Deluxe said:

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HarryRocket said:

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Settle a debate for me..

If the Astros had just signed Carlos Correa for 6/200 and then traded Pena to the Pirates for Bryan Reynolds and another top tier prospect

Would you have been mad?

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I thought about this a few weeks ago. Pena is one of the best assets in the game and the list of guys who wouldn't be in play if we dangled him on the trade market is very very short.

If we signed Correa and traded Pena for a top tier CF, we'd have a 1-8 LOD for the next few years, but I think our window would tighten a bit. There's also an upside case with Pena that I'd prefer to see play out wearing a Houston uniform. He and Yordan should be the long term faces of the franchise and carry our dynasty through 2030+.

Even though it's tantalizing to think about our lineup over the next 3-4 years in the scenario you outlined, I think we did the right thing by sitting tight.

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If Pena pans out and enters the upper echelon on SSs then we're going to run into the same problem as we did with Correa, the Red Sox did with Xander, and the Braves with Dansby. Someone is going to value them more and give them old man years for good money. Unless we can get him a Wander or Tatis deal, he's probably gone before 2030.

Farmer1906 said:

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If Pena pans out and enters the upper echelon on SSs then we're going to run into the same problem as we did with Correa, the Red Sox did with Xander, and the Braves with Dansby. Someone is going to value them more and give them old man years for good money. Unless we can get him a Wander or Tatis deal, he's probably gone before 2030.

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But he's got a great smile. He's also muscular. You can tell he spends alot of time working out. Besides baseball talent and ability, not sure what else you'd want in a franchise player.

Farmer1906 said:

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All true. He is spectacular on the eyes.

After we stacked our claim to the greatest dynasty of all time, similar to the Tom Brady Patriots, we'll all agree that Pena is another cog. He can stay onboard or not but this train ain't stopping.

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Agreed

HarryRocket said:

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Settle a debate for me..

If the Astros had just signed Carlos Correa for 6/200 and then traded Pena to the Pirates for Bryan Reynolds and another top tier prospect

Would you have been mad?

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Yes I'd be mad because I enjoyed not having to see that stupid pointing to the watch bit….Pena's humble confidence is refreshing to see…

Deluxe said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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If Pena pans out and enters the upper echelon on SSs then we're going to run into the same problem as we did with Correa, the Red Sox did with Xander, and the Braves with Dansby. Someone is going to value them more and give them old man years for good money. Unless we can get him a Wander or Tatis deal, he's probably gone before 2030.

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But he's got a great smile. He's also muscular. You can tell he spends alot of time working out. Besides baseball talent and ability, not sure what else you'd want in a franchise player.

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No homo, though? Ok, maybe just a little bit.

Looks like the post was edited, but Carlos is No. 99 in MLB in arm strength (88.1 mph "overall", 95 mph max), while Pena is No. 199 (84.3 mph "overall", 88.9 mph max).

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/arm-strength?type=player&year=2022&minThrows=100&pos=&team=&sortColumn=arm_overall&sortDirection=desc

Other Astros:
Meyers No. 205 (84.1 overall, 89.4 max)
Chaz No. 191 (84.6 overall, 89.5 max)
Diaz No. 124 (86.9 overall, 93.1 max)
Tucker No. 81 (88.9 overall, 93.2 max)
Yordan No. 73 (89.3 overall, 94.2 max)

The infielders as a general rule aren't throwing as hard on average as the outfielders (only 2 in the Top 50 only play infield), likely due to the fact they know how hard they need to throw it on a given play to get the out.

Just looking at max velo Carlos comes in at No. 73, while Pena comes in at No. 212.

Jose checks in at No. 349 with a max velo of 78.4.
Fortunately he's elite in most other areas.

Neither. Tequila sunrise all day.

What hood he in?

Farmer1906 said:

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lets wear both this year.

What's the best throwback Astros jersey? 🤔 pic.twitter.com/R130ggILSv

— Houston Astros (@astros) January 12, 2023

The one Pena is wearing is my all-time favorite.

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Right here with you. On both points

Outside of the 2000s unis (they weren't terrible) the Astros have had elite unis.

bigjag19 said:

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What hood he in?

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Memorial

From @MLBNetwork:@astros World Series champ Chas McCormick (@chazzyfizzz) is @MLBNow’s #10 Center Fielder right now! pic.twitter.com/bMLrDbYIPb

— Mark Berman (@MarkBermanFox26) January 13, 2023

Baseball America said:

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There isn't much projection left with McCormick, whom some scouts see as a reserve outfielder. There's a chance he can be an everyday player who chips in with his on-base skills and glove.

Astros Prospect No. 13: Chas McCormick; 2021 Scouting Report; Baseball America

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I feel like Chas played better after Brantley was hurt and Siri traded. Could be my imagination, but maybe not worrying about being sent down helped him.

Harry Dunne said:

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Baseball America said:

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There isn't much projection left with McCormick, whom some scouts see as a reserve outfielder. There's a chance he can be an everyday player who chips in with his on-base skills and glove.

Astros Prospect No. 13: Chas McCormick; 2021 Scouting Report; Baseball America

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It's fine to not project him 2 years ago. I liked Meyers future ahead. Some like Siri over him. I think it was Jet Black who thinks he still sucks after 2 good seasons.

Mathguy64 said:

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redline248 said:

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I feel like Chas played better after Brantley was hurt and Siri traded. Could be my imagination, but maybe not worrying about being sent down helped him.

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I think it's more a case that he actually played after Siri was traded.

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Good call redline. No Jake and Siri probably had a lot to do with it. He was great and July and strong in the second half.

Yep - regular playing time is a big deal.

I actually think Meyers and Siri are a lot better than people think they are as well. It doesn't help any of them getting platooned in the weird rhythmless way that Dusty does it and then getting yanked up and down from AAA. That's not good for anybody. Just look at how much better Siri did with everyday run for Tampa Bay, and it's not like that was a cellar dweller no pressure situation either.

I don't know if Siri will get his head out of his ass or if Meyers will overcome injury but I think they all have the talent to be solid or better regular centerfielders.

Farmer1906 said:

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McInnis said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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McInnis said:

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Quote:

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As for the Gibson '68 season, if you teleport him in 2023 and he throws as he did in '68 now, he probably wouldn't have a single CG because he'd get hit. With the changes to scouting, video, data, training, blah blah blah it's not the same game. I don't think it's fair to compare across eras.

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It might not be fair but at least with baseball you can do it. Imagine trying to compare stats of a current NFL player to one in the 60s. To me the worst thing about the steroid era is how badly it distorted statistics for one small time period.

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I don't think your NFL comparison is too far off for MLB. Both games are wildly different.

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I'll just let this speak for itself.

In 1960 Dick Groat led the NL in hitting with a .325 average. In 2022 Jeff Mc Neil led the NL in batting with a .326 average.

In 1960 Johnny U led the NFL in passing yards with 3099 yards. In 2022 Patrick Mahommes led the NFL with 5250 yards..

You might say but there's a lot more games played in an NFL season now than there was then. Which would be helping make my point.

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Do you think comparing batting avg over time is the same as passing yards?

That would be like me saying in 1981 the AL HR leader had 22 while in today's game it's 62, but if you look at completion % in 1945, 1989, & 2022 it was 70.3%, 70.2%, & 69.8%.

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OK, part of the reason that comparing statistics in different eras is better in baseball than football is that the length of a season hasn't changed as much in baseball although I probably didn't make that clear enough. So to take the same two years where I compared the batting average leader, let's look at home run leaders. In 1960 Ernie Banks led the league with 41, last year Schwarber led with 46.

Forever in baseball a .300 batting average has been good, 40 home runs will come close to leading the league in most years and an era of less than 3.00 is good. There are no bench marks in the NFL that span over different eras like that.