oh. well there's a difference between spoiling an actual event and what most people are doing by accident. either way i'll stick to discussion on the spoiler thread, since there's really nothing for me to talk about if i don't bring the books in

Why were they killing all the babies and randon dudes? Torturing to find info on the King's *******s..... or because they were/could've been the Kings *******s

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I must have missed the part last season in the first 9 episodes where it became so clear that there would be dragons in ep. 10

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You must have missed the entire first season then. I was one of the really good "guessers" from last seasons non-spoilers thread, and I did not start reading the series until after season 1 ended. The entrance of the supposed "petrified" eggs, the numerous close-ups the eggs received, the constant reminders that the Targaryeans once had real dragons. Maybe I pay really close attention to detail, but I thought it was incredibly obvious. I won't be posting on this thread other than this post because I don't need to speculate anymore, but I was getting tired of people claiming I was passing along spoilers as my own predictions....and I don't think anyone predicted that they would see dragons in ep. 10, unless there was episode preview that alluded to it (I can't recall).

[This message has been edited by Dr. Ag 2015 (edited 4/3/2012 12:15a).]

Clearly there cant be mythical creatures in Ep 10...there was only direwolves since ep1, a three-eyed crow in ep3,5 & 9, "the dead" dancing in ep9.

Dragons in ep 10? ridiculous

DP

[This message has been edited by Koala Infestation (edited 4/3/2012 8:08a).]

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Why were they killing all the babies and randon dudes? Torturing to find info on the King's *******s..... or because they were/could've been the Kings *******s

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Just to be vindictive ****heads. None of the *******s could have been legitimized (well, except by order of the king). Cersei had all the illegitimate kids killed because she can and was sending a message to Littlefinger and anyone else who questions Joffrey's claim to throne: Joff is the one true king and all of Robert's other offspring is wormfood.

Simple...they were killing Robert's *******s. If you listen, you hear the mother at the brothel call the baby "Barra" (a name based on Baratheon, Robert's House name) and you see them torturing the master blacksmith for hte whereabouts of Gendry, who we know from Season 1 to be one of Robert's *******s. As for why...Cersei didn't want anyone else looking at Robert's *******s and wondering why, of all the kids he had with all the different women, only his "trueborn" kids had blonde hair and looked exactly like Lannisters. She didn't want anyone else coming to the same (correct) conclusion that Ned Stark and Jon Arryn had come to, and she didn't wnat any evidence lying about to support the truth in Stannis' letter.

[This message has been edited by maverick2076 (edited 4/3/2012 8:11a).]

Hopefully this isn't a spoiler but Martin has always said that the magic gradually increases as the series moves on though it never becomes the dominant story over the characters, for instance Bran's wolf dreams in Sunday's episode and the realization the Direwolves are not regular wolves. It is a fantasy series though at times the drama is so good you almost forget that and it feels like historical fiction. Part of what makes the story so great is you get so caught up in it you forget the fantasy and then occasionally get hit over the head with it. Also most of the characters in the story don't believe in magic any more than you or I do.

As for the dragons specifically the signs were all there but part of the brilliance of the writing is that even though it was obvious to some with the foreshadowing that it was a total shock to others (including me the first time I read it). Martin does a ton of foreshadowing of events but the tough thing is understanding the foreshadowing. For instance you don't think of the symbolism of the Direwolf (Ned Stark) being killed by a Stag (Robert Baratheon) when it happens because all the emphasis is on the wolf pups and their symbolism to the Stark children. There is simply no way to predict what will happen in this story, you may get a lucky guess here and there but it is certainly the most complex and unpredictable plot I have ever seen.

BTW, the dragons look cooler on screen than I thought they would.

The baby in the brothel was introduced last year. She was the "last person John Arryn saw before he died" according to Littlefinger. Ned Stark was talking to the mother before he went outside and got attacked by Jaime.

Unless you guys know for sure it was Cersei, I think it was Joffery's sick little mind having all the kids killed. He had just gotten pissed at his Mom in the throne room about all of the bas*****. I took it as him ordering it done.

I've seen season 1 about three times now and the eggs were very obvious and important... The possibility of dragons was always there for sure, but I thought I remembered people last year speaking as if they were inevitable... (also in season 1, to a non-reader, direwolves are just big wolves and a three eyed crow was in a dream sequence... not out of the realm of reality)

I might be wrong, it was 10 months ago... I was just using that as an example where a reader MAY have made a "prediction" in order to sound like a great cinematic interpreter or something like that

can't we all just get along? None of my friends watch the show and I need some discussion...

93, there were tons of other symbolism like that as well. Think about when Tywin Lannister was skinning the deer while talking with Jaime (I think?). Lion and Stag??

Regarding the Dragons tidbit, there is no way in hell you could know anything about this show and NOT expect dragons at some point. Besides all of the scenes alluding to them (The eggs, the fires, targeryans having dragons on the past), there was also the book released before the season started named "A Dance with Dragons". Now, I know this is a thread for people who want to claim the books don't exist, but I'm SURE you knew the name of the 5th book and had assumed Dragons would come into play at some point. Now, did you know it would be season 1 and not season 2/3/4/5? No. But if that spoiled some HUGE revelation for you that ruined the show for you, then I really feel sorry for your fragile girlish feelings.

To be honest, for me the dragons were not the coolest thing about that last episode. I thought the absolute coolest part was the Northern Lord proclaiming Robb King in the North. I mean, how freaking awesome for a Stark to finally getting some recognition for being an honorable badass. I wanted to shout "WOLVERINES!!!!!!" when that scene came up!

[This message has been edited by SuperAg05 (edited 4/3/2012 8:28a).]

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Bran's wolf dreams in Sunday's episode and the realization the Direwolves are not regular wolves

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This is 100% incorrect.
I will provide explanation if you'd like it, but I'll sum it up and say that they are only "not regular wolves" because they are a different animal. Like the difference between a horse (direwolf) and a donkey(regular wolf).

Size, speed, strength, really only physical attributes are what separates the two.

The point is that Direwolves are fictional characters as are dragons. Are they more similar to real wolves and more realistic? Sure, that doesn't change the fact that they are "magical" because they do not exist in our world. There are varying degrees of magic from the White Walkers to simply the fact that Seasons in Westeros are different than here.

The greater point though is that magic never overtakes the story, it is just part of it and that the amount of magic introduced is gradual but growing.

As for foreshadowing, it is all over the place in the books and somewhat in the show. I'll leave it at that though so as not to get into spoilers, most of the foreshadowing happens and then you don't have a chance to think about it until you piece it together later. FWIW, that is one of the best reasons to read the books. You can go straight through and be completely caught up in the story. Watching the show with one episode a week and then a year between seasons you have a lot of time to think about the events and analyze them as they happen. When you read you simply don't have time for it and at times actually start to get a little bored at lengthy details until you realize later how important those details were.

Direwolves are real...but extinct.

What Hobo said.

Who here likes Jer Sorah, Dany's "protector" guy? I think that dude's the tits and look forward to any time he's on screen. Also very stoked about Arya's storyline as well. So many plotlines, so much to be unfurled...I freaking love this show.

The actor who plays Ser Jorah also plays Sir Richard Carlisle on Downton Abbey.


SPOILER WARNING FOR DOWNTON ABBEY


Unfortunately, there are no dragons on Downton Abbey.


ALL CLEAR

Its Ser Jorah that is Dany's protector, Ser Jorah Mormont. (Aerys calls him 'Mormont' all the time so that aint a spoiler)

If you havent made the connection yet, who is the commander of the Night's Watch? Lord Commander Mormont (Jeor), his father.

Jorah is in exile as explained in season 1, but he left his sword (his father's sword) with his father. Who did the Lord Commander give that sword to? If only they spent 2 whole scenes dedicated to that sword...

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Direwolves are real...but extinct.

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Correct. I believe aurochs are also mentioned somewhere in GoT. Also real but extinct.

What's an auroch? And when were Direwolves supposed to exist?

An auroch is a type of cow. According to Wikipedia, the last one died in 1627.

The dire wolf dates back to the Pleistocene era, which means they became extinct about 10,000 years ago. Interestingly, they existed alongside the gray wolf but are not thought to look like gray wolves.

***Season 1 spoilers, but you should have already seen that season***

You could piece a lot of things together from season 1 if you paid attention. In the first episode, Dany gets into water which her servant warns is far too hot. Pretty insignificant, until the scene where she is holding a dragon egg over a fire in her tent. A servant fears she will burn her hands and takes the egg from her, burning her own hands. Now you seem to notice she is not negatively affected by heat. She also must have been holding them over the fire for some reason, and I said out loud to my wife, "she is trying to hatch them." Her brother is killed by having melted gold poured over his head and she comments that he can not be a dragon because fire can not kill a dragon. At the end of episode 10 when she places the eggs by Drogo, and then walks in to the pyre, it was more than obvious to me that a) she would not be harmed, and b) dragons would hatch. Again, this is from a non-reader.

^ agreed with the above, I saw the dragons coming from a long way off as a non-reader too.

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To be honest, for me the dragons were not the coolest thing about that last episode. I thought the absolute coolest part was the Northern Lord proclaiming Robb King in the North. I mean, how freaking awesome for a Stark to finally getting some recognition for being an honorable badass. I wanted to shout "WOLVERINES!!!!!!" when that scene came up!

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I know. I totally thought they should have ended the episode with that scene. It would have been such an amazing note to end on, and I was already pumped up for the civil war. There were actually several scenes in that episode that I thought would have provided better endings than the one they chose (I understand why they chose that one, the big reveal and all), but it just wasn't that impressive in comparison to the quality of the other scenes in that episode.

Alright, so there are no direwolves today. There are lots of other animals in the story that are bordering from extinct to completely fictional but that was my point in terms of "magic" as a very loose term. I won't go into it any further so as not to be a spoiler.

The point is that there are things that exist and happen in ASOIF/GoT that don't happen in our world and are thus "magic". More importantly though they don't dominate the story and take away from the human drama which is what makes it so great. There are probably a few folks thought hat have a very low tolerance for magic that may be turned off though at some point but hopefully the story has them gripped enough not to. One thing I like is that you have some people that completely debunk all magic (such as Tyrion and other Lannisters) while you have others that are big believers in it (such as Osha or Melisandre).

I too predicted the dragons. I don't think I typed it on the season forum...but it only made sense for all of the reasons listed above. Especially when she put them in the fire at the end.

As far as her being unharmed by heat/fire, that was made obvious at least 3 times prior to the final scene of last season.

The shock from the dragons being there was not from the lack of foreshadowing but from the fact that when I read the book at least I still wasn't sure that dragons EVER really existed. The people of westros believe in a lot of superstitions, some turn out to be real (the white walkers) and some just tales (like the stuff old nan tells bran).

Magic was the same way in the first season, you hear about it a lot but you aren't sure if its just tricks of if there is actual magic in the world. Watching the show would have helped a lot since when Arya saw the dragon skulls you knew it came from an actual dragon. In the book when i read it she describes it as a dragon skull but i didn't know if she just thought that or it had just been a skull of a really big animal.

As a non-reader, I was skeptical about the dragon stories until she wasn't burned by the hot egg, then I realized it was likely legit and wasn't surprised when she eventually hatched them.

I guess that's the difference in the show and the books. (haven't read the books). In episode one, scene one last season, we see a creature with glowing blue eyes kill two men from the Night's Watch. It was pretty obvious from that point on, there was going to be some supernatural/magical element to the show. So nothing really surprised me from that point forward. This was reinforced by the Dragon Eggs, wolves connecting with their masters telepathically (or close to it), non burning of the Khaleesi, dragon skulls in the dungeons, dead wildlings coming back to life in the Lord Commanders suite, etc.

Aurochs was Grenn's nickname in the books.

St_Jason - I thought the first book pretty clearly told you that the Dragons were once real.

****Since this is from the first book and season one is over this shouldn't be a spoiler****

The book said that the Targaryans used to have the Dragon Skulls decorating the Throne Room. Then, after Robert won the Throne he removed the Dragon skulls, and put them down in one of the dungeons. So when Arya finds them in the book, even though Arya doesn't know for sure what they are we as readers have a good idea.

Just believe what Hodor's girlfriend says... She seems to know what she's talking about.

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even though Arya doesn't know for sure what they are we as viewers have a good idea.

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fify

monk41 - they say they were real a few times in the show and first book its just that they say its been hundreds of years so its hard to say if they were really real or not. No one alive has ever actually seen one so i didn't know if its just fairy tales that made it into history or actual truth. I didn't think magic was real in the realm of westros either. It was another thing that is talked about only in the past tense so i assumed it was history being distorted over time. (i know the white walkers is supernatural but again that could have been a diease or something explained naturally).

St_Jason - I guess that is why they have book clubs & such, because each person sees/reads it differently.
I took the talk of Dragon skulls in the Throne Room, which was mentioned by Tyrion who is one of the skeptics of the other fantasy elements, to mean that Dragons were accepted as having been real, but now they were extinct. Kind of like Dinosaurs.

My post means that the Direwolves, have no speical ability or magic they are just giant wolves.