Just perusing the DiamondKast radar numbers for the 12U Major semifinal game between Wildcatters-Rusk and ZT National it's pretty insane. These kids were sitting upper-70s and one kid for ZT National was consistently hitting 80-81. That's just nuts. 80 at 50' is like 105mph from 60'.
2023 youth baseball/softball check-in
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Last: 1 mo ago by TarponChaser
What are the thoughts on private hitting lessons for an 8 year old? Half hour couple times a month?
Sounds like us. 0-4 on the weekend. Combined records of the teams we played was 13-3 in pool play. One of the 3 losses was because two of the teams played each other. Otherwise, 3 of them would've likely been undefeated in pool play. We were complete garbage on Saturday, errors, couldn't hit. Played better on Sunday, and played our best against a nationally ranked team that is just far better than us. The last game was the most winnable, but our best pitcher started and just didn't have it. We didn't play bad, he just couldn't keep balls off of barrels.
We played Rusk this weekend and ZT National at the end of the fall. Both of those teams are ridiculous. ZT is the best team we've seen. Our little victory this weekend was pissing off the Rusk coaches by putting up a few runs and them thinking it put them out of contention to make bracket play. They scored 26 runs their second game on Saturday and 28 on the team after us. We held them to 12, so we were happy with that (should've been 8, but we booted a routine ground ball and dropped a pop-up for the third out, and the next batter went yard). Those are full grown men. They hit something like 8 bombs in the game they scored 28.
Bassmaster said:
We played Rusk this weekend and ZT National at the end of the fall. Both of those teams are ridiculous. ZT is the best team we've seen. Our little victory this weekend was pissing off the Rusk coaches by putting up a few runs and them thinking it put them out of contention to make bracket play. They scored 26 runs their second game on Saturday and 28 on the team after us. We held them to 12, so we were happy with that (should've been 8, but we booted a routine ground ball and dropped a pop-up for the third out, and the next batter went yard). Those are full grown men. They hit something like 8 bombs in the game they scored 28.
Yeah, they're both nuts. Rusk is who my older boy does hitting lessons with and he's been tremendous. He wanted my son to play for him but he also said we're doing the right thing by having him play on grade level. I looked at the ZT roster and like 8 of their kids this weekend are 7th graders and I think all but 2 are older than mine. Rusk has some kids like that but not as many.
Some of those kids will continue to be studs but the majority will the competition catch up to them in the next couple years. Especially when they move up to the full-size fields.
redline248 said:
What are the thoughts on private hitting lessons for an 8 year old? Half hour couple times a month?
It definitely depends on finding a good coach.
Personally, I look at it from a couple angles:
1) I'm more likely to do more harm than good from a mechanical perspective. Plus, a good coach can identify a lot of things I can't. And that coach can likely actually throw consistent strikes that I can't.
2) The cost is easily offset by not having to get on BP meds for losing my cool trying to coach somebody as hard-headed as me and I'm saving on future therapy bills, for both myself and my boys.
The 13U-Major final was on the field next to my kid's school team game yesterday. Wily Taveras, Jr new team Wildcatters won it. We'd previously played him when they were with Los Tigres. This new team can also, not surprisingly, hit the cover off the ball.
A dad on the losing team got kicked out for yelling at the PG people that they only cared about money, not player safety. It was most entertaining. If
On the hidden ball trick, I wouldn't call it chicken***t, but definitely bush league.
A dad on the losing team got kicked out for yelling at the PG people that they only cared about money, not player safety. It was most entertaining. If
On the hidden ball trick, I wouldn't call it chicken***t, but definitely bush league.
What exactly did that dad think was unsafe?
I missed the start of it, but I am fairly certain he was mad that the concession stand was closed and there was not a water jug provided by PG. A dad on the Wildcatters shouted out: "why didn't you bring your son water if you are so concerned about safety?" I laughed.
Panama Red said:
The 13U-Major final was on the field next to my kid's school team game yesterday. Wily Taveras, Jr new team Wildcatters won it. We'd previously played him when they were with Los Tigres. This new team can also, not surprisingly, hit the cover off the ball.
A dad on the losing team got kicked out for yelling at the PG people that they only cared about money, not player safety. It was most entertaining. If
On the hidden ball trick, I wouldn't call it chicken***t, but definitely bush league.
There were two 13U major divisions. Wildcatters - Gross (Taveras's team- I assume he's the son of former Astro, Wily Taveras, right?) won the 54/80 division. Which means the pitchers' mound is at 54' and the bases are 80'. There were 21 teams in that division from around the country and definitely strong competition. That Wildcatters team had to play 7 games in 3 days to win it and they went 6-1. They played great baseball and are a really good team.
However, the top ranked teams in 13U major played in the 60/90 division. Meaning they played on the big boy fields with 60'6" mounds and 90' bases. There were 64 teams in that division and without delving too deeply into it to ensure I didn't miss anybody it appears every single one of the top-35 13U teams in the country PG ranked out of the fall was in that division and a large number of "honorable mentions" too.
SBA Bolts National out of Charlotte, NC won that division. They gave up 5 runs in 7 games and scored 60. And they had 4 players on their roster from Texas, 2 from Georgia, and one kid each from VA, AZ, WA, NY, IL, FL, Puerto Rico, and Nuevo Leon in Mexico.
Basically the entire Los Tigres team and coaches were "bought" by Wildcatters. I'm not sure how much turnover they've had but Most of the Wildcatters teams have had a lot of turnover from season to season.
Quote:
A dad on the losing team got kicked out for yelling at the PG people that they only cared about money, not player safety. It was most entertaining.
There are times when it is clear it is all about the money. We were at a tournament at Premier on November 19/20. All tournaments in the area were already cancelled. The temperature was in the mid/upper 30s and raining for our 8am game. The home plate umpire started the game (of course), but placed a weather delay after the first inning. He did not have the proper shoes for rain. The umpire on the field actually used an umbrella for the bottom half of the inning. We waited for 20 minutes while he argued with the tournament director over the phone. The games at Premier were cancelled, but we were not issued refunds for parking. We were told to show our parking pass the next day and we would be granted entry. When we showed up the next day......we were required to pay another entry fee and they conveniently forgot about the comments from the prior day. I understand Perfect Game doesn't control the parking at Premier, but they knew the field conditions were not suitable for playing with the weather.
The one day tournament on Sunday had areas in the outfield with large puddles. They made no effort to clear the water.
Outside the big PG tournaments those the only PG tournaments we will play if I'm coaching a team. Then rest of the schedule is V Tool. V Tool runs their tournaments a lot better IMO.
Surprised they cancelled at all. Premier is famous for playing in weather that everyone is aware is unplayable.
Yeah, I don't get it at all. I understand a kid's age may say he's 12u eligible. But if he's in 7th grade, he's 13u. Most of those 7th graders on the nationally ranked teams can hang at the 13u major level. I think their parents are doing them a disservice. For what? I understand why the organizations want to do it. But in those circumstances, the organizations are not looking out for the best interests of the kids.
The youth V Tool tournaments in Houston are terrible. They typically don't make outside of the AA level. I like the V Tool four game format, but all of the upper level teams stick to PG and do nothing but complain about it. I'd rather play V Tool or USSSA at Scrapyard, but the competition just isn't there.
Yea on the youth side 14u & Under correct. Myself as one of the Bandito head operations directors I coach HS age scout teams. V Tool on the HS age level is what I was referring too.
Bassmaster said:
Yeah, I don't get it at all. I understand a kid's age may say he's 12u eligible. But if he's in 7th grade, he's 13u. Most of those 7th graders on the nationally ranked teams can hang at the 13u major level. I think their parents are doing them a disservice. For what? I understand why the organizations want to do it. But in those circumstances, the organizations are not looking out for the best interests of the kids.
Maybe the parents want their kid to be a stud rather than "hang." But it all rolls downhill (or would it be uphills?). There are plenty of 8th graders playing 13U too.
Personally, I'd rather my kid scrap for PT and have tougher competition than play down and be a stud. But some of these kids, like those throwing 80, who could be studs in 13U too.
TarponChaser said:Bassmaster said:
Yeah, I don't get it at all. I understand a kid's age may say he's 12u eligible. But if he's in 7th grade, he's 13u. Most of those 7th graders on the nationally ranked teams can hang at the 13u major level. I think their parents are doing them a disservice. For what? I understand why the organizations want to do it. But in those circumstances, the organizations are not looking out for the best interests of the kids.
Maybe the parents want their kid to be a stud rather than "hang." But it all rolls downhill (or would it be uphills?). There are plenty of 8th graders playing 13U too.
Personally, I'd rather my kid scrap for PT and have tougher competition than play down and be a stud. But some of these kids, like those throwing 80, who could be studs in 13U too.
This is always going to be a factor. Some of these kids may have like late spring/early summer DOB so they eligible to play down. I can say I see both sides of it and it's not going to change
BurnetAggie99 said:TarponChaser said:Bassmaster said:
Yeah, I don't get it at all. I understand a kid's age may say he's 12u eligible. But if he's in 7th grade, he's 13u. Most of those 7th graders on the nationally ranked teams can hang at the 13u major level. I think their parents are doing them a disservice. For what? I understand why the organizations want to do it. But in those circumstances, the organizations are not looking out for the best interests of the kids.
Maybe the parents want their kid to be a stud rather than "hang." But it all rolls downhill (or would it be uphills?). There are plenty of 8th graders playing 13U too.
Personally, I'd rather my kid scrap for PT and have tougher competition than play down and be a stud. But some of these kids, like those throwing 80, who could be studs in 13U too.
This is always going to be a factor. Some of these kids may have like late spring/early summer DOB so they eligible to play down. I can say I see both sides of it and it's not going to change
That's the debate, grade vs age level. Like my oldest has a July birthday and could play 12U but he's in 7th so he plays 13U but won't be 13 until July. There are some kids he plays who are more than a full year older. Our 8-year old has an August birthday and is in 3rd grade but plays 8U. He'll jump to play on grade level in a couple years. Probably skip from 10U to 12U like his big brother.
At our tournament in Waco last weekend, I saw some big kids playing so I went and watched a bit. These kids were huge, and I was thinking, cool some high school kids are playing. Nope, 13u. They were big and fast, it was impressive really.
why not just change the birthday cutoff to August or September? I don't understand the logic of having it in May or june.
anyone know how that started?
anyone know how that started?
BMX Bandit said:
why not just change the birthday cutoff to August or September? I don't understand the logic of having it in May or june.
anyone know how that started?
The age cut-off for PG is April 30. I think they started doing it that way because they figured folks with birthdays from May to August would hold their kids back a year so they would be the oldest in their graduation class rather than the youngest.
And PG, along with other "select" sanctioning bodies, used to just be HS. I'm not sure if they had hard age cut-offs before they branched out into youth ages. All the kids were HS-age and I think they would just have age groups based on HS graduation class. But this would be back in the late-90's/early-00's. I think Little League Baseball and PONY have August age cut-off but not 100% sure- like maybe August 15 or something. I know when I was in HS (graduated in '95) they started a Connie Mack league (under the American Amateur Baseball Congress) for HS summer ball that was 18U but we had kids who were 15 playing so the kids were all 15-18.
There's always been folks doing the "Louisiana Redshirt" for kids so that their kid had an extra year of maturity to help in sports. Malcolm Gladwell wrote about how in Canada and the NHL youth hockey has a hard 12/31 age cut off for youth hockey and while I forget the exact figures the gist of it was that kids born in January-March were disproportionately represented vs. kids born October-December. Somebody else did a similar analysis for MLB too. In both cases it was attributed to an extra year of maturity so kids who were bigger, stronger, and more mature physically got more reps etc.
I don't think most of these folks are reading Gladwell but they intuitively figure that if their kid is older and more mature than the rest of the kids in their age class then they can be more dominant but bottom line, there have always been people trying to game the system and as youth sports have exploded it's a ripple effect so more and more parents do it and do it at younger ages.
Louisiana Redshirt, that's a new term
I'm sure that is a big part of it.TarponChaser said:Bassmaster said:
Yeah, I don't get it at all. I understand a kid's age may say he's 12u eligible. But if he's in 7th grade, he's 13u. Most of those 7th graders on the nationally ranked teams can hang at the 13u major level. I think their parents are doing them a disservice. For what? I understand why the organizations want to do it. But in those circumstances, the organizations are not looking out for the best interests of the kids.
Maybe the parents want their kid to be a stud rather than "hang." But it all rolls downhill (or would it be uphills?). There are plenty of 8th graders playing 13U too.
Personally, I'd rather my kid scrap for PT and have tougher competition than play down and be a stud. But some of these kids, like those throwing 80, who could be studs in 13U too.
I agree with you. My oldest is in 5th grade and 11u eligible, but plays 12u. Could he do a lot more damage in 11u? Sure, but he loves his coaches and teammates and has been with them since 9u. When the team inevitably breaks up, whether it be when his teammates get to high school or before, he'll drop down and play his grade. He isn't the best player on his team and has to fight for everything he gets. He's a grinder and tough as hell because of it.
Does anyone have experience using Swingrail? Showed up as an ad on my wife's Facebook or something.
I think it's a gimmick but the idea is idea of getting your hands inside the ball or getting an optimal swing path. That's something that's not new. Coaches/instructors been working with players on that for generations.
If kids are not strong enough to drive the knob to the ball, then it won't work. The lack of strength the bat will not come off the rail. Younger players who lack adequate strength find serious frustration in getting it to work. So why I say Swingrail is kinda a gimmick.
You be better off working in cage/tee on proven inside drills & bat path drills. That's my opinion on what I think and what I've seen from kids that have tried to use it working with a parent.
If kids are not strong enough to drive the knob to the ball, then it won't work. The lack of strength the bat will not come off the rail. Younger players who lack adequate strength find serious frustration in getting it to work. So why I say Swingrail is kinda a gimmick.
You be better off working in cage/tee on proven inside drills & bat path drills. That's my opinion on what I think and what I've seen from kids that have tried to use it working with a parent.
My initial impression was leaning "gimmick," as well. Thanks for the feedback
Our experience with V Tool for HS kids has been good. And they do a good job posting video and comments for tournament and for high school games.
Regarding kids playing up, by the time the kids are rising sophomores we have seen most of them play on teams that are their graduating class.
Regarding kids playing up, by the time the kids are rising sophomores we have seen most of them play on teams that are their graduating class.
I would do lessons at 8 unless he asked to do it.redline248 said:
What are the thoughts on private hitting lessons for an 8 year old? Half hour couple times a month?
Loved just scrolling through this thread. I'm done with select baseball because my youngest son is a freshman at a Juco. I do miss watching the kids play and being with the parents at a ballfield. Enjoy the ride. Here are a few tips from someone who did this journey twice:
1) If your son is one of the best out there in LL at 7U-8U, and he likes baseball, it's time to move on to select.
2) Join an organization with a structure from youth ball to HS. The coach needs to be someone with previous playing/coaching experience who DOES NOT have a kid on the team. I would never have my kids play on a Dad coached team unless it was a guest play with friends just for fun.
3) Start lessons when your son asks for them. Typically that is 9U, maybe earlier for some. If your son isn't interested in lessons that should be a red flag.
4) Start athletic training at 11U. Every kid has body changes BEFORE puberty starts and it can make them feel unconfident in their abilities. Training will never stop until they stop playing baseball.
5) Do not play baseball from Thanksgiving to Valentines. Don't play baseball in August. He'll play longer into July as they age. Fall ball is about reps and working on new positions or flaws.
6) Position players are low man on the recruiting totem pole. Pitching is the easiest route to baseball after HS. If your son likes catching buy the mask. They tend to end up a level higher than they would be if they were at a different position.
7) Learn multiple positions. I noticed as my son progressed through select baseball many kids were pigeonholed into one position. Luckily my son's organization made every player have a primary and secondary position. Believe it or not there's a kid on my son's Juco team who is a corner but doesn't know how to play 1st. Corners should be able to play both; middle infielders should be able to play both. Lucky for my son's teammate he can hit.
8) Take fielding lessons. My son did and he's one of the better fielders on his team. It allowed him more opportunities to play multiple positions - even in college.
My son played for the same organization from 8U-18U. He's played with and against many players who are currently D1, including with four current Aggie freshman and two sophomores. Unless you are a high D1 player you will find yourself at a Juco by Nov of your freshman year. As long as there is a free transfer, the portal will be here to stay for college baseball, and it will keep D1 baseball older for the time being. Texas Jucos are a great place to start because your kids will play. The D1 coaches and scouts come out to watch - games are Mon/Wed/Sat and typically double headers. It's about playing well in front of the right person. One of my friends whose son is at a different Juco had an MLB scout looking at one of their players, but that same player had 1 hit and struck out 5 times vs my son's team. Go figure. I know of plenty of stories just like that.
1) If your son is one of the best out there in LL at 7U-8U, and he likes baseball, it's time to move on to select.
2) Join an organization with a structure from youth ball to HS. The coach needs to be someone with previous playing/coaching experience who DOES NOT have a kid on the team. I would never have my kids play on a Dad coached team unless it was a guest play with friends just for fun.
3) Start lessons when your son asks for them. Typically that is 9U, maybe earlier for some. If your son isn't interested in lessons that should be a red flag.
4) Start athletic training at 11U. Every kid has body changes BEFORE puberty starts and it can make them feel unconfident in their abilities. Training will never stop until they stop playing baseball.
5) Do not play baseball from Thanksgiving to Valentines. Don't play baseball in August. He'll play longer into July as they age. Fall ball is about reps and working on new positions or flaws.
6) Position players are low man on the recruiting totem pole. Pitching is the easiest route to baseball after HS. If your son likes catching buy the mask. They tend to end up a level higher than they would be if they were at a different position.
7) Learn multiple positions. I noticed as my son progressed through select baseball many kids were pigeonholed into one position. Luckily my son's organization made every player have a primary and secondary position. Believe it or not there's a kid on my son's Juco team who is a corner but doesn't know how to play 1st. Corners should be able to play both; middle infielders should be able to play both. Lucky for my son's teammate he can hit.
8) Take fielding lessons. My son did and he's one of the better fielders on his team. It allowed him more opportunities to play multiple positions - even in college.
My son played for the same organization from 8U-18U. He's played with and against many players who are currently D1, including with four current Aggie freshman and two sophomores. Unless you are a high D1 player you will find yourself at a Juco by Nov of your freshman year. As long as there is a free transfer, the portal will be here to stay for college baseball, and it will keep D1 baseball older for the time being. Texas Jucos are a great place to start because your kids will play. The D1 coaches and scouts come out to watch - games are Mon/Wed/Sat and typically double headers. It's about playing well in front of the right person. One of my friends whose son is at a different Juco had an MLB scout looking at one of their players, but that same player had 1 hit and struck out 5 times vs my son's team. Go figure. I know of plenty of stories just like that.
TAMU1990 said:
Loved just scrolling through this thread. I'm done with select baseball because my youngest son is a freshman at a Juco. I do miss watching the kids play and being with the parents at a ballfield. Enjoy the ride. Here are a few tips from someone who did this journey twice:
1) If your son is one of the best out there in LL at 7U-8U, and he likes baseball, it's time to move on to select.
<snip>
One of my friends whose son is at a different Juco had an MLB scout looking at one of their players, but that same player had 1 hit and struck out 5 times vs my son's team. Go figure. I know of plenty of stories just like that.
Great post and I agree with all of it. You mind sharing which organization your son played with?
Regarding item 1 and moving into select, I'd also ad that even if you kid isn't one of the best but likes baseball and shows they want to work to get better then moving to select is probably a good idea. Even the absolute best kid in LL will often struggle when they first start select. Other than being big, strong, and fast my oldest wasn't remotely near the best in LL but he saw top-level select kids at the same age and flat out said he wanted to play with kids at that level and would do work to get there. If kids want to work at it and have the slightest ability they will improve rapidly.
Regarding the kid getting scouted- the scouts already know the kid can play. They're there to see how he handles adversity, how he interacts with his teammates & coaches, and so forth. They don't expect a kid to go 2-5 every game. They want to see he kid who's hitting .340+ have a bad night and see how he responds.
Sure. My sons played at the Twelve. I have friends who are at Hunter Pence (who used to be at the 12) and they like it. I do like you are grouped with your local area teams when they are in youth ball. When they get into the HS program it's a good prep for what to expect in college. My sons enjoyed their time playing for the 12.TarponChaser said:TAMU1990 said:
Loved just scrolling through this thread. I'm done with select baseball because my youngest son is a freshman at a Juco. I do miss watching the kids play and being with the parents at a ballfield. Enjoy the ride. Here are a few tips from someone who did this journey twice:
1) If your son is one of the best out there in LL at 7U-8U, and he likes baseball, it's time to move on to select.
<snip>
One of my friends whose son is at a different Juco had an MLB scout looking at one of their players, but that same player had 1 hit and struck out 5 times vs my son's team. Go figure. I know of plenty of stories just like that.
Great post and I agree with all of it. You mind sharing which organization your son played with?
Regarding item 1 and moving into select, I'd also ad that even if you kid isn't one of the best but likes baseball and shows they want to work to get better then moving to select is probably a good idea. Even the absolute best kid in LL will often struggle when they first start select. Other than being big, strong, and fast my oldest wasn't remotely near the best in LL but he saw top-level select kids at the same age and flat out said he wanted to play with kids at that level and would do work to get there. If kids want to work at it and have the slightest ability they will improve rapidly.
Regarding the kid getting scouted- the scouts already know the kid can play. They're there to see how he handles adversity, how he interacts with his teammates & coaches, and so forth. They don't expect a kid to go 2-5 every game. They want to see he kid who's hitting .340+ have a bad night and see how he responds.
When I was saying "one of the best in LL" I'm referring to there is a core group of kids that stand out in every age group. Either by being savvy/intellectually into the game and can play or those who are athletically ahead of their peers (and these kids tend to be bigger than most). I agree there are kids who just love the game and want to be around others who will push them to get better. They need to move on as well.
As for the scouting situation, I should say "have" instead of "had". They were not there to watch that kid. My friend's team was playing McLennan. I love playing them because everyone comes out for McLennan. This was a situation of getting noticed because you made an opportunity for yourself on that day. Happened in a different situation to a kid who got an OU offer by playing well on the right day in front of the right person. My sons' coaches always stressed just because they aren't here to watch you, they may just end up watching you.
Twelve is a great organization.
If there were an established team within an hour and a half of us they would have been high on our list. But both my boys have played Twelve teams numerous times and the teams are always well coached and the parents/fans are pretty respectful.
If there were an established team within an hour and a half of us they would have been high on our list. But both my boys have played Twelve teams numerous times and the teams are always well coached and the parents/fans are pretty respectful.
I am going to edit this out and give a better explanation of my ire towards PG in another post. I was pissed last night but shouldn't be directly calling an individual out. My bad.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
agsalaska said:
Neil Tobias running the complete ****house moneygrab con that he can is still holding out on where we play this weekend.
**** him. And **** Perfect Game. This never happened with USSSA.
Definitely like to know the story here. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to put it in the forum chat. Also maybe I can help you cause I know some high level PG folks.
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