True Anomaly said:

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P.C. Principal said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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That's what I thought, the never ending at of double standards for leftist trash. Hypocrites of the highest order.

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I'm simply pointing out that it's wrong to assume that every shooter is mentally ill because that frames this ONLY as a mental health issue. My point all along has been that mental health is PART of the problem but certainly not the whole thing.

The El Paso guy's motive was clear, not sure why that's controversial. Evidence of mental illness for him is weak , even if he's an evil unstable person.

I COULD NOT GIVE A SINGLE **** WHO HE OR THE DAYTON GUY SUPPORTS POLITICALLY. People who get hung up on that are disgusting hacks. What matters to me is the motive only.

edited to clean up some unnecessary language.

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A mass shooter perfectly fits the definition of antisocial personality disorder, which is absolutely a DSM-5 diagnosis

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hph6203 said:

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These people don't necessarily have a lack of understanding what they're doing, they don't necessarily lack understanding of the consequences, and they don't necessarily lack the capacity for empathy they have just lost empathy for the individuals that they target. They go around talking about how the other side is "trash" or "the enemy" or "destroying this country", because those individuals think/look/act differently than they do. They do that and then they lose purpose in their life, they lose value of themselves and the only thing they know to do is something drastic that elevates their importance in their own mind and in the minds of their "peers". And yes, there is a subset of individuals out there that read the manifesto of the El Paso shooter and thought "This guy gets it, he's a hero." It's a very small subset of people, but it's enough to incentivize this kind of behavior




You're talking about "leftists" as if they have the intention of making this country worse rather than just have different priorities and a different plan for making this country better. They want cheaper healthcare, you want cheaper healthcare. They think that's best done by collectively bargaining the price of healthcare and normalizing the practices across the country through a government sponsored healthcare plan, you think the free market is the best avenue. Maybe you're right, maybe they're right, maybe you're both right.

You're turning it from a battle of ideas to a battle of people and you're taking the ideas of the few and the ideas of the vocal and ascribing it to every individual that votes differently than you. I don't know a single individual that fully encompasses the platform of either party. You do not perfectly align with the talking points of the Republican party any more than the person you're arguing with aligns with the ideas of the Democratic party.

When people use terms like leftists or socialists or alt-right or conservatives or whatever you end up removing the individuality of people. Once you do that you've lost any possibility of changing anyone's mind and you're just looking for applause or an outlet for your anger. It's sad, it's ego stroking and it makes you come across like a crazy person.

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hph6203 said:

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These people don't necessarily have a lack of understanding what they're doing, they don't necessarily lack understanding of the consequences, and they don't necessarily lack the capacity for empathy they have just lost empathy for the individuals that they target. They go around talking about how the other side is "trash" or "the enemy" or "destroying this country", because those individuals think/look/act differently than they do. They do that and then they lose purpose in their life, they lose value of themselves and the only thing they know to do is something drastic that elevates their importance in their own mind and in the minds of their "peers". And yes, there is a subset of individuals out there that read the manifesto of the El Paso shooter and thought "This guy gets it, he's a hero." It's a very small subset of people, but it's enough to incentivize this kind of behavior




You're talking about "leftists" as if they have the intention of making this country worse rather than just have different priorities and a different plan for making this country better. They want cheaper healthcare, you want cheaper healthcare. They think that's best done by collectively bargaining the price of healthcare and normalizing the practices across the country through a government sponsored healthcare plan, you think the free market is the best avenue. Maybe you're right, maybe they're right, maybe you're both right.

You're turning it from a battle of ideas to a battle of people and you're taking the ideas of the few and the ideas of the vocal and ascribing it to every individual that votes differently than you. I don't know a single individual that fully encompasses the platform of either party. You do not perfectly align with the talking points of the Republican party any more than the person you're arguing with aligns with the ideas of the Democratic party.

When people use terms like leftists or socialists or alt-right or conservatives or whatever you end up removing the individuality of people. Once you do that you've lost any possibility of changing anyone's mind and you're just looking for applause or an outlet for your anger. It's sad, it's ego stroking and it makes you come across like a crazy person.

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Your inability to see that the left no longer has the best interest of this country at heart is wrong think and gives me pause as to whether or not you are competent to own a weapon. See how that works?

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gotsand said:

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the goal is to limit access to functioning weapons to only those with means.

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LawHall88 said:

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Ulrich said:

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Did we solve gun violence yet?

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Didn't you hear? The problem was video games all along.

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hph6203 said:

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Your inability to see that the left no longer has the best interest of this country at heart is wrong think and gives me pause as to whether or not you are competent to own a weapon. See how that works?

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Stating that the intent of the left is to damage the country.

As explained before, this was an exaggeration to highlight your dismissal of any opinions not shared by you.

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That's what I thought, the never ending at of double standards for leftist trash. Hypocrites of the highest order.

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Generalizing all liberal voters as hypocrites.

I fail to see how liberal voters that refuse to denounce liberal media bias and the double standards that liberals and Democrats are held to are not hypocrites. I have yet to see a single liberal except maybe Alan Dershowitz paint the media bias in their favor as dangerous. Just really sick of the acceptance of that by half the country. If there's any liberals on this thread that feel the bias is unhealthy for our country, please speak up, but I expect to hear crickets.

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Because you're going with the layman's understanding of mental illness and not the actual scientific understanding of it. Mental instability != illness. He did what he did because he's evil and was targeting immigrants, not because his magical pink unicorn friend Tony told him to.

https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2019/08/statement-shootings

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So the Dayton shooter did it because he was an evil socialist not because he was mentally ill? Or do only people who are perceived as right wing commit politically motivated violence despite sanity?

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Here you are fabricating thoughts and putting words into someone's mouth while espousing the "same belief" about whether ideological leanings of the shooter is even relevant later in the thread.

Merely pointing out that the typical media and liberal response to any mass shooting involving someone who is perceived as "right wing" is that they "are racist and evil, but not mentally ill" while on the other hand anytime the perpetrator who is perceived as left leaning "they are crazy, but didn't commit the act based on ideology". That old double standard we already talked about. Everything right wing is evil and everything left wing is good and right. I don't care what their ideology is, but what I was trying to highlight is that the one sided use of the shooter's ideological identification to vilify the right to be disgusting. At the time I wrote this that appeared to be PC Principals position, which he later clarified and I told him I respected that his position was to equally denounce both sides for politicizing.

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If lawful gun owners are not the problem, then why does every solution proposed by the left punish lawful gun owners (ex. new sell bans, buybacks, or confiscation) or provide a path to do so (ex. registration, private sale background checks)?

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Generalizing.

Can you name even a single gun control policy proposition supported by the left that doesn't infringe on the rights of law abiding gun owners or give them an easier path to do so later?

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Can you name a single liberal policy position that is beneficial for this country?

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Generalizing.

I'll concede and say that their MJ legalization goal is beneficial. Gay marriage was the right thing to do even though I don't agree with the way they did it. Can't think of anything else at all.

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There is nothing to work with, with the liberals. Everything they want except for MJ legalisation is bad mojo. They are lying scum bags who hate America and white people. Why would anyone agree to negotiate with such pathological liars?

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All liberals are lying scum bags that hate white people and America.

Honestly my feathers were a little ruffled when I said this and I probably shouldn't have. Few things fire me up like people working to take away my rights. Twisting of the truth is an important part of the liberal propaganda machine and anti white and anti american rhetoric is not uncommon. Furthermore, there is no reason to negotiate with liberals. That only goes one direction - conservatives lose rights. Democrats never give anything in exchange. It's only a matter of how much they get. Some of the blame for that can be place on spineless Republicans.

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For the right, it's not so much about winning, but stopping the progressive leftist agenda from destroying the most successful country in the history of the world. An agenda which is unarguably supported by globalist that want to see the downfall of the American superpower. Liberals vary greatly, but they are either brainwashed, shockingly ignorant, insane, flat out evil, or a combination of the former options.

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Liberals are going to destroy America. They're brainwashed (the irony). They are varied in nuanced, but they're really all just the same, because they're stupid, evil or insane or all of the above.

Too dumb to understand the nuance in a situation (I added this one for you)

I said the progressive leftist agenda (not liberals) is going to destroy America.

You misunderstand this. There is a difference between the brainwashed, ignorant, insane, and evil, although some do share the same traits. They are largely different groups.

Brainwashed: Lived in a bubble their entire lives because they are indoctrinated by leftist academia and media their entire lives. People on the left have to actively seek out conservative view points because they are not taught in school or popular media for the most part. Most do not seek out those viewpoints.

Ignorant: See above

Insane: Have you ever watched any clips of a liberal protest, vagina hat party, antifa riot, abortion celebrations? Not all of them are insane, but there's a lot who are. This goes for both sides of the aisle though. There's nuts everywhere.

Evil: These are the elites pushing the progressive agenda for personal gain. Abortion advocates fall into this category as well.

There are of course some liberals out there that are none of the above, but they are center left and vote in lockstep with the fringe when it matters. If this group is as big as many claim, they are extremely quiet.

It's quiet humorous that you think I'm the brainwashed one, considering that I've been inundated by leftist propaganda my entire life, yet I look at the actions of these people and the words that they speak and form my own conclusions. Yet half of the country never hears the view points of the other side without them first going through the filter of a media spin machine.

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Do not take the overwhelming liberal bias in popular media, academia, and bureaucracy lightly. It is very dangerous!

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Liberals are dangerous.

Clearly not saying liberals are dangerous. The liberal bias in those institutions is extremely dangerous. Liberals would unanimously say the same if roles were reversed.

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That basically describes 99.99% of liberal gun control advocates. They want to ban something they do not understand.

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Liberals all think the same, and want the same thing.

Have you ever heard a gun control advocate speak knowledgeably about the weapons they want to ban?

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Say what you will about Trump, I don't care, but you can't deny that Democrats are lying scum bags.

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Democrats are liars and scum bags.

Have you ever watched a house or senate committee meeting and listened to the questions they ask and their demeanor? Were you asleep during the Kavanaugh hearings? Listened to any of the 2020 Democratic debates?

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The vilification of AR-15s is about the liberal gun control agenda, not about stopping mass shootings. The left loves these shootings, they get great ammunition for the gun control debate and paint every shooter as a white supremacist to further their agenda of racial division in a pathetic attempt to scrape up votes for the Democrats.

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Democrats are trying to create racial division.

They are, this is not even debatable.

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How is it not? Why would any person who supports the 2nd amendment ever let a low life scum bag Democrat define the terms by which we can purchase weapons? You're talking about people who lie every time their mouth is moving and know jack **** about weapons.

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Democrats are low life scum bags.

Once again Democrats are. Not saying all liberal voters are, but Democrats most certainly are.

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Stop using the term "gun violence". Liberals use this to make the debate about guns and not about the psychopaths that will kill regardless of access to guns. Their agenda is not about stopping mass shootings, but stripping or preventing the future sale of guns to law abiding citizens. Mental health and psychotropic drugs need to be addressed, not stripping the rights of millions. If these nut bags can't get a gun legally, they'll buy a gun illegally, they'll build a bomb or drive a truck into a crowd. Gun control is not about the criminals.

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Liberals always blame the gun and never the perpetrator.

They may place some blame on the perpetrator, but it's the guns they're after. Did the house pass a mental illness and/or psychotropic drug measure this week or was it gun control?

My point is that you use exaggeration as a tool to get your point across, because you don't actually make solid foundational arguments against what the other side is saying, because you don't take the time to understand the nuance of the argument. At least not on this thread. There were multiple times where you didn't even respond to what the poster before you even said, you just started "liberal bashing".

I misunderstood PC Principal at first, but acknowledged that shortly after. It's no secret that the media and Democrats have focused on White Nationalism, Trump and El Paso, while mostly ignoring Dayton. In other words, their focus has been on using these tragedies for political gain and I find those that do so to be disgusting human beings.

The thing is I probably agree with a lot of your viewpoints, but the form of your argument absolutely sucks and I can't discern any function behind it other than to get people that already agree with you to cheer you on, and not everyone that agrees with you cheers. A lot (probably most) of the people that do agree with you cringe and think "Damn, if there weren't so much of this kind of loud talking, angry, hyperbolic non-sense we might actually be able to change the minds of some of those that disagree with us or don't understand our views and we might actually get something done."

Your argument position is to not take a side and call anyone who does crazy. That doesn't work either. You're not going to change the minds of gun control liberals. Might as well call them out for their hypocrisy and the actions they take to strip your rights. Their lack of awareness towards the double standards and media bias is frustrating as hell to get across to them, so I point it out every chance I get.

And I'm only picking on you, because you're the loudest one on this thread. There are plenty of politically left voting individuals that do the same as you and they're every bit or even more nauseating than what you've been posting. What you'll find is that most people don't discuss politics online, because the form of the argument turns into the form of the argument you're using (the other side is stupid, brainwashed, ignorant or evil) and it's a waste of time. Those that do post about politics are more likely to hold the more extreme/conflicting views that you talk about, but most people don't think the way you assume they do. If even one side is right about the irredeemable qualities of the other, then it means half the country is totally ****ed up, and this country functions too well for that to be true.

I mostly agree with this, but I really wish the moderate liberals were more vocal. You don't see much of them calling out the fringe and like I said before they'll vote with them in lockstep. It's not quiet that simple on the right. Most people on the right hate the right wing extremist and there is a lot of division on voting. We're starting to see more of it on the left though, I'll give them that. At the end of the day many people that lean to the right do not like the Republicans (myself included), but the alternative is just so awful, that we have to hold our nose a vote to a keep a Democrat out of office.

Shaming someone into agreeing with you almost never works. Maybe you don't care whether they do or not.

They're never going to agree with anyone on the right. I was a bit flustered when I wrote many of these posts, because gun ban proposals piss me off more than just about any other liberal policy. Those policies will only hurt law abiding citizens and will make zero difference to mass murderers.

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Philo B 93 said:

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The increase in mass shootings in recent history correlates almost directly with the increase in FPS video games. Ie, pac-man and Defender vs Modern Combat and Fortnight . We're training and desensitizing kids with the most realistic programs possible from the moment they can hold a controller.

Secondly, the legal age to own a gun is arbitrarily set at 18. Move it to 30. At least the 20 year olds will be nervous while driving to commit mass murder. Maybe they'll run a stop light and get busted.

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Bruce Almighty said:

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Philo B 93 said:

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The increase in mass shootings in recent history correlates almost directly with the increase in FPS video games. Ie, pac-man and Defender vs Modern Combat and Fortnight . We're training and desensitizing kids with the most realistic programs possible from the moment they can hold a controller.

Secondly, the legal age to own a gun is arbitrarily set at 18. Move it to 30. At least the 20 year olds will be nervous while driving to commit mass murder. Maybe they'll run a stop light and get busted.

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I don't buy it. Where's the mass shootings in Korea, Japan and Europe? These games aren't only played in America.

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Builder93 said:

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What is an "assault rifle"?

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nortex97 said:

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We banned bump stocks. The problem is now solved. What is this stuff about 'next' steps?

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