Star Wars Discussion Thread

Brian Earl Spilner
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AgMarauder04 said:

TCTTS said:

Absolutely. It's still scheduled for May 23, 2019. And considering the Han Solo movie still hasn't moved from May '18 either, it's looking more and more like they're shifting back to the old May release slot for good.
That's too bad. I liked the Christmas releases.
I did a complete turnaround, ironically. I was sure they'd move TFA to May and stick with the classic SW spring release. (And wanted them to do so.) But now I'm fully on board with the Christmas releases.

TC and I flip-flopped completely on that, it seems like.
Farmer1906
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AgMarauder04 said:

TCTTS said:

Absolutely. It's still scheduled for May 23, 2019. And considering the Han Solo movie still hasn't moved from May '18 either, it's looking more and more like they're shifting back to the old May release slot for good.
That's too bad. I liked the Christmas releases.

Me too.
TCTTS
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Yeah, I was all for the Christmas releases in theory, but honestly haven't enjoyed them as much as I thought I would. And it's purely for personal reasons, as I'm almost always traveling that weekend in December because of our work schedule, and it's also a way busier time of year. It feels like I've had to perfectly squeeze the past two movies in, otherwise I'd have to see them in a crappy theater in my hometown, with a bunch of family who has next to no interest.

That, and I just straight up miss the May release more than I anticipated. I miss watching Star Wars in the summer, in an air conditioned theater out of the heat, right before Memorial Day Weekend, and it feeling more like an event in the sense that it's not Oscar season and there aren't all these other great movies out at the same time. It's just kind of overwhelming otherwise.

Though, I definitely get the love in general for Star Wars at Christmas now. My family loves going to the movies at the holidays, but they just aren't into these new SW movies at all, so I don't get that big, family, event movie feel with SW like I'd otherwise want. So having SW return to May definitely works for me.
M.C. Swag
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I love the December releases. Been great seeing Star Wars with my Dad. Just like the old days.
CJS4715
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SW (ANH) had the benefit of being made with no assurance that a sequel would follow. TFA was not born into the same world, so it might not be worth judging where it left you until you consumed the whole story. I do wonder how the other films will impact how it is viewed.
DannyDuberstein
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M.C. Swag said:

I love the December releases. Been great seeing Star Wars with my Dad. Just like the old days.
Agree. For both movies, we went as an extended family with my family, my parents, and my sister and her family who were in town for the holidays. It was like this great, nostalgic throwback activity for us to do together. It's not always easy to find stuff that all of us will enjoy, given the wide range in ages (10 to 75) and interests. But this one is.
TCTTS
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That excuse always bothers me. Certain elements should be explained/addressed within a single movie. Do I need to know who Rey's parents are in the very first movie? No. Can I wait to get some potential Luke/Kylo Ren background in TLJ? Sure. But there's a difference between purposely leaving certain threads dangling to the next movie to keep the audience engaged - and bad story telling. Additional context of The First Order is absolutely something that should have been addressed in TFA, along with a few of these other issues.

There's this growing sense from audiences and bad filmmakers alike that franchise story telling is a valid excuse to just punt certain things to the next movie. A movie needs to be it's own, complete thing, while skillfully setting up a sequel - not a giant teaser for the next movie, which is what TFA ultimately feels like. Nearly every character's arc feels like it's just set-up for their real arc to come. It's the old adage TexAgs knows all to well - "NEXT season is our season. That's when we'll finally have all the right tools and it's all going to come together." And yet, fans have being saying that for years and years now, to the point of insanity, and these franchises are starting to feel the same way. "The NEXT movie is when they'll really get into that and it'll all come together" - when, in reality, it hardly ever does.
Cstrickland05
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What is the point of the Resistance? Why can't the Republic fight their own battles? That's what I want to know.
TCTTS
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There was some lame excuse given in one of the books I think about how the Republic was funding the Resistance or something to fight The First Order, so the Republic wasn't getting their hands dirty. That may not be entirely correct, but I remember thinking it made no sense (and, granted, I didn't read the actual book, just a report online - maybe even in this thread). All I needed was like a minute of that whole dynamic to be explained/addressed a bit more. Either that, or actually just have the Republic in the role of the Resistance, with Leia as a general. It's like they added this extra layer for no real reason.
Brian Earl Spilner
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The Republic didn't see the FO as that big of a threat.
Brian Earl Spilner
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I do wish there had been more time (or ANY, really) dedicated to showing how the New Republic functioned. I didn't need any Senate scenes, but SOMETHING on the Capital before it was blown up.
CJS4715
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I also assume the Republic is splintered with distrust and may have an inkling of fear of the industrial military complex. I'm not a SW book reader, so someone correct me if my assumption is way off base.
Brian Earl Spilner
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This is the biggest issue with the Marvel universe. IMO.
CJS4715
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

II didn't need any Senate scenes

Ag Since 83
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Hux does say in the movie the Republic supports the Resistance, that's why he wants to take them out.

The info from the books makes it a little clearer that after peace was settled post-Jakku, some in the Republic were afraid of a strong centralized military so they wanted to weaken their structure. Others still saw the Imperial remnants as a threat and eventually they would help fund the Resistance as they could. But it comes across more like a secret side project of some Senators

On that end, I finally finished Empire's End and found the Battle of Jakku disappointing (the Contingency was, well, kind of weird; but I could see Palpatine doing that). Still, Thrawn book next week! (Plus Timothy Zahn is going to Celebration!)
Farmer1906
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Basically the government was useless when the first order starts **** so Leia broke off and formed a group to deal with them.
TCTTS
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I can get behind that, and that actually makes sense, but that feeling never came across in the movie.
Farmer1906
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TCTTS said:

I can get behind that, and that actually makes sense, but that feeling never came across in the movie.
100% agree.

You have no damn clue in the movie.

It's from Bloodline, which is my favorite SW novel so far. Even if you're not into the new EU I would recommend it.
Cstrickland05
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TCTTS said:

I can get behind that, and that actually makes sense, but that feeling never came across in the movie.


Agreed. I'm fine with that explanation, the problem was they didn't give it. It just would have taken a line or two to fill us in.
CJS4715
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All good points above. It just takes a scene similar to the conference on the death star in ANH to help contextualize the scope of what is taking place in the galaxy. That is obviously missing in TFA - will 100% agree with that.
Flashdiaz
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Brian Earl Spilner said:


Mark Hamill voices Han Solo!
CJS4715
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And I don't disagree with all the points you raise TCTTS, but I feel differently about the overall film (clearly). I do, however, think TFA's problems make things complicated for TLJ, because I feel like the # of items that need to be covered are quite large. I hope Rian Johnson and the folks at Lucas were able to define the boundaries of the story and keep it under control.
TCTTS
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I don't know exactly where the movie starts in this scenario, but as for the politics of it all, this should have been the basic set up...

- No evidence or inkling of The First Order when the movie begins. Yes, the Republic is still trying to find its footing, but there's no Empire-like faction out there that anyone knows of.

- Maybe an entire, far-off planet is then destroyed - or there's some other mysterious incident - that alerts Leia to some kind of possible Empire-like resurgence, or maybe even the frightening possibility of a new, Death Star-like weapon. The point is, there's a bit of evidence, it's a mystery, and Leia is the only one who's starting to take the rumors seriously.

- Having "a bad feeling about this" after further evidence mounts, Leia forms a Resistance of sorts to get to the bottom of the mystery / combat whatever it is that's out there.

- Then, in some grand way, The First Order finally makes itself known to the Republic, like a giant, well-oiled terrorists group coming out of the woodwork. This way, we get to discover The First Order in the same way the characters do, and the Republic's/Resistance's questions are the same as the audience's questions. In other words, it's ok to be in the dark because the good guys are as well.

- From there, Snoke makes more sense in the context presented as well. He can be a mystery because NO ONE knows who is or where he came from.

- The kicker would then be Han and Leia actually discovering that their son - who has been missing for years - is a central figure of The First Order, which is FAR more interesting than just hearing them kind of talk about it briefly after the fact.

Overall, I just hate movies like this where the characters already know everything, and a lot of the dialogue is simply expositional / just trying to catch the audience up to speed. Why not have the characters discover all of this stuff as the audience does? It's so much more engaging that way.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Damn it. This all sounds awesome.

You should try screenwriting.
israeliag
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I went back to TFA crawl thinking it had had some info around the politics of this all. It does explain that the FO is the remnants of the empire and the Resistance is supported by the Republic, but prob could have been renamed since it always seemed as though the FO was the one resisting.

Quote:

Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed.
With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE. She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy.
Leia has sent her most daring pilot on a secret mission to Jakku, where an old ally has discovered a clue to Luke's whereabouts
I'm sure this has been discussed, but I don't recall it... it explicitly calls out Luke as "the last jedi" (i added the bold above).
Ag Since 83
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Or you take two naive, inexperienced main characters, throw them off the deep end and let them learn from their circumstances and more knowledgeable characters.

That movie wasn't about Han and Leia learning their son was evil. It was about Finn and Rey learning how the galaxy works and how they can play a part in it.
TCTTS
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Ha, thanks. I mean, in typing all that I get how certain decisions were made. It's a lot of set up. But on the other hand, there's so much that could have been cut/amended to accommodate - that whole stupid scene with Han, Rey, Finn and the pirates, Finn and Poe should have basically been one character, etc. Leia essentially should have been the Jor-El of the movie, only expanded - she senses something coming that no one else is taking seriously. Build on that thread and finally have it intersect with Han, Rey, and Finn/Poe in a much more interesting/integral way, and it's such a better movie.
TCTTS
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Ag Since 83 said:

Or you take two naive, inexperienced main characters, throw them off the deep end and let them learn from their circumstances and more knowledgeable characters.

That movie wasn't about Han and Leia learning their son was evil. It was about Finn and Rey learning how the galaxy works and how they can play a part in it.
I get where you're coming from, but I truly think the movie could have easily been both. You can have Rey and whoever else discovering this whole world WHILE Leia & co discover The First Order.
Ag Since 83
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Oh, I agree with that. TFA is definitely not the movie I would have made. At the very least they could have rewritten the crawl to give a little more context.

But it's a fun but flawed movie that introduced cool characters we want to learn more about.

For better or worse, SW is an episodic serial. They are going to drop you into the middle of the story.
Urban Ag
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CJS4715 said:

SW (ANH) had the benefit of being made with no assurance that a sequel would follow. TFA was not born into the same world, so it might not be worth judging where it left you until you consumed the whole story. I do wonder how the other films will impact how it is viewed.
I was having a similar thought and this is what actually bugs me. At the time they filmed ANH, Lucas could not have known for certain a sequel would get the green light. No one did. So the perfect ending, good guys win against incredible odds, hand out the medals, everyone cheers, is fine. JJ and co didn't have to do that. It didn't require the same perfect ending, fully knowing they have two more films to capture the whole story. That's why it just seems lazy and uninspired to me. They had the most talented people at their disposal and the backing of the mouse, and delivered A New Hope v2.
CJS4715
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Ag Since 83 said:

For better or worse, SW is an episodic serial. They are going to drop you into the middle of the story.


Yea, it seems more likely given what we know about this universe that the fighting really never stopped... that the FO is perhaps even part of the Empire in some way. I mean, how was Finn taken from his family and brought up in the First Order? The timeline intersects with the Empire or pretty damn close, right? There is a thread there.
jabberwalkie09
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TCTTS said:

Ag Since 83 said:

Or you take two naive, inexperienced main characters, throw them off the deep end and let them learn from their circumstances and more knowledgeable characters.

That movie wasn't about Han and Leia learning their son was evil. It was about Finn and Rey learning how the galaxy works and how they can play a part in it.
I get where you're coming from, but I truly think the movie could have easily been both.
Eh, but to bring Finn and Rey up to speed you would have to have these moments where the movie would come to a screeching halt by an info-dump moment. Based on what I have read in the past, info-dumps are generally knocked on by reviewers and knowledgeable community both.

Personally, I'd rather experience things through Finn and Rey's perspectives rather than Han or Leia filling us in on everything.
AliasMan02
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Much of this coulda woulda shoulda ignores the structural narrative decision made at the outset: this movie needs to mirror ANH to suck in the audience.

Also, part of the reason we got to develop the new heroes like we did is because the movie required no setup. You had your ANH cheat sheet already. They didn't have to explain to the audience who the First Order or Resistance were, because the audience already understands the Empire and Rebellion.

It's a shortcut, for sure. Most on this thread didn't need it. But Disney was scared as hell of this thing falling flat and not resonating, so they brought in JJ to do his Spielberg thing and capture the wonder and make us love the Star Wars experience again. Make us buy in on the new heroes. It worked.

If you're worried that it will continue in this fashion, you shouldn't. I'm not. Rogue One proves that Lucasfilm has found its legs and is willing to run.
Ag Since 83
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I just checked and the tracking says my Rogue One BluRay was delivered this morning
Brian Earl Spilner
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Gotta wait for tomorrow for mine.
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