***** 2023 Houston Astros Season Thread *****

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Beat40
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In reply to AgLA06 • 9:53a, 8/13/23
AgLA06 said:
Beat40 said:
AgLA06 said:
Deluxe said:
Prosperdick said:

I'm sure they have a great relationship but if Maldy has a few pass balls, let runners steal on him at will and earns a few golden sombrero's, which cost JV some wins, you don't think he wouldn't tap Dusty on the shoulder and tell him to give Maldy a day off. Yeah, I guess Verlander is just that sentimental.
Nope. And it has nothing to do with sentimentality.


Well, then you'll have to enlighten us because it has absolutely nothing to do with performance.


It has been explained over and over, but you guys don't like the answer and for some reason can imagine it to be true.


Which part? Where Maldy is one of the worst defensive catchers in the league? Or where Maldy is the worst offensive catcher in the league?




The part where none of that actually matters.

For some reason it's incomprehensible to a lot of y'all that JV might actually prefer Maldy to be his catcher when they type of stuff happens everywhere across sports with vets, especially HOF level vets.
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Beat40
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In reply to Ag_07 • 9:55a, 8/13/23
Ag_07 said:

Quote:
you don't think he wouldn't tap Dusty on the shoulder and tell him to give Maldy a day off

I've seen this thought that JV is dictating lineup decisions a few times since his return and I'm pretty sure this is not the case.

JV isn't telling Dusty who to play when.


It's not that JV is dictating the entire lineup, it's that I'm sure there have been conversations between Dusty and JV about who he trusts more to catch him.
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AgLA06
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In reply to Beat40 • 9:55a, 8/13/23
AG
Yes. It's incomprehensible that a competent manager would allow someone you just traded your 2 best prospects for to make decisions that limit your ability to win.
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JDUB08AG
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9:55a, 8/13/23
AG
Would you sign maldy to a backup catcher contract next year?
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Mr.Bond
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In reply to JDUB08AG • 9:56a, 8/13/23
AG
JDUB08AG said:
Would you sign maldy to a backup catcher contract next year?



Absolutely not. Especially if old man baker is still here
Im looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. Im just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.


MAGA

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Prosperdick
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In reply to rosco511 • 9:58a, 8/13/23
AG
rosco511 said:
There are no stats that support Maldy playing this much at this point. This reminds of the he just wins argument for starting QBs who do not put up good stats, except even the team win stat is not in Maldy' s favor.

Sometimes managers have to make the hard decision and play the better younger player. We have a guy who could have been the rookie of the year if given regular playing opportunity and who is clearly a top 10 catcher being a backup to a guy who is the next to last catcher in the league in defensive metrics and the worst (or at least bottom 5) hitter in the entire league.
I'd actually be OK with Maldy as JV and Framber's personal catcher IF that meant Diaz was catching the other 4 pitchers (assuming we stick with a 6 man rotation). That means Diaz is getting 66% of the starts and I'm OK with that scenario as he still needs rest and it also gives Maldy plenty of rest (maybe his defensive metrics would improve if he had more time off...who knows).

However, our best catcher getting 20% of the starts is galactically stupid. Throwing out "he doesn't hit lefties well" as justification is even stupider but I've come to expect it from Dusty.
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Beat40
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In reply to CoachAg19 • 9:58a, 8/13/23
CoachAg19 said:
Deluxe said:
Prosperdick said:

I'm sure they have a great relationship but if Maldy has a few pass balls, let runners steal on him at will and earns a few golden sombrero's, which cost JV some wins, you don't think he wouldn't tap Dusty on the shoulder and tell him to give Maldy a day off. Yeah, I guess Verlander is just that sentimental.
Nope. And it has nothing to do with sentimentality.


You may have some sort of inside info that I don't, but I respectfully disagree. This whole "personal catcher" thing is so goofy, IMO. Especially for a guy like JV. Kalas and Blummer even discussed the other night on the broadcast how JV calls his own games or picks his own pitches. They mentioned how you will see JV on the mound shaking off Maldy's calls until Maldy gives him what he wants to throw. It isn't Maldy calling the game with JV on the mound. It's JV. So what exactly is it that Maldy is doing, or perhaps that Diaz isn't doing, that would make JV want to have a statistically worse (offensively and defensively) player back there???


I don't understand why it's so hard to believe a HOF player might have some say in who catches them. It happens across all sports. The best QBs in the NFL have a lot of say in the offensive roster. The best NBA players have say in the roster too. It's not a stretch that JV and Dusty have had a conversation about who JV wants catching him.

It's about trust between the pitcher and catcher. JV May shake Maldy off, but I guarantee you Maldy can talk to HV in a certain way that Diaz couldn't.

Here are some quotes from an article about last year's WS win for JV:

"Philadelphia threatened in the second inning, loading the bases on Jean Segura's two-out single and back-to-back walks. Catcher Martn Maldonado calmed Verlander down at the mound, telling him: "The runners aren't going anywhere. Just worry about executing pitches." Verlander recovered to pin the bases loaded, striking out Rhys Hoskins swinging on a slider."

"Once we started leaning on [the sliders] a little bit, it was almost like testing the water, sticking your foot in the pool and seeing how cold it is," Verlander explained. "Once we started using them a little bit and started seeing the reactions that we typically get most of the season from the hitters, then I think we started leaning on it a little bit more."

Notice JV says we over and over. He has to trust his catcher in game, in the biggest moments to figure out stuff along with him. In the current situation the Astros are in, that catcher is Maldy.

Next year, when Maldy is gone, it will be Diaz.
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EastCoastAgNc
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10:00a, 8/13/23
AG
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SpaceCityAg05
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10:00a, 8/13/23
AG
Plain and simple, the Maldy thing is a matter of veteran bias and reputation.

Maldy has always been an offensive liability, but he used to be an elite catcher. Every single catcher skill on the field has now eroded to subpar.

The one thing that Maldy is still elite at is preparation. He works his butt off, knows the pitchers, and does his homework. That makes him a big security blanket for pitchers.

However, I suspect the reason why the numbers don't show a difference (and again, in fact, why our pitchers have actually performed BETTER with Diaz behind the plate), is that this is all off the field work. Diaz and our pitchers benefit from his prep without him having to actually play in the game.

Therefore, he is an alpha among the group, but his gifts are now best served as a personal catcher for Framber, and frankly moving forward, to a coaching
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Prosperdick
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In reply to Beat40 • 10:00a, 8/13/23
AG
Beat40 said:
Ag_07 said:

Quote:
you don't think he wouldn't tap Dusty on the shoulder and tell him to give Maldy a day off

I've seen this thought that JV is dictating lineup decisions a few times since his return and I'm pretty sure this is not the case.

JV isn't telling Dusty who to play when.


It's not that JV is dictating the entire lineup, it's that I'm sure there have been conversations between Dusty and JV about who he trusts more to catch him.
THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN...check notes, oh wait he stupidly let Tucker and Yordan decide who would bat 3rd and 5th. You can't make this **** up.
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Prosperdick
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In reply to EastCoastAgNc • 10:02a, 8/13/23
AG
EastCoastAgNc said:
We have another double digit performance today and we move closer to passing the Cubbies!!
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CoachAg19
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In reply to Beat40 • 10:03a, 8/13/23
AG
Beat40 said:
CoachAg19 said:
Deluxe said:
Prosperdick said:

I'm sure they have a great relationship but if Maldy has a few pass balls, let runners steal on him at will and earns a few golden sombrero's, which cost JV some wins, you don't think he wouldn't tap Dusty on the shoulder and tell him to give Maldy a day off. Yeah, I guess Verlander is just that sentimental.
Nope. And it has nothing to do with sentimentality.


You may have some sort of inside info that I don't, but I respectfully disagree. This whole "personal catcher" thing is so goofy, IMO. Especially for a guy like JV. Kalas and Blummer even discussed the other night on the broadcast how JV calls his own games or picks his own pitches. They mentioned how you will see JV on the mound shaking off Maldy's calls until Maldy gives him what he wants to throw. It isn't Maldy calling the game with JV on the mound. It's JV. So what exactly is it that Maldy is doing, or perhaps that Diaz isn't doing, that would make JV want to have a statistically worse (offensively and defensively) player back there???


I don't understand why it's so hard to believe a HOF player might have some say in who catches them. It happens across all sports. The best QBs in the NFL have a lot of say in the offensive roster. The best NBA players have say in the roster too. It's not a stretch that JV and Dusty have had a conversation about who JV wants catching him.

It's about trust between the pitcher and catcher. JV May shake Maldy off, but I guarantee you Maldy can talk to HV in a certain way that Diaz couldn't.


I never said JV doesn't have some say in it. Clearly he does. That wasn't my point at all.
Class of 2010
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EastCoastAgNc
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10:03a, 8/13/23
AG

That bottom 3...woof
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Beat40
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In reply to CoachAg19 • 10:08a, 8/13/23
CoachAg19 said:
Beat40 said:
CoachAg19 said:
Deluxe said:
Prosperdick said:

I'm sure they have a great relationship but if Maldy has a few pass balls, let runners steal on him at will and earns a few golden sombrero's, which cost JV some wins, you don't think he wouldn't tap Dusty on the shoulder and tell him to give Maldy a day off. Yeah, I guess Verlander is just that sentimental.
Nope. And it has nothing to do with sentimentality.


You may have some sort of inside info that I don't, but I respectfully disagree. This whole "personal catcher" thing is so goofy, IMO. Especially for a guy like JV. Kalas and Blummer even discussed the other night on the broadcast how JV calls his own games or picks his own pitches. They mentioned how you will see JV on the mound shaking off Maldy's calls until Maldy gives him what he wants to throw. It isn't Maldy calling the game with JV on the mound. It's JV. So what exactly is it that Maldy is doing, or perhaps that Diaz isn't doing, that would make JV want to have a statistically worse (offensively and defensively) player back there???


I don't understand why it's so hard to believe a HOF player might have some say in who catches them. It happens across all sports. The best QBs in the NFL have a lot of say in the offensive roster. The best NBA players have say in the roster too. It's not a stretch that JV and Dusty have had a conversation about who JV wants catching him.

It's about trust between the pitcher and catcher. JV May shake Maldy off, but I guarantee you Maldy can talk to HV in a certain way that Diaz couldn't.


I never said JV doesn't have some say in it. Clearly he does. That wasn't my point at all.


Your point was if JV is calling the game, it shouldn't matter who the catcher is back there. Go and reread my edited post your responded to. He still has to have trust and work with this catcher and figure stuff out in game. That requires trust. It's clear he trusts Maldy. He has never been caught be Diaz before. It's the least surprising thing in the world to me that if his preference for catcher catching him was asked that it would be Maldy for this season.
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Beat40
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In reply to AgLA06 • 10:09a, 8/13/23
AgLA06 said:
Yes. It's incomprehensible that a competent manager would allow someone you just traded your 2 best prospects for to make decisions that limit your ability to win.


Alright, we're not going to get anywhere. Enjoy the game this afternoon.
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irish pete ag06
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10:10a, 8/13/23
AG
As silly as it seems there are just some things in sports where feel trumps data. Catcher to pitcher may be one of the biggest things in this realm.

This is coming from a guy who used to write for the crawfish boxes back when it was maybe the best stop online for Astros sabermetric discussion. I'm saying that to relay that I'm a numbers guy to the damn bone. But leadership matters. There's no measure for it.

I believe Dusty and Maldy for their negatives in the numbers department are big time plusses in the intangibles. While those things matter minsculy over 162 games, they matter pretty significantly in October.
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superaggie73
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In reply to JDUB08AG • 10:10a, 8/13/23
AG
JDUB08AG said:
Would you sign maldy to a backup catcher contract next year?


Hell no! But as a bench coach that helps game plan pitchers…absolutely.
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West Roxbury
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In reply to irish pete ag06 • 10:13a, 8/13/23
Agree. A catcher on the field is like a QB. A strong leader is felt. That said, man that is a black hole in the lineup.
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Mr President Elect
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In reply to Beat40 • 10:17a, 8/13/23
AG
Beat40 said:
CoachAg19 said:
Beat40 said:
CoachAg19 said:
Deluxe said:
Prosperdick said:

I'm sure they have a great relationship but if Maldy has a few pass balls, let runners steal on him at will and earns a few golden sombrero's, which cost JV some wins, you don't think he wouldn't tap Dusty on the shoulder and tell him to give Maldy a day off. Yeah, I guess Verlander is just that sentimental.
Nope. And it has nothing to do with sentimentality.


You may have some sort of inside info that I don't, but I respectfully disagree. This whole "personal catcher" thing is so goofy, IMO. Especially for a guy like JV. Kalas and Blummer even discussed the other night on the broadcast how JV calls his own games or picks his own pitches. They mentioned how you will see JV on the mound shaking off Maldy's calls until Maldy gives him what he wants to throw. It isn't Maldy calling the game with JV on the mound. It's JV. So what exactly is it that Maldy is doing, or perhaps that Diaz isn't doing, that would make JV want to have a statistically worse (offensively and defensively) player back there???


I don't understand why it's so hard to believe a HOF player might have some say in who catches them. It happens across all sports. The best QBs in the NFL have a lot of say in the offensive roster. The best NBA players have say in the roster too. It's not a stretch that JV and Dusty have had a conversation about who JV wants catching him.

It's about trust between the pitcher and catcher. JV May shake Maldy off, but I guarantee you Maldy can talk to HV in a certain way that Diaz couldn't.


I never said JV doesn't have some say in it. Clearly he does. That wasn't my point at all.


Your point was if JV is calling the game, it shouldn't matter who the catcher is back there. Go and reread my edited post your responded to. He still has to have trust and work with this catcher and figure stuff out in game. That requires trust. It's clear he trusts Maldy. He has never been caught be Diaz before. It's the least surprising thing in the world to me that if his preference for catcher catching him was asked that it would be Maldy for this season.
I used to pitch, not at a super high level, but I had catchers that I loved to pitch to and some that I absolutetly hated. It had some to do with pitch calling but really it was more about pre pitch set up, pacing, framing, and a lot of other little things. I'm not sure what the era numbers are between the two catchers, but at some point if you have a better era pitching to your less desirable catcher for whatever reason, you suck it up and pitch to him. Although, I am not sure there is much overlap with them catching the same pitchers so not sure how quantifiable their era stats are.
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EastCoastAgNc
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10:35a, 8/13/23
AG
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rosco511
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In reply to irish pete ag06 • 10:40a, 8/13/23
AG
irish pete ag06 said:
As silly as it seems there are just some things in sports where feel trumps data. Catcher to pitcher may be one of the biggest things in this realm.

This is coming from a guy who used to write for the crawfish boxes back when it was maybe the best stop online for Astros sabermetric discussion. I'm saying that to relay that I'm a numbers guy to the damn bone. But leadership matters. There's no measure for it.

I believe Dusty and Maldy for their negatives in the numbers department are big time plusses in the intangibles. While those things matter minsculy over 162 games, they matter pretty significantly in October.


This logic would have some support if stats suggest the pitchers perform better with Maldy behind the plate and/or the team wins more with him behind the plate. However, none of this is supported by any of the stats this year.
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Farmer1906
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In reply to EastCoastAgNc • 10:49a, 8/13/23
AG
EastCoastAgNc said:


Smart to keep innings down. Better than what Miami did when they sent a red hot Eury Perez down.
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EastCoastAgNc
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10:53a, 8/13/23
AG
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W
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In reply to JYDog90 • 10:54a, 8/13/23
AG
Willy Wonka said:
I'm not the baseball mind that some of y'all are so I'm curious about the Yordan-Tucker thing back to back.

I always heard that if you've got a righty heavy lineup you don't want your lefties batting back to back because you could just bring in a lefty reliever for those two (now 3 because they have to stay in 3 batters) and then go back righty.

Is that not a thing anymore? I get you want protection for your power hitter and Tuck is certainly that, but just wondering what trumps what.
I have to old school when the back-to-back leftys discussion comes up

Dave Parker and Willie Stargell hit back-to-back for the mid-to-late 70's Pittsburgh Pirates

and it worked just fine. 1979 World champions.

in fact it always works fine when both leftys are great hitters
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Lonestar_Ag09
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In reply to EastCoastAgNc • 10:54a, 8/13/23
AG
Bligh was earlier also. Then added and then DFA'd again.
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Eso si, Que es
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10:55a, 8/13/23
If Yordan is capable of playing right field, I am fine with Maldy catching and Diaz DH. But I would prefer to see JV and Framber pitch to Diaz a couple of times in regular season to make sure they don't have to pitch to him in the post season as their first time.

Dusty tries so much stuff out in the regular season, it only seems natural to give every pitcher a few starts with each catcher. Imagine Maldy going down to injury and JV pitching to Diaz for first time ever in the ALCS, that would just be poor planning.

Next time Yordan is DH on JV and Framber starts, Diaz should be the catcher because that is a potential post season scenario we need to be prepared for.
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RED AG 98
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In reply to EastCoastAgNc • 10:58a, 8/13/23
AG
Singleton's numbers include an awful stint with the Brewers in June, something like 1-32. Since his recent callup as an Astro in 4 GP (2 starts I believe) he's 3-12, 5 RBI, 2 HR, 3 BB, and only 1 K. With an OPS of 1.2.

Small sample size but not going to complain about his production here at all.
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W
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11:01a, 8/13/23
AG
the key for Singleton is to mix in walks & singles with the home runs

that will keep his numbers decent and/or servicable
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W
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In reply to EastCoastAgNc • 11:03a, 8/13/23
AG
EastCoastAgNc said:
'Astros will not face Alcantara

been on a nice run of missing opposing aces

(I think he is Miami's #1)
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BMX Bandit
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In reply to W • 11:04a, 8/13/23
Quote:
Dave Parker and Willie Stargell hit back-to-back for the mid-to-late 70's Pittsburgh Pirates


Interestingly, against lefty starters they were split up by bill Robinson
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AlwaysNextYear89
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In reply to W • 11:07a, 8/13/23
AG
W said:
Willy Wonka said:
I'm not the baseball mind that some of y'all are so I'm curious about the Yordan-Tucker thing back to back.

I always heard that if you've got a righty heavy lineup you don't want your lefties batting back to back because you could just bring in a lefty reliever for those two (now 3 because they have to stay in 3 batters) and then go back righty.

Is that not a thing anymore? I get you want protection for your power hitter and Tuck is certainly that, but just wondering what trumps what.
I have to old school when the back-to-back leftys discussion comes up

Dave Parker and Willie Stargell hit back-to-back for the mid-to-late 70's Pittsburgh Pirates

and it worked just fine. 1979 World champions.

in fact it always works fine when both leftys are great hitters
Anyone else have one of those Pirate hats back in the day?
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3B Paul 97
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 11:10a, 8/13/23
AG
Farmer1906 said:
EastCoastAgNc said:


Smart to keep innings down. Better than what Miami did when they sent a red hot Eury Perez down.

Two good things with this:
1) keep JV and Framber on regular rest
2) Getting the young guys (Brown and France) a slight breather to have them ready for the stretch run/playoffs
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Eso si, Que es
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In reply to AlwaysNextYear89 • 11:10a, 8/13/23
AlwaysNextYear89 said:
W said:
Willy Wonka said:
I'm not the baseball mind that some of y'all are so I'm curious about the Yordan-Tucker thing back to back.

I always heard that if you've got a righty heavy lineup you don't want your lefties batting back to back because you could just bring in a lefty reliever for those two (now 3 because they have to stay in 3 batters) and then go back righty.

Is that not a thing anymore? I get you want protection for your power hitter and Tuck is certainly that, but just wondering what trumps what.
I have to old school when the back-to-back leftys discussion comes up

Dave Parker and Willie Stargell hit back-to-back for the mid-to-late 70's Pittsburgh Pirates

and it worked just fine. 1979 World champions.

in fact it always works fine when both leftys are great hitters
Anyone else have one of those Pirate hats back in the day?
My brother did, I still give him sh/t about it
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AgSportsFan89
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In reply to W • 11:25a, 8/13/23
AG
W said:
EastCoastAgNc said:
'Astros will not face Alcantara

been on a nice run of missing opposing aces

(I think he is Miami's #1)


I think Alcantara has had a bit of an up and down year, but has been pretty solid lately, including a shutout hit last start. So missing him is pretty lucky.
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linkdude
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11:27a, 8/13/23
AG
Angels play the Rangers next up. They are skipping Ohtani in the rotation.
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