BaseballReference.com oddities

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agsalaska
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Found it.

The only players in the history of MLB with more All Star games appearances than Bill Freehan who are not in the HOF are Mark McGuire, A-Rod, Bonds, and Pete Rose.

And Freehan was a catcher!!
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
Fat Bib Fortuna
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Right, but are All-Star appearances really something you think about when you consider how great a player is? His numbers are really pedestrian year to year.
agsalaska
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Cather is a different position.
Fat Bib Fortuna
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agsalaska said:

Cather is a different position.
You're still on this?
Are you Bill Freehan?
agsalaska
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OK. In honor of this fantastic night of Iowa's cornfield baseball, this was Shoeless Joe Jackson.

Shoeless Joe


First, I had no idea he was 32 when he played his last game. I have always imagined him to be like 25 or 26. He played over 1300 games over 13 years.

He also played for three different teams which I also did not realize. Though he never played in the NL. A's Indians and White Sox.

A career batting average of .356 is absolutely phenomenal no matter what era. He was also a great power hitter for his era, hitting 54 dead ball homeruns and 168 triples. that 168 number is 26th all time, one behind Rogers Hornsby who played 900 more games.

I am not really good with WAR, but 62.2 over 1300 games sounds really good.


Edit to add the S to the man from Fort Worth with two first names



Also the first of the eight to die.
Fat Bib Fortuna
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Joe Jackson's rookie year he hit .408 and lost the batting title by 12 points to Ty Cobb.
agsalaska
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Found a good one tonight.

Ben Zobrist

Just retire in 2019. Played 1651 MLB baseball games with is a hell of an accomplishment by itself. Went to three WS winning with the KCR and the Cubs. OPB of .357.

But he played

911- 2b
661- OF
236-SS
28-DH
27-1B
8-3b
and 1 inning at pitcher allowing no runs.

The most successful utility player in modern history that I can think of.

The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
AggieEP
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Depends on what you use to qualify someone as a utility player.

Look at Craig Biggio and you'll see basically 3 full seasons as a catcher, 2.5 seasons as an outfielder and then 10+ seasons as a second baseman. His career kind of went in phases though so I don't think most would consider him a utility player.

Michael Young logged over 100 games at all 4 infield positions, but again this kind of happened in stages and not in am ad hoc manner throughout a season.

As far as an active player, Kris Bryant is kind of like a star utility player which seems to be an oxymoron.

I just think that moniker was developed mostly to describe a guy that's not an everyday player, so it's kind of hard to even apply to a guy like Zobrist.
McInnis
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AggieEP said:

Depends on what you use to qualify someone as a utility player.

Look at Craig Biggio and you'll see basically 3 full seasons as a catcher, 2.5 seasons as an outfielder and then 10+ seasons as a second baseman.
This really surprised me because I followed the Astros pretty closely during Biggio's career and did not remember him playing that much outfield. But I looked it up and he spent two full years near the end of his career in the OF before returning to 2B.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/biggicr01.shtml#all_appearances

What was the deal? Who played 2B for the Astros those two years?
agsalaska
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McInnis said:

AggieEP said:

Depends on what you use to qualify someone as a utility player.

Look at Craig Biggio and you'll see basically 3 full seasons as a catcher, 2.5 seasons as an outfielder and then 10+ seasons as a second baseman.
This really surprised me because I followed the Astros pretty closely during Biggio's career and did not remember him playing that much outfield. But I looked it up and he spent two full years near the end of his career in the OF before returning to 2B.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/biggicr01.shtml#all_appearances

What was the deal? Who played 2B for the Astros those two years?
Jeff Kent
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The Porkchop Express
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One of my favorite stats that I blindly got right on a Bullwinkles' trivia game back in the 1990s

George Brett is the only player in MLB history to have a season where he accumulated:

100 runs scored
200 hits
20+ doubles
20+ triples
20+ home runs
100+ RBI
and hit .300.

Happened in 1979 when he scored 119 runs, collected 212 hits, 42 doubles, 20 triples, 23 HR, 107 RBI and hit .329. That got him 3rd in the MVP vote, so the next year he hit .390 to ensure he won it.
WARNING: I have a deep-seated desire for others to love the Star Wars franchise as much as I do, in exactly the way I do, and get snippy and sensitive and passive-aggressive when they don't.
Corporal Punishment
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Here's one.

The 2022 Cincinnati Reds lead the majors with only 3 errors.

*they've only won 3 effing games this season.
The Porkchop Express
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Best season by 2 teammates that most people have never heard of

1929 Phillies
Chuck Klein: 43 HR, 145 RBI, .356, 219 H, 126 R, .407 OBP,
Lefty O'Doul: 32 HR, 122 RBI, .398, 254 H, 152 R, .465 OBP

Phillies hit .309 as a team and finished fifth at 71-82-1.





WARNING: I have a deep-seated desire for others to love the Star Wars franchise as much as I do, in exactly the way I do, and get snippy and sensitive and passive-aggressive when they don't.
agsalaska
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helloimustbegoing said:

Best season by 2 teammates that most people have never heard of

1929 Phillies
Chuck Klein: 43 HR, 145 RBI, .356, 219 H, 126 R, .407 OBP,
Lefty O'Doul: 32 HR, 122 RBI, .398, 254 H, 152 R, .465 OBP

Phillies hit .309 as a team and finished fifth at 71-82-1.






Wow.

Lefty O'Doul did all of that with only 19 strikeouts. That's Tony Gwynn with power.


What an odd lineup.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
agsalaska
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Amazing how much the game has changed since 1929.


In 2022 MLB players have had 20,296 PAs with 1810 BB and 4681 SOs. Avg. of .231

in 1929 for the entire season the AL had 47,878 PAs with 4031 and 3517 SOs. Avg of .284.


It is hard to compare all of MLB because the website has added the Negro Leagues. Which is great but they didn't keep accurate SO and BB statistics.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
The Porkchop Express
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10 guys in the NL hit at least .350 in 1929. Rogers Hornsby hit .380 and finished third in the batting race.

Hack Wilson led the league in strikeouts with 83, or as Joey Gallo calls it "a good 6 weeks".

WARNING: I have a deep-seated desire for others to love the Star Wars franchise as much as I do, in exactly the way I do, and get snippy and sensitive and passive-aggressive when they don't.
The Porkchop Express
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Jamie Quirk was a catcher and third baseman and had played several seasons with the Royals, then was signed and cut by the Cardinals right at the end of spring training in 1984. He wound up signing with the White Sox that May buy only played 3 games behind Carlton Fisk and Vance Law, and wound up having his contract sold to the Indians in the last 2 weeks of the 1984 season.

On September 27, 1984, the Indians, in front of a stunning home crowd of 3,752, put Quirk in to pinch hit with the scored tied at 3 vs Minnesota and 2 outs in the bottom of the ninth. He hit a walk-off home run to win the game 4-3, which propelled his old team, the Royals, past the Twins into first place with 3 games to go in the regular season.

And that was it for Quirk in Cleveland. That 1 at-bat, leaving his stats for the season with the Indians as 1 for 1 with 1 home run, giving him a batting average of 1.000, a slugging percentage of 4.000, and an OPS of 5.000.

The Royals brought him back to KC in 1985 and he won a World Series ring.

WARNING: I have a deep-seated desire for others to love the Star Wars franchise as much as I do, in exactly the way I do, and get snippy and sensitive and passive-aggressive when they don't.
bhuff111
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When Hack Wilson had 191 RBI in 1930, he had 0 RBI in 64 of the 155 games he played in. In other words, he drove in 191 runs in 91 games. If my figuring is correct, that's pretty good.
AggieEP
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The differentiating factor between driving in 120-130 and driving in 190 is likely tied to the types of RBI situations a guy has. In today's game, the big RBI guys just don't get as many lucrative bases loaded and 2nd and 3rd opportunities to get rbis in bunches.

Aaron Judge is having a great year, but 18 of his 24 home runs are solo shots. Hack Wilson had two guys in front of him that year with .430 OBPs, meaning when he did damage it was with runners on. If Judge was batting 4th for a team with Juan Soto, Yordan Alvarez and Pete Goldschmidt getting on for him, he'd probably be on pace for a 160-170 RBI year.
The Porkchop Express
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If you take out the records set before 1900, that Cubs team scored the 8th-most runs in a season, 998 in 156 games - they played a couple of extras for some tie-breakers for the pennant.

Kiki Cuyler had 134 RBi and their catcher Gabby Harnett had 122.

Wilson scored 146 runs, Cuyler scored 155, and their 3B Woody English scored 152. Three guys with 208+ hits, Wilson had 56 HR and Hartnett had 37. three guys with 12+ triples, the TEAM batted .309 with a .378 OBP and a .481 SLG average.

What's staggering is that team BA of .309 was only FOURTH in the NL.

The NY Giants hit .319 as a team, the Phillies hit .315, and the Cardinals hit .314. In fact the entire National League hit .303!

And one more stat, the Pirates hit 119 triples as a team. They had 6 guys hit at least 11, and an outfielder I've never heard of named Adam Comorosky hit 23 of them. I'm assuming old Forbes Field must have had some caverns in the OF.



WARNING: I have a deep-seated desire for others to love the Star Wars franchise as much as I do, in exactly the way I do, and get snippy and sensitive and passive-aggressive when they don't.
AggieEP
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Man, those team stats are amazing! While I would personally love to see the game resemble what it once was, I'm also smart enough to understand that it is just not possible.

No matter what new rules they try in order to change the game, you can't put a rule in that forbids pitchers from throwing 100 MPH with dirty sliders (neither of which existed in the time of Hack Wilson). Perhaps more importantly, you cannot change the fact that guys who hit 40 homeruns and strike out 150 times are in general the highest paid guys in the game. The pay structure more than almost anything else is incentivizing all of the players to strive to emulate the games of the guys who have gotten paid. (Money wasn't the factor it is today back in 1930)

George Brett, Wade Boggs and Tony Gwynn are pretty much my favorite hitters of all time, and I think that if any of them played in today's game, they would face a lot of pressure to conform in order to get paid. Luis Arraez will be a good test case, he's been the best (throwback) hitter in the game this year, and we'll just have to see how he does in arbitration this year in his first chance to get a raise. I'm guessing he doesn't break 3 million, and I'm guessing he starts looking for ways to hit more homeruns.
07ag
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https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bregmal01.shtml#all_leaderboard

under awards, bregman now has "Won Mike Trout's Fantasy Football League"
https://ts.la/eric59704
Carlo4
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2 Astros pitchers each had an immaculate inning in the same game recently against the Rangers. First time that has ever happened.
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here's the random baseball-reference oddity / surprise of the day...

Bobby Grich has a 71.1 career WAR --- the long-time Orioles & Angels second baseman.

in 1973 he was 1st in WAR in the American League.
in 1974 he was 2nd in WAR
in 1975 he was 3rd in WAR
in 1981 he was 4th in WAR

Grich has a higher career WAR than Sandberg, Biggio, and Alomar.

never got a whiff of the Hall of Fame
Corporal Punishment
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Grich was a man. I remember this unpleasant incident:

agsalaska
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helloimustbegoing said:

Jamie Quirk was a catcher and third baseman and had played several seasons with the Royals, then was signed and cut by the Cardinals right at the end of spring training in 1984. He wound up signing with the White Sox that May buy only played 3 games behind Carlton Fisk and Vance Law, and wound up having his contract sold to the Indians in the last 2 weeks of the 1984 season.

On September 27, 1984, the Indians, in front of a stunning home crowd of 3,752, put Quirk in to pinch hit with the scored tied at 3 vs Minnesota and 2 outs in the bottom of the ninth. He hit a walk-off home run to win the game 4-3, which propelled his old team, the Royals, past the Twins into first place with 3 games to go in the regular season.

And that was it for Quirk in Cleveland. That 1 at-bat, leaving his stats for the season with the Indians as 1 for 1 with 1 home run, giving him a batting average of 1.000, a slugging percentage of 4.000, and an OPS of 5.000.

The Royals brought him back to KC in 1985 and he won a World Series ring.




Quirk had a fascinating, long career. He played 18 seasons in the majors debuting at 20. He only played 984 games in those 18 seasons and only played more than 100 games once, playing 109 in 1987 with KC.

But after making the majors at 20 he rarely went down to AAA. Only in '78, '84, '85, and '89, totaling 285 games.

And all of his games were played in the AL. In neither of his WS did he appear in an NL park.

Fascinating career.
agsalaska
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Watching the HR derby I had to check out some baseballreference.

Albert Pujos devastated me and my wife in 2005 when he homered off Lidge in the 2005 NLCS. We were sitting at a park in the Heights with some random people near I10 listening on the radio when suddenly the crowd went silent. Ugh.

We were telling that story to my 10 year old baseball playing son the other day and he said 'how far do you think it went'. Wife answered 'It is still up there"


Pujos has been amazing and had a first ballot career, but the stat that surprised me the most was that dude led the league in runs scored five times, and scored over 115 runs seven times in nine seasons, starting with his second year. He scored 112 as a rookie.

Thats crazy. Gehrig led the league four times. Aaron led three times. Boggs led twice. Mays twice. Biggo twice. Gwynn once. Cabrerra zero. Carew once. Bonds once.

Rickey Henderson also had 5. So did Ty Cobb. So did Alex Rodriguez. So did Stan Musial.

For all the other stats that are out there and that we argue and debate about endlessly, scoring runs is the point. That is an amazing stat.

Ruth led eight times.


Edit to correct. Said Ruth twice. It was Gehrig that led four times
The Porkchop Express
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agsalaska said:

Watching the HR derby I had to check out some baseballreference.

Albert Pujos devastated me and my wife in 2005 when he homered off Lidge in the 2005 NLCS. We were sitting at a park in the Heights with some random people near I10 listening on the radio when suddenly the crowd went silent. Ugh.

We were telling that story to my 10 year old baseball playing son the other day and he said 'how far do you think it went'. Wife answered 'It is still up there"


Pujos has been amazing and had a first ballot career, but the stat that surprised me the most was that dude led the league in runs scored five times, and scored over 115 runs seven times in nine seasons, starting with his second year. He scored 112 as a rookie.

Thats crazy. Ruth led for four. Aaron led three times. Boggs led twice. Mays twice. Biggo twice. Gwynn once. Cabrerra zero. Carew once. Bonds once.

Rickey Henderson also had 5. So did Ty Cobb. So did Alex Rodriguez. So did Stan Musial.

For all the other stats that are out there and that we argue and debate about endlessly, scoring runs is the point. That is an amazing stat.

Ruth led eight times.


Pujols will also be the only HoFer for probably a long while going forward who finishes his career with almost as many walks as strikeouts. He's at 1,361 walks and 1,380 strikeouts. Except for his rookie year, he drew more walks than strikeouts every year from 2002-2011. His walk numbers plummeted with the Angels since they didn't have jack **** around him, though.

His closest modern contemporary, Miguel Cabrera, by comparison, has 1,215 career walks and 2,004 career strikeouts - 7th most all time. Mike Trout, a sure-fire HoFer who has led the league in walks 3 times, has 904 career walks, but 1,312 career strikeouts.

WARNING: I have a deep-seated desire for others to love the Star Wars franchise as much as I do, in exactly the way I do, and get snippy and sensitive and passive-aggressive when they don't.
agsalaska
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Quote:

Pujols will also be the only HoFer for probably a long while going forward
Yea I dont see that happening much in the future. For better or worse.
agsalaska
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Lou Whitaker.

My son said something to me tonight about some older first time all star being a hall of famer, and it made me think of who I thought was a hall of famer. I was his age in 1987.

Lou Whitaker- 1985 All Star game at the Metrodome, he forgot his uniform. He had to buy one from a souvenir shop and pencil his number in the back.

In 1986 He homered in the ALS against Doc Gooden.

I remember when I was a kid seeing the Rangers playing at Tiger stadium and expecting a loss. Him and Allan Trammel. And Jack Morris.

Whitaker had a cannon at 2b. And at the time was one of the most powerful 2b ever. Finished his career with 244 homeruns.

Corporal Punishment
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Yeah I figured Whitaker would be a HOFer, too. Aren't he and Trammell the longest DP combo to ever play together or am I confusing them with someone else from that era? That 1984 team was legendary.
The Porkchop Express
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Corporal Punishment said:

Yeah I figured Whitaker would be a HOFer, too. Aren't he and Trammell the longest DP combo to ever play together or am I confusing them with someone else from that era? That 1984 team was legendary.
I get happy every time I see this thread bumped. It always means people who love baseball history are active.

84 Tigers are the team that started off 35-5.They started the year 9-0, then got to 16-1, then 19-2.


When they hit 35-5, they had an 8-1/2 game lead and it was May 24th. Incredibly the Blue Jays started off the year almost as hot. Through 52 games, Detroit was 39-13 and Toronto was 36-17, just 3-1/2 games back. At that point in the season, Cleveland (18-33) was already 20-1/2 games out of first.

The Tigers went 104-58. The Blue Jays fell off and no other team in the AL won more than 89 games.

Tigers' offense had Lance Parrish at catcher hit 33 HR and drive in 98. Whitaker hit .289 with 90 runs scored. Trammell hit .314 with 85 R, 69 RBI, 14 HR, 19 SB; Their outfield was Larry Herndon (.280), Chet Lemon (.287, 20 HR, 76 RBI) and Kirk Gibson (.282, 27 HR, 91 RBI, 29 SB).

Pitching staff was out of this world: Jack Morris was 19-11, Dan Petry was 18-8, and Milt Wilcox was 17-8. Willie Hernandez was the most unlikely MVP of all time, pitching 80 games with a 1.92 ERA, 112 K, 140.1 innings, and 32 saves. A closer throwing 140 innings! Astro legend Aurelio "Senor Smoke" Lopez threw 137.2 innings in relief at age 35, went 10-1 with a 2.94 ERA and 14 saves.

They swept prime George Brett Kansas City 3-0 in the ALCS, outscoring the Royals 14-5. KC batted .170 as a team for the series. Detroit's pitching team ERA was 1.24 and its WHIP was 0.828.

They beat San Diego 4-1 in the World Series. Aggie legend Mark Thurmond took the L in a close game 1 for San Diego. Trammell hit .450 in the world series with an OPS of 1.300.

And then ... baseball happened.
Tigers fell to third in 1985 at 84-77. Third again in 1986, then 98 wins in 1987 but loss to Minnesota in the ALCS.

In 1988 they went 88-74 and finished second in the East by 1 game behind the Sox. In 1989 their win total dropped by TWENTY NINE and they bottomed out at 59-103. They proceeded to go 20 years (87-06) before they made the playoffs again.



WARNING: I have a deep-seated desire for others to love the Star Wars franchise as much as I do, in exactly the way I do, and get snippy and sensitive and passive-aggressive when they don't.
texasaggie2015
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Albert Pujols has played on the same field as Jesse Orsoco (born in 1957) as well as Michael Harris and Wander Franco (born in 2001).

Think of it this way. He played against a guy who was born when Eisenhower was President, and he also played against two guys who weren't born yet when Dale Earnhardt died.
07ag
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https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bumgama01.shtml

Madbim's bbref page has his rodeo alter ego and results
https://ts.la/eric59704
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