LIV and PGA Tour Merging

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Bunk Moreland
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In reply to bagger05 • 4:34p, 6/7/23
bagger05 said:
Bunk Moreland said:
bagger05 said:
Bunk Moreland said:
AggieDruggist89 said:
AgLA06 said:
AggieDruggist89 said:
zgolfz85 said:
MarathonAg12 said:
Lol where is the money coming from? The purses?





Haha at least the 2 already insanely rich guys are gonna be take care of. Jay is a ****ing moron. How about the guys that have to actually fight for their cards each year that were offered much smaller sums, but attractive sums nonetheless?
LIV guys got the reward without showing any loyalty.


They just took a huge risk on a start up and being black balled from the monopoly in town that owns the media and gullible fans. No big deal. Not near as hard as doing nothing.
What about Hideki and Will Zalatoris? Where's their rewards?

They chose not to jump. Everyone knew the quick big pay day was a one-time opportunity. Aggie369 with his PGA pro connections said a lot of guys began to call back and the offers were drastically reduced or gone.

I don't understand this concept that the guys who truly turned down offers should be 'made right' somehow. They chose not to go. That's fine. I admire their loyalty. They don't deserve a penny for that. And they'll likely still stand to earn a lot more based off this news for future Tour events.
The context they had when they made those decisions included:

- If you leave you can't come back
- You're going to lose access to most qualification methods for the majors, possibly forever


The very people who laid out this context are now changing it. The arrangements were made in secret. So far the only person with clear cut benefit is Jay Monahan himself. And he's the person who blocked any cooperation in the first place and was most vocal about not wanting to have any sort of partnership.

The players who decided to stay for loyalty probably don't have any actual standing to get recourse. And as Rory said in his presser, executing any recourse would be complicated. Maybe impossible. But that doesn't mean that it's not f'd up.

They had all the same information the other guys had. And the other guys chose to take a chance. Rules get changed all the time. Just last summer Rory was already being quoted saying all sides need to come together ultimately. What did he expect back then? That he'd be retroactively paid for staying?
That's fair. And I'm not saying these guys are necessarily DUE anything. But I understand where they're coming from. I think "How are you going to make this right?" is a fair question for those guys to be asking Monahan.

Agree completely. Monahan has bungled this for 4 years now...starting by not listening to player complaints (not just Phil) and refusing to pick up the phone with the PIF wanted to throw a bunch of money at the PGA Tour a long time ago without a rival league.
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_lefraud_
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4:39p, 6/7/23
AG
Surely, I'm not the only one here that would absolutely love to see 4 pros play a scramble.

The team aspect (and names) for LIV suck, but I have to think they had a different vision with sponsors, similar to F1. No sponsor wanted to jump on board, but maybe now with the merger, sponsors will pay top dollar to a team of 4 or 8, and create some sort of fun, competitive team format.
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Mateo84
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In reply to _lefraud_ • 4:43p, 6/7/23
AG
_lefraud_ said:
Surely, I'm not the only one here that would absolutely love to see 4 pros play a scramble.

The team aspect (and names) for LIV suck, but I have to think they had a different vision with sponsors, similar to F1. No sponsor wanted to jump on board, but maybe now with the merger, sponsors will pay top dollar to a team of 4 or 8, and create some sort of fun, competitive team format.


If you had a team aspect where the format changed each event (scramble, best ball, stableford, alternate shot, etc) and tied it to manufacturers (ala F1), THAT would have my interest. Team Taylormade vs Team Mizuno, etc could be pretty good stuff to watch.

The current iteration of team golf with guys just posting their own individual scores across the golf course (and with no uniting background between them) is not compelling at all.
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Ag_07
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4:47p, 6/7/23
AG
I was pretty meh about watching Full Swing S2 but I'm now ALL IN for sure.

That's gonna be great
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zgolfz85
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In reply to Mateo84 • 4:49p, 6/7/23
AG
Mateo84 said:
_lefraud_ said:
Surely, I'm not the only one here that would absolutely love to see 4 pros play a scramble.

The team aspect (and names) for LIV suck, but I have to think they had a different vision with sponsors, similar to F1. No sponsor wanted to jump on board, but maybe now with the merger, sponsors will pay top dollar to a team of 4 or 8, and create some sort of fun, competitive team format.


If you had a team aspect where the format changed each event (scramble, best ball, stableford, alternate shot, etc) and tied it to manufacturers (ala F1), THAT would have my interest. Team Taylormade vs Team Mizuno, etc could be pretty good stuff to watch.

The current iteration of team golf with guys just posting their own individual scores across the golf course (and with no uniting background between them) is not compelling at all.
agreed -- I wouldn't want it to be an every event deal, but that's the only way you could make a team concept interesting. well thought out....
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AustinCountyAg
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In reply to 98Ag99Grad • 4:51p, 6/7/23
98Ag99Grad said:
MarathonAg12 said:


Lol no way am I buying that.


I'm 100% buying that. It's obvious the way he's spoken recently that he misses Sergio and the other Spanish guys and wants them to play the Ryder Cup. He's also set for majors with his world rankings and wins so he doesn't have to be worried about not being in the fields. Also with two kids the idea of spending more time at home is there, not to mention his long back history with Phil and his brother.

Everyone saw the way LIV and the Australian guys were welcomed when they had the event there it was huge. To do the same thing in Spain I'm sure is also appealing not to mention the amount of money Rahm would get for signing. I 100% believe that he could've been in talks to join.

ETA I'm not buying that's why the PGAT caved but I damn sure believe it could've been a huge part.
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Bunk Moreland
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In reply to _lefraud_ • 4:51p, 6/7/23
Exactly. You give the best 40 guys in the world a group of 10 teams playing each other for ****loads of money and you actually brand it right instead of just creating goofy ass names, there is a TON of potential.

The **** talking would be fantastic.
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Bunk Moreland
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In reply to AustinCountyAg • 4:51p, 6/7/23
AustinCountyAg said:
98Ag99Grad said:
MarathonAg12 said:


Lol no way am I buying that.


I'm 100% buying that. It's obvious the way he's spoken recently that he misses Sergio and the other Spanish guys and wants them to play the Ryder Cup. He's also set for majors with his world rankings and wins so he doesn't have to be worried about not being in the fields. Also with two kids the idea of spending more time at home is there, not to mention his long back history with Phil and his brother.

Everyone saw the way LIV and the Austrian guys were welcomed when they had the event there it was huge. To do the same thing in Spain I'm sure is also appealing not to mention the amount of money Rahm would get for signing. I 100% believe that he could've been in talks to join.

Id be more willing to buy it if it came anywhere other than from that twitter handle. That person is just a (likely paid) stooge.

That said I do think Rahm was one of the ones who almost bolted originally.
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Aggie95
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4:56p, 6/7/23
AG
kinda late to the party here. I wonder if we'll see any public "protests" or calls for Monahan's resignation by the players this week during tv coverage?
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class of 03
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In reply to AustinCountyAg • 5:47p, 6/7/23
You think Rham wants to be tied to whiny ass Sergio? Not exactly a great brand builder, but ok.
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MarathonAg12
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5:51p, 6/7/23
LIV LOVE LAUGH

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DannyDuberstein
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9:04p, 6/7/23
AG
They have been playing these mic'd up silly season events for decades, some are team competition, and the trash talk and hilarity people think they are gonna get always underwhelms. I don't know why someone would think this would be different
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Bunk Moreland
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In reply to DannyDuberstein • 9:11p, 6/7/23
DannyDuberstein said:
They have been playing these mic'd up silly season events for decades, some are team competition, and the trash talk and hilarity people think they are gonna get always underwhelms. I don't know why someone would think this would be different


Because primetime exhibitions between 2 or 4 players playing for money to donate to charity along with Tom Brady and Peyton manning is different from the best in the world teaming up against each other trying to win $5 or 10+M.

A team concept in golf among the best in the world can be great drama if the stakes are high enough. I don't know why golf fans wouldn't want to see that.
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AustinCountyAg
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In reply to class of 03 • 9:13p, 6/7/23
class of 03 said:
You think Rham wants to be tied to whiny ass Sergio? Not exactly a great brand builder, but ok.
I don't think I know. He's said numerous times, including last week how he misses playing with those guys and wants them to be part of the Ryder cup team.
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class of 03
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In reply to AustinCountyAg • 9:30p, 6/7/23
Probably would be captain of Fireballs!!!!!

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DannyDuberstein
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In reply to Bunk Moreland • 10:06p, 6/7/23
AG
They did this 20 years ago with the Battles of Bighorn and Bridges. Annual Monday night matches for 6 years, a number of which were team events, and they included guys like John Daly, Sergio, Jack, Lee Trevino, Ernie Els, etc. They were for big paydays at the time and only included pros. Ratings grew for 2 years then steadily fizzled and they stopped doing it. Just didn't turn out as interesting in reality as it looked on paper. When you boil it down, most these guys are just pretty cautious when mic'd up
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jonj101
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10:26p, 6/7/23
AG
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MarathonAg12
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In reply to jonj101 • 10:31p, 6/7/23
What a ****ing *****.

PGA Tour can suck it. Bent over backwards and gave into LIV at any cost necessary.

Hypocrites
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cab559
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11:45p, 6/7/23
AG
Monahan has to be the most dislikable guy in golf right now. What a giant capitulation. Can't see how you take the approach you just did to completely 180 a year later. I'm in favor of the move but don't see how he makes it out of this with any respect from the players.
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concac
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In reply to cab559 • 7:15a, 6/8/23
AG
cab559 said:
Monahan has to be the most dislikable guy in golf right now. What a giant capitulation. Can't see how you take the approach you just did to completely 180 a year later. I'm in favor of the move but don't see how he makes it out of this with any respect from the players.
I don't think Monahan had any other options. Continuing to fight the LIV Tour in the courts would've bankrupted the PGAT.

Sure, he was duplicitous with his words and actions but at the end of the day, he did what was best for the PGAT and its players.

As for the players, nothing really is going to change. They'll still be playing for millions of dollars.
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Bunk Moreland
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7:23a, 6/8/23
https://firepitcollective.com/what-now-becomes-of-liv-golf-ask-yasir-al-rumayyan/

Quote:
Norman radiated confidence, saying that the 2024 LIV schedule was nearly finalized. "There will be no operational changes in 2023, 2024, 2025 and into the future," he said. Then came the mic drop: "LIV is a stand-alone entity and will continue to be that moving forward. And that comes right from the top."


Quote:
And that is the key to understanding LIV's future. To get its investment back, or even turn a profit, the PIF is counting on selling the 12 LIV team franchises, in which the PIF has a 75% equity stake in each. (The team captains own the other 25%.) Internally, LIV has thrown around $500 million valuations, which seemed like science fiction…until the merger. As part of Norman's all-call, LIV's global head of partnerships, Monica Fee, spoke about how her phone has been "ringing off the hook" since the merger announcement, citing Marriott, Anheuser-Busch, Fox and ESPN as those who had already made inquiries.


Quote:
So how would all of this work? Conversations with various LIV insiders leads to a consensus of a schedule of maybe a dozen tournaments. Some would be slotted on dark weeks when there is no traditional Tour event being played but a handful would be co-sanctioned as part of the new unified schedule. Imagine the riveting frisson of an event with the six strongest LIV teams and a half-dozen squads of Tour regulars! LIV had already been considering expanding to 14 teams. Doing so for 2024 would be a way to make whole some of the embittered players who had previously turned down mega-offers. Says a LIV exec, "Now we can finally get Hideki [Matsuyama] and Jon Rahm. I would say every big name on the PGA Tour will get an offer. Except Rory. Nobody wants that little ***** on their team."


Well will you look at that. It's almost as if they're planning on LIV being an elite series of tournaments for the world's best to throw money at.
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Tom Kazansky 2012
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In reply to Braxton.Sherrill • 7:38a, 6/8/23
AG
Braxton.Sherrill said:
Bunk Moreland said:
Braxton.Sherrill said:
Bunk Moreland said:



In a pure vacuum, if CBS, NBC or ABC/ESPN picked up LIV broadcasts the ratings would have been much higher and we would have actually seen what the audience could have been. They had a ton of star power and people would have tuned in to watch had it been more accessible.

It was completely free to watch and still no one did. OU softball had better ratings than LIV.

When did OU softball only appear on Youtube of the CW?
Ok some random kid playing fortnite has 100X the ratings of LIV. The kid spent $3k on his setup and LIV spent hundreds of Millions.

All American, superman & Lois, Walker, Gotham knights, the Winchesters, Stargirl, Walker: independence, whose line, Penn & Teller, and world's funniest animals all had better ratings on the CW than LIV.

Hell Nancy drew was almost neck and neck with liv Tucson.

That's also only the numbers for ages 18-49 on cw compared to every viewer for LIV.

Is that a more acceptable comparison?

No. I want to see trajectories. Many of the weekend golfers and fans didn't even know liv was on certain channels.
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Mateo84
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In reply to Bunk Moreland • 7:58a, 6/8/23
AG
Bunk Moreland said:
https://firepitcollective.com/what-now-becomes-of-liv-golf-ask-yasir-al-rumayyan/

Quote:
Norman radiated confidence, saying that the 2024 LIV schedule was nearly finalized. "There will be no operational changes in 2023, 2024, 2025 and into the future," he said. Then came the mic drop: "LIV is a stand-alone entity and will continue to be that moving forward. And that comes right from the top."


Quote:
And that is the key to understanding LIV's future. To get its investment back, or even turn a profit, the PIF is counting on selling the 12 LIV team franchises, in which the PIF has a 75% equity stake in each. (The team captains own the other 25%.) Internally, LIV has thrown around $500 million valuations, which seemed like science fiction…until the merger. As part of Norman's all-call, LIV's global head of partnerships, Monica Fee, spoke about how her phone has been "ringing off the hook" since the merger announcement, citing Marriott, Anheuser-Busch, Fox and ESPN as those who had already made inquiries.


Quote:
So how would all of this work? Conversations with various LIV insiders leads to a consensus of a schedule of maybe a dozen tournaments. Some would be slotted on dark weeks when there is no traditional Tour event being played but a handful would be co-sanctioned as part of the new unified schedule. Imagine the riveting frisson of an event with the six strongest LIV teams and a half-dozen squads of Tour regulars! LIV had already been considering expanding to 14 teams. Doing so for 2024 would be a way to make whole some of the embittered players who had previously turned down mega-offers. Says a LIV exec, "Now we can finally get Hideki [Matsuyama] and Jon Rahm. I would say every big name on the PGA Tour will get an offer. Except Rory. Nobody wants that little ***** on their team."


Well will you look at that. It's almost as if they're planning on LIV being an elite series of tournaments for the world's best to throw money at.


But how? The product still isn't good (maybe that will change by adding PGAT support, additional players, etc) and the team format is bad (hopefully they will improve it). It's still a money-losing venture if the format, venues, and players don't change.
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bthotugigem05
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8:00a, 6/8/23
AG
Probably anticipating the team structures will become more valuable over time so they're trying to get in on the ground level.
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PJYoung
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8:10a, 6/8/23
AG
Quote:
Says a LIV exec, "Now we can finally get Hideki [Matsuyama] and Jon Rahm. I would say every big name on the PGA Tour will get an offer. Except Rory. Nobody wants that little ***** on their team."
Um, that quote kind of discredits the whole article, especially when you read Jay's quotes from Tuesday about the future of LIV.

I personally think the LIV branding is going away next season to be replaced by some sort of elite division. Who knows about team golf but we will see.
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AggieDruggist89
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8:23a, 6/8/23
AG
This deal took place above Norman and Monahan.

It was between Yasir and Jimmy Dunne. Everyone else nothing more than pawns. We also have to remember moral standards and hypocrisy mean nothing to the elites and rule makers. While the masses cry foul of injustice, slave masters will continue to get richer.
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Bunk Moreland
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In reply to Mateo84 • 8:30a, 6/8/23
Quote:
But how? The product still isn't good (maybe that will change by adding PGAT support, additional players, etc) and the team format is bad (hopefully they will improve it). It's still a money-losing venture if the format, venues, and players don't change.

The product hasn't been bad if you actually watch the events. The moment they made peace with the PGAT all the sudden big brands and media outlets have engaged. Huh, so funny how that works if there wasn't collusion and it was all just supply and demand before.

I do agree they need to improve upon the team format but the actual golf was pretty good. There were some dramatic finishes even in its limited run so far. And it now has 2 of the reigning major winners on its circuit and a lot more recent winners too.
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JCA1
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In reply to Bunk Moreland • 8:47a, 6/8/23
AG
Bunk Moreland said:
Quote:
But how? The product still isn't good (maybe that will change by adding PGAT support, additional players, etc) and the team format is bad (hopefully they will improve it). It's still a money-losing venture if the format, venues, and players don't change.

The product hasn't been bad if you actually watch the events. The moment they made peace with the PGAT all the sudden big brands and media outlets have engaged. Huh, so funny how that works if there wasn't collusion and it was all just supply and demand before.

I do agree they need to improve upon the team format but the actual golf was pretty good. There were some dramatic finishes even in its limited run so far. And it now has 2 of the reigning major winners on its circuit and a lot more recent winners too.


Maybe. I'll believe it when I see it. All we know for sure is nobody was watching LIV before and LIV has a history of greatly exaggerating corporate interest in their product. I highly doubt their phones are ringing like they claim. I still think LIV folding is the favorite.
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_lefraud_
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In reply to JCA1 • 8:55a, 6/8/23
AG
Again, some of yall don't understand.

Since it was brought up, if OU softball was only on CW, "nobody" would watch that either.

There was collusion by all the networks, that's why LIV landed on CW. Once LIV is on ESPN or the likes, people will watch (just like they do OU Softball).
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DannyDuberstein
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In reply to _lefraud_ • 8:59a, 6/8/23
AG
That explains why no one watched when the entire season was free on Youtube and the downward trajectory in viewers as the season went on? That's a format that is extremely easy to watch in our massive cord cutting world now. That's the market they want, right? The younger demo. You want network to get the old-timers, but they didn't seem to want the old-timers and the old-timers don't seem interested anyway
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JP_Losman
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9:03a, 6/8/23
AG
LIV is done. Saudis want to put money into PGAT now.

There is no more ridiculous "LIV Tour"
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class of 03
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9:06a, 6/8/23
Get your High Flyers umbrellas while you can.
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Bunk Moreland
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In reply to DannyDuberstein • 9:14a, 6/8/23
Yes. Because olds do most of the every day, non-major golf watching and olds by and large don't go consume content on Youtube.com or a Youtube App or a rokutv etc. They are still very much cable and satellite subscribers where they have their favorite sports channels all bundled together so they can skim through the networks and the sports channels to find golf.

Nobody expects LIV to get the same ratings as the PGAT right off the bat but the ratings would have been a lot higher had they landed on ESPN, NBC, Golf Channel, CBS etc. You can all wish that wouldn't be the case but it absolutely would have been.
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MarathonAg12
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In reply to JP_Losman • 9:14a, 6/8/23
JP_Losman said:
LIV is done. Saudis want to put money into PGAT now.

There is no more ridiculous "LIV Tour"


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aggiebonzo
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In reply to MarathonAg12 • 9:19a, 6/8/23
AG
Lol this is why Twitter is the worst. I'm sure this loser running a fan account for LIV knows about the future of LIV. Freaking 3rd leg Greg didn't even know about the proposed merger until right before it was announced! Also it should be noted that the PGAT and LIV are not merging it's with the PIP which funds LIV among many other things.
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