***** 2023 Houston Astros Season Thread *****

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Yoda
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11:17a, 9/29/23
AG
In a scenario where we actually have all our best hitters in, how would you feel about playing Dubon at SS over Pena? My trust in Doobie coming thru with a big hit is higher these days than with last year's World Series MVP.

Is that crazy?
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Farmer1906
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In reply to texasaggie2015 • 11:18a, 9/29/23
AG
From my understanding, Espada is the guy running the spring training, prep before games, etc. The way we prepare is very well regarded.
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AggiEE
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In reply to Yoda • 11:20a, 9/29/23
Yoda said:
In a scenario where we actually have all our best hitters in, how would you feel about playing Dubon at SS over Pena? My trust in Doobie coming thru with a big hit is higher these days than with last year's World Series MVP.

Is that crazy?


I trust Pena more at SS, I don't think the bat is a game changer upgrade
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Farmer1906
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In reply to Yoda • 11:26a, 9/29/23
AG
Yoda said:
In a scenario where we actually have all our best hitters in, how would you feel about playing Dubon at SS over Pena? My trust in Doobie coming thru with a big hit is higher these days than with last year's World Series MVP.

Is that crazy?
Crazy? Not at all.

But there is a fairly significant difference between Doobie & Pena on defense at SS.

Is the offensive difference worth it?

2023 Season (Pena v Dubon)
96 v 98 wRC+
-2.27 v 1.08 RE24
0.32 v 0.28 BB/K
87.9 v 87.0 EV
5.3 v 9.5 LA
34.8% v 29.7% HH%
.300 v.303 xwOBA

Last 30 Days (Pena v Dubon)
96 v 138 wRC+
-0.10 v 4.50 RE24
0.18 v 0.30 BB/K
87.8 v 86.3 EV
8.2 v 12.3 LA
27.5% v 28.8% HH%

If we think the hot hand will continue, it might be worth the risk. If we think they'll play how they normally play, then I would lean no. Seeing how little Doobie has played SS lately and just knowing Dusty, I highly doubt it happens or is even considered.
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AggiEE
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11:32a, 9/29/23
May be worth having Pena and Dubon compete over SS next year though, unless Pena starts improving offensively
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MosesHallRAB04
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In reply to AggiEE • 11:36a, 9/29/23
AG
AggiEE said:
May be worth having Pena and Dubon compete over SS next year though, unless Pena starts improving offensively


Not likely. Dubon is a great utility guy. Peña has hit lately just not homers. He's had some double but lots of singles. They don't need him to hit 30 hrs as he's not a 3-4-5 hitter.
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JYDog90
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11:42a, 9/29/23
AG
I don't think Peña has hit a ball over a player's head in a month
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MosesHallRAB04
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In reply to JYDog90 • 11:48a, 9/29/23
AG
Willy Wonka said:
I don't think Peña has hit a ball over a player's head in a month


He's got a decent amount of doubles. At least I thought he did
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kb2001
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11:55a, 9/29/23
AG
If Pena can't figure out how to hit a slider/sweeper, or at least not swing at them, I'd start hunting for a new SS. Sophomore season is tough for a lot of players, it's year 3 where we'll know if he's our guy or not.

For the playoffs this year, Pena is our guy, and needs to stay there. The time for trying players out at new positions is over. Just remember the chaos the Yankees had at SS last year in the postseason, and it was precisely because they were breaking in a rookie in October
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Mr President Elect
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In reply to kb2001 • 12:02p, 9/29/23
AG
It's kind of strange. For the most part this year, he has done a much better job at laying off the slider than he did last year. Somehow, that seems to have had no impact on production.
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Farmer1906
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12:07p, 9/29/23
AG
My thoughts on tonight. Win at all costs. Treat it just like last game. Then maybe Arizona still clinches so they step off the gas & we can fire JV & Javier Sat-Sun.
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Farmer1906
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In reply to Mr President Elect • 12:08p, 9/29/23
AG
He's not punishing the fastball.
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3 Toed Pete
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12:08p, 9/29/23
AG
I'm on board with Espada but find it strange how many times he's been interviewed by other teams and passed over. May be a case of just not interviewing well but the Astros would have a lot of inside info on him that would take precedence over an interview. He seems to have always had a great work ethic.
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West Roxbury
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12:10p, 9/29/23
Some of these guys could use a long offseason but I sure hope that we don't get one!!!!!
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cone
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In reply to RED AG 98 • 12:15p, 9/29/23
AG
RED AG 98 said:
I'm guessing Dusty is not a fan of any of this happening in public; and being the ever stubborn, arrogant, set in his ways old dog, will not learn this new trick. He'll dig his heels even further and out of spite respond with the best AAAA lineup he can produce.
the way they portrayed Art Howe in the Moneyball movie was unfair and inaccurate IMO

but the Art Howe character in that movie is the reality of Baker it seems
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Prosperdick
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 12:17p, 9/29/23
AG
Farmer1906 said:
This makes more sense.

Just got around to watching this compilation and a few thoughts. Man, Maldy is still bad at framing plus the 3rd pitch he drops inexplicably which likely cost Framber the strike call.

Also, I've noticed Maldy likes to overexaggerate his mitt placement. On almost all of those low strikes called balls he jerks his mitt up at least a foot to try to "fool" the ump but he doesn't need to...if he would just catch it and stay stationary I think he could get the calls (or more than he's getting now).

What's interesting is watch the balls called strikes and Framber DOES leave his mitt where it is and doesn't try to overexaggerate but it's usually on pitches high/outside. That does fool the ump for some reason.

Anyway, overall Maldy is still horrible at framing and needs to learn just to make minor movements on those low strikes and he would improve but at his age we all know that will not happen.

Or we could just let Diaz catch and not only do we get a better defensive catcher but a VERY good stick in the lineup. I know, fan stuff.
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TarponChaser
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In reply to cone • 12:22p, 9/29/23
cone said:
RED AG 98 said:
I'm guessing Dusty is not a fan of any of this happening in public; and being the ever stubborn, arrogant, set in his ways old dog, will not learn this new trick. He'll dig his heels even further and out of spite respond with the best AAAA lineup he can produce.
the way they portrayed Art Howe in the Moneyball movie was unfair and inaccurate IMO

but the Art Howe character in that movie is the reality of Baker it seems

You are correct on both statements
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Prosperdick
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In reply to cone • 12:28p, 9/29/23
AG
cone said:
RED AG 98 said:
I'm guessing Dusty is not a fan of any of this happening in public; and being the ever stubborn, arrogant, set in his ways old dog, will not learn this new trick. He'll dig his heels even further and out of spite respond with the best AAAA lineup he can produce.
the way they portrayed Art Howe in the Moneyball movie was unfair and inaccurate IMO

but the Art Howe character in that movie is the reality of Baker it seems
The way Phillip Seymore Hoffman (Howe) reacted to finding out Beane traded Pena is likely the exact same reaction Dusty had when he learned Click traded Straw (and THANK GOD that he did).
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Beat40
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 12:40p, 9/29/23
Farmer1906 said:
He's not punishing the fastball.
Wonder if that is a product of he is seeing less or he's just so focused on not swinging at that slider away that he's late on hittable fastballs.

He deserves a lot of credit for the work he's done this season. It's clear to me he's worked hard to recognize the slider away much more. It's hard to do that during the season when MLB pitching knows your weakness.

He's got A LOT of offseason work to do to figure out how to combine laying off the slider away and the power increase he wants that he was focused on in the beginning of the season.

I do think people still need to remember he'll be going into his 3rd year next year and just turned 26.
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mwm
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In reply to TarponChaser • 12:50p, 9/29/23
I certainly don't have any personal insight, but I doubt we'll ever hear all of the locker room details. The players generally don't like to reveal what's going on behind closed doors. You never know when that person who is now on the same team becomes the hated person on another team.

I doubt we'll ever know the full story of what has happened in the team's locker room.

And, sometimes, it's more intriguing to "read between the lines".
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JYDog90
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1:02p, 9/29/23
AG
I don't understand what makes an mlb locker room function so much differently than an nfl or nba locker room. There's all sorts of grievance airing, *****ing and moaning, and second guessing. Why not in baseball, or at least not in the Astros clubhouse?
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W
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1:08p, 9/29/23
AG
with regard to Pena (OPS .704)...and Dubon (OPS .722) as well...

what they're doing at the plate is fine for the 8th or 9th spot in the batting order

but once again...this is where Dusty and his fondness for Machete, Meyers, etc.., messes things up.

it forces Pena or Dubon into the 7-hole or 6-hole or 2-hole...where a .700 OPS is a problem
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3B Paul 97
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In reply to JYDog90 • 1:09p, 9/29/23
AG
Willy Wonka said:
I don't understand what makes an mlb locker room function so much differently than an nfl or nba locker room. There's all sorts of grievance airing, *****ing and moaning, and second guessing. Why not in baseball, or at least not in the Astros clubhouse?

More Latin American players that appreciate the opportunity?
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Farmer1906
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1:09p, 9/29/23
AG
This article warms my heart. I had no idea Click hired the Stuff+ guy.

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txags92
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In reply to Yoda • 1:11p, 9/29/23
AG
Yoda said:
In a scenario where we actually have all our best hitters in, how would you feel about playing Dubon at SS over Pena? My trust in Doobie coming thru with a big hit is higher these days than with last year's World Series MVP.

Is that crazy?


I have felt that way for a couple of weeks now. Dont have a good feel for how good Dubon is defensively at SS, but I trust him as a hitter more than Pena right now.
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W
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1:15p, 9/29/23
AG
regarding the clubhouse...

this is why Matt Chapman should get a couple of MVP votes

he gave us a fantastic peak-behind-the-curtain...when he was picked up on video directly questioning his manager for pitching to Ohtani

the players know when their manager is doing dumb stuff -- they know
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Beat40
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In reply to JYDog90 • 1:17p, 9/29/23
Willy Wonka said:
I don't understand what makes an mlb locker room function so much differently than an nfl or nba locker room. There's all sorts of grievance airing, *****ing and moaning, and second guessing. Why not in baseball, or at least not in the Astros clubhouse?
I think there is all of that in baseball clubhouses. It's widely documented how much Jeff Kent and Barry Bonds hated each other. The stuff with Hader just came out. We heard about the white sox clubhouse just this past year. Also super well known how much JV and Max hated each other.

Are you under the impression there is no airing of grievances, *****ing, moaning, and second guessing within an MLB clubhouse? I guarantee you all of that exists.

When you really think about it, how much do you really hear NFL or NBA players airing grievances and second guessing their coaches in public? It's very ,very rare, just as in MLB.
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Beat40
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In reply to W • 1:20p, 9/29/23
W said:
regarding the clubhouse...

this is why Matt Chapman should get a couple of MVP votes

he gave us a fantastic peak-behind-the-curtain...when he was picked up on video directly questioning his manager for pitching to Ohtani

the players know when their manager is doing dumb stuff -- they know
I don't remember this situation. When you say he was picked up in video - was it he was talking directly to his manager or to his teammate or was it in a press conference?

Because those are two very different things and don't necessarily the first doesn't really mean a whole lot in the grand scheme verses the second.
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Farmer1906
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1:21p, 9/29/23
AG
If you could pick who misses the playoffs, would you pick Arlington, Seattle, or Toronto?
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1836er
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In reply to JYDog90 • 1:23p, 9/29/23
AG
Willy Wonka said:
I don't understand what makes an mlb locker room function so much differently than an nfl or nba locker room. There's all sorts of grievance airing, *****ing and moaning, and second guessing. Why not in baseball, or at least not in the Astros clubhouse?
Different culture.
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Beat40
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 1:24p, 9/29/23
Farmer1906 said:
If you could pick who misses the playoffs, would you pick Arlington, Seattle, or Toronto?
Toronto. They could be the team that puts offense and pitching together to make a run. At least I believe more so than Arlington or Seattle.
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Beat40
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In reply to 1836er • 1:25p, 9/29/23
1836er said:
Willy Wonka said:
I don't understand what makes an mlb locker room function so much differently than an nfl or nba locker room. There's all sorts of grievance airing, *****ing and moaning, and second guessing. Why not in baseball, or at least not in the Astros clubhouse?
Different culture.
I honestly don't think it's that different.
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Farmer1906
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In reply to Beat40 • 1:26p, 9/29/23
AG
Beat40 said:
Farmer1906 said:
If you could pick who misses the playoffs, would you pick Arlington, Seattle, or Toronto?
Toronto. They could be the team that puts offense and pitching together to make a run. At least I believe more so than Arlington or Seattle.


Maybe it's just hate but I want Seattle at home. Plus their pitching could be a problem.
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BCEDAg
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1:28p, 9/29/23
AG
While Peña's defensive metrics are better than Dubon's at shortstop, Dubon is better in the clutch offensively. However, if you had told me that we would have a shortstop that was replacing Correa that would at least bat .260 I would have taken that in a heartbeat. Maybe Dubon should sub for Bregman at third base occasionally to give Alex rest. Bregs isn't getting any younger.
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W
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In reply to Beat40 • 1:37p, 9/29/23
AG
Chapman was in the dugout speaking directly to his manager

it went viral the last week of July
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