harge57 said:

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Boggles my mind that people would vaccinate their kids for COVID.

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Boggles my mind how boggled other people's minds are.

So no answers to my questions?

Please provide a rational reason kids should be vaccinated for COVID.

I've got to give props to this guy because he's basing his viewpoint strictly on the numbers.

He pretty much says the vaccine is safe for adults, and that since it's safe for adults, there is no reason to believe it's not safe for kids (and the studies are confirming that).

He acknowledges that there is a low risk of having a severe adverse effect from the vaccine, but these are rare (in kids and adults). The risk is also not unique to the Covid vaccine.

But he also acknowledges that Covid poses a very low risk for kids. The get sick from it and spread it at MUCH lower rates than adults.

So, the benefit to vaccinating a kid is not as great as it is for adults. The risk of vaccinating (which is low) is about the same, but there is a significant difference in the benefit of the vaccine, because kids just aren't affected by this vaccine like adults are.

He goes on to list other pros and cons of vaccinations, but those reasons aren't as based in fact/data as his main reason. They are more "convenience" reasons related to fear, anxiety, access to the vaccine, missing school because the vaccine causes mild symptoms, etc.

The way I interpret this is, there really is no compelling/overwhelming reason one way or the other. If you do choose to vaccinate your kid, you aren't putting them at any greater risk, and if you do vaccinate, it's probably not going to contribute much herd immunity and/or protecting others.

Vaccination really comes down to what makes the PARENT most comfortable. Does the parent want to eliminate the (miniscule) risk that their kid might die from Covid, or does a parent want to eliminate the (equally miniscule) risk that their kid might experience a bad adverse effect from Covid? Again, this is a very unscientific conclusion.

But, I appreciate that he makes a point to say that there is no issue with the SAFETY of the vaccine itself, particularly when it comes to kids. And there is no reason to avoid the vaccine because of the mythical "long-term effects".

As much as I hate this word, this whole issue with vaccinating young kids is the very definition of privilege (specifically American privilege).

We live in a country where, in less than a year, the pharmaceutical industry and healthcare system has developed, manufactured, and distributed a vaccine that is as close to 100% effective as a vaccine can be for every single person in the country, regardless of whether or not a specific population even NEEDS the vaccine.

Basically, vaccine is available to kids, not because of need, but so their parents can virtue signal (or just "sleep better" knowing their kid has an even less infinitesimal risk of getting sick from Covid).

Compare that to other areas of the world where even the most vulnerable still can't get the vaccine and/or ineffective and inferior vaccine is being distributed.

Now, I don't for one second think that people here should start refusing vaccine on behalf of those in other countries who can't get it. That's not how vaccine distribution works.

But, you've got to recognize what an impressive accomplishment that is, and acknowledge how fortunate we are to live in a country where we have the ability to prevent disease/illness in people who aren't even really at risk for complications from said illness.

jopatura said:

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My biggest concern is that the vaccines will have the ability to trigger MIS-C in kids. Inflammatory responses is already a side effect of other vaccines. I agree for the 12-15 age group it is probably okay since they seemed to be affected by MIS-C after COVID less. I want to see children's trials with more then a few thousand participants and a long enough observation window. From what I've read, they are aware of the MIS-C concerns, but want everything wrapped up in about four months.

But for us, I think our hand is going to be forced by mask usage at the school. If the schools require vaccinations to be unmasked and make a big deal about enforcement, my 7 year old daughter is definitely going to want the vaccination. She has already asked for it because she knows we got it and she wants to ditch the mask at school.

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I'm not trying to say MIS-C isn't a concern, but we know it is caused by the Covid virus itself. There is still a lot of research on this specific condition, but if you're worried about a vaccine inducing MIS-C, you've got to also be worried about an actual Covid infection causing it (and possibly causing a worse case). Not getting vaccinated doesn't prevent MIS-C.

harge57 said:

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So no answers to my questions?

Please provide a rational reason kids should be vaccinated for COVID.

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I'm not saying kids need to be vaccinated. I'm just boggled at how boggled you are that it's somehow boggling that someone would choose to vaccinate their kids against COVID.

harge57 said:

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So no answers to my questions?

Please provide a rational reason kids should be vaccinated for COVID.

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to limit chances of serious illness to themselves and others.

You rest your argument on your belief that the common strains are not serious for young people. Do you intend to take them to a COVID party while they are still a "young person" to guarantee they get it before they move into a higher risk age bracket?

(Additionally, I have enough friends with long-haul issues to say this isn't something you want to get.)

speck said:

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harge57 said:

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So no answers to my questions?

Please provide a rational reason kids should be vaccinated for COVID.

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to limit chances of serious illness to themselves and others.

You rest your argument on your belief that the common strains are not serious for young people. Do you intend to take them to a COVID party while they are still a "young person" to guarantee they get it before they move into a higher risk age bracket?

(Additionally, I have enough friends with long-haul issues to say this isn't something you want to get.)

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I would rather give my kid COVID than give them the vaccine. And to my earlier point about antibody testing before vaccination my kids have most likely already beaten COVID. My wife and I did not quarantine from our kids when we had COVID. We were pretty much asymptomatic except some loss of smell, but the risk of something bad occurring from them being exposed to COVID is basically 0.

There have been 10 million kids that have had COVID and the risk of that is VERY well known. (None). Basically as long as they don't have a very significant existing health problem then they are 100% fine and most likely will not even have symptoms.

Now if 1 million 5 year olds take the vaccine and there are absolutely no issues then the risk of the vaccine will approach the same level of COVID.

I am really not arguing the vaccine isn't safe for kids. It most likely is absolutely fine. I give my kids a bunch of other vaccines with no issue.

My issue is there is no purpose to give a kid the vaccine. And without it being substantially proven I fall on the side of no intervention.

There's always the possibility of long term (years and years from now) side effects of COVID infections that we don't know about yet since its only been around 18 months or so. Could end up causing something like shingles or worse induce cancer like HPV does or some heart issue like we've seen in some infections.

Or it could cause nothing.

With the way the vaccine works, long term effects from it don't seem plausible.

The risk to kids is small for sure, but it is not none. Especially 15-25 the risk of death is significantly more than flu.

Now I'm sure almost all of those young deaths had complicating conditions but that data is hard to find.

Swimming and riding in a car and suicide are still more likely to kill people under 25, but to say the risk is none is hyperbolic.

KidDoc said:

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The risk to kids is small for sure, but it is not none. Especially 15-25 the risk of death is significantly more than flu.

Now I'm sure almost all of those young deaths had complicating conditions but that data is hard to find.

Swimming and riding in a car and suicide are still more likely to kill people under 25, but to say the risk is none is hyperbolic.

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If your risk is greater from riding in the car, that risk is not worth even crossing your mind.

harge57 said:

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speck said:

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harge57 said:

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So no answers to my questions?

Please provide a rational reason kids should be vaccinated for COVID.

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to limit chances of serious illness to themselves and others.

You rest your argument on your belief that the common strains are not serious for young people. Do you intend to take them to a COVID party while they are still a "young person" to guarantee they get it before they move into a higher risk age bracket?

(Additionally, I have enough friends with long-haul issues to say this isn't something you want to get.)

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I would rather give my kid COVID then give them the vaccine. And to my earlier point about antibody testing before vaccination my kids have most likely have already beaten COVID. My wife and I did not quarantine from our kids when we had COVID. We were pretty much asymptomatic except some loss of smell, but the risk of something bad occurring from them being exposed to COVID is basically 0.

There have been 10 million kids that have had COVID and the risk of that is VERY well known. (None). Basically as long as they don't have a very significant existing health problem then they are 100% fine and most likely will not even have symptoms.

Now if 1 million 5 year olds take the vaccine and there are absolutely no issues then the risk of the vaccine will approach the same level of COVID.

I am really not arguing the vaccine isn't safe for kids. It most likely is absolutely fine. I give my kids a bunch of other vaccines with no issue.

My issue is there is no purpose to give a kid the vaccine. And without it being substantially proven I fall on the side of no intervention.

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Concur 1000%

I mean its literally 1 in a million.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/science-and-society-are-failing-children-in-the-covid-era/

harge57 said:

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speck said:

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harge57 said:

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So no answers to my questions?

Please provide a rational reason kids should be vaccinated for COVID.

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to limit chances of serious illness to themselves and others.

You rest your argument on your belief that the common strains are not serious for young people. Do you intend to take them to a COVID party while they are still a "young person" to guarantee they get it before they move into a higher risk age bracket?

(Additionally, I have enough friends with long-haul issues to say this isn't something you want to get.)

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I would rather give my kid COVID then give them the vaccine. And to my earlier point about antibody testing before vaccination my kids have most likely have already beaten COVID. My wife and I did not quarantine from our kids when we had COVID. We were pretty much asymptomatic except some loss of smell, but the risk of something bad occurring from them being exposed to COVID is basically 0.

There have been 10 million kids that have had COVID and the risk of that is VERY well known. (None). Basically as long as they don't have a very significant existing health problem then they are 100% fine and most likely will not even have symptoms.

Now if 1 million 5 year olds take the vaccine and there are absolutely no issues then the risk of the vaccine will approach the same level of COVID.

I am really not arguing the vaccine isn't safe for kids. It most likely is absolutely fine. I give my kids a bunch of other vaccines with no issue.

My issue is there is no purpose to give a kid the vaccine. And without it being substantially proven I fall on the side of no intervention.

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You asked for a rational argument. I gave you one. I don't expect to change your mind on a TexAgs forum but you should know there are valid alternate viewpoints.

Just curious... did your children get the chickenpox vaccine?

harge57 said:

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I mean its literally 1 in a million.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/science-and-society-are-failing-children-in-the-covid-era/

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That graph depicts mortality. Do you have any data on morbidity?

Quote:

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I would rather give my kid COVID then give them the vaccine.

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This is a rather interesting position. I don't understand why in this situation just giving your kids the vaccine isn't preferred to them getting COVID and then getting the vaccine. I am curious to understand the rationale.

bigtruckguy3500 said:

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harge57 said:

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I mean its literally 1 in a million.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/science-and-society-are-failing-children-in-the-covid-era/

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That graph depicts mortality. Do you have any data on morbidity?

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Do you have one for morbidity from Covid in young children after they have already had Covid?

I bet the number is so small that it is not even worth discussing.

rbcs_2 said:

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Quote:

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I would rather give my kid COVID then give them the vaccine.

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This is a rather interesting position. I don't understand why in this situation just giving your kids the vaccine isn't preferred to them getting COVID and then getting the vaccine. I am curious to understand the rationale.

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I don't think parents who would choose to not vaccinate for covid would turn around and vaccinate after their kid tests positive for covid, if that is what you are saying here. Not sure why they would, as durable immunity seems to be a thing in the recovered.

SoupNazi2001 said:

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rbcs_2 said:

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Quote:

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I would rather give my kid COVID then give them the vaccine.

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This is a rather interesting position. I don't understand why in this situation just giving your kids the vaccine isn't preferred to them getting COVID and then getting the vaccine. I am curious to understand the rationale.

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Because Covid isn't dangerous to kids.

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Not following how that's relevant. If one is willing to vaccinate their kids, why wait until after they have already gotten COVID? Why not vaccinate before?

That's what I was responding to.

Two things --

1. I'm more concerned your wife would care more about a physician that she doesn't know and what they tell her about the kids getting the vaccine -- i.e. why does that person have more credence than your opinion as to their dad/her husband (I assume this is the case)... there's no huge rush per say that demands disrespecting your wishes, IMO...there is time for compromise for sure.

2. As someone who lost a child at 18 months to a "1 in a million cancer" one of the only reasons I am able to function daily and am not daily haunted by losing him is because I know a) we did not "cause" and could not have prevented it and b) there was no option for saving him via treatment. I implore you to realize the 1 in a million, while low, does happen -- either from COVID or from vaccine just as it does from super rare cancers like my son's. That understood I would ask you and your wife "Do you wish to have made the choice for your children knowing that 1 in a million chance or not?" That would be something to consider.

Perhaps the best option, for now, is to let it ride and give your kids a homework assignment to work on together over the next few months to research reputable websites and possibly decide for themselves. Critically analyze the options for and against. You will not only prove your trust in their judgment but allow them to learn and grow. Based on their opinions and argument then you and your wife may collectively feel ok with whatever choice is made.

I can promise you, you do NOT want to be the one to choose to give them the vaccine (against your gut) and something goes haywire and you have that on your conscience.

edit: I am not medical, I have not posted on this board before, weirdly enough I looked at it today and saw this post and felt compelled to respond. I'm just a boring old mom of three kids

Well. My (personal) thought is we don't have a choice to be exposed to Covid... we have a choice to get the vaccine. I hope that makes sense. It's certainly a you never know, damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I was just trying to throw out there the perspective of making choice you may later regret, is all.

bucky91 said:

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I have 2 daughters, 17 and 14 and the wife is wanting to have them get the COVID vaccine. I am not wanting to. Risk v reward is slight for kids. I would rather hold out and see some results and more info on an experimental vaccine. Kids pediatrician pushing it. Would love to send my wife to a local Austin doctor to present an alternate view...

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No reason a 17 and 14 year old should get it......

Man . . .look at that screen. The early 80s called. They want you to return the DOS PC when you are finished with it.

My 17 year old is getting the vax not because he fears covid or getting sick, but because we think the idiots at every level of beurocracy will make vaccines or weekly testing mandatory at places like A&M.