The Astros are now 6 games back in the division, 1 game behind the Angels, and 1 game out of the Wild Card. Dusty is managing just like he did last year, only this team isn't good enough to overcome it.

Getting Yordan back will help. We think. Getting Altuve back was supposed to help, too, but the potato won't play him every day.

Tests don't come before the All Star break. There is currently 0 pressure on them, who knows maybe they skate through and the Astros or Angels never string any wins together and no pressure is applied which is the way I it looks right now,.before the all star break is basically the pre season

How about Lane Thomas from the Nats?

If you are looking to trade big league pieces then Chas and Yrquidy look like your options. Of course Yrquidy has to show he is healthy but there are quite a few competitive teams who have nothing after their top 2 starters. It seems unlikely either would net you anything of importance to help this years team. Would you settle for just getting a team to take a bad contract?

TK said it last night...

with Yordan no longer having enough plate appearances to be a "qualified" hitter

the Astros do not have anyone (qualified) with an OPS above .800

tough way to score runs on a nightly basis

Dubon has not drawn a walk in the month of June

in 78 plate appearances

I think back to the 2005 team that made the world series and how mediocre they were at the ASB, I think this team can turn it around, even if they keep dusty. Will they? Who knows. We definitely need BP help, maybe a solid bat that can DH and play 1B, and maybe a SP.

tjack16 said:

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About a month ago it was "don't worry the rangers will collapse and we will figure it out. It's just an early season slump"

What's the narrative now? The division deficit has grown, the Angels are now neck and neck with us/passing us depending on the day.

Dusty is managing to keep us "healthy in October" but at this rate he's managing us out of being in October

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The Rangers have over-performed. They will go .500 the rest of the way, but that still gets them to 90 wins.

I'm not worried about the Rangers. The main problem that I'm not sure if we can get to 90 wins.

All I do is Nguyen said:

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I think back to the 2005 team that made the world series and how mediocre they were at the ASB, I think this team can turn it around, even if they keep dusty. Will they? Who knows. We definitely need BP help, maybe a solid bat that can DH and play 1B, and maybe a SP.

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True, and there are so many examples of teams like that in recent history. It's a matter of making it to the playoffs and getting hot.

At the same time I think there's still enough opening left in the window that it's not worth trading away the future. If we were fully healthy, there's no doubt in my mind we win this division. I think the same will be true next season.

May not be a popular opinion, but I don't want to get too crazy before the trade deadline. Not giving up on this season, but I also don't want to gut our farm for a Dusty led team.

JDUB08AG said:

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May not be a popular opinion, but I don't want to get too crazy before the trade deadline. Not giving up on this season, but I also don't want to gut our farm for a Dusty led team.

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Our big trade acquisitions should just be getting Brantley, Yordan and Urquidy healthy. Those right there can make a massive impact

Brantley is two years older since he last played and he's coming off a major injury. I'm not expecting a big impact from him. Neither is the organization.

Can we sign USMNT Goalie Matt Turner to play first base for the summer before he has to go back to Arsenal for his real job? He's already in St. Louis.

Matt Turner. American Soccer Bo Jackson. ⚾️💥🤯pic.twitter.com/ol2xUKQaf7

— Men in Blazers (@MenInBlazers) June 28, 2023

The Astros will absolutely need at least another bullpen arm:

Phil Maton made his 36th appearance of the season last night, in the Astros' 79th game. Maton's most appearances in a season is 67, set last season. Bryan Abreu has also made 36 appearances this season. His career-high for a season is 55.

— Chandler Rome (@Chandler_Rome) June 28, 2023

The deadline plans haven't changed from what I've heard other than the need for a bullpen arm has become more pressing.

Trading for one or two guys is not going to change the way this team is managed and therefore performing. Save the capital and Dusty can fail miserably missing the playoffs while doing his lazy victory lap for finally having a team good enough to win a WS. Maybe Maldy will retire too and we roll with Diaz and Lee next year.

Project Gemini said:

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Trading for one or two guys is not going to change the way this team is managed and therefore performing. Save the capital and Dusty can fail miserably missing the playoffs while doing his lazy victory lap for finally having a team good enough to win a WS. Maybe Maldy will retire too and we roll with Diaz and Lee next year.

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I don't understand this mentality at all.

I agree.

the Astros have very few trade pieces...especially with Meyers slumping

texasaggie2015 said:

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The Astros will absolutely need at least another bullpen arm:

Phil Maton made his 36th appearance of the season last night, in the Astros' 79th game. Maton's most appearances in a season is 67, set last season. Bryan Abreu has also made 36 appearances this season. His career-high for a season is 55.

— Chandler Rome (@Chandler_Rome) June 28, 2023

The deadline plans haven't changed from what I've heard other than the need for a bullpen arm has become more pressing.

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There's no way they can get all the help they need at the deadline even if they went all in (1 big-ticket offensive player, bench help, starter, bullpen). There's so many issues, and the team is playing so poorly, is it worth it to use up what little you have to maybe get the last wild card spot, or should they just stand pat and prepare for next year?

In general, with the expanded playoffs, there are going to be fewer deadline sellers. Teams that want to compete but have starved farm systems will have to be more active (and successful) in free agency and spend more money. The Astros will actually have to go out and sign players in free agency, and hopefully they'll be more intelligent about it than they were last offseason.

Look, I understand being discouraged and frustrated. I am too. But we aren't even to the All-Star break yet.

Is this team underperforming? Absolutely. There's still a ton of baseball left. Yordan will be back soon. Sometimes all it takes is one or two moves to provide a big spark and to get rolling.

This team has tons of postseason experience and all it takes is sneaking into the playoffs to have a legitimate chance at another title run. I don't understand the "season is over, just get ready for next year" mentality. That's absolutely ridiculous. Just stop it.

Sure, it's possible it's just not our year. We've been very spoiled. But teams get scorching hot in the second half all the time and this team absolutely could. The Washington Nationals were 40-40 on June 28th 2019 and we know how that story ended. The Atlanta Braves were 37-40 on June 28th 2021. The Philadelphia Phillies were 39-36 on June 28th 2022. The Astros are currently 42-37. Just let it play out and see what happens. Giving up on the season when we haven't even reached the all-star break is extremely premature.

Be frustrated. Be angry. Be disappointed. But this is baseball.. it's a marathon. There's a ton of games left and things can change very quickly.

texasaggie2015 said:

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Project Gemini said:

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Trading for one or two guys is not going to change the way this team is managed and therefore performing. Save the capital and Dusty can fail miserably missing the playoffs while doing his lazy victory lap for finally having a team good enough to win a WS. Maybe Maldy will retire too and we roll with Diaz and Lee next year.

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I don't understand this mentality at all.

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Yep

It's almost like people forget about 2020 when this team was a big pile of meh the entire season, limped into the playoffs, but got right at the right time and went all the way to GM 7 of the ALCS.

They're underperforming no doubt, but not to the point that it's time to wave the white flag.

There is a difference between waving the white flag and being cautious knowing that we still have a strong core for 2 years and it would be short sighted to do anything too drastic this year. You could trot out this exact same team next year and we could be on a 100+ win pace with guys moderately closer to their career numbers. Its not that far fetched to envision that scenario.

True

But I think based on what we know as far as what teams are projected to be sellers, who's available, what the needs are, and the current roster doing something drastic isn't really on the table.

This team was never going to be going all in on a blockbuster trade that wiped out the farm system.

We're talking about adding a platoon bat, a BP arm, and/or a mid/back end starter.

Ag_07 said:

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texasaggie2015 said:

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Project Gemini said:

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Trading for one or two guys is not going to change the way this team is managed and therefore performing. Save the capital and Dusty can fail miserably missing the playoffs while doing his lazy victory lap for finally having a team good enough to win a WS. Maybe Maldy will retire too and we roll with Diaz and Lee next year.

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I don't understand this mentality at all.

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Yep

It's almost like people forget about 2020 when this team was a big pile of meh the entire season, limped into the playoffs, but got right at the right time and went all the way to GM 7 of the ALCS.

They're underperforming no doubt, but not to the point that it's time to wave the white flag.

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I took the original quote to mean that let Dusty bury himself to get rid of him easier. Not that he was necessarily waving the white flag.
Imagine a senerio where we do make it to the WS. There is a good chance we'll still be stuck with Dusty. Wash ,rinse, repeat. Espada needs to be the Skipper.

Is there a way to look up our record this year with Yordan in the lineup and compare it to without? I have a feeling the difference is quite significant.

Edit *
Think I found it. 33-24 with (.579) and 9-13 without (.409).

Ag_07 said:

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texasaggie2015 said:

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Project Gemini said:

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Trading for one or two guys is not going to change the way this team is managed and therefore performing. Save the capital and Dusty can fail miserably missing the playoffs while doing his lazy victory lap for finally having a team good enough to win a WS. Maybe Maldy will retire too and we roll with Diaz and Lee next year.

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I don't understand this mentality at all.

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Yep

It's almost like people forget about 2020 when this team was a big pile of meh the entire season, limped into the playoffs, but got right at the right time and went all the way to GM 7 of the ALCS.

They're underperforming no doubt, but not to the point that it's time to wave the white flag.

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Like others have said, "don't trade away the farm" doesn't mean waving the white flag.

I never question some of the "bad" trades that led to championships because you have to look at the successful overall big picture, but this year we are IMO far more than a couple of role players away and even for role players we've had to give up future studs like Teoscar and Siri (can still barely get myself to acknowledge that Siri might be a star) for a role player.

33-24 When Yordan is in the starting lineup.

Sort of stated this earlier but IMO Dana can go one of 3 ways. The first one is to be "aggressive" and attempt to set this team up for a legitimate shot at a repeat. The second is to make some lesser moves with the idea of making a wild card and "hope" for a deep run. The third is to make minimal moves, don't trade any significant players, and ride the rest of this season out. (and hope Brantley, Yordan and Urquidy return in form).

1st Option: Need for shot at a championship:
1 impact bat (2 if Brantley doesn't come back)
SP that can be a strong 3/4
Back-end bullpen help (closer stuff would be preferable)

2nd Option: Need for shot at a wild card (and potential deep run):
1 impact bat
Back-end bullpen help

3rd Option: Ride out the season:
Make moves that will set us up to be aggressive in the off-season. Don't know exactly what those moves are, but I'm not being paid to be the GM.

Project Gemini said:

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Trading for one or two guys is not going to change the way this team is managed and therefore performing. Save the capital and Dusty can fail miserably missing the playoffs while doing his lazy victory lap for finally having a team good enough to win a WS. Maybe Maldy will retire too and we roll with Diaz and Lee next year.

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I understand what you are saying, but we only have so many years of Altuve, Bregman, Yordan, Tucker, Valdez, Javier, Pressly, etc. We cannot afford to not go for it. Between getting Yordan back, adding some to help at 1st and in the OF/DH vs RHP, and another arm to help keep everyone fresh we can make significant improvements without selling the farm.

Farmer said:

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33-24 When Yordan is in the starting lineup....

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Harry Dunne said:

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Ag_07 said:

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texasaggie2015 said:

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Project Gemini said:

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Trading for one or two guys is not going to change the way this team is managed and therefore performing. Save the capital and Dusty can fail miserably missing the playoffs while doing his lazy victory lap for finally having a team good enough to win a WS. Maybe Maldy will retire too and we roll with Diaz and Lee next year.

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I don't understand this mentality at all.

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Yep

It's almost like people forget about 2020 when this team was a big pile of meh the entire season, limped into the playoffs, but got right at the right time and went all the way to GM 7 of the ALCS.

They're underperforming no doubt, but not to the point that it's time to wave the white flag.

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Like others have said, "don't trade away the farm" doesn't mean waving the white flag.

I never question some of the "bad" trades that led to championships because you have to look at the successful overall big picture, but this year we are IMO far more than a couple of role players away and even for role players we've had to give up future studs like Teoscar and Siri (can still barely get myself to acknowledge that Siri might be a star) for a role player.

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I'm glad he got a ring with the good guys

I'll jump in on Siri.

He's walking a tightrope of success. He almost has as many HRs and singles. He still strikes out about 1/3 of the time, but he's been unbelievably successful at barreling the ball. If he were a stock, I am selling high.

Harry Dunne said:

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Farmer said:

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33-24 When Yordan is in the starting lineup....

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See. Play your best players and good things happen.

Dana Brown reiterated that his focus is acquiring offense at the trade deadline, but acknowledged they need another arm, too. Asked if Drew Gilbert is untouchable, Brown said no one is untouchable, but basically said they wouldn't give him up in a deal for a rental.

— Chandler Rome (@Chandler_Rome) June 28, 2023

Astros GM Dana Brown asked about taking a rental at the deadline: "Ya we'll take a rental. We'll take a big bat to add to Yordan and Brantley when they get back. We'll also look for a good arm to get us over the hump." @SeanUnfiltered @moneyonthemic7 @SportsTalk790

— Brian LaLima (@BLima790) June 28, 2023

Was not a throw in the towel post. The team is constructed pretty damn well as is. The staff is simply not getting the individuals or team to play well and it is repeatedly discussed in this thread. Do you really think this team, 1) constructed as is and 2) returning minimum Yordan and Urquidy, possibly Brantley, cannot make a run at a WS? Our SP rotation is just fine for a play off run - Framber, Javier, Brown, Urquidy, Blanco (as needed or long relief), France if it comes to that gets to try big boy playoff pants on. Is Diaz going to continue getting PAs when Yordan comes back? Or are we going to put our hot hitter on the bench 2/3s of the time, while Julks continues to play often, and refuse to PH Diaz for Maldy late in games

I'm sorry but Dusty has a team full of players that can and have won. Trading farm assets for more players isnt going to solve the issues plaguing the first half of this year. This is a WS competing roster as constructed with the caveat that any more LT injuries would justify potentially bringing in a rental somewhere.