Astros did nothing wrong.

15,068 Views | 221 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by West Point Aggie
TxAgPreacher
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It would be like me having a game night at my house and we were playing cards, and house rules were that everyone had an ipad and could peek at everyone's cards, then when everyone is doing it openly the guy that is losing grabs the rule book and says hey look the guy that's winning is cheating. Then everyone else puts down their ipads and agrees to punish the guy in the lead.
DallasAg 94
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Fumbleruski
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No they definitely cheated. I've been an Astros fan since I was 8 years old and it kills me that we're now "that team". We now have stigma and it will carry for a little while. What makes it worse is that other teams are doing the same thing and have even been caught doing it, but the Astros will be the whipping boy for MLB. The other big market teams will get away with it.
TxAgPreacher
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Every team has ipads in the dugout, and until they remove them everyone will continue to, for all intents and purposes, do the same exact thing the Astros are doing. It's unfair to punish them for this when every team is openly doing the same thing on live TV every game.
94chem
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TxAgPreacher said:

Every team has ipads in the dugout, and until they remove them everyone will continue to, for all intents and purposes, the same exact thing the Astros are doing. It's unfair to punish them for this when every team is openly doing the same thing on live TV every game.


Dude, you sound like Baylor. Stop.
diehard03
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Quote:

What makes it worse is that other teams are doing the same thing and have even been caught doing it, but the Astros will be the whipping boy for MLB. The other big market teams will get away with it.

Why does this make it worse? You cheated. You got caught.
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TxAgPreacher
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I'm not saying the Astros didnt steal signs. I'm saying objectivity many, if not all, teams are doing the same. As long as iPads are in the dugouts all teams are guilty of using electronics to steal signals.
Fumbleruski
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Quote:


Quote:

Quote:
What makes it worse is that other teams are doing the same thing and have even been caught doing it, but the Astros will be the whipping boy for MLB. The other big market teams will get away with it.

Why does this make it worse? You cheated. You got caught.

So you obviously left out the part where I said they cheated. Not hiding from that all. That said, take a step back and have some perspective; you can imagine how that makes it worse from a fan perspective. Teams have been actively doing this exact thing and have even be caught doing it as recently as last year (Boston with apple watches, Yanks with a similar camera set up), but who gets the hammer...the mid-level team. If you can't see the hypocrisy in the league's response (and we'll see how MLB's investigation fully plays out), then I don't know what to tell you.

The Astros got caught and have to take their medicine. Over all, I agree with the punishment that was dealt. At the same time, the league needs to apply similar punishments to the teams that have been doing this and not just find an easy team to use "as an example for the rest of baseball". Selective punishments to enforce unwritten rules won't have any impact on teams that control the sport's market. If baseball is serious about cleaning this up, they should enforce penalties for sign stealing league wide.
wbt5845
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I once was pulled over for speeding by a cop. I asked him "Out of the hundreds of speeding cars cars out there at the same time, why did you get me?"

The cop asked me "Do you fish?"

I said "Yes."

He asked "When you fish, do you catch the all?"

I said "No"

He said "Neither do I."
TxAgPreacher
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Exactly speeding is a minor infraction, and sign stealing is part of the game. The penalty is over the top, and it's a proven fact that most if not all teams are doing it. Take the ipads out of all dugouts or else this whole thing is making the Astros a scapegoat for the league not inforcing its rules. All teams are blatantly and openly using tech to watch the previous pitch. They then try to crack the code, and steal signs. This should have been a nothing burger.
Doug Ross
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TxAgPreacher said:

It would be like me having a game night at my house and we were playing cards, and house rules were that everyone had an ipad and could peek at everyone's cards, then when everyone is doing it openly the guy that is losing grabs the rule book and says hey look the guy that's winning is cheating. Then everyone else puts down their ipads and agrees to punish the guy in the lead.


Sweet card reference. Stros are cheaters. Cya
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BMX Bandit
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100% chance OP is a trolling Yankee fan.
hawk1689
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JABQ04 said:


Need to turn your ring you cock sucker.
So do the rest of them.
ac04
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embarrassing thread
ORAggieFan
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TxAgPreacher said:

I'm not saying the Astros didnt steal signs. I'm saying objectivity many, if not all, teams are doing the same. As long as iPads are in the dugouts all teams are guilty of using electronics to steal signals.
You understand that iPads were not a part of the illegal sign stealing? What exactly does having iPads, which seems to be your only defense, have to do with this?

Why are you not talking about the illegal camera feed that wasn't on the mandated delay or the setup with an illegal monitor the manager broke twice because he knew it was illegal?

The punishment was somewhere between right on and too lenient. IMO, they should have stripped the title and taken int'l signing pool money, but I'm not mad about it. It is the harshest penalty for a team of all time.
Player To Be Named Later
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You started a new thread to copy/paste this ridiculous take?

And you're a preacher?
Player To Be Named Later
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wbt5845 said:

I once was pulled over for speeding by a cop. I asked him "Out of the hundreds of speeding cars cars out there at the same time, why did you get me?"

The cop asked me "Do you fish?"

I said "Yes."

He asked "When you fish, do you catch the all?"

I said "No"

He said "Neither do I."


I gotta remember that one....

Wait, no I don't.... sounds like an automatic trip to IA
Big Shooter
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Fumbleruski said:

No they definitely cheated. I've been an Astros fan since I was 8 years old and it kills me that we're now "that team". We now have stigma and it will carry for a little while. What makes it worse is that other teams are doing the same thing and have even been caught doing it, but the Astros will be the whipping boy for MLB. The other big market teams will get away with it.
That's false because Boston is about to get hit pretty hard as well, with Alex Cora likely going to see a minimum of a five-year suspension with a lifetime ban squarely on the table. We will likely know in a couple of months.
DallasAg 94
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tjack16
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The Astros did cheat. Die hard fan here but they did. Doesn't change my view of the world series in 2017.

But to say they didn't because other teams do it is like SMU or Ole Miss football recruiting saying they did nothing wrong because other schools do it.
94chem
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TxAgPreacher said:

I'm not saying the Astros didnt steal signs. I'm saying objectivity many, if not all, teams are doing the same. As long as iPads are in the dugouts all teams are guilty of using electronics to steal signals.

First, forget the iPad mantra. This has nothing to do with iPads. As DallasAg pointed out, this is about cameras in center field.

Everybody isn't doing it. Here's how I know:

If everyone was doing it, everyone would be paranoid, and every team would be using complex signs with the bases empty. The fact that catchers are using simple signs with the bases empty provides a HUGE argument against the "everybody does it" crowd.

If you don't understand what I just said, you should probably leave this discussion.
agsalaska
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I keep seeing this claim by fellow Astros fans that 'everyone is doing it.' Other than the Red Sox, who are next, who else has been caught doing it?
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
twilly
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If you are claiming that "everyone else is doing it", and your team got caught, that means everyone else is doing it better than you.
TexasRebel
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wbt5845 said:

I once was pulled over for speeding by a cop. I asked him "Out of the hundreds of speeding cars cars out there at the same time, why did you get me?"

The cop asked me "Do you fish?"

I said "Yes."

He asked "When you fish, do you catch the all?"

I said "No"

He said "Neither do I."


Last time I went fishing I didn't choose which fish to catch. Did something change?
TexasRebel
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I'm pretty sure the camera was the broadcast camera. Not something special.

Now, maybe they had an exclusive pre-broadcast feed. That's not clear.

There's nothing in the rules against studying film.
Player To Be Named Later
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It SHOULD amaze me that people are justifying this. But in today's day and age, it doesn't.
TxAgPreacher
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I'm sure you hate the Astros and so watching them get hit brings you joy, but if your team was being unfairly punished you'd feel the same way. I would agree with the punishments if every team wasn't doing the same thing with ipads. You can say forget the ipad thing, but that's silly. Everyone uses them to try to use "gamesmanship ". To say otherwise is naive. This is just as stupid as deflate gate.
diehard03
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So you obviously left out the part where I said they cheated. Not hiding from that all. That said, take a step back and have some perspective; you can imagine how that makes it worse from a fan perspective. Teams have been actively doing this exact thing and have even be caught doing it as recently as last year (Boston with apple watches, Yanks with a similar camera set up), but who gets the hammer...the mid-level team. If you can't see the hypocrisy in the league's response (and we'll see how MLB's investigation fully plays out), then I don't know what to tell you.

The Astros got caught and have to take their medicine. Over all, I agree with the punishment that was dealt. At the same time, the league needs to apply similar punishments to the teams that have been doing this and not just find an easy team to use "as an example for the rest of baseball". Selective punishments to enforce unwritten rules won't have any impact on teams that control the sport's market. If baseball is serious about cleaning this up, they should enforce penalties for sign stealing league wide.

Here's some perspective: If you are demanding that everyone who might be doing the same or similar be punished like you did, then you really don't care that you cheated. You're just mad you got caught.

The reason the Astros are getting it worse than everyone else is that the Commissioner told everyone to stop, and the Astros didn't.
Texaggie7nine
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If everyone was doing it, everyone would be paranoid, and every team would be using complex signs with the bases empty. The fact that catchers are using simple signs with the bases empty provides a HUGE argument against the "everybody does it" crowd.
I think that is the only thing that, so far, the Astros can be singled out on. The trash can alert when bases are empty.

Other than that, judging from the reaction by active and former MLB players, the act of using live feeds and technology to crack the sign code to let the players that get on base know seems to be pretty wide spread. Which makes sense. Players come and go from teams all the time, there is no way that 1 or 2 teams using such a blatant exploit of technology to figure out signs would stay secret or be followed by other teams as the former players of those teams taught their new teams how to do it.

Obviously Beltran and Cora came from other teams before getting to the Astros and it seems pretty unlikely that they just came up with the idea in 2017. Especially when their former teams were already punished for using technology to relay sign stealing info like smart watches.

So really, the question becomes, did the trash can banging REALLY help them that much? Basically what happened was the Astros players caused the implosion of their team for an "advantage" that really didn't pay off that much and they were quoted as doing away with it because it was not found to be more of a distraction than a help. They mostly played better away, and their WS championship would still have happened if all you did was take away trash can banging. The rest was methods used by other teams.
7nine
diehard03
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The Astros did cheat. Die hard fan here but they did. Doesn't change my view of the world series in 2017.

This is silly.

You don't get credit for admitting they cheated as a fan if you accept the reward reaped from that cheating. That's a low character move.

You claim the moral ground only up until it costs you something.
dvldog
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What if there's nobody on 2nd to view and relay the decoded sign to the batter?

This isn't about using iPads to figure out the signs (which everybody has access to as stated above). This is about knowing real-time if the upcoming pitch is a fastball or off-speed pitch when there isn't a man on 2nd to see the catcher's sign.
diehard03
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So really, the question becomes, did the trash can banging REALLY help them that much? Basically what happened was the Astros players caused the implosion of their team for an "advantage" that really didn't pay off that much and they were quoted as doing away with it because it was not found to be more of a distraction than a help. They mostly played better away, and their WS championship would still have happened if all you did was take away trash can banging. The rest was methods used by other teams.

You can't say that. You have a whole knock-on effect to deal with: Pitcher who gets shelled at Houston eventually has Houston as their house and has his bad performance in his mind. He plays badly. Maybe the season record is swung several games. They save some pitching arms not having to throw them in games the cheated help them.

The report also said that they used it in the post season. Being that you won in Game 7 of the WS, maybe you don't even get to Game 7 without it.
Texaggie7nine
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diehard03 said:

Quote:

So really, the question becomes, did the trash can banging REALLY help them that much? Basically what happened was the Astros players caused the implosion of their team for an "advantage" that really didn't pay off that much and they were quoted as doing away with it because it was not found to be more of a distraction than a help. They mostly played better away, and their WS championship would still have happened if all you did was take away trash can banging. The rest was methods used by other teams.

You can't say that. You have a whole knock-on effect to deal with: Pitcher who gets shelled at Houston eventually has Houston as their house and has his bad performance in his mind. He plays badly. Maybe the season record is swung several games. They save some pitching arms not having to throw them in games the cheated help them.

The report also said that they used it in the post season. Being that you won in Game 7 of the WS, maybe you don't even get to Game 7 without it.
Said that the sign stealing using technology went into the post season. The very thing that other teams are doing. The very thing that Brian McCann (former Yankee) said in a radio interview that he knew that the Yankees did and why he walked up almost all of his signs to the pitcher against the Yankees in the ALDS in 2017.

The report said nothing of the trash can banging being specifically used in the post season.
7nine
TxAgPreacher
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tjholley16 said:

The Astros did cheat. Die hard fan here but they did. Doesn't change my view of the world series in 2017.

But to say they didn't because other teams do it is like SMU or Ole Miss football recruiting saying they did nothing wrong because other schools do it.


Obviously I agree. I'll admit it was clickbait to get attention so I could get acknowledged, get it off my chest, and of course get mercilessly mocked

If you can't vent on Texags where can you?
 
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