ChoppinDs40 said:

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I live 30 minutes outside dallas proper. For example, gas is at least 10% higher. Maybe 15%. Housing way more. Dallas proper is getting way above $350/sqft for modest house.

Property taxes are 2.5% total value.

Just interesting to have people who don't live in dallas definitively say it isn't HCOL.

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the calculations aren't based on the downtown area or proper. It's the metro.

and no way dallas is $350... link?

this says $240
https://www.redfin.com/city/30794/TX/Dallas/housing-market

this says low $200s
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEDLISPRIPERSQUFEE19100

Denver is mid $300s if I had to guess, then your upper tier HCOLs are $400+

US fuel average right now is $3.80. Dallas avg is $3.32

For ****s and giggles, I just looked at menu pricing of Eddie Vs, in Denver, houston and dallas. (totally random selection)
In denver, nearly every menu item I looked at is $2 more than dallas.
In houston, every menu item is $1 more than dallas.

So dallas is the cheapest of the 3. The san diego location is all $1 more than Denver.

ChoppinDs40 said:

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I live 30 minutes outside dallas proper. For example, gas is at least 10% higher. Maybe 15%. Housing way more. Dallas proper is getting way above $350/sqft for modest house.

Property taxes are 2.5% total value.

Just interesting to have people who don't live in dallas definitively say it isn't HCOL.

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you don't need to live in Dallas to look up COL charts

ChoppinDs40 said:

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I live 30 minutes outside dallas proper. For example, gas is at least 10% higher. Maybe 15%. Housing way more. Dallas proper is getting way above $350/sqft for modest house.

Property taxes are 2.5% total value.

Just interesting to have people who don't live in dallas definitively say it isn't HCOL.

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You're assuming I haven't lived in Dallas before and have my own personal direct comparison I can make, on top of the COL calculators all over the place.

I think the biggest point is, choosing to dine out and order a few drinks is going to be pricey no matter where you live.

Chipotlemonger said:

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I think the biggest point is, choosing to dine out and order a few drinks is going to be pricey no matter where you live.

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but just like anything, you can save quite a bit if you are thrifty about it and seek out the good happy hours/deals.

It's been a while, but the brewery we like by our house used to do a deal on tuesdays, buy two pints, get a free cheese pizza (which is about $12)

We'd each get 2 beers, so two free pizzas. 1 for kids, 1 for us. Technically we could get out of there for $35 or so after tip, but we usually added toppings, and I'd tip well so it was more like ~$50.
We did that once a month for about a year, then they stopped it.

shrug. There's nowhere in Dallas you'd want to live for $240/sqft. I think your point about Eddie V's menu being right there at Denver and San Diego kind of proves my point?

Denver's transplant influx has made that metro area go crazy with COL... San Diego is definitely the model for high COL.

Anyways, this has gotten way off topic. Time to unsubscribe.

ChoppinDs40 said:

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shrug. There's nowhere in Dallas you'd want to live for $240/sqft. I think your point about Eddie V's menu being right there at Denver and San Diego kind of proves my point?

Denver's transplant influx has made that metro area go crazy with COL... San Diego is definitely the model for high COL.

Anyways, this has gotten way off topic. Time to unsubscribe.

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You're choosing to ignore data. Excluding the low end of the market in Dallas (cheaper places to live) and not doing the same in markets you compare to.

ChoppinDs40 said:

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shrug. There's nowhere in Dallas you'd want to live for $240/sqft. I think your point about Eddie V's menu being right there at Denver and San Diego kind of proves my point?

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lol, as said above, this makes zero sense. I could just as easily take away the dumps in Denver, and now the 'mean' is $500/sf. Or take the dumps out of SF and your average is $2000/sf. No matter how you want to compare dallas to an actual HCOL city, it's not going to work out in your favor.

$240 is the mean cost of a house in the Dallas metro. It doesn't matter if it's where you want to live, the COL index is not based on YOU and your desires/needs. It is the middle of the road. If your salary is the middle of the road, then that is where you are living. If your salary is 40% higher, then you adjust. If it's half, then you adjust and you are slumming it.


$2 difference (between denver/dallas) is 5-10% difference in cost for the same food items. I don't know how that can't be clear. Dallas is cheaper than Houston in this specific example.
Then you take the lower Denver wage compared to Dallas, and it's a further gap.

This thread is both depressing and hilarious to me.

Hilarious that anyone would try to pretend that any city in TX is HCOL. It is just objectively not close to true.

Depressing thinking about how hard some people work on their food budgets. Everyone has their own thing, but I couldn't live like that. I never look at prices in the grocery store and I would never get a water at a restaurant to save money over a beer or wine. I would be the worst Price is Right contestant ever, as I have no idea how much standard grocery items cost.

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Depressing thinking about how hard some people work on their food budgets.

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it wears me out reading stories of eating cereal for meals, PBJ 5 days per week, ramen noodles, one casserole using leftovers the whole week. Some people have to/need to/want to do that in order to keep their finances under control, so I get it. That's living within your means, by definition.

Recall the scene in Pursuit of Happyness where after dinner, the mom pours everyone's juice back into the jug at the table so it wouldn't go to waste. That is how it is for some. Others don't look at prices and get whatever they want. It's their choice.

I don't think becoming a hunter to kill deer so you get a ton of meat because it is cheaper is really saving any money, given the time, effort and expense of hunting.

In order to buy bulk, and freeze a lot - you have to have the space and another freezer in some cases - those things cost money too. We don't buy bulk because we do not have the space, but we buy at the start of the week for planned dinner menus and school lunches, and by Fri afternoon our fridge is empty.

I suppose I should have added that I arrange my life in a way that food and drinks can be my largest expense without it being problematic.

I don't have kids or a boat or season tickets or any number of other things that people may choose to prioritize in their life. Because of this, my budget efforts are pretty chill even though I am not wealthy.

E said:

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My wife and I are in the same boat. Recently did an analysis of our spending and we were in the $1,500-1,600/month range in food/groceries/restaurants. Shocked at how much it is!

We also have never really budgeted but have alwayw lived within our means when it comes to home, auto, living costs... outisde food of course. We are fortunate to be able to put away alot in savings every month so the high food costs doesnt sting too much.

Also if you are dual income, no kids, and only a small dog you are called DILDO's... Dual Income Little Dogs Only

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I don't know hoe this doesn't have a zillion stars

steve00 said:

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I suppose I should have added that I arrange my life in a way that food and drinks can be my largest expense without it being problematic.

I don't have kids or a boat or season tickets or any number of other things that people may choose to prioritize in their life. Because of this, my budget efforts are pretty chill even though I am not wealthy.

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This is our approach. I don't really have any hobbies outside of travel, so I tend to overspend on things like dining out. I also have been on a watch buying kick lately, but I tell myself those are just alternative assets.

CapCity12thMan said:

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Quote:

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Depressing thinking about how hard some people work on their food budgets.

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it wears me out reading stories of eating cereal for meals, PBJ 5 days per week, ramen noodles, one casserole using leftovers the whole week. Some people have to/need to/want to do that in order to keep their finances under control, so I get it. That's living.

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I'm gonna put it out there, but my hh income is over $200k (and don't live on a coast), and it's not unusual for my kids to eat pbj for dinner, or wife and I eat leftover spaghetti or casserole for 3 days, or us eat a bowl of cereal, or me eat a plain ham sandwich or can of soup for lunch. At the same time I habitually buy groceries pretty much only if they are on sale.

It has nothing to do with cost as we can clearly afford to eat out 3-4 times a week and eat steaks at home. we are just frugal and food isn't as important as other things. I'll drink a $15 single beer at home without batting an eye, because I like beer, and I have probably $20k worth of guitars and drums in my basement.
We also take a lot of vacations.

Everyone blows money on different stuff. For some it's food. Not us.


Let me take it to another level;
My mother in law and her husband of ~30 years; he's a high level engineer for defense work. He makes a ton of money. My mother in law, I **** you not, has eaten a bowl of cereal for breakfast and a lean cuisine for lunch everyday for the 20 years I've known her. She's in her early 70s now.

And they've never travelled. So they must have a big stack of money in a bank somewhere. She grew up in west Kansas poor, and sometimes people never change; she's frugal as hell.

Sorry going on a tangent here. Lots of people just eat food to survive. Not everyone is a foodie.

jh0400 said:

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steve00 said:

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I suppose I should have added that I arrange my life in a way that food and drinks can be my largest expense without it being problematic.

I don't have kids or a boat or season tickets or any number of other things that people may choose to prioritize in their life. Because of this, my budget efforts are pretty chill even though I am not wealthy.

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This is our approach. I don't really have any hobbies outside of travel, so I tend to overspend on things like dining out. I also have been on a watch buying kick lately, but I tell myself those are just alternative assets.

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As DINKs, my budget process was reverse.....in that I made sure all savings goals were met first (fixed bill expenses were a given). Anything left over was discretionary and got spent however it got spent. Didn't care at that point and only loosely tracked it. As a result, we spent a ton of money on food and drink.

Now, as OINKs, we track all of it a little more closely. We've also been on an expense cutting rampage since 2021. Covid dramatically changed our life but that's another thread.

I'm glad I stumbled on this topic. It's great getting these tips from everyone, so thanks all. Probably repetitive, but some tips that personally work for me.

Always order water if you go IN to a restaurant. If you pick something up, tell the kids (I have 2) to get a drink from home.

NEVER use food delivery services. Get up and go get it yourself. I got extremely busy working the other day and my wife DoorDashed me lunch. It was a $11 lunch that cost me $25. Same goes with pizza. I can get 2 large pizzas from Domino's for $16 if I go get it. If it gets delivered, you get taxed, pay a delivery fee and then on the hook for a tip. Turns into $25-$30.

Get apps for any restaurant you may go to. Always better deals and free stuff.

If you're a steak lover but on a budget, ask the butcher for a chuck eye steak. It's literally the cut that borders a ribeye and tastes the exact same. I can get them in Arkansas anywhere from $8.49/lb to $10.99/lb versus $20/lb ribeyes.

Scour the meat section. If I'm needing ground beef, I look at all the tags. You'd be shocked at how much mismarking there is. Small packs of ground chuck will sometimes have discounted family pack prices per pound instead. I've found strip steaks with sirloin prices. Yes, it's a bit much but I enjoy having all the money I earn.

If you wanna treat the kids to ice cream out, get it from McDonald's or Braum's. We can get ice cream for 4 at Braum's for $9 vs $30 if we go to Coldstone or Andy's.

Just a few tips that save me money!

steve00 said:

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This thread is both depressing and hilarious to me.

Hilarious that anyone would try to pretend that any city in TX is HCOL. It is just objectively not close to true.

Depressing thinking about how hard some people work on their food budgets. Everyone has their own thing, but I couldn't live like that. I never look at prices in the grocery store and I would never get a water at a restaurant to save money over a beer or wine. I would be the worst Price is Right contestant ever, as I have no idea how much standard grocery items cost.

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I watched my parents and grandparent pinch pennies growing up, so it's engrained in me. I can't imagine blindly buying things without a price comparison. Same with my in-laws. They grew up the same way and still pinch pennies to this day...and they're worth millions. They've just always done it and always will. I'm just like them, minus the millions thing!

What's your time worth? For us spending $15 more to not have to waste 30 minutes driving to and from a restaurant for a pickup is worth it to me.

My wife and I are foodies. I really enjoy cooking a solid meal at home every night. It is something I look forward to every day. That said, we probably average 1-2 restaurant meals a quarter. It just doesn't make sense for us to go out to eat when I believe I can make a better meal in my own kitchen.

Every Wednesday HEB drops their weekly sale. Our proteins come directly off that sale sheet. Last week, they had fresh shrimp at $4/lb. This week we ate Shrimp Orzo, Mexican Style Shrimp bowls and Shrimp etoufee. If they have brisket on sale I will smoke a brisket on the weekend and we will eat sliced brisket, chopped beef sandwiches, brisket mac and cheese, brisket nachos, etc.

Even using this method our weekly grocery bill ranges from $200-$300 for a family of 4. I don't mind it one bit.

htxag09 said:

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jh0400 said:

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What's your time worth? For us spending $15 more to not have to waste 30 minutes driving to and from a restaurant for a pickup is worth it to me.

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I feel like this argument gets tossed around way too much.

Is it true sometimes? Absolutely.

But chances are on that random Wednesday evening when we don't feel like cooking I'll just be sitting on the couch or in the backyard with my son. Not like my time is worth a whole lot in that scenario. I can take him with me and still get quality time while giving my wife time to decompress. Or leave him at home and the 15 minutes in the car gives me time to decompress.

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Absolutely this.

honestly the only times I even consider third party delivery is when we don't have anything for dinner and I've already had 3-4 drinks lol.

So there is no 'just go and pick it up to save the $15.' A DUI costs a lot more than that!

Often when this happens, I get on the app, put stuff in the cart and balk at the price, so instead we rummage in fridge/pantry for food lol. I stick pretty strong to the 'only use it when it's heavily discounted' mantra.


On a related note, my neighbors who do third party delivery probably twice a week, she always asks me 'how come you always get these half off deals I never get them'

I swear the answer is in what I just told you; I often (well, maybe twice a month) get on the app and fill a cart with an order, only to not compete the order. It's my belief that this type of activity triggers the promo deals.

Shallowminded14 said:

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My wife and I are foodies. I really enjoy cooking a solid meal at home every night. It is something I look forward to every day. That said, we probably average 1-2 restaurant meals a quarter. It just doesn't make sense for us to go out to eat when I believe I can make a better meal in my own kitchen.

Every Wednesday HEB drops their weekly sale. Our proteins come directly off that sale sheet. Last week, they had fresh shrimp at $4/lb. This week we ate Shrimp Orzo, Mexican Style Shrimp bowls and Shrimp etoufee. If they have brisket on sale I will smoke a brisket on the weekend and we will eat sliced brisket, chopped beef sandwiches, brisket mac and cheese, brisket nachos, etc.

Even using this method our weekly grocery bill ranges from $200-$300 for a family of 4. I don't mind it one bit.

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This is impressive and incredible. I sometimes have restaurant meals twice a day. Lol. Part of this is a function of living in a large city and I'm working my ass off and don't have time for anything else.

Having said that, we are moving out of the big city next week and cooking will become a much larger part of our lives which I'm looking forward to because my wife is an excellent cook.

speak of the devil, I just got a notification from door dash, save 45% off delivery order from petco (the dogs gotta eat too!)

Boom, getting their normal food, purina pro plan delivered, w/tip, cheaper than going to store.

htxag09 said:

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jh0400 said:

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What's your time worth? For us spending $15 more to not have to waste 30 minutes driving to and from a restaurant for a pickup is worth it to me.

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I feel like this argument gets tossed around way too much.

Is it true sometimes? Absolutely.

But chances are on that random Wednesday evening when we don't feel like cooking I'll just be sitting on the couch or in the backyard with my son. Not like my time is worth a whole lot in that scenario. I can take him with me and still get quality time while giving my wife time to decompress. Or leave him at home and the 15 minutes in the car gives me time to decompress.

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We plan all of our weeknight meals in advance so there is nothing to decide. We will either order delivery or go out to eat a few times every weekend, and I'm glad to pay for delivery if it means I get a day when I don't have to leave home. I do pack breakfast every day to eat after the gym. I'm also fortunate that my position at work comes with a company-paid DoorDash account for lunch, so I order out three or four times a week on their dime.

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I'm also fortunate that my position at work comes with a company-paid DoorDash account for lunch, so I order out three or four times a week on their dime.

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I don't have to pay for work lunches either, but I still don't join a group very often (they go out to restaurants). Too many calories. And I'm only in the office 7-8 hours total, so at least if I had to justify it, I eat at my desk in 15 min.


I splurge maybe once a month when they do BBQ or mexican. But if I did that every day like some of these guys, I have no doubt my weight would creep up slowly. I'd rather skip all those lunch calories and drink beer lol.

YouBet said:

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Shallowminded14 said:

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My wife and I are foodies. I really enjoy cooking a solid meal at home every night. It is something I look forward to every day. That said, we probably average 1-2 restaurant meals a quarter. It just doesn't make sense for us to go out to eat when I believe I can make a better meal in my own kitchen.

Every Wednesday HEB drops their weekly sale. Our proteins come directly off that sale sheet. Last week, they had fresh shrimp at $4/lb. This week we ate Shrimp Orzo, Mexican Style Shrimp bowls and Shrimp etoufee. If they have brisket on sale I will smoke a brisket on the weekend and we will eat sliced brisket, chopped beef sandwiches, brisket mac and cheese, brisket nachos, etc.

Even using this method our weekly grocery bill ranges from $200-$300 for a family of 4. I don't mind it one bit.

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This is impressive and incredible. I sometimes have restaurant meals twice a day. Lol. Part of this is a function of living in a large city and I'm working my ass off and don't have time for anything else.

Having said that, we are moving out of the big city next week and cooking will become a much larger part of our lives which I'm looking forward to because my wife is an excellent cook.

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I hope you're a good dish washer if she's the cook!

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I was 1st Gen who grew up way poorer than most who you would define as poverty in America. I think I went to Mcdonald's Once before college and it was for a school field trip thinking, "this is how the rich lives". Never had a pretzel during school like the other "rich" kids b/c we didn't have the 10 cents to pay for it.

Throughout Med school, ate Totinos (25Cents back in the day) for dinner and only ate half to save the other half for the next day. So some days, I only spent 50 cents on food.

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In college, my wife (who paid her way 100%, bach and masters) had a $20/week budget for food. This is 98-02, a year before we met.
She stuck to it.. baloney/bread, ramen, soup, 99c cheeseburger if she 'ate out'. That was about it for several years.

She still very much has that mentality today. She usually has feeling of regret when we (rarely) spend $100 on just us two.

Maximus Johnson said:

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YouBet said:

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Shallowminded14 said:

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My wife and I are foodies. I really enjoy cooking a solid meal at home every night. It is something I look forward to every day. That said, we probably average 1-2 restaurant meals a quarter. It just doesn't make sense for us to go out to eat when I believe I can make a better meal in my own kitchen.

Every Wednesday HEB drops their weekly sale. Our proteins come directly off that sale sheet. Last week, they had fresh shrimp at $4/lb. This week we ate Shrimp Orzo, Mexican Style Shrimp bowls and Shrimp etoufee. If they have brisket on sale I will smoke a brisket on the weekend and we will eat sliced brisket, chopped beef sandwiches, brisket mac and cheese, brisket nachos, etc.

Even using this method our weekly grocery bill ranges from $200-$300 for a family of 4. I don't mind it one bit.

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This is impressive and incredible. I sometimes have restaurant meals twice a day. Lol. Part of this is a function of living in a large city and I'm working my ass off and don't have time for anything else.

Having said that, we are moving out of the big city next week and cooking will become a much larger part of our lives which I'm looking forward to because my wife is an excellent cook.

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I hope you're a good dish washer if she's the cook!

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She actually does all of that. Our separation of duties are that she handles everything inside the walls that isn't tech or bug killing related and I handle everything outside the walls.

My post is not about affordability or denying myself; it is about preference, mindset and life experience. I daily drink three cups of coffee (Community, Uban, etc.) and make my own. I do not understand the daily habit of $50+ Starbucks coffee...same with $100+ burgers. Those are numbers that are easily attainable long-term if the $5 or $10 is invested in good stocks. Do with your money according to what is important to you.