The score disparity in games over the past week and a half has been strange. Win big. Lose big. Only one game in the past 7 decided by less than 5 runs, and I think it was a 4 run game

Calhoun is our hottest hitter and getting day off today after only four games? Not sure I agree with that move.

Smyly gives up 2 runs in 3 innings so far and it makes his season ERA go down.

Lead off runners on base the last two innings and nothing to show.

LeClerc and Chavez combine for four scoreless innings in relief. Both looked good today (and also for the past week or so).

KT 90 said:

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Well, he is well enough today to hit a pinch hit HR.

Well....

KT 90 said:

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LeClerc and Chavez combine for four scoreless innings in relief. Both looked good today (and also for the past week or so).

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Good to see our closer starting a game for 11 pitches and pitching two scoreless innings in a setup role.

Oh wait I can't wrap my head around that...

PDEMDHC said:

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KT 90 said:

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LeClerc and Chavez combine for four scoreless innings in relief. Both looked good today (and also for the past week or so).

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Good to see our closer starting a game for 11 pitches and pitching two scoreless innings in a setup role.

Oh wait I can't wrap my head around that...

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Well, he stunk it up at closer so not all bad to let him work through his issues. I would imagine he is back at closer pretty soon. We also need Kelley back from the IL.

I hear Robbie Ross is a free agent, can't be any worse than what's in our bullpen right now...

List the video feed from FoxSW, but Calhoun just tues it up with a double

*lost

So I guess it was a single by Calhoun. ** video back

Bases loaded, no outs

Same here, lost video but it's back. Bases loaded with Nomar at the plate.

Sac fly for the win.

TXAggie2011 said:

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Poking holes in the rest of the roster to fend off Odor criticism is an odd hill to plant your flag upon

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Yes... 'cause that's what I did.

What I didn't do, was poke holes in the "Forsythe and Santana"


https://texags.com/forums/53/topics/3028162/replies/54263183

Quote:

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Forsythe and Santana have versatility. Versatility should be seen as a valuable commodity in today's game. Odor only plays one position. Forsythe can play pretty much every position in the infield. Santana is a switch hitter who has played every position except pitcher / catcher.

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I've repeatedly said Forsythe and Santana were breat pickups. I commented about Santana from Day1... immediately after he PH his first AB, when they had him on the post-game. I was enamored with his post-game interview.

I've also commented that Forsythe was a "Woody guy," and part of him being on the roster was that Woody liked him. That is good enough for me.

My comments about them are a response to things grape says like, "Forsythe and Santana are better because they don't make bone headed plays like Odor."

So, to dig deeper into them as a comparison is quite reasonable.

You also won't hear me root against either of them. This last inning with Odor, Santana and Calhoun working to tie up the game is actually something I really like. I would LOVE for them to all be successful.

"HELLO WIN COLUMN!"

DallasAg 94 said:

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TXAggie2011 said:

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Poking holes in the rest of the roster to fend off Odor criticism is an odd hill to plant your flag upon

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Yes... 'cause that's what I did.

What I didn't do, was poke holes in the "Forsythe and Santana"


https://texags.com/forums/53/topics/3028162/replies/54263183

Quote:

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Forsythe and Santana have versatility. Versatility should be seen as a valuable commodity in today's game. Odor only plays one position. Forsythe can play pretty much every position in the infield. Santana is a switch hitter who has played every position except pitcher / catcher.

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I've repeatedly said Forsythe and Santana were breat pickups. I commented about Santana from Day1... immediately after he PH his first AB, when they had him on the post-game. I was enamored with his post-game interview.

I've also commented that Forsythe was a "Woody guy," and part of him being on the roster was that Woody liked him. That is good enough for me.

My comments about them are a response to things grape says like, "Forsythe and Santana are better because they don't make bone headed plays like Odor."

So, to dig deeper into them as a comparison is quite reasonable.

You also won't hear me root against either of them. This last inning with Odor, Santana and Calhoun working to tie up the game is actually something I really like. I would LOVE for them to all be successful.

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They're still playing circles around odor tho. Not even close when you look at the stats objectively.

Grapesoda2525 said:

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They're still playing circles around odor tho. Not even close when you look at the stats objectively.

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I need to be careful, because if I mention Santana has 4 Es in 121 chance for 23 GP (0.967 FP) and Odor has only 3 E in 133 TC in 30 G (0.977 FP), TXAggie2011 might get upset that I'm poking holes at players.

Santana has 11 G @ 2B, 7 @ 1B, 3 @ CF and 2 @SS.
Odor has all 30G @ 2B

TXAggie2011 isn't the only one on this board who notices that you go way out of your way to vouch for a player who - more often than not - is a major liability.

Take all those stats you like to inundate us with and put them into a ratio with the salary of the respective players. I'll take value and clear-as-day production over piles of meaningless metrics.

Doorbell said:

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TXAggie2011 is the only one on this board who notices that you go way out of your way to vouch for a player who - more often than not - is a major liability.

Take all those stats you like to inundate is with and put them into a ratio with the salary of the respective players. I'll take value and clear as day production over piles of meaningless metrics.

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We just have to assume that he watches Ranger games through odor colored glasses. He probably thinks odor is the main catalyst for our victory today because he got a single in the 10th inning, then came around to score. The reality is that Odor wouldn't even have come up to bat if it wasn't for Santana's home run in the 8th inning. Odor was 1-4 with a single, Santana was 1-1 with a home run and a walk, forsythe was 1 for 4 with single and a walk. Odor consistently gets outplayed by both of the other 2 when he's out there.

The obsession with defending odor is pretty weird and seems to go against most of the regular posters on this thread who are down on his performance. If you take Odor out of the equation tho, I like dallasAg and think he's a good poster.

Doorbell said:

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TXAggie2011 isn't the only one on this board who notices that you go way out of your way to vouch for a player who - more often than not - is a major liability.

Take all those stats you like to inundate us with and put them into a ratio with the salary of the respective players. I'll take value and clear-as-day production over piles of meaningless metrics.

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What a weird statement about baseball.

Grape says Odor is the only player that makes boneheaded mistakes for the Rangers, and I indicate Santana has more Es (4 v 3) in less games (23 v 30) and at positions that are not know for being skilled positions (1B & OF vs 2B) and like Grape... you seem to prefer Santana over Odor.

Grape makes an unsubstantiated claim... and because I call him out on it and provide actual facts... I'm going out of my way to defend a player?

The very essence of baseball is that someone makes a claim about a player and each person brings information about that player. Grape, like you offer nothing more hating Odor on an irrationally personal level because he unbuttons his top button and makes $7.8M this year (5th on Rangers roster). Last year he made $3.3M. Chump change. Substantially less than Lance Lynn ($9.3M)... and just a tad more than Drew Smyly ($7.0M)

Odor is under-performing. By the end of the season... Odor will have more GPs and produced more Runs, RBIs, and HRs than both Santana and Forsythe.

I get it... just more meaningless facts. But, I'll take more meaningful statistics over the smell test everyday.

I've never said that I hate Odor. So, you can knock off the defensive suggestions. I do, as a matter of fact - despite his continued, undeserving presence in the lineup.

I won't continue to go in circles with you. I can't see things as you do - and I'm very thankful that I don't. For my part, I put your argument metaphorically into another example. Employee A is paid extremely well and among the best in his profession. Regularly, employee A goes through long periods where his performance is drastically sub-par. However, I stick with employee A due to the fact that, at the end of the year, his overall results will indicate that he was "acceptable".

It's not in my nature to see things that way. My opinion is that employee A should be put in a position to figure out his recurring issues in a place that doesn't hinder the good of the collective. It has nothing to do with personal like/dislike of him. In fact, allowing him to stay in his position would more likely suggest that I don't value the efforts of those around him.

Like you, I'd like for all of the team to be successful. I'm just not going to grasp at partiality for anyone who doesn't perform. I don't care what their name is, what position they play, or if they button the top button of their shirt, I just expect them to do their part.

DallasAg 94 said:

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Doorbell said:

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TXAggie2011 isn't the only one on this board who notices that you go way out of your way to vouch for a player who - more often than not - is a major liability.

Take all those stats you like to inundate us with and put them into a ratio with the salary of the respective players. I'll take value and clear-as-day production over piles of meaningless metrics.

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Odor is under-performing. By the end of the season... Odor will have more GPs and produced more Runs, RBIs, and HRs than both Santana and Forsythe.

I get it... just more meaningless facts. But, I'll take more meaningful statistics over the smell test everyday.

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The funny thing is you might actually be right about this, but not in the way you'd expect or hope. You know as well as I do that forsythe and Santana might be traded to contenders who would use them as bench pieces. Forsythe is old and it would make sense, but I think Santana should be kept because the rangers would have cheap control over him for a few more years.

Forsythe and Santana could end up in situations where they only play once every 5th day for teams trying to win a division. Meanwhile, odor will be here, getting the "treatment", being in the lineup every single day and if he somehow manages to get several multi hit games in a row, he might talk woody into giving him his 2nd spot in the order back for even more AB's.

I think he's a terrible #2 hitter tho. You're #2 hitter should be good at making contact and getting on base ( walks) , he really doesn't do either of those things. It just shows you how terrible of a manager Banny was for actually putting him there.

When I watch games, I follow certain players from the field to the dugout and how they interact with teammates. Odor seems to be a very good teammate who has a special bond with each and every one of them. I hope he turns it around as he really seems like a very good guy .

You guys want to talk about Mazara for a bit?

In my opinion, everyone should be treated equally. So, yes, it it appropriate to evaluate Mazara, as well.

That said, while Nomar has struggled so far, his average this year (.243) is pretty much identical to Odor's career average (.244). So, it's not as nearly bad in my opinion.

I'm hopeful the new staff will be able to help Mazara take a couple of steps forward. For a guy that made it to the bigs at 21, it's kind of amazing how identical his first 3 season were, and this one is on the same path.

Danny Vermin said:

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When I watch games, I follow certain players from the field to the dugout and how they interact with teammates. Odor seems to be a very good teammate who has a special bond with each and every one of them. I hope he turns it around as he really seems like a very good guy .

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I'll agree with this. Calhoun is potentially a replacement for Odor since he is a LH bat that can play 2nd. After Calhoun's first hr in KC, Odor was the second one to greet him in the dougout and gave him a big smile and hug. After Calhoun's 2nd HR in KC he was right there to greet him again with a bigger smile and hug.

Doorbell said:

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In my opinion, everyone should be treated equally. So, yes, it it appropriate to evaluate Mazara, as well.

That said, while Nomar has struggled so far, his average this year (.243) is pretty much identical to Odor's career average (.244). So, it's not as nearly bad in my opinion.

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It's hard to compare Nomar with Odor, given that the expectations for those positions aren't going to be the same. Better to compare Nomar vs other RF and Odor vs other 2B around the league. But if we are going to compare them, I think you could make a case for either being the "better" of the two.

• Odor has 3 seasons of OPS+ that are higher than, or equal to, Mazara's best season.
• Odor, to his credit, has improved his defensive skillset significantly. To the point that he was a legitimate GG candidate last year. Mazara has a career dWAR of -3.4.
• Mazara is more consistent at the plate than Odor, but Odor has a higher ceiling, at least in the power department from what we've seen. Mazara has a significantly higher floor though.

Neither player has sold me on them being major pieces of the lineup going forward, but I also am not ready to give up on them either. I do think we need more power coming from a corner outfielder though, which is a problem because Mazara just doesn't seem to be anything more than a 20-25 HR guy.

I don't disagree with any of that.

toucan82 said:

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You guys want to talk about Mazara for a bit?

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I'd love to talk about Mazara... and it doesn't have to include Odor.. Thoughts?