Star Wars Discussion Thread

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Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Zombie Jon Snow said:

L
I certainly allow for those that put ESB ahead of ANH....I know I'm biased.

I often think or find that those that were old enough (like me) to see and appreciate SW (you may call it ANH, I only use that to differentiate it in things like lists) in theaters in 1977 will have a natural bias towards it.

to me:

ESB - better overall film, darker
SW (ANH) - originality and nostalgia and it's impact

And I just personally give SW (ANH) the edge for that reason. I recognize it's not "better" but it gets 1st place in my book by the narrowest of margins.

You would have to truly understand what movies and particularly Sci-Fi was before 1977 to know what it was like to have your world rocked like that. It changed EVERYTHING.
I see what you're saying regarding Star Wars and Empire, and I could actually agree with that ... except that I think that with as great as Star Wars was at the time, and remains to this day, Empire took all of that and added so much, solidified the impact of Star Wars to the point that we now argue over whether entries like The Phantom Menace are among the worst movies ever made. Simply because TPM simply is not as good as Star Wars or Empire, on probably anyone's list. Yet TPM is a far, far better movie than a whole lot of absolute rot gut garbage that has been released since the invention of the movie projector.

I am old enough to know what sci-fi was prior to May 1977. It was mostly a joke. A movie like 2001 was not really intended for a < 10-yr-old. Would anyone suggest that 2001 is junk? Probably not. So that left us youngsters with movies like the Planet of the Apes series, Godzilla, King Kong, Land of the Lost, etc. With the exception of the original POTA, none of that would register as "serious". It was seen as kiddie fare with very few, if any, redeeming values.

I was not even much of a sci-fi fan prior to Star Wars. Godzilla was awesome but that was about it. I had seen many of these kind of movies, all of the Godzilla and POTA flicks. When I saw the first previews for Star Wars, I did not want to see it. Looked stupid to me, even at age 9. I didn't see it until I had turned 10 in early June, and then only because my dad wanted to take my sister and I to a movie and that was what was showing. Like most everyone else, I was blown away.

Star Wars was a big part of my life. I remember being called "Mr. Star Wars" in 6th grade because I wouldn't shut up about it. I had a bunch of the toys, I built all of the original MPC model kits, I even had some Fisher Price thing that was a manual movie projector that came with a short reel of film containing a highlight reel of the first movie.


I am apparently one of the few willing to admit that I love every Star Wars cinematic movie (I saw the Star Wars Holiday Special and both of those Ewok movies, and they were all hot garbage). I think a movie like TPM is better than, say, Godzilla vs. Megalon. Maybe that's not much of a stretch. Yet TPM has flaws, but then again, I'd say the same of Return of the Jedi. Empire has no flaws IMO. It is a perfect movie, and it is my all-time favorite overall. Star Wars is flawless as well, and also ranks highly with me (alongside Raiders of the Lost Ark, Patton, and Alien).

Rogue One is incredible. I was actually surprised at just how awesome it was. Yes, it was a bit herky-jerky at the beginning, but once all that settled down and they focused on the actual plot of getting the Death Star plans, that movie actually challenges Empire. It falls short of that lofty goal, but still, R1 is so damn entertaining and enjoyable. I expect to watch the heck out of the BR in the next week or so.

I enjoyed TFA but I think it may suffer the same fate with me that the prequels did, in that it will not withstand multiple viewings over time. Some really awesome work in that movie, particularly with Han and Chewie and Rey, but come on, can we have a bit of originality? Why do we need X-Wings zooming down a trench yet again?

So my ranking of the series ... Empire, SW, R1, Sith, Jedi, TFA, AOTC, TPM
maca1028
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33 replies and all we are talking is rankings...again!
CJS4715
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maca1028 said:

33 replies and all we are talking is rankings...again!

Poor guy thought a trailer dropped.
NColoradoAG
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CJS4715 said:

maca1028 said:

33 replies and all we are talking is rankings...again!

Poor guy thought a trailer dropped.

40 new replies and I thought the same thing...
maca1028
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I thought at least a picture or two.
Brian Earl Spilner
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8 days till Celebration!
jbanda
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I'd put R1 over TFA. Like I said earlier in the thread, the last hour of R1 is my favorite sequence of any Star Wars film.

My favorite scene in TFA is, oddly enough, when the first order is attacking maz's castle. They've seemingly won when there a call of "we've got incoming". Any other movie would have just had the x wings blow something up and catch the first order by surprise.

Seemed a bit more "realistic" (albeit for a fantasy movie set in space).
Zombie Jon Snow
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Well said and I get that completely. just my preference I guess.

Actually funny my reaction to SW (before seeing it) was similar to yours. I really did not want to go and was basically taken against my very vocal will.

In fact oddly enough I had not really heard of it - because I was living in Seoul S. Korea at the time - when I came back to the states in July of 1977 and it had of course been out a while at that point and was breaking records, etc. In Korea, we didn't get movies even on the military base until 6+ months after their US release. And nobody over there was talking about it yet. I also hadn't really met any new kids that had seen it and that moved there because school was out for summer.

So I got to Las Vegas and we were staying at my grandparents and my parents basically forced me to go...I thought it looked dumb from the previews and from this...in the paper.....

sorry but this looks VERY cheesy....




jr15aggie
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CJS4715 said:

maca1028 said:

33 replies and all we are talking is rankings...again!

Poor guy thought a trailer dropped.

What, no trailer yet!!!!

Brian Earl Spilner
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Great post.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Zombie Jon Snow said:


Well said and I get that completely. just my preference I guess.

Actually funny my reaction to SW (before seeing it) was similar to yours. I really did not want to go and was basically taken against my very vocal will.

In fact oddly enough I had not really heard of it - because I was living in Seoul S. Korea at the time - when I came back to the states in July of 1977 and it had of course been out a while at that point and was breaking records, etc. In Korea, we didn't get movies even on the military base until 6+ months after their US release. And nobody over there was talking about it yet. I also hadn't really met any new kids that had seen it and that moved there because school was out for summer.

So I got to Las Vegas and we were staying at my grandparents and my parents basically forced me to go...I thought it looked dumb from the previews and from this...in the paper.....

sorry but this looks VERY cheesy....





Yes, very cheesy. Probably why I thought it would be stupid.

Despite that, I have that last poster hanging in my office.
AgMarauder04
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I always thought it looked like Han and Leia also had lightsabers in that poster.
Brian Earl Spilner
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What about --



Cheesy, or awesome?
AgMarauder04
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

What about --



Cheesy, or awesome?
YES
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

What about --



Cheesy, or awesome?
Star Wars had already proven itself as awesome...so this Empire poster is awesome.
Urban Ag
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I had these three on the wall from about 1983 thru when my parents remade my bedroom after I graduated from college.


edit - well that didn't work well

Zombie Jon Snow
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If you had not seen them - and based on sci-fi pre 1977 - it looked CHEESY.

Case in point. You want to get a little flavor for sci-fi just immediately prior to Star Wars. Check this out - the link below has some video snippets and previews for 1975/76 movies.

If you can even get through the previews for APE or At the The Earth's Core I'll be impressed.
Logan's Run while not "horrible" was star trek circa 1967 era style and depth really.
And FutureWorld a sequel to 1973's Westworld (now HBO series) was pretty bad as well.

Keep in mind these are the best of the best at the time - the major studio productions

http://kernelmag.dailydot.com/issue-sections/headline-story/15261/the-world-before-star-wars-sci-fi-1976/



And then this was the other major 20th Century Fox Sci-Fi flick that year the studio gave this the more coveted late year holiday release date actually. It bombed.

Damnation Alley - with big name stars Jan Michael Vincent, George Peppard, and the kid from the bad news bears movies.


CJS4715
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Lots of hints to not miss the 40 year anniversary panel.
TCTTS
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I wish TFA was good enough to warrant how cool these are...



Farmer1906
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TCTTS said:

I wish TFA was good enough to warrant how cool these are...
It is and then some.
YouBet
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So I'm literally the only guy that thinks Daisey Ridley was ok and not great?

Not trolling.
Farmer1906
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YouBet said:

So I'm literally the only guy that thinks Daisey Ridley was ok and not great?

Not trolling.
You sir, can GTFO.
TCTTS
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I think she's AMAZING. Her performance is not only the best thing about TFA, but one of the best, most relatable performances in the entire franchise, period. And that's despite the supporting material, or lack there of. Really hoping TLJ is the movie her character deserves.
TCTTS
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TFA is definitely a fun movie with a lot of heart. I just don't think it's a very good one...
Farmer1906
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TCTTS said:

TFA is definitely a fun movie with a lot of heart. I just don't think it's a very good one...
Power Rangers is "fun". TFA is a good to great flick.
CJS4715
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Are we doing this again?
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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CJS4715 said:

Are we doing this again?
Sure. Why not?
Zombie Jon Snow
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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

CJS4715 said:

Are we doing this again?
Sure. Why not?
yeah....you got anything better to do....?

it's what 8+ months until TLJ....and nothing about to be released on video...not expecting any trailers imminently....


Urban Ag
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TCTTS said:

TFA is definitely a fun movie with a lot of heart. I just don't think it's a very good one...
yup

I got over my denial phase. And this is the case.

Fun movie. Felt like "Star Wars"

not a very good movie.

pains me to say

fig96
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Urban Ag said:

TCTTS said:

TFA is definitely a fun movie with a lot of heart. I just don't think it's a very good one...
yup

I got over my denial phase. And this is the case.

Fun movie. Felt like "Star Wars"

not a very good movie.

pains me to say


Suicide Squad was not a very good movie. Warcraft was not a very good movie. The new TMNT was not a very good movie.

TFA wasn't great, but it was good and exactly the shot in the arm and return to the classic feel that the series needed.
TCTTS
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*A* shot in the arm, no doubt. "Exactly the shot in the arm" it needed? No way. Granted, it probably couldn't have made much more money than it did, regardless of the story, but in terms of quality and originality...

- Imagine if any single planet or environment in TFA actually felt like something we hadn't seen a dozen times before. Jakku = Tatooine, Takodana = Endor, Starkiller Base = Hoth. Imagine if just one of those new planets was instead a cool, new, original type of environment. How much more exciting and interesting would that have been?

- Imagine if Poe was more than a way to simply get Finn to Jakku, and was an actual character of substance we connected with? Granted, I understand the time constraints in not being able to spend more time with him, but he's such a nothing of a character for someone propped up the way he was in the marketing.

- Similarly, imagine if Captain Phasma had even 5% more of an arc, they didn't bury such a great/interesting actress, and they actually explored the female Stormtropper angle in any way, shape, or form (even just a simple helmet removal and surprised reaction from another character could have gone a long way).

- A pretty fantastic first act, all things considered, comes to a screeching halt at Maz's cantina; when it first hits you that, yeah, they're going all-in on this New Hope redux, aren't they? Imagine if Maz wasn't such a random dud of a character, and had even an ounce of context or substance beyond a cheap Yoda fill-in. Imagine if she actually impacted the story in a tangible way other than simply owning a club above an out-of-no-where McGuffin (Luke's lightsaber)?

- Speaking of, imagine if nearly every plot point didn't feel like giant coincidence after giant coincidence... Han just happening to find Rey, who just happened to have a droid with the whereabouts to his long lost Jedi friend, and then Han takes them to see his friend Maz, who just happens to have a treasure chest with said Jedi's long lost lightsaber... I mean, I get that all of that could be attributed to "The Force," but come on. At that point, "The Force" is just a stand-in for lazy, we-don't-know-how-to-connect-these-dots screenwriting.

- Imagine if R2-D2 wasn't blatantly shoe-horned into the story at the end, and didn't just happened to have the remaining section of the all-important map for any other reason than the writers needed him to? Imagine if retrieving the remaining part of the map was, you know, an actual plot point or mission for a character or two in the movie?

- Imagine if the blasts from The First Order's grand weapon didn't actually and ridiculously travel through hyperspace - or whatever the hell was happening there - to just wipe out planets any where in the galaxy. Imagine if any of that was even remotely explained. Seriously, was the Starkiller Base planet thing mobile? What happened when it used up its nearby sun? Why did the filmmakers decide to go with such a sh*tty, overly complicated version of yet ANOTHER Death Star? Why was that aspect so sloppily handled and brushed over in general?

- Imagine if really anything having to do with The First Order was explored/set-up beyond the opening crawl? How did they rise from the ashes? Why not treat them as an emerging/creeping mystery rather than an already-well-known quantity? What if we actually got to see our heroes surprised by their existence in a big reveal early on?

- Further, imagine if Abrams & co actually had the balls to have The First Order win in the end, setting up...

- Luke Skywalker actually feeling like "the galaxy's only hope" he was supposed be in that final scene (literally, according to the script)? Instead, The First Order is seemingly all but eviscerated - the good guys won - so what, exactly, do we need Luke for at this point other than to quell Rey's curiosity? Seriously, the entire New Hope redux angle would have been absolutely brilliant had they used it to actually subvert expectations and surprise the audience in the end by having the trench run fail this time. The Resistance would then be on their heels, and Rey & Kylo's fight still could have gone down almost exactly as it did, with the same basic result (Rey discovering her calling). Tell me that ending wouldn't have been so much better, with the Resistance regrouping back at their base, knowing The First Order was now on the offense, coming for them, and so Leia sends Rey to find the only person who can help them... Luke Skywalker. Tell me that final scene wouldn't have carried so much more weight and truly left you on the edge of your seat?

Overall, The Force Awakens gets by on its breathless pace and charm, but it's a typical Abrams experience in that it gets worse after each viewing, once you're able to truly process how nonsensical and derivative it all is. Monetarily and corporately, did it set out to do what it needed to do? Absolutely. But a year and a half later it already feels like a fart in the wind, save for Rey and Kylo Ren. And Kylo is really only "cool" because he's bad and emo, not because he's really all that interesting (though he could have been, had they actually explored his history with Luke or his parents even just a bit). Again, Rey is fantastic, and there's still obviously so much more potential there (same with Kylo), but had Abrams not gone uber Mystery Box with her to the detriment of her arc - or at least better-milked/set up the mystery - her story could have been phenomenal.

It's just that all these seem like blatant, obvious mistakes/fixes, and while, again, I love most of the cast and performances, and there are definitely some fun sequences/scenes that put a smile on my face, I simply can't call it a "good" movie for every reason I've listed above. It's just so damn uninspired, but with a few obvious tweaks, could have be an all-timer. The best word to describe it, really, is "frustrating."

That said, if Rain Johnson is able to somehow capitalize on a lot of these issues and repurpose them to his advantage, it will all have been worth it. Time will tell...
Ag Since 83
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I officially hate this thread
CJS4715
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Ag Since 83 said:

I officially hate this thread


Give it a week
Mac94
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Quote:

I even had some Fisher Price thing that was a manual movie projector that came with a short reel of film containing a highlight reel of the first movie.

Found three of those red cartridges in a box of old stuff a few years back, lol. Still have em put away, lol.
Sex Panther
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TCTTS said:

*A* shot in the arm, no doubt. "Exactly the shot in the arm" it needed? No way. Granted, it probably couldn't have made much more money than it did, regardless of the story, but in terms of quality and originality...

- Imagine if any single planet or environment in TFA actually felt like something we hadn't seen a dozen times before. Jakku = Tatooine, Takodana = Endor, Starkiller Base = Hoth. Imagine if just one of those new planets was instead a cool, new, original type of environment. How much more exciting and interesting would that have been?

- Imagine if Poe was more than a way to simply get Finn to Jakku, and was an actual character of substance we connected with? Granted, I understand the time constraints in not being able to spend more time with him, but he's such a nothing of a character for someone propped up the way he was in the marketing.

- Similarly, imagine if Captain Phasma had even 5% more of an arc, they didn't bury such a great/interesting actress, and they actually explored the female Stormtropper angle in any way, shape, or form (even just a simple helmet removal and surprised reaction from another character could have gone a long way).

- A pretty fantastic first act, all things considered, comes to a screeching halt at Maz's cantina; when it first hits you that, yeah, they're going all-in on this New Hope redux, aren't they? Imagine if Maz wasn't such a random dud of a character, and had even an ounce of context or substance beyond a cheap Yoda fill-in. Imagine if she actually impacted the story in a tangible way other than simply owning a club above an out-of-no-where McGuffin (Luke's lightsaber)?

- Speaking of, imagine if nearly every plot point didn't feel like giant coincidence after giant coincidence... Han just happening to find Rey, who just happened to have a droid with the whereabouts to his long lost Jedi friend, and then Han takes them to see his friend Maz, who just happens to have a treasure chest with said Jedi's long lost lightsaber... I mean, I get that all of that could be attributed to "The Force," but come on. At that point, "The Force" is just a stand-in for lazy, we-don't-know-how-to-connect-these-dots screenwriting.

- Imagine if R2-D2 wasn't blatantly shoe-horned into the story at the end, and didn't just happened to have the remaining section of the all-important map for any other reason than the writers needed him to? Imagine if retrieving the remaining part of the map was, you know, an actual plot point or mission for a character or two in the movie?

- Imagine if the blasts from The First Order's grand weapon didn't actually and ridiculously travel through hyperspace - or whatever the hell was happening there - to just wipe out planets any where in the galaxy. Imagine if any of that was even remotely explained. Seriously, was the Starkiller Base planet thing mobile? What happened when it used up its nearby sun? Why did the filmmakers decide to go with such a sh*tty, overly complicated version of yet ANOTHER Death Star? Why was that aspect so sloppily handled and brushed over in general?

- Imagine if really anything having to do with The First Order was explored/set-up beyond the opening crawl? How did they rise from the ashes? Why not treat them as an emerging/creeping mystery rather than an already-well-known quantity? What if we actually got to see our heroes surprised by their existence in a big reveal early on?

- Further, imagine if Abrams & co actually had the balls to have The First Order win in the end, setting up...

- Luke Skywalker actually feeling like "the galaxy's only hope" he was supposed be in that final scene (literally, according to the script)? Instead, The First Order is seemingly all but eviscerated - the good guys won - so what, exactly, do we need Luke for at this point other than to quell Rey's curiosity? Seriously, the entire New Hope redux angle would have been absolutely brilliant had they used it to actually subvert expectations and surprise the audience in the end by having the trench run fail this time. The Resistance would then be on their heels, and Rey & Kylo's fight still could have gone down almost exactly as it did, with the same basic result (Rey discovering her calling). Tell me that ending wouldn't have been so much better, with the Resistance regrouping back at their base, knowing The First Order was now on the offense, coming for them, and so Leia sends Rey to find the only person who can help them... Luke Skywalker. Tell me that final scene wouldn't have carried so much more weight and truly left you on the edge of your seat?

Overall, The Force Awakens gets by on its breathless pace and charm, but it's a typical Abrams experience in that it gets worse after each viewing, once you're able to truly process how nonsensical and derivative it all is. Monetarily and corporately, did it set out to do what it needed to do? Absolutely. But a year and a half later it already feels like a fart in the wind, save for Rey and Kylo Ren. And Kylo is really only "cool" because he's bad and emo, not because he's really all that interesting (though he could have been, had they actually explored his history with Luke or his parents even just a bit). Again, Rey is fantastic, and there's still obviously so much more potential there (same with Kylo), but had Abrams not gone uber Mystery Box with her to the detriment of her arc - or at least better-milked/set up the mystery - her story could have been phenomenal.

It's just that all these seem like blatant, obvious mistakes/fixes, and while, again, I love most of the cast and performances, and there are definitely some fun sequences/scenes that put a smile on my face, I simply can't call it a "good" movie for every reason I've listed above. It's just so damn uninspired, but with a few obvious tweaks, could have be an all-timer. The best word to describe it, really, is "frustrating."

That said, if Rain Johnson is able to somehow capitalize on a lot of these issues and repurpose them to his advantage, it will all have been worth it. Time will tell...



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