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Budgeting Food/Takeout

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steve00
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In reply to strbrst777 • 6:54p, 9/28/23
AG
I am not onboard with this take.

Assuming a $5 coffee is purchased every single day of the year, that is only $1800. Making coffee at home isn't free, so maybe it costs $1 a day in beans and filters. Then there is startup costs for a coffee maker and maybe a grinder if you want better coffee. If you start buying better quality beans, you can easily go up to $2-3 per day on bean cost alone.

This is assuming regular coffee. If you want to make espresso drinks at home, the startup cost and daily cost is a whole lot more.

At the end of the day, you aren't going to materially change your financial position by saving maybe $1500 or less a year.

For the record, I make my coffee at home every day, either regular or espresso drinks, but it isn't to save money. It is for higher quality drinks than I could get at any coffee shop near me.

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Diggity
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In reply to steve00 • 8:57p, 9/28/23
AG
Good beans are like $.50 a serving. You don't use filters for espresso drinks. Drip coffee filters cost pennies if you go that route.

You can get a nice machine starting around $400 that will last years.

Sure, you can spend more on super gourmet coffee and a crazy high-end machine, but we're comparing this to Starbucks, so the setup I mentioned is more than fair.

There is really no debate that it's significantly cheaper to make coffee at home. Convenience factor is the only real argument for buying an espresso drink at Starbucks.
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steve00
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In reply to Diggity • 9:24p, 9/28/23
AG
I never said that making coffee at home is more expensive than buying coffee at Starbucks. I am arguing that the savings from making coffee at home aren't material.

You mentioned the $400 startup cost of a good coffee maker. It's another $150 for a decent grinder. That digs deep into the possible savings for the first year of making coffee at home. A person whose finances are hurt by $1800 a year of Starbucks coffee probably can't afford a $500 startup cost to make their own.

I don't know why you needed to say that filters aren't required for espresso drinks. Of course they aren't. The increased daily cost of espresso drinks is milk, along with bean waste as you are dialing in each new bag of beans.

And we clearly disagree on what good beans are.
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Diggity
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In reply to steve00 • 9:33p, 9/28/23
AG
I clearly disagree on pretty much everything you said.

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62strat
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In reply to Diggity • 9:34p, 9/28/23
AG
Diggity said:
I clearly disagree on pretty much everything you said.

I don't drink coffee so I'm saving all that money lol.

I don't understand coffee. It's an addiction that no one looks down upon.

My MIL can't do a Damn thing in the morning without her coffee. That's BS to me, you might as well be an alcoholic.
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Spaceship
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9:45p, 9/28/23
AG
The pettiness shown in this thread is impressive.
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steve00
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In reply to Spaceship • 9:54p, 9/28/23
AG
Fair. My last line was pretty petty. I think the rest of my post was pretty well reasoned.
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YouBet
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In reply to steve00 • 10:08p, 9/28/23
AG
steve00 said:
I am not onboard with this take.

Assuming a $5 coffee is purchased every single day of the year, that is only $1800. Making coffee at home isn't free, so maybe it costs $1 a day in beans and filters. Then there is startup costs for a coffee maker and maybe a grinder if you want better coffee. If you start buying better quality beans, you can easily go up to $2-3 per day on bean cost alone.

This is assuming regular coffee. If you want to make espresso drinks at home, the startup cost and daily cost is a whole lot more.

At the end of the day, you aren't going to materially change your financial position by saving maybe $1500 or less a year.

For the record, I make my coffee at home every day, either regular or espresso drinks, but it isn't to save money. It is for higher quality drinks than I could get at any coffee shop near me.



I will counter your take and say that $1,500 per year absolutely does matter. Fiscal responsibility is not just for material line items. If you have several $1,500 hits then it adds up.

That mentality is why we are in debt up to our eyeballs as a society and a country. Everyone waves off individual line items as not material because factored alone they may not be material. But accumulate several of them and all of a sudden it matters.

Why do you think most of America lives paycheck to paycheck? It's because they don't manage the small things either.
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ATM9000
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In reply to steve00 • 11:27p, 9/28/23
AG
steve00 said:
I never said that making coffee at home is more expensive than buying coffee at Starbucks. I am arguing that the savings from making coffee at home aren't material.

You mentioned the $400 startup cost of a good coffee maker. It's another $150 for a decent grinder. That digs deep into the possible savings for the first year of making coffee at home. A person whose finances are hurt by $1800 a year of Starbucks coffee probably can't afford a $500 startup cost to make their own.

I don't know why you needed to say that filters aren't required for espresso drinks. Of course they aren't. The increased daily cost of espresso drinks is milk, along with bean waste as you are dialing in each new bag of beans.

And we clearly disagree on what good beans are.

I appreciate that the center of both of your bases on this one is already at a fairly yuppy starting point of $0.50 coffee bean servings and $550 home coffee rig setups as if that is what it take to beat Starbucks.

$0.50 for coffee beans? Jeez… I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world, buy pretty nice coffee for myself at home and it probably costs me half of that.
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steve00
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In reply to ATM9000 • 11:58p, 9/28/23
AG
I agree that I am very extra about my coffee (among other things). I am not trying to compete with Starbucks though. I am trying to compete with the top third wave coffee shops in the country. I think I do pretty well.

COL where you live doesn't really matter, because good beans don't come from good places to live.

I don't know what beans you are buying that cost $0.25 a day, but I'm glad you enjoy them. To each their own.
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southernskies
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8:13a, 9/29/23
Why not teach yourself to only eat 2 meals a day? Boom - money and calories saved. Or if you're really feeling lucky, eat one meal a day. You'd be surprised at what you're capable of.
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Diggity
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In reply to ATM9000 • 8:19a, 9/29/23
AG
ATM9000 said:
steve00 said:
I never said that making coffee at home is more expensive than buying coffee at Starbucks. I am arguing that the savings from making coffee at home aren't material.

You mentioned the $400 startup cost of a good coffee maker. It's another $150 for a decent grinder. That digs deep into the possible savings for the first year of making coffee at home. A person whose finances are hurt by $1800 a year of Starbucks coffee probably can't afford a $500 startup cost to make their own.

I don't know why you needed to say that filters aren't required for espresso drinks. Of course they aren't. The increased daily cost of espresso drinks is milk, along with bean waste as you are dialing in each new bag of beans.

And we clearly disagree on what good beans are.

I appreciate that the center of both of your bases on this one is already at a fairly yuppy starting point of $0.50 coffee bean servings and $550 home coffee rig setups as if that is what it take to beat Starbucks.

$0.50 for coffee beans? Jeez… I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world, buy pretty nice coffee for myself at home and it probably costs me half of that.
fair enough. Can definitely be done much cheaper, but didn't want to lowball to prove the point that you're still saving real $$$ even with a "nice" setup. Throw in the fact that two people are likely to use the machine, and the payback becomes much quicker.

Apparently, my estimates are either way too high or way too low. Love TexAgs!
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10andBOUNCE
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In reply to steve00 • 8:50a, 9/29/23
AG
steve00 said:
I never said that making coffee at home is more expensive than buying coffee at Starbucks.

We can't skate past the fact that Starbucks is horrible coffee. You can buy a fairly cheap coffee setup with decent beans that would easily bypass Starbucks quality.
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Medaggie
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10:09a, 9/29/23
We used to go to starbucks all the time, not daily but prob spent a good amount of money. We bought a 1K coffee/espresso machine with built in grinder. Taste just as good, fraction of the cost, more convenient. Convenience is the big part b/c we can make it and go in 1 minute.

Where I am at, time/experience/being present is more valuable than money. The days of spending an hr to find the best deal to save $20 is a no go. No more shopping during tax free days. No more clipping coupons unless it is next to the item. No more price matching. Almost never go to walmart to save a few bucks.

At least for our household, I have learned that it is easier to increase income than budget. I know many can't do this but I work 6 dys a month and I have plenty of time to work more if I want.
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strbrst777
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In reply to steve00 • 10:18a, 9/29/23
steve00 said:
I am not onboard with this take.

Assuming a $5 coffee is purchased every single day of the year, that is only $1800. Making coffee at home isn't free, so maybe it costs $1 a day in beans and filters. Then there is startup costs for a coffee maker and maybe a grinder if you want better coffee. If you start buying better quality beans, you can easily go up to $2-3 per day on bean cost alone.

This is assuming regular coffee. If you want to make espresso drinks at home, the startup cost and daily cost is a whole lot more.

At the end of the day, you aren't going to materially change your financial position by saving maybe $1500 or less a year.

For the record, I make my coffee at home every day, either regular or espresso drinks, but it isn't to save money. It is for higher quality drinks than I could get at any coffee shop near me.____________________________
"Only $1800 a year"? (That's about $2500 of typical salary.) Invest that $150 per month and see what happens long term. I do not make my coffee to save money, although I do. I buy ground coffee in bags or cans. My coffee cost is about 20 cents per cup, if that. I have perfectly good maker. Spend your money where and as you please. I like my coffee at home...and I don't have to take a drive to get it. Spend your money where and as you please.
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YouBet
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12:24p, 9/29/23
AG
On the subject of coffee since we are all riled up about it, we had a Keurig and then a Nespresso. Nespresso is now $2 / pod.

We then bought a Ninja drip maker after using one on vacation and realized we like that better. So we have abandoned the Nespresso but kept the Keurig because it's cheap to have.

I'm not sure what we are saving yet because I haven't done the math but drip coffee is better than either of those (not that we didn't already know that).
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ATM9000
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In reply to Diggity • 4:21a, 9/30/23
AG
Diggity said:
ATM9000 said:
steve00 said:
I never said that making coffee at home is more expensive than buying coffee at Starbucks. I am arguing that the savings from making coffee at home aren't material.

You mentioned the $400 startup cost of a good coffee maker. It's another $150 for a decent grinder. That digs deep into the possible savings for the first year of making coffee at home. A person whose finances are hurt by $1800 a year of Starbucks coffee probably can't afford a $500 startup cost to make their own.

I don't know why you needed to say that filters aren't required for espresso drinks. Of course they aren't. The increased daily cost of espresso drinks is milk, along with bean waste as you are dialing in each new bag of beans.

And we clearly disagree on what good beans are.

I appreciate that the center of both of your bases on this one is already at a fairly yuppy starting point of $0.50 coffee bean servings and $550 home coffee rig setups as if that is what it take to beat Starbucks.

$0.50 for coffee beans? Jeez… I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world, buy pretty nice coffee for myself at home and it probably costs me half of that.
fair enough. Can definitely be done much cheaper, but didn't want to lowball to prove the point that you're still saving real $$$ even with a "nice" setup. Throw in the fact that two people are likely to use the machine, and the payback becomes much quicker.

Apparently, my estimates are either way too high or way too low. Love TexAgs!

I'm busting chops a little bit here. I find justifications and obfuscations people make in spending habits weird in general because it's usually just an exercise of creatively being dishonest with yourself. In the case above, of course making coffee at home is going to save money (and probably significant) in the long run. If it didn't, there would be no economic rent in coffee shops existing. I recall years ago debating some guy on here who INSISTED car leasing was cheaper in the long run… but there's just no way that can be reality. Somebody is holding the bag on the asset value of a new car and it isn't you? You have to be paying for that somehow. I'm not knocking leasing a car either… like I wouldn't do it, but just be honest about it: if you lease a car, it isn't to save money… it's because you like driving a new car.

The reality here is somebody who would spend $5 a day on quality coffee in a top end coffee shop probably also has a $500 rig to make coffee at home. It isn't an A or B choice. The choice is A and B because that person has decided they love high quality coffee. And weirdly, that's probably optimal for that person. They get loads of utility for the dollars they've spent and don't waste money on cups of coffee from McDonalds or Starbucks that give them no satisfaction.

Budgeting is all choices… I've always held it that if you want to do it successfully, you have to figure out how to be honest with yourself because then it makes those choices clearer. List what you indulge in, be clear why and it gets easier to understand where you get the most satisfaction for your money. When you start throwing weird hoops in around it saves you time to get fast food or whatever, it makes choosing what you spend on far more complicated than it needs to be.
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YouBet
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In reply to ATM9000 • 6:25a, 9/30/23
AG
I've been in those leasing arguments as well. Always loved the mental gymnastics with that one.
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EliteZags
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In reply to 62strat • 5:01p, 10/4/23
AG
62strat said:
speak of the devil, I just got a notification from door dash, save 45% off delivery order from petco (the dogs gotta eat too!)

Boom, getting their normal food, purina pro plan delivered, w/tip, cheaper than going to store.


learn to use SlickDeals for this stuff

https://slickdeals.net/f/16956808-petsmart-purina-pro-plan-dog-and-cat-food-autoship-50-off-20-off-example-47lb-bag-33-11-with-shipping-and-tax?src=SiteSearch


I recently got 30lbs Blue Buffalo for $11 delivered

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ATM9000
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12:49a, 10/5/23
AG
I'll eat some crow on the $0.50 coffee beans. I went to go buy some yesterday and paid more attention. With currency conversion etc., $0.50 is about right for the good beans.
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62strat
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In reply to ATM9000 • 8:34a, 10/5/23
AG
ATM9000 said:
I'll eat some crow on the $0.50 coffee beans. I went to go buy some yesterday and paid more attention. With currency conversion etc., $0.50 is about right for the good beans.
currency conversion, are you paying some dude on a goat in Colombian pesos or something?
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JSKolache
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9:17p, 10/7/23
AG
Why are we talking about coffee? Anyway, 1800 saved in a roth each year from age 22 to age 29 will be worth more when you retire than maxing from age 55 to 65. You wanna go to starbucks every now and then? Ok, but not every day. I clued in waaaaay too late that the best money you can ever save and invest is the chump change from your first job or 2 right after you graduate. That stuff compounds massively. Save the 1800 and buy whatever you want later in life.
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TheMasterplan
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8:04a, 10/8/23
This is a good thread.

What doesn't get mentioned for easy budgeting is just doling out percentage allocations for everything and auto transfer to accounts appropriately for savings, retirement, leisure, holiday and daily expenses.

Among the daily expenses category is where you would be finicky with the food though.

I'll be buying my own place soon so the tips around food will be helpful. The freezing idea sounds good but can you thaw meatballs the night of?
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jh0400
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In reply to 62strat • 8:57a, 10/8/23
AG
62strat said:
ATM9000 said:
I'll eat some crow on the $0.50 coffee beans. I went to go buy some yesterday and paid more attention. With currency conversion etc., $0.50 is about right for the good beans.
currency conversion, are you paying some dude on a goat in Colombian pesos or something?


We use Blue Bottle beans on the weekend and it works out to around $5 per pot.
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Ghost of Bisbee
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2:22a, 10/30/23
AG
Well, the results are in for October for us two DINKs

$796 on groceries & household cleaning supplies

$300 on takeout/restaurants

That's about $600 better than our average monthly expenses on food (excluding cleaning supplies), all in HCOL area

Appreciate the tips in the thread.
The fridge magnet dry erase boards I discussed earlier in the thread helped us with our accountability. Steps in the right direction, for sure
-Ben There/R.C.
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Anastasia Beaverhaven
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In reply to Ghost of Bisbee • 8:48a, 10/30/23
Ghost of Bisbee said:
Well, the results are in for October for us two DINKs

$796 on groceries & household cleaning supplies

$300 on takeout/restaurants

That's about $600 better than our average monthly expenses on food (excluding cleaning supplies), all in HCOL area

Appreciate the tips in the thread.
The fridge magnet dry erase boards I discussed earlier in the thread helped us with our accountability. Steps in the right direction, for sure
Nice job!
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WestHoustonAg79
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In reply to BenTheGoodAg • 3:52p, 10/30/23
BenTheGoodAg said:
Single income, 5 kids.

$1200 a month on food. We don't eat out. At all.


Yall sound like a fun family…..

Joking aside. This thread is one of a few that make me feel I don't like any kind of normal suburban dad/fam life.

I'm 1099 income and with the cyclical nature of my work I can't really "budget" in the sense of ok we're garaunteed x coming in so let's try hard to keep it to Y on costs and we'll be in a good shape if we stick with the game plan.

Been in the industry long enough (not super long) but enough to know what I'm expecting and just try to keep the CC bill between the buoys.

Been working out thus far and just moved to potential forever home and feel ok in savings (most sizable dry powder is in sidecar deals).


I'm sure some posters here will come and say the book says I'm doing it wrong but it's hard to run a clean budget with the way our family brings in income.

Also to note regarding my thoughts- I don't buy "toys" or any nice material things (all Costco type TVs, buy artic over yeti, green mountain grill over traeger etc). But I do like to spend our hard earned income on eating, drinking, and traveling well (to a degree obvi)
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WestHoustonAg79
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In reply to ATM9000 • 4:01p, 10/30/23
ATM9000 said:
Diggity said:
ATM9000 said:
steve00 said:
I never said that making coffee at home is more expensive than buying coffee at Starbucks. I am arguing that the savings from making coffee at home aren't material.

You mentioned the $400 startup cost of a good coffee maker. It's another $150 for a decent grinder. That digs deep into the possible savings for the first year of making coffee at home. A person whose finances are hurt by $1800 a year of Starbucks coffee probably can't afford a $500 startup cost to make their own.

I don't know why you needed to say that filters aren't required for espresso drinks. Of course they aren't. The increased daily cost of espresso drinks is milk, along with bean waste as you are dialing in each new bag of beans.

And we clearly disagree on what good beans are.

I appreciate that the center of both of your bases on this one is already at a fairly yuppy starting point of $0.50 coffee bean servings and $550 home coffee rig setups as if that is what it take to beat Starbucks.

$0.50 for coffee beans? Jeez… I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world, buy pretty nice coffee for myself at home and it probably costs me half of that.
fair enough. Can definitely be done much cheaper, but didn't want to lowball to prove the point that you're still saving real $$$ even with a "nice" setup. Throw in the fact that two people are likely to use the machine, and the payback becomes much quicker.

Apparently, my estimates are either way too high or way too low. Love TexAgs!

I'm busting chops a little bit here. I find justifications and obfuscations people make in spending habits weird in general because it's usually just an exercise of creatively being dishonest with yourself. In the case above, of course making coffee at home is going to save money (and probably significant) in the long run. If it didn't, there would be no economic rent in coffee shops existing. I recall years ago debating some guy on here who INSISTED car leasing was cheaper in the long run… but there's just no way that can be reality. Somebody is holding the bag on the asset value of a new car and it isn't you? You have to be paying for that somehow. I'm not knocking leasing a car either… like I wouldn't do it, but just be honest about it: if you lease a car, it isn't to save money… it's because you like driving a new car.

The reality here is somebody who would spend $5 a day on quality coffee in a top end coffee shop probably also has a $500 rig to make coffee at home. It isn't an A or B choice. The choice is A and B because that person has decided they love high quality coffee. And weirdly, that's probably optimal for that person. They get loads of utility for the dollars they've spent and don't waste money on cups of coffee from McDonalds or Starbucks that give them no satisfaction.

Budgeting is all choices… I've always held it that if you want to do it successfully, you have to figure out how to be honest with yourself because then it makes those choices clearer. List what you indulge in, be clear why and it gets easier to understand where you get the most satisfaction for your money. When you start throwing weird hoops in around it saves you time to get fast food or whatever, it makes choosing what you spend on far more complicated than it needs to be.


I agree with most of your points here sir. And as a high level general statement your car leasing comment is pretty fair. But I will say there are scenarios with families where leasing absolutely makes the most sense. I am and will likely be a forever in the future "buy cash and run the vehicle to the ground" type guy.

But in my current biz situation and what I have set up over the last 2-3 years, structurally from a tax perspective, I am saving and/or writing off a TON by leasing and will prob do so (with advice from my tax guy) until my work situation changes.
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Carlo4
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4:37p, 10/30/23
AG
Live off the land like Eagleton Ron Dunn.

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cmk10
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4:59p, 10/30/23
AG
What's the financial term to when you get a raise, but then the newness of that wears off and you compare yourself to the next bracket up again and again?
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RockOn
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In reply to cmk10 • 6:00p, 10/30/23
cmk10 said:
What's the financial term to when you get a raise, but then the newness of that wears off and you compare yourself to the next bracket up again and again?
hedonic treadmill
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cmk10
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In reply to RockOn • 6:09p, 10/30/23
AG
That's it. Couldn't remember. Thanks.
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Ghost of Bisbee
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12:52a, 11/27/23
AG
2nd month staying within $800/month for groceries/home cleaning/toiletries in HCOL area between me and spouse without feeling too constrained.. Spending about $300 on takeout in addition. $600-$700 monthly improvement. I'll take it!

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WestHoustonAg79
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In reply to 10andBOUNCE • 4:54p, 11/27/23
10andBOUNCE said:
I keep a detailed budget daily and through August we were at $430 for the year. I guess that will get us closer to $700 for the year. We're home a lot obviously. I think the biggest tab was $55 at Ninfas on Navigation before a baseball game. That was just for me and my son.

If we wanna do dinner with friends or family we just throw steaks on the grill or something here. It's cheaper and more comfortable for everyone. We also live in a small town so going out to eat would involve driving 45 minutes to Fort Worth. We are going to see Nate Bargatze in October so we may splurge for dinner out then


I just don't understand this. At some point you have to draw the line if being fiscally responsible for your family and what is just absurdly over the top. What are you penny pinching for now that you want to do or have in the future?

I don't buy nice "toys" or any big ticket items except when I absolutely have to (new vehicle I'll drive till it's costing too much to fix often etc). But I do like to eat well/drink well/travel well and am happy to throw down for a great experience for my family. What else are we grinding our asses off for?
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Chipotlemonger
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In reply to steve00 • 5:08p, 11/27/23
AG
steve00 said:

Hilarious that anyone would try to pretend that any city in TX is HCOL. It is just objectively not close to true.
Yea I can't get over HCOL being thrown around continuously here, for Dallas I believe. Might as well add these HCOL mentions to something that makes me irrationally mad.
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