LIV and PGA Tour Merging

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aggiebonzo
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AG
I'm sure it was but sounds like a lot has been blown out of proportion…
JCA1
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AG
aggiebonzo said:

AustinCountyAg said:

Legacy's in golf are built on Majors. Not John Deere Classic and Rocket Mortgage victories.

Again, I personally believe there is/was some truth in Rahm looking at LIV
There is absolutely no truth to it but believe what you want. If he was going to leave it would've been when DJ, Brooks, or even Cam left. Why would he leave when the future of LIV was as bleak as its ever been with horrible TV coverage, no major sponsors, and little boy golf courses. He's not an idiot.
They believe that. And that everyone, including networks and companies with no discernable reason to do so, decided to collude with the PGAT. And that their phone is now ringing off the hook from companies that want to get on the LIV train even though it's far from clear what role LIV will even have, if any, in golf going forward. And that there is no conceivable reason other than collusion for why they never got a TV deal other than the CW (and it's never quite explained why the CW wasn't part of that collusion). And that their miniscule fanbase would be enormous if only people had some way to watch (Youtube, LIV website, and the CW apparently don't count).

LIV good. Everyone else bad. It is what it is. There's really no arguing with it. I'm disappointed in myself for trying.
zgolfz85
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AG
well if jay assured rory he'd be compensated for his loyalty and turning down LIV money, of course Rory would defend him. I have to think jay and rory had plenty of 1 on 1 convos before the player meeting considering they've been attached at the hip for several years on the LIV front

I'm sure Jay was super apologetic and promised Rory that he'd be taken care of in some fashion
Bunk Moreland
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JCA1 said:

aggiebonzo said:

AustinCountyAg said:

Legacy's in golf are built on Majors. Not John Deere Classic and Rocket Mortgage victories.

Again, I personally believe there is/was some truth in Rahm looking at LIV
There is absolutely no truth to it but believe what you want. If he was going to leave it would've been when DJ, Brooks, or even Cam left. Why would he leave when the future of LIV was as bleak as its ever been with horrible TV coverage, no major sponsors, and little boy golf courses. He's not an idiot.
They believe that. And that everyone, including networks and companies with no discernable reason to do so, decided to collude with the PGAT. And that their phone is now ringing off the hook from companies that want to get on the LIV train even though it's far from clear what role LIV will even have, if any, in golf going forward. And that there is no conceivable reason other than collusion for why they never got a TV deal other than the CW (and it's never quite explained why the CW wasn't part of that collusion). And that their miniscule fanbase would be enormous if only people had some way to watch (Youtube, LIV website, and the CW apparently don't count).

LIV good. Everyone else bad. It is what it is. There's really no arguing with it. I'm disappointed in myself for trying.

Funny you mention that. We've been down this road countless times. There are maybe 2 or 3 people on this board who are "LIV good. everyone else bad."

There are others who are interested and have been interested in what LIV is doing and still love and enjoy the PGAT.

There are maybe 2 or 3 that are just generally bummed that the tour got split.

Then there's a ton of people who are 100% anti LIV no matter what and can't conceivably imagine that entities as prominent as Jimmy Dunne, the PGAT with all their mega corporate sponsors and the main golf bodies would ever lean on their media partners to try and keep LIV down over the last year, even though they've all but admitted to doing so.

They go back to the same well making the same tropes over and over. First they'd never get anyone of name, until they did. Then they only got guys over the hill, until they took the Open champ. Then it was exhibition golf, until they showed up and competed then won a major. Then it would never survive, until it appears the PGAT wasn't going to survive and PIF infused money and life into the Tour.

So excuse the very small number of people here who aren't convinced LIV is 100% going away just yet. Because the predictions by one loud faction have been wrong time and time again throughout the saga.
JFrench
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AG
I'm in the minority but also don't think LIV is going away. They're goal was global golf. Picking up the slack and shortcomings of the WGC.

Are international ratings a thing? How would Adelaide compare to the Zurich to international markets? How would Adelaide compare to an Australia WGC event?

PJYoung
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AustinCountyAg said:

Not sure how to link the tweet but apperantly at the player meeting the other day Grayson Murray yelled at Jay to resign and then Rory yelled back at Grayson to "play better". Rory is a complete *****.


And they were joking about it with each other after. Grayson did a whole interview about it on Twitter.
PJYoung
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AG
JFrench said:

I'm in the minority but also don't think LIV is going away. They're goal was global golf. Picking up the slack and shortcomings of the WGC.

Are international ratings a thing? How would Adelaide compare to the Zurich to international markets? How would Adelaide compare to an Australia WGC event?




The branding and some of the format is probably going away. The concept of an elite tier, global league certainly is not.
Aggie369
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AG
Funny to watch people take such strong stances...no one knows what's gonna happen. Endless options right now really....should be fun to see what the end product looks like

I'm excited to get to watch all top players have access to all tournaments though...Cam, Koepka, DJ, Bryson, Phil make golf better
MarathonAg12
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I don't understand the hate either.

The merger was good for the game
class of 03
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Everyone playing together, if we get that, is great for golf fans, which I'm one.

Still, I'll have my fun with LIV's failures because LIV negatively impacted golf fans, which I'm one, two years ago.
AgLA06
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AG
MarathonAg12 said:

I don't understand the hate either.

The merger was good for the game


Yep. Especially if Jay and his cronies in the failed PGAT leadership end up gone.
AgLA06
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AG
class of of 03 said:



Still, I'll have my fun with LIV's failures because LIV negatively impacted golf fans, which I'm one, two years ago.


Explain in detail.
MarathonAg12
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class of 03 said:

Everyone playing together, if we get that, is great for golf fans, which I'm one.

Still, I'll have my fun with LIV's failures because LIV negatively impacted golf fans, which I'm one, two years ago.


LIV's failures???

Phil and LIV accomplished what they set out to do
MarathonAg12
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JCA1
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AG
Aggie369 said:

Funny to watch people take such strong stances...no one knows what's gonna happen. Endless options right now really....should be fun to see what the end product looks like

I'm excited to get to watch all top players have access to all tournaments though...Cam, Koepka, DJ, Bryson, Phil make golf better
Agreed on getting everyone back together. Next season should be a lot of fun. The schism was my primary reason for disliking LIV, so I'm optimistic about golf's future.

We're guilty (me as much as anyone) of rehashing old arguments. Probably best just to leave it alone and look forward. I'll try and do my part (although no promises).

On a totally different subject, here's Dunne's first comments. He, in particular, addressed the 9/11 angle and his personal involvement with 9/11. He handled it lightyear's better than Monahan.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/golf/2023/06/08/jimmy-dunne-pga-tour-liv-golf-merger-participation/70301457007/
Poot
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Who would that be? Not Rahm because "multiple major winner"… Morikawa? Was he ever #1?
class of 03
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LIV failures: getting genuine interest from golf community or bringing new eyeballs to golf (no reason to explain this again and again), team golf, team golf franchises, shotgun start, etc.

We can agree to disagree on these.
watty
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AG
From what I can see, the highest he ever got was #2.
jonj101
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AG
Rahm won the US Open and Masters.
watty
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Poot said:

Who would that be? Not Rahm because "multiple major winner"… Morikawa? Was he ever #1?

Justin Thomas is the only one that fits that bill for "recent' #1 guys. If you go back to 2016, you have Jason Day and back in 2015, Spieth. Then Adam Scott in 2014. That's the entire list of people who qualify, other than Rahm.
zgolfz85
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AG
watty said:

Poot said:

Who would that be? Not Rahm because "multiple major winner"… Morikawa? Was he ever #1?

Justin Thomas is the only one that fits that bill for "recent' #1 guys. If you go back to 2016, you have Jason Day and back in 2015, Spieth. Then Adam Scott in 2014. That's the entire list of people who qualify, other than Rahm.


JT would never leave solo. It'd only be with spieth and likely rickie too
JBAB
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Mostly sourced from LIV point of view but Shipnuck has been all over this & the one that started everything with the Phil quotes. Doesn't sound like LIV plans on going anywhere and in fact seems to be doubling down.

https://firepitcollective.com/what-now-becomes-of-liv-golf-ask-yasir-al-rumayyan/
AgLA06
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class of 03 said:

LIV failures: getting genuine interest from golf community or bringing new eyeballs to golf (no reason to explain this again and again), team golf, team golf franchises, shotgun start, etc.

We can agree to disagree on these.


Failed so hard they now control things.
AgLA06
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AG
JBAB said:

Mostly sourced from LIV point of view but Shipnuck has been all over this & the one that started everything with the Phil quotes. Doesn't sound like LIV plans on going anywhere and in fact seems to be doubling down.

https://firepitcollective.com/what-now-becomes-of-liv-golf-ask-yasir-al-rumayyan/


Of course they are. This deal most likely means not only does the collusion and PGAT fueled hit pieces stop, but LIV now has full access to sponsors and television options they had been frozen out of. It's why people are laughing at the "LIV didn't succeed".

We'll see. It's now a fair fight.
AustinCountyAg
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aggiebonzo said:

AustinCountyAg said:

Legacy's in golf are built on Majors. Not John Deere Classic and Rocket Mortgage victories.

Again, I personally believe there is/was some truth in Rahm looking at LIV
There is absolutely no truth to it but believe what you want. If he was going to leave it would've been when DJ, Brooks, or even Cam left. Why would he leave when the future of LIV was as bleak as its ever been with horrible TV coverage, no major sponsors, and little boy golf courses. He's not an idiot.
lol. You have to be trolling??

"Why would he leave?

Why would the PGA tour sell out to the Saudis?

Oh yeah! Because $$$$$$$$
AustinCountyAg
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He's also been #1 in the world
zgolfz85
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AG
I could see there being some truth with rahm. He's made it more than clear that he values legacy above all else and wants to be remembered as one of the greats, meaning majors. Once it became clear majors would be open to LIV players, I could see him looking at a 400-500M payday easily. He's also a lot more family-oriented vs a lot of the tour players and why his wife and kiddos travel with him often. Compound that with wanting to be in Europe more to be close to family and friends, sure
Aggie369
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AG
Rahm likes the history golf too much IMO

He is a purist

Everyone has a number though...I'll ask around. I'm leaning towards not Rahm though
zgolfz85
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AG
Aggie369 said:

Rahm likes the history golf too much IMO

He is a purist

Everyone has a number though...I'll ask around. I'm leaning towards not Rahm though


Totally agree, but he's made many references to majors and I think he recognizes that Sam Snead doesn't get nearly as much respect as Jack, even though Sam has more overall wins. I also think a lot of these big names gambled thinking the eventual playing nice between LIV and PGAT was inevitable, just like with NBA/ABA, NFL/USFL, etc
JBAB
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I would think Rahm and Matsuyama are all but gone to LIV. There's been such strong rumblings about it since the beginning and now that they've got cover...they gone. They'll offer equity to Rahm and HIdeki like they have to the other big guns (the PIF gets 75% and player gets 25%). IMO the most likely end game is something like what is described in the article.

So how would all of this work? Conversations with various LIV insiders leads to a consensus of a schedule of maybe a dozen tournaments. Some would be slotted on dark weeks when no traditional Tour event is being played, but a handful would be co-sanctioned as part of the new unified schedule. Imagine the riveting frisson of an event with the six strongest LIV teams and a half-dozen squads of Tour regulars! LIV had already been considering an expansion to 14 teams. Doing so for 2024 would be a way to make whole some of the embittered players who turned down mega-offers. Says one LIV exec, "Now we can finally get Hideki [Matsuyama] and Jon Rahm. I would say every big name on the PGA Tour will get an offer. Except Rory. Nobody wants that little ***** on their team."

Would think the PGA tour more or less stays the same with getting rid of 5 or so tournaments (Byron and Honda both w/o sponsors as an example)....LIV would have 8 or so LIV only tournaments in off PGA weekends with another 4-6 that PGA and Euro tours are able to join/create a teams. On the other side individual PGA tour events will be able to extend sponsor invites to LIV players to come play. Non-PGA tour members can play up to 7 tournaments a year....and I could see that being lowered.
zgolfz85
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AG
Very good and candid interview with jimmy dunne right now on golf channel
zgolfz85
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Gist is basically that this was almost all about uniting the game and that financially PGAT was as healthy as it's ever been. He did say though that they didn't seriously entertain conversations until they got favorable court rulings in London and US. He said they made sure that PGAT wouldn't be in a compromised position going into those talks (aka if they'd lost those rulings).
Poot
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Duh, my fault. Forgot about Rahm's Masters win this year.
JBAB
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Jimmy Dunne is a tough one to figure out. He sure as heck is looking like a giant hypocrite. As recently as a few months ago he wouldn't let any LIV players play in his Pro/Member at Seminole.
zgolfz85
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Also said that they're semi treating the PIF funding as a bit of a safeguard in case economic woes come into play at any point

Said in speaking with Yasir that a lot of their goals for the sport align

Said their conversations were good and candid because he didn't come to Yasir in need of funding and that led to more mature and transparent conversations…and personally he's not benefiting financially from this deal (obvious same can't be said for Jay)
 
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