
Saul Goodman
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I'm a TFA fan, but to be honest, I can't really argue with any of TCTTS' points.

I liken TFA to how I feel about ROTJ:

Objectively both very flawed movies, but I still can't help but love them. ROTJ was my favorite of the OT when I was a kid, and TFA rebooted my love of Star Wars as an adult. Now, if TLJ turns out to be as flawed as TFA, then I'll be much less forgiving, and hugely disappointed. No pressure Rian.

My rankings:

1. ESB
2. ANH
3a. TFA
3b. RO
4. ROTJ
.
.
5. ROTS
.
.
.
6. AOTC
.
.
.
7. TPM
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