2023 youth baseball/softball check-in

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Dr. Doctor
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4:58p, 4/15/24
AG
We played this weekend on an 11u team but my son is 10u. Saturday we played and hit 11 but Sunday 2 missing players came back. So we had 14? My son played the championship game but didn't hit. Couple of other players were the same.

Had we known we'd probably have sat out Sunday, as we didn't finish till 1030pm. Again.

He did pinch run a couple of times.

~egon
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agsalaska
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In reply to Quito • 5:05p, 4/15/24
AG
Quito said:
Sounds like the way it should be! Good for your boy, coach, and teammates.

We are in another situation. At what age do you think it's appropriate for coach to not play kids in the field and only bat them during bracket play on Sundays? Keep in mind I'm talking competitive team, not rec.

Is it ever ok? Is it ok at 9, 10, 11, 12? What does texags say?


Seems to me it would be the other way around. But it should happen every game is you are carrying 12 kids. If you are not carrying 12 kids you do not have enough players to protect their arms. The math just doesn't work.

That math problem only gets worse if they are only batting and not playing in the field.

That being said in 12u we carry 12 but bat 10 with a DH. So that's 11 kids in the game 10 in the lineup. The relief pitcher is the one on the bench. He does not always sub in for the pitcher in the lineup when he comes in. Sometimes he subs in for the EH. But we have done this in all but maybe two of our games this year. In one final we only had 11 and batted all 11.

I think it depends entirely on how competitive you want it to be and how much you value you put in arm care. But at 9u-13u it should really be about fun first. As long as they are having fun b
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.



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aggielax48
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5:24p, 4/15/24
AG
I'll preface by saying my son's have never played Majors level, so perhaps its different. But I've seen this as low as 9U, interestingly, its generally the bad teams that do it that young. I always thought, you probably aren't going to win anyway so just play the game. My 10U players has never been apart of a team that did this.

My oldest, this started happening in 12U. Wasn't a fan, but definitely saw an uptick in it. At 13U I think it is more common. Teams seem to carry more players. You get the players that aren't great in the field but conversely are stuggling at the plate get sat down. Doesn't bother me that much, these kids are 18 months from HS. I think its time they really learn you gotta earn your playing time, its not just mom and dad's money doing the work.
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Dr. Doctor
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In reply to aggielax48 • 8:49a, 4/16/24
AG
aggielax48 said:
I'll preface by saying my son's have never played Majors level, so perhaps its different. But I've seen this as low as 9U, interestingly, its generally the bad teams that do it that young. I always thought, you probably aren't going to win anyway so just play the game. My 10U players has never been apart of a team that did this.

My oldest, this started happening in 12U. Wasn't a fan, but definitely saw an uptick in it. At 13U I think it is more common. Teams seem to carry more players. You get the players that aren't great in the field but conversely are stuggling at the plate get sat down. Doesn't bother me that much, these kids are 18 months from HS. I think its time they really learn you gotta earn your playing time, its not just mom and dad's money doing the work.
Our group of teams (7 to 12U) doesn't do this, at least at the 10 and 11U level. This past weekend I think was odd, as several 10U play up on the 11U team, generally. We just ended up with a lot of kids and then sat them. But on the normal 10U Maj team my son's on, we only have 10? players. For the 10AAA team, there are 10 again. And I have seen a bit of movement with players around positions (pitcher going to 1st, then to outfield; 3rd to 1st to SS, etc.)

Watching our 12U teams, I don't think we carry extra players unless some 11U kids want to play up. But then, I think the coach(es) try to keep it to 12 kids total. Not like some 9U teams I remember seeing last year rolling up with 15+ kids in some tournaments.

~egon
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agsalaska
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In reply to Dr. Doctor • 9:09a, 4/16/24
AG
Quote:
But on the normal 10U Maj team my son's on, we only have 10? players. For the 10AAA team, there are 10 again.
I promise not to **** on this every time I see it, but that should not be allowed. It is just ridiculous. One day we will learn.

Our doctor just last weekend picked up another 12 year old baseball player. Stress fractures in his humeral head?(I think). Where is humerus bones meet his shoulder. Kid was their best pitcher and never sat. He will not play baseball again this year.

I will let it go now.


The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.



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Dr. Doctor
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In reply to agsalaska • 9:22a, 4/16/24
AG
There were 12 at the start but after 2 tournaments, 2 dropped due to their own drama. But we have 5 or 6 pitchers and rotate kids.

One thing about one of our better pitchers is his efficiency. He's had a few 50 pitch, 6 inning games. Maybe 5 because they ended the game. I haven't seen our kids, at least in game changer, go past about 60-70 in a game.

Head coach is old HS coach who watches for these things and his goal is to get his kids into HS teams.

~egon
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agsalaska
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In reply to Dr. Doctor • 10:11a, 4/16/24
AG
Dr. Doctor said:
There were 12 at the start but after 2 tournaments, 2 dropped due to their own drama. But we have 5 or 6 pitchers and rotate kids.

One thing about one of our better pitchers is his efficiency. He's had a few 50 pitch, 6 inning games. Maybe 5 because they ended the game. I haven't seen our kids, at least in game changer, go past about 60-70 in a game.

Head coach is old HS coach who watches for these things and his goal is to get his kids into HS teams.

~egon
OK. I am glad he watches these things and it is at least on his mind.

Just understand that if they throw 70 in a game they should not play baseball again that day or the next day. Period. None. Not 1b, not hiding them in LF telling them to hit their cutoff, none. Zero.

If you only have 5 or 6 pitchers rotating through 25 innings of baseball with only one kid on the bench, it is 100% impossible to do that safely.

Your team may, for now at least, get away with it or at least think they are getting away with it. But they are certainly abusing arms. No question about it.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.



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PhatMack19
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In reply to Quito • 12:51p, 4/16/24
AG
Quito said:
Sounds like the way it should be! Good for your boy, coach, and teammates.

We are in another situation. At what age do you think it's appropriate for coach to not play kids in the field and only bat them during bracket play on Sundays? Keep in mind I'm talking competitive team, not rec.

Is it ever ok? Is it ok at 9, 10, 11, 12? What does texags say?


I wouldn't play for a team that didn't roster bat and play everyone before probably 14u. After that you start seeing more PO's. It's all about development before that and they won't learn anything sitting and watching.

My kids move around and know how to play every position on the field. All of them pitch. We have a ton of rings. I'm more worried about having them ready to step on the field in HS at any position they are needed.
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agsalaska
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In reply to PhatMack19 • 3:01p, 4/16/24
AG
Quote:
My kids move around and know how to play every position on the field. All of them pitch. We have a ton of rings. I'm more worried about having them ready to step on the field in HS at any position they are needed.
Ill leave the first paragraph alone,

but this has been our focus since day one. Every single kid on our team can play any position on the field. Even our only lefty is a low AAA grade catcher.

I had a conversation just last week with one of our HS coaches. The main problem with kids coming into high school are 1. burned out arms and 2. knowing how to play multiple positions.

Our kids will make Varsity long before others around here because we give proper care to arms and our kids play everywhere.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.



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evestor1
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In reply to agsalaska • 3:31p, 4/16/24
agsalaska said:
Quote:
I had a conversation just last week with one of our HS coaches. The main problem with kids coming into high school are 1. burned out arms and 2. knowing how to play multiple positions.
heard a high school coach at a 6a in Houston area say [every year i get 20 kids that can play short, 10 that can pitch, 2 that can catch. I still haven't gotten a good outfielder b/c they never played it growing up]
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TarponChaser
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In reply to evestor1 • 10:09a, 4/18/24
evestor1 said:
agsalaska said:
Quote:
I had a conversation just last week with one of our HS coaches. The main problem with kids coming into high school are 1. burned out arms and 2. knowing how to play multiple positions.
heard a high school coach at a 6a in Houston area say [every year i get 20 kids that can play short, 10 that can pitch, 2 that can catch. I still haven't gotten a good outfielder b/c they never played it growing up]

Which HS is that? My oldest loves OF and is good at it.

At roughly the halfway point of this spring both boys have been up & down.

My older one has been playing on both 14AAA and 14maj. Team success has been mixed. For some reason the AAA doesn't show up much on Saturdays but on Sunday turns it on an plays well. The major team has been better and while they haven't won as much on Sundays they're generally playing multiple games vs better opposition. In the field, when playing OF he's been really good. A few teams have tried to run on him and they only do that once as he's got 3 OF assists throwing kids out at home (2 from LF and 1 from RF). Been playing lots more 1B even though he doesn't really like it but that's to get him reps there and keep him in the lineup after he's pitched. He's also really been banging at the plate- hitting .438 with a 1.061 OPS at AAA and .385 with a .900 OPS at major. On the bump he started slowly because we had to find a new pitching coach who has tweaked his mechanics some and he's finally getting comfortable with it and his control has been getting dialed in. The first 10 innings he pitched this spring he had 12 Ks and 14 BB but the last 5 innings pitched has 9 Ks and 4 BB. Hasn't hit it on DiamondKast yet but has been touching 80 in bullpens and sitting 75 in games.

My younger one's season has been really rough so far from a team perspective. He joined a new team playing up at 10AAA in the same org as our older one and 6 of the kids on the team have big brothers playing 14U in the same org but the other 6 kids have some athletic talent but haven't played select baseball before. There's a visible difference and the biggest issue is confidence in games. Way too many of the boys play scared and timid and when they make a mistake they're falling to pieces. Coaches are really trying to get them to flip their mental approach. It's hard to say if the stats are accurate because I haven't been able to be at a bunch of the games so I don't know if the dad doing GameChanger is keeping an honest book (like, is he giving kids hit when they should be scored as reaching on errors, etc). But the games I've been to, he's barreling up pitches regularly. Been mostly playing catcher and third (which he's never really played but he's got a strong arm). Behind the dish he's been doing well but he needs to up his baseball IQ (part of it is because he jumped from 9U in the fall to 10U now so this is only his second season of kid pitch) and I'm loving the effort and attitude I see from the kid.

Just enjoy the ride y'all. The older one will play a summer HS prep team and be in 9th grade in the fall and then **** is gonna get real.
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Farmer1906
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7:06p, 4/18/24
AG
What age do kids start getting a more specialized glove? My 7 year old wants to play first and I don't know if it's worth picking up a mitt. And if I do, I'm not even sure what size. 11.5" youth felt tiny for her but 12.5" was kind of large in the finger stalls.
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TarponChaser
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10:42p, 4/18/24
For y'all playing PG, is the DiamondKast scoring ever correct? It's annoying to pay so much and have incorrect scorekeeping.
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agsalaska
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 6:27a, 4/19/24
AG
Farmer1906 said:
What age do kids start getting a more specialized glove? My 7 year old wants to play first and I don't know if it's worth picking up a mitt. And if I do, I'm not even sure what size. 11.5" youth felt tiny for her but 12.5" was kind of large in the finger stalls.
My son played mostly 1b and OF during coach pitch and I bought him a 1b glove. It was made by Rawlings and was only about $60. Anyway he almost never wore it and eventually lost it. Now they are 12u and the kid who plays 1b for about half of our innings does wear a 1b glove. But about six kids alternate through for the other 50% of the innings and none of them have one. This is AAA/Majors level.

Point is I wouldn't worry about it.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.



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BMX Bandit
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6:38a, 4/19/24
Any recs on those shoulder ice contraptions?
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TarponChaser
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In reply to BMX Bandit • 9:07a, 4/19/24
BMX Bandit said:
Any recs on those shoulder ice contraptions?

FWIW- there's a lot of recent research which points to not icing except in the case of an acute injury and the need to bring down swelling or reduce pain via numbing.

But to your question, nope, no recs here.
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aggielax48
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9:28a, 4/19/24
AG
Agreed, was just about to post the same thing. It might feel a little better, but reducing minor inflammation on an otherwise healthy arm is just slowing the healing process.
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TarponChaser
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In reply to aggielax48 • 9:39a, 4/19/24
aggielax48 said:
Agreed, was just about to post the same thing. It might feel a little better, but reducing minor inflammation on an otherwise healthy arm is just slowing the healing process.
Arm care/recovery my older son's coaches have him do after pitching starts with doing bands, cool down jog, and stretching as soon as he's done that day. Then usually stretch and use the TheraGun later that day when we get home and he's had more time to cool off/rest. Day after is lifting weights (specifically targeting triceps, lats, and posterior deltoids), more running, and lots of stretching then TheraGun. Depending on pitch count the day before he might just play a little catch (nothing over 60' and maybe 50% effort- just enough to get the blood flowing and loosen up) but that would be for a pitch count under about 50. If he's at 80+ he doesn't throw for a couple days.

The latest research shows that the minor inflammation and lactic acid which cause soreness are actually promoting healing.

The routine is sort of akin to lifting different, opposing muscle groups on alternating days. The point of lifts targeting those muscle groups is that they are often elongated and stretched out by pitching so you're trying to strengthen those groups and have them move in an opposite direction.
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agsalaska
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10:02a, 4/19/24
AG
To further Tarpons point

One major mistake we made that led to my sons injury was battling soreness with ice and occasional ibuprofen. That was a big mistake on our part because it masked problems and made him feel better and us more confident that his elbow was healthy when in fact the growth plate issues were already starting. We have been advised not to use either unless treating an actual injury but not for regular soreness.



Also, on a side note, had a young lady(freshman) tell me yesterday that her boyfriend missed a year and a half with little league elbow and finally this season was able to pitch again. Crazy how often it happens and even crazier how little it is discussed. It should be shouted from rooftops
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.



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TarponChaser
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In reply to agsalaska • 10:39a, 4/19/24
It's also important to teach the kids to differentiate between pain and soreness. It's hard for me to convey on here but it's basically the difference between where and how the arm feels. And this is one place where lifting weights has helped because it gives a bit of a baseline experience.

If the arm is sore in the muscles (especially triceps and delts) like you would get from lifting weights or hard exercise then that's not a big deal. That's just normal rest and recovery. But you do need to watch out and be mindful of this normal fatigue negatively impacting mechanics which can lead to structural issues.

However, if it's more sharp pain in the elbow or shoulder joint or running from the wrist up to elbow and in the forearm, those are generally signs of a problem which requires more than just rest & recovery. Anything anywhere like this is time to see a doctor.

Like, I asked my 13-year old how his arm felt on Wednesday after he had thrown 80'ish pitches over the weekend (it's a daily topic of discussion to see how he's feeling) but didn't throw Monday or Tuesday and in typical teen fashion he just sort of grunted, "Meh." And I kind of jumped his butt to let him know that's not an acceptable response. He needs to be able to say "my arm is just tired and sore from lifting" because "Meh" can indicate actual pain. Tired and sore means he'll probably not throw for a day but can still lift, do ROM stuff, stretch, plyometrics, etc. But if it hurts we need to look into it more. Thankfully he's never said that it hurts.
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agsalaska
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In reply to TarponChaser • 10:49a, 4/19/24
AG
Agreed.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.



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evestor1
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In reply to TarponChaser • 11:38a, 4/19/24
TarponChaser said:
evestor1 said:
agsalaska said:
Quote:
heard a high school coach at a 6a in Houston area say [every year i get 20 kids that can play short, 10 that can pitch, 2 that can catch. I still haven't gotten a good outfielder b/c they never played it growing up]

Which HS is that? My oldest loves OF and is good at it.
Humble HS. I am sure you've met Robbie. He lives in kingwood.
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TarponChaser
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In reply to evestor1 • 12:56p, 4/19/24
evestor1 said:
TarponChaser said:
evestor1 said:
agsalaska said:
Quote:
heard a high school coach at a 6a in Houston area say [every year i get 20 kids that can play short, 10 that can pitch, 2 that can catch. I still haven't gotten a good outfielder b/c they never played it growing up]

Which HS is that? My oldest loves OF and is good at it.
Humble HS. I am sure you've met Robbie. He lives in kingwood.

I know the name but haven't met him that I can recall. My boys are zoned to Summer Creek. But with all the changes in the district it's not at all unlikely that my younger one in 4th grade right now will end up zoned to a different HS than my older one who is currently in 8th grade.
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BMX Bandit
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In reply to TarponChaser • 1:38p, 4/20/24
TarponChaser said:
BMX Bandit said:
Any recs on those shoulder ice contraptions?

FWIW- there's a lot of recent research which points to not icing except in the case of an acute injury and the need to bring down swelling or reduce pain via numbing.

But to your question, nope, no recs here.



Appreciate the info. Link on that study?
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TarponChaser
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In reply to BMX Bandit • 3:42p, 4/20/24
Even the guy who started the RICE protocol for icing has changed his position on it.

Here's some info:
https://advance.muschealth.org/library/2022/september/ice-on-acute-injuries#:~:text=The%20application%20of%20ice%20acts,reach%20the%20site%20of%20damage.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8173427/

https://blog.armcare.com/ice-post-pitching/#:~:text=In%201978%2C%20Dr.,reverse%20effect%20and%20inhibit%20healing.


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TarponChaser
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3:44p, 4/20/24
More and baseball specific:

https://www.abca.org/magazine/magazine/2020-3-May_June/Why_Icing_Your_Arm_Does_More_Harm_Than_Good.aspx

https://www.nationalpitching.com/blog/youth-pitching-dont-ice-arm/

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TarponChaser
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4:20p, 4/20/24
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C59s71CL7AX/?igsh=MW9yb2Vkb2kxY3FkOQ
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BMX Bandit
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In reply to TarponChaser • 8:07a, 4/21/24
Thank you!
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PhatMack19
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In reply to TarponChaser • 4:58p, 4/21/24
AG
TarponChaser said:
For y'all playing PG, is the DiamondKast scoring ever correct? It's annoying to pay so much and have incorrect scorekeeping.

It's usually kids doing it that either aren't paying attention or don't know baseball. I have done DK in a few games when the kids didn't show up. I will defend them a little. It is way less user friendly than GameChanger. It glitches and thinks for minutes at a time causing you to miss multiple pitches. It randomly added a run somewhere and I couldn't figure out where it was or how to get rid of it without deleting the whole inning until it went away. Entering the lineup correctly before the game isn't as easy as it should be. Coaches giving half lineups doesn't help. Yes I blame the kids keeping score for a lot of it, but the diamondkast system isn't great. It is useful to keep up with other games though.
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PhatMack19
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5:08p, 4/21/24
AG
I was watching the #1- 12u team in the country last night at the NiT in Beaumont. They are unreal. They had the last game and were up 16-0 in the 4th. Their pitcher intentionally balked two times to give up a run. Final was 16-1. That was weird.

I started looking at it. The #3 team in the county would have been on the same side of the bracket without the balks. I guess they didn't want to play them until the championship.
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agsalaska
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11:53p, 4/21/24
AG
We had a chance to pull away in Franklin and stunk this weekend. Went 2-2 and are all tied up with everyone else.

We did, and I usually do not ***** about umpires, have the worst call I have seen in a long time end our game down a run with the tying run at third. Our kid beat out an infield single at first and somehow the ump had him out. It was so not close that the 1b jumped off the bag to fire across at our kid who rounded third and then seemed confused by the out call. I would say the ball still had about 6-8 feet to travel before hitting the glove when our kid reached the base.

I get that it happens but it sucks losing a well played game by both sides like that because the umpire just wants to go home. I didn't really expect to see that in Franklin but we did tonight. I will never ***** about a tag play because I'm pretty sure I'm wrong more often than they are, but force plays are not that hard and he blew it.

We also are going to test their zero tolerance rule on yelling at umpires. And whatever. I can count on one hand how many times in seven years I felt any of our coaches or fans crossed a line with umpires. We are like an umpires dream fan base. But miss a call like that and you can expect to hear it.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.



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PhatMack19
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In reply to PhatMack19 • 7:44a, 4/22/24
AG
PhatMack19 said:
I was watching the #1- 12u team in the country last night at the NiT in Beaumont. They are unreal. They had the last game and were up 16-0 in the 4th. Their pitcher intentionally balked two times to give up a run. Final was 16-1. That was weird.

I started looking at it. The #3 team in the county would have been on the same side of the bracket without the balks. I guess they didn't want to play them until the championship.


We went back out there to watch the championship between 2 of the best teams in the country. It was intense. Both starters were sitting 80-84 from 50 feet. Very few hits and a lot of strikeouts. Banditos won 2-0 scoring on an E5 and wild pitch. Very good game

The 11major championship game was on the next field. The size difference between the two games was unreal. Those 12's are grown ass men.



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TarponChaser
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In reply to PhatMack19 • 8:43a, 4/22/24
PhatMack19 said:
PhatMack19 said:
I was watching the #1- 12u team in the country last night at the NiT in Beaumont. They are unreal. They had the last game and were up 16-0 in the 4th. Their pitcher intentionally balked two times to give up a run. Final was 16-1. That was weird.

I started looking at it. The #3 team in the county would have been on the same side of the bracket without the balks. I guess they didn't want to play them until the championship.


We went back out there to watch the championship between 2 of the best teams in the country. It was intense. Both starters were sitting 80-84 from 50 feet. Very few hits and a lot of strikeouts. Banditos won 2-0 scoring on an E5 and wild pitch. Very good game

The 11major championship game was on the next field. The size difference between the two games was unreal. Those 12's are grown ass men.




We know a few kids on that Banditos team and more on the Wildcatters-Pendleton team. It's pretty nuts. And consider how these kids who are damn near grown are able to swing -8 bats on 225-250' fences at 50'/70'.

What's also crazy to me is the way age/grade level-exemptions are manipulated by folks with these top teams. One of the kids on that 12U Banditos team is only a couple months younger than my oldest who plays 14U.
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Quito
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In reply to TarponChaser • 9:50a, 4/22/24
AG
I don't understand why a player or parent would enjoy this. My 12U plays major and we are middle of the road major team in most tourneys we play. I love that all our games are close and competition has been good. Love the struggles and how they can overcome at times.

There are usually 1-2 top tier major teams that are only teams with chance to win unless something drastic happens
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In reply to Quito • 1:21p, 4/22/24
Quito said:
I don't understand why a player or parent would enjoy this. My 12U plays major and we are middle of the road major team in most tourneys we play. I love that all our games are close and competition has been good. Love the struggles and how they can overcome at times.

There are usually 1-2 top tier major teams that are only teams with chance to win unless something drastic happens

I guess it's folks taking Malcolm Gladwell's study of youth hockey in Canada and relative ages/birth dates to a somewhat extreme end.

Look at the roster for Banditos LLT6- they're the #3 13U team in the country and all but 2 of their players are older than my oldest who plays 14U. And I know for a fact that 6 of the 11 on their roster used to be class of 2028 but reclassified to 2029 and I'm told the one 2028 kid is in the process of reclassifying to 2029. We've been asked if we'd have our son play on age-level with 2 of these nationally-ranked 13U teams here in Houston instead of 14U and one asked us if we'd pull him out of school to home-school and reclassify to 2029- we declined.

I'm not convinced that it does any good, especially once you get to HS and are playing with older kids. I know there are 2 freshman on the varsity at Summer Creek HS where my son will attend next year. It's been a rebuilding year and the team is 14-14 but 2nd in district and just clinched a playoff spot. Anyway, one freshman has zero ABs but has 10 IP with 14 BB and 10 K with a 3.5 ERA. The other has just 27 PA over the season and a .130 BA, .200 OBP, and .330 OPS. He also has 26.1 IP with 17 BB and 37 K with a 2.13 ERA. Both of them are highly considered as prospects by PG.

So 2 kids who are studs and will be fine as they mature in HS and as long as they stay healthy and take care of business off the field both will play beyond HS, but are struggling right now vs. older, more mature players. Based on what I know of these 2 kids and families, this is the first time ever for either one that they are not the unquestioned stud and best player on their teams.

My point being that even if you hold a kid back and have them play youth baseball (14U and younger) where they're as old as they can possibly be for their division with an eye on getting ready for HS and beyond, when they get to HS they are going to have to compete with kids who are older, more mature (physically & mentally), and more experienced. If you're playing 6A baseball in Texas, unless you're an absolute freak on the level of a Bryce Harper or Mike Trout as a hitter or Josh Beckett or Clayton Kershaw as a pitcher you're going to struggle. And even those guys (except for maybe Harper) probably needed to develop physically between their respective freshman & senior seasons (Harper dropped out, got his GED, and went juco at like 16) to become as dominant as they were in HS.
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